JETSOLVER

Brief reminder, the Japanese manu's were SLAMMED in the press just a few years ago for not having a design language that translated into a national identity. And yet they sold HUNDREDS of thousands of those things and now, frankly, shift the market response of the domestics. so, one conclusion is that staid and true value is a selling point. Another might be that value is in the eye of the beholder, and with 6+bill on the planet, finding a market identity is as valuable as finding a niche. Loyalty, that's a whole larger think.

I find this latest craze to the tiney and tinny very unlikely long term, especially as the numbers in North America are approaching 3 cars/trucks per family. I just can't imagine people making the decision to sell two of those overnight, and give up our traditional driving habits entirely. Perhaps some thinking about running to the Pourtugeuse bakery for a loaf of twist on Sat. aft. in the 1/2 ton 1500 or F- series is in the offing, and that's very good, but as I drive around town and see all the boats and travel trailers, I just can't see N.A. becoming uptown Newcastle in the next two years. The absolute downside I see in the next year is that people will tend to learn how to hate driving, and all that that politicaly entails. The greatest harm may do the greatest good long term, but some smart cookie is going to find a way to remind people that the personal freedom part of driving is why it is such a huge part of our culture and heritage. Top down Stang convertible after a tiring week? Seems like a good idea to me.

Hmm badge snobbery is a big thing in the lux end, but I'll suggest that a lot of people are changing buying habits now to a more value concious think. Never underestimate the power of repeat buyers, as Ford fans we know the return rate for Stangs is pretty consistent, and I have asked H customers and sales people, they are as loyal as anyone in the market, with the exception of the big enemy, Toyo, where that loyalty is, well, blind. The low sales goals, high content, and darn good quality in the rest of the line tells me that they will probably meet, and possibly exceed their numbers. And for those who scoff, H group has made inroads into most traditional Detroit markets in a very short time, and they don't seem to be giving back those numbers. The current gas thing is an investment driven bubble, and the record shows that for every oil shock we have ever had, North American buyers ALWAYS return to our prior habits. I can even forsee a situation in the next year where a bunch of flavour of the week types who follow the Yahoo news, run in, trade the three y/o Explorer for a tiny llittle x brand and decide by the fall that "this thing sucks" and trade back up to something more in line with what they have owned for a couple of decades. A change is coming, but the record makes one want to hedge their bets as far as mid term buying trends.

Definitely not your Ex-wives minivan. And the dealers must be chortling over the markup on tinting all that glass, I think I might pick up some 3M stock. Simple, big, people mover. The Fairlane lives!

Thought I recognized one of those pics...

Wizard, is there any inherent limitation on power levels as designed? Such as the size of the case and weight of rotating componants? And are they waiting to see the warranty issues if any before a wider rollout? I would love to play with one of these, and would probably buy another car just to see what kind of fun a driver might be able to have. And I am on record hoping for a phoenix like rebirth of SVT, just to make that car.

Forget that no immediate profit to the shareholders, as tightly as they are grouped, is in the off)al)ng, is there a realistic excuse for taking this path? YES Let them eat dirt if they so choose, the planet is a small place now, and I have to be in Spain in four days. How do I offset that? By not driving my toy for a month? This SUCKS!!! I demand that the company take my dividend and make me buy a PHEV. ( I have a fund manager, so I don't even know if this is a held stock, even though I believe NOW that the long term is shiney) Damm, it even sounds screwy to me tonight, but we need the smart answer... Opec be thrust into its mothers sister, the truth is that we depend on this stuff. I want a choice. Since I am demanding stuff I can't have, I would be very much appreciative of the land that gave us "a thousand points of light" could show up in Nov. with at least an 80% turnout to make me as big an idiot as I sometimes feel...

Ain't worth the effort man, just assume we feed it coins....

Well, assuming this is the end of a long and winding road; Yet Again from passion Cool how the Wizard picks his spots...

Can't credit the author, but based on recent trips to this board; "A little boy goes to his dad and asks, "what is politics?" Dad says, 'well son, let me try to explain it this way: I am the head of the family, so call me the president. Your Mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government. We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you the people. The nanny, we will consider her the working class. And your baby brother, we will consider him the future. Now think about that and see if that makes sense..' So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what dad has said. Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him. He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper. So the little boy goes to his parents room and finds his mother asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding that the door is locked, he peeks through the key hole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed. The next morning, the little boy says to his father, 'Dad, i think i understand politics now.' The father says, "good son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about." The little boy replies, "The president is screwing the working class while the government is sound asleep. The people are being ignored and the future is in deep shit!""

AP on why hoarding gas is...you know :rip:

Just noting that for the next time I get loaded on Single malt and visit the board. :tequila:

I have wished for a while now that someone would do a proper job of a heads up display that would integrate with basic nav functions like just arrows and such. The vette one of a few years ago was a good product, but washed out. Having been in a couple Hornets, once you see the possibilities, it seems like a no brainer. I figure it would be a nice profitable option too, once spread over a bunch of product. I happen to know that at least one other premium manufacturer is moving ahead with this.

Most well rounded review yet I suspect. Note to Ford marketing, NO MORE DARK INTERIORS for press cars!! The car looks so much bigger and better in the light interior its amazing. The dark interior in pics at least looks kind of generic. And if there is a need to name the trim with a name, make sure its a name, not a letter acronym. You have even confused the faithful with your three letter business, the buyers of this car are liable to freak if they don't have a catchy name to throw at the family at the next wedding (where it just might be the car at the front of the parade?!). They ruined Zephyr, so I'm not sure how to go about this, but with all the rest going alphanumeric and Ford following, I wonder if something along the lines of Audi's naming the trim packages? A little free snobbery goes along way in this class of car. (he he that's why I just say V when anyone asks whats next ) Ghia perhaps? Idea's?

with you on all counts. I was thinking about this and the Focus debate the other day, and its an old truism that a polarizing design is usually a good way to gain loyal buyers for a new car. Look at the Aztec fans. The single ugliest car ever built, and yet those that own one are so die hard its scary. As to this, good on Ford to launch the car as an addendum to a lifestyle, not a creator of one. The big boxy look is not its strongest suit, but the interior size and economy are. A hybrid will kill sales of a lot of the competitors if they can get it done, but I am pretty sure this thing will sell in good healthy numbers even without. Good job Ford, use the momentum!! And please don't pander to the women, they are so much more sophisticated these days about motor shopping. I figure that this might finally be the product that makes the female lead buyer in the family the norm, not the niche.

Wow. Just Wow. For the intelligent in the audience, the reports actually conclude that PHEV market penetration will IMPROVE the critical infrastructure deficit in terms of the national power grid. Please take a few minutes out of your busy lives and get the facts. Its so much more fun to educate yourselves than to live life with your head up your ass. Not rocket science? Like dams, right? "The American Society of Civil Engineers has estimated that $1.7 trillion is required merely to stabilize the condition of core infrastructure. The nation has 82,642 dams recorded in the National Dam Inventory, serving purposes of flood control, navigation, hydroelectric power, irrigation, recreation, water supply, wildlife habitation, fire control, and other uses. The average age of these dams is 49 years, with tens of thousands of dams over 60 years old. Nearly 30% of dams are classified as hazardous—either high hazard (11,881) or significant hazard (13,549). The remainder, 57,194, are designated low hazard. The degree of hazard refers to the danger, especially threat of loss of life, to what is downstream. (A high-hazard dam can be one in decent condition, but at a site where there are many people residing downstream). Of the 30,000 dams considered to be in some category of hazard, 3,000 are considered as actually unsafe. The "Report Card" of the American Society of Civil Engineers gives dam safety overall a "D," partially because of the lack of funding available to deal with these unsafe structures. In 2002, and estimate of $10 billion was given by the Association of Dam Safety Officials for what it would have taken then to rehabilitate the most critical high-hazard dams."

You actually took the time to read that did you? Of course not, because that's the easy way to remain confident in misinformation. Fact is, they took the lack of action on resolving California's power issues into account. They also based it on turning the ENTIRE national fleet(100% market penetration of PHEV's). RTFR !!! or remain ignorant. Your choice of course. It is not a fact that this technology will make it worse, and I AM NOT THE ONE SAYING IT!!! This is why things are the way they are, because ignorance is bliss, right? Carry on, perhaps you deserve it.

Either version gots to be better than the ones on the mid 80's T-birds. I never came across one that worked after one winter. Perhaps that's because they put the damm thing on the FLAT and sold em in Canada. :do what:

I just sent an Email to a reporter(?) in our national newspaper who in the middle of her "review" of the Lambo LP640-4, drops this little gem, "One lap turns to four. I push it harder, taking a turn too quickly, my purse spills over; its contents scatter on the floor. I reach for it — in a split second, I fall behind. A voice over the walkie-talkie calls out: "White car. Keep up!" I ditch the bag and hit the throttle hard, overtaking the other cars to assume my new position behind Sanna." and finishes with this, "No mishaps — just a lost tube of lipstick. It could be worse; a Mexican journalist blew a tire." So nope, journalism is a dead trade in the blogoverse. And I gave up on Motor ad Trend in the 90's.

And yes, it is very personal to me, I do tend to get fussed about it, but man, I really wanted the damm car, and they went WAY WAY out of their way to make it as shitty an experience as this car guy has ever, and frankly will ever have. I have at least a half dozen people a month ask me about their next purchase, and I enjoy helping them, as I get value from that to. So, lets call this one at least; Peace and :beerchug:

You just don't get it. They have three on the lot, one of which is last years car. So, one assumes that they either A. want very much to pay for the overhead for them, or B. would prefer to sell to someone who was not a past customer they threw over. And as for the GT, I actually investigated one on a local showroom floor that was at list or better, based on a tip from a sales guy who left the first dealer for his own reasons. At that time, I was sweating buying a Porsche, so I was in no position to work a deal. Either way, neither the dealer nor Ford got my $. How is that acceptable to a Ford dealer? Or Ford? And as for gas, did your dealership make more on a Navi last spring, or the twelve Foci you moved last week? Or was it a wash? I hope it is considered a good thing, because twelve possible repeats beats the hell out of one in my book.

Shaker :happy feet:

Here it is hard and simple. Even though that current number is quite reasonable for the product, BECAUSE I had to deal with the bullshit from multiple dealers over almost a year, and BECAUSE I went and spent almost the entire markup on the MSRP( all up before tax was $69, 467) of another manufacturer, and the fact that I now intend to replace that lost sale to FoMoCo with yet another new toy, I fully intend to NOT purchase the car that is now, but was not then reasonable. And frankly, unless there is a hell of a product in my catagory, that tiny niche of enthusiast hard core, I don't think Ford is getting the $ this time either. Which is why I so very much want them to get their shit together, as I would still, even after all that, buy Blue. Its what I want. But under no circumstance would I buy a cup of coffee from one of those three dealers who put me through all that. Even though just last month, a sales twit from one of those same dealers found my name on a three year old list and called me AT HOME to ask me to come in and talk turkey. Best of all, the F er still won't offer list, he just asked for 2k over sticker!!!! If that is what passes for acceptable in your corner, I gotta tell you, there are other manufactures dealer arms who didn't put me through all that. 'Kay?

I know, but they are his own native casting, and the cyl heads are unique. At this point, it is like saying all V8 engines are based on the flathead V8. Believe me, I would love for Ford (and Volvo) to have a finger in this pie, but they don't. Would you like a quick tour of the factory? And if you are familiar with the mod series, see if you can pick out the differences in his block from the original teksid Mod. which is pretty much considered the best of the bunch. EVO and Koenigsegg

Hmm, so if we wait for them to become the solution, we don't have to put "a lot of R&D" into them, and those further advancements come from a tiny or non existent market? Last I checked, the only way to justify that sort of lazy catch up expenditure was by limiting your market. Of course, leading a market with intensive and FOCUSED R&D allows a smart company to amortize the larger expenditure over a broader range and of course, sales of a superior product. Not to discount the current problem of not having the right product when the market demands it by refusing to commit to that R&D. Or is the entire industry now on the electoral cycle? I had sort of hoped that Ford plans to sell customer driven product for at least a few more decades. FWIW, international leadership on clear goals is the over arching problem, but still, I can't imagine Ford being able to say to shareholders in a few years, yes, we saved a chunk in years 1-4, but by waiting, we missed on X units for the forseeable future. PIH's are going to dominate market share in the future, by virtue of being the only way to utilize existing infrastructure efficiently. And sorry, but the toff eggheads say there is no legitimate worry about the grid. By that point in the mid future, we will at least have a bridge technology in place to move from. By waiting and doing the same thing we do now(what do they call that again?), we won't have the smart option, we will need an as yet unforseeable magic bean. At this point, I also wonder if had Ford found a way to keep Visteon, the ability to sell smart chargers to the very same customers who bought the car might have been a stellar way to amortize these costs. Beyond that, the industry is gearing up to build these things in stupid numbers. Can Ford (or anyone else?) afford to go it alone with something else? Betcha I hear next from the bio fuel gang. :stats: