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Don't celebrate to early, first I bet Toyoda is exagerting how bad the situation is because it makes any recovery seem more miraculous. Also we have seen in the past how single minded the Japanese can be when they have a goal to reach. They will not sit and flounder and make the same mistakes they have. Now that being said I would love to see there market share in this country go down about 50 % over the next ten years. But I won't count my chickens before they are hatched.

Yes because everything said in a marketing campaign is 100% honest and truthful and no company tries to give a product an image they want people to perceive there product as. No one constructs advertising to convince people that they need their product for those reasons and that the product does these things better than any one elses. Advertising is just the pure straight forward facts put out there for everyone to make their own decission on. Yeah thats reality.

Just to be accurate the 4 runner and the pathfinder 4 doors were out before the explorer. I remeber reading an article on the new explorer before it came out and the author was wondering if the explorer could compete being late to the segnent, I guess that question was answered. Would the segment have exploded had Ford not introduced the explorer, probably, but just because the segment is not big does not mean the right vehicle can't make the segment grow.

I think using the 3.5 Ecoboost and six speed is a good idea but I think some have pointed out that all the systems in the cv are not shared with other Ford cars making them more expensive. The other idea I read here that I think is brilliant is to use the 09 Taurus or 500 sheet metal on the updated platform under a different name. I wonder if any one at Ford thought of this and if there is any reason it could not be done with a minimal investment. Is the tooling for that sheet metal destroyed yet?

I look at it this way, how did the dealers report the sales. Do they say they sold x number of cars and then break it down into sub-categories as far 2 and 4wd and engine size. If so then when all of these numbers from the dealers were tallied it would seem to be more work to break the numbers down the way they did. So why would that be done? However if the dealers reported them seperately then you can see the list ending up the way it did. But what possible reason would the sales be reported that way. The Camry is the best selling car but they don't report the 4 and 6 cyl seperately do they. It just looks like someone wanted the list to look a certain way, put a spin on it if you will. Noone I think will argue that spin is a big part of politics.

This is America and I support everybodies right to buy what they want, freedom is what makes this country great. So if anybody wants to buy a foreign car I support that right which many have fought and died for. But those people should not justify there purchase of a foreign car with cries of it is made here or sold here and thus creating jobs. Those companies can try to sell the image of being an American car company all they want but bottom line is they are not, they are foreign and the foreign company make a profit from those sale taking money out of this country. So buy what you want it's your right and everyone should support it, but don't tryt to have your cake and eat it too.

Thanks for the info. I can see what you are saying, and if no one purposely left the data the way you say it might have been tabulated, it doesn't take a brain sugeon to look down the list and see the same models listed as different cofigurations. That being said I find it a little hard to believe that no one noticed this and at least asked if the models should be combined. Mabee there wasn't a vast government conspiricy b ut I would think someone made the decission to leave the list the way it was knowing that it would at least be misleading if not flat out wrong.

That article gets to the heart of the argument, no mention of escape at all. People read that and see besides focus the rest of the top ten cars are foreign. But we all know that is not true, I think it erodes some of the confidence ford has built up and is misleading to the general public. Ironically you would think the government would want to report the list with more american cars on the list at the top to more justify the bailout.

I see where you are coming from but the escape is the escape. Yes there is a difference in the fuel economy between a 4 cyl 2wd and a 6 cyl 4wd but the are still escapes and the 6 cyl 4wd still gets good enough milage to qualify for the program. They don't list the gas milage for each model on the list, so what reason is there to seprate out the models of certain vehicles because they get different milage when they are all eligible. The list seperated out is misleading to the average person, I don't think you could say otherwise.

If you really think about it what possible reason could there be for seperating models out than to get trucks out of the top spots. They are the only ones effected. A car model is a car model. And if you don't think a group would hand pick evidence to support their versionof things just look around you everyone does it. The politicians both dem and rep are the most guilty.

I work in government locally and see these thing first hand, and have to deal with the state and see the stupidity there. Groundless claims, open your eyes to what goes on for political gain that we can see just from therre actions. both sides. I do understand whats going on needless destructionof good cars. As far as price I don't know but how much can the dealer be making off the parts. No engine or trans and the 4500 they are reimbursed for out of our pocket. why do you have to draw the line somewhere and what is the problem with seriously bad autos being traded in. I thought that was the point to get the worst cars off the road. And why can't emmissions and safety be part of determining that. I never said I was morally opposed to the program, I just think that there are ways it can be improved and run better.

The problem in comparing is that there really are no rwd cars that have gas milage as a priority, they usually are performance type models. And as far as the '10 mustang the 4.0 is an ancient engine what will the same car get with the 3.5

1. more than 1 2. the justification would still be there but since they said nothing about emissins it doesn't matter, more government crap that we should care only about what they tell us. The cars are being destroyed so what off the car can be sold, I don't know but can it approach the market value of the car. The cars could be sold for a greatly reduced price that would mirror what the dealer cluld get out of the car in parts.

Depends on what you call bottom of the barrel. Yes 90's sedans get better gas milage, and where you are those are probably the oldest you see in general. By me, northern nj you barely even see anything before 2000. But in many poorer parts of the country you can bet there are a lot of 80's and even some 70's cars still on the road. And even if those get about the same milage as mid- 90's explorers and the like I bet the emissions are no where near as good. And even besides all those good environmental things don't you think someone driving a 77 ltd that is a pos and can't afford anything better would love to get a 98 explorer for free or at least a very low cost. Much better than scrapping prefectly good cars.

I'm not saying c4c should not be done especially if it is doing good for ford. But 10 years old is not that old I have a forty year old car that runs great. To destroy these cars when there are older worse cars on the road owned by poor people who can not buy a new car and take advantage of the c4c program when they could be given to yhem for free and get even worse cars off the road is typical political stupidity. If you don't think politics enters into these decisions and that they can't think past the end of there nose you need to get you head out of your a**. I don't care how many cars are on the road it is a complete waste to destroy good cars to say ooh lok what we are doing for you. The cars being sold on used car lots and by private owners have nothing to do with my point, its the fact that good cars are being destroyd when there are worse one out there owned by people who can not afford to ber helped by the morons in washington.

The models are counted seperately for political reasons, there is no doubt in my mind. I work in municipal government and even at that level the political bs is staggering to me, you would not believe what goes on for political reasons. I can only guess what goes on at the federal level. If you think for one second that the gov wants suv's and trucks on the list and not small cars I have a bridge i would like to sell you. On another note the fact that the c4c cars are destroyed is moronic, typical government stupidity. There are good cars being destroyed when there are poor people out there with far far worse cars who can not afford a new car who would benefit from these cars, then you could destroy those older cars with even worse milage and worse emissions. why didn't any of the morons in washington think of that. Simple it's all about selling the people on LOOK AT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR YOU as long as the public buys that they could care less if it is true or not. And believe me THAT is true.

Ford will be bringing the European Transit Connect to the States in 2010. They are talking about adding a package called Family One. It consists of things for kids and parents like built in hand sanitizers and walkie talkies. It also has drawing boards on the side panels in the back, a projector on the projected on the roof, scooters on the door and back packs in the seat. It also has a place under the cargo space for a stroller. I think they should make this a package for most Ford Lincoln and Mercury models except the F and E series models and small cars like the Mustang and the Fiesta.

The stick shift might be fading into the sunset but sorry I do not see how the powershift any more than the manumatics hold a candle to driving a real stick. I guess it is better than an auto but not by much for the manumatic. I obviously have never driven the powershift, but I doubt it will be the same as a stick. My next car will be a Mustang and I assume you will be able to get that in a stick for a while yet. :happy feet:

I do not post much but needed to give my .02 cents on this subject. As Ford goes so does Mercury, in other words if you sell enough Fords the Mercury's will follow. If you sell enough Fords there wiill always be people that want something different, so gove them an upper level Ford with unique trim, interiors and options and as long as there is enough Fords out there enough people will go to mercury just to be different. Lincoln however needs different bodies and unique engine sizes. So concentrating on Ford and Lincoln is the right strategy, get Fords sales way up and then make the nicer Mercury"s and they will sell. Yes I do own a Mercury - 1969 Marquis Convertible with a 429!