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The entire state of WV is offended by associating us with VT. I think it has less to do with paddles and more to do with how kids have been brought up. Today kids are constantly told not to make fun of others. When kids do get made fun of, they don't know how to deal with it. Kids used to bully kids, beat them up, and make fun of them years ago. Kids dealed with it. Nowadays, it is SO WRONG to call someone a name that kids snap over getting called names.

I didn't get it either. I really like how it was integrated with the nav. unit, but I don't see myself paying $13/month for radio. I've wondered if I could add it at a later date as if I changed my mind, but I haven't been able to find an answer.

Go into Display Properties -> Appearance -> Advanced and change the settings for Message Box. I found in like 5 sec. It's not that difficult. If Apple had the market share that MS has, they would have security problems too. Even though the security is tighter, problems would still arise. Why would someone take the time to find holes in Apple's security to affect only 5% of the market when they could attack 90% of the market share? It may be more difficult to do on a Mac but its not worth the time. I love how MS adds user controls to Vista to fix the administrative user problem that everyone has complained about for some time and as soon as they do, everyone screams that its annoying, including Apple. Part of the problem before was that everyone always logged into Windows as an administrator. Log into Mac or Unix as root all the time and see if you have security problems. It all goes back to user error, like your complaints above. If you have 90% of the market, you have a lot more people who don't know what they are doing. This results in a lot of problems that can easily be avoided and a lot of bad PR. Anyhow, let's get back on topic. As was stated earlier about the conversation that was overheard with the people with no loyalty to their brand after good experiences. This goes back to what I have thought about many times while reading this board: You think way too highly of the average car buyer. They are going to buy the car that they think looks good, they can afford, meets their needs. They aren't going to look at the specs or the details (engine, transmission, etc.) or reviews or ratings. Most people don't research before they buy a car.

No, I don't think it will be too bad. It's kind of a textured material so it gives it a different look. I can try to get an up close picture if you would like.

According to the window sticker, my '08 FWD Mariner Hybrid was 34 city, 30 highway. Underneath those numbers it said that it would have been 41 city, 32 highway with the old testing methods. I can't help you with the numbers for the AWD.

I forgot to add...Don't believe everyting you read, especially opinion pieces.

This report has been flying all over the internet in the last 2 weeks and popping up on numerous talk shows. The report has been out for a while. There are a lot of poor assumptions and misguided facts. Here is a letter written to the editor of the article: Dear Editor, Chris Demorro's opinion piece, "Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage" suffers from a lack of fact checking. He claims ". . . their ultimate 'green car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America" copied from a flawed _Daily_ _Mail_ article without at least fact checking the environmental record of the Inco Sudbury Canadian plant, http://wwww.inco-sudbury-airquality.com/. Frank Javor, Superintendent, Health and Environment, CVRD Inco Smelting Operations e-mailed their annual emissions data going back to 1974, 23 years before Toyota sold their first Prius. Since then, INCO has made a 90% reduction in SO(2) and INCO emissions continue to go down. Chris failed to check the amount of nickel used in hybrid batteries, about 200 pounds per vehicle or 30 million pounds for 150,000 existing Prius versus the annual Canadian nickel output, over 380 million pounds. Nickel production is driven by the vastly larger market for stainless steel and other high temperature metals. Failure to fact check is compounded when the flawed CNW Marketing report is cited while the "Institute for Lifecycle Environmental Assessment", http://www.ilea.org/lcas/macleanlave1998.html, from Carnegie Mellon University, reports 73% of the energy used comes from operation, not manufacturing. Only CNW Marketing makes this false claim and compounds the error by using dollars instead of Joules, an energy unit. Those who have read the CNW Marketing report can confirm a large number of false claims including assignment of shorter vehicle lifetimes to hybrids, excessively development costs, false recycling claims, and a claim that hybrids are "a style.' This last lie suggests that if someone had a gas-only Camry and a hybrid Camry, they would drive the gas Camry even with $3/gal gas because the hybrid is "a style." An opinion piece that states the opposite of the facts and data is deliberately misleading to the point of propaganda. Hybrids aren't for everyone but in this case, Chris failed to fact check and at best, his piece was misleading. Robert J. Wilson Sr. Network Engineer 9011 Randall Road Huntsville, AL 35802 Here is a graph from http://www.pollutionissues.com/Re-Sy/Smelting.html that shows the decreased pollution from the plant: The whole financial/economic argument is void. Very few people buy a hybrid in order to save money. I bought my 2008 Mariner Hybrid because I love the technology. Was it worth the $3000 premium, probably not. But, with a $3000 tax credit on the FWD version, I'll break even without even calculating fuel mileage savings. In my first days of driving my Mariner Hybrid, I'm getting 29.5 mpg, and it should only improve from there.

Yeah the center console with navigation is a 6.5" touch screen and I'm loving it. Yeah I was disappointed about the audio controls. They come on the Premier model but not the standard model or Hybrid model. Bummer.

Thanks econolineman for the x-plan pin and thanks chuck734 for the order status updates along the way!

I'm not aware of any problems with NiMh and memory. Ford and Toyota never fully charge or fully discharge the battery. They attempt to keep the charge near the middle range. They have shown that this extends the life of the battery. Since the warranty on the battery is 8 years/100,000 miles or 10 years/150,000 miles (depending on what state you are in), I wouldn't consider battery memory to be a problem.

The Highland Hybrid has ESC as well though lately some have been complaining that it has prevented them from being able to get out of their driveway in less than 2" of snow. I have also heard that the problem with the ESC is the regenerative braking system. Lithium ion batteries and plug-in hybrids are still some time off. Right now lithium ions are the only solution for plug-in hybrids but safety and economics make it difficult. Lithium ions have the risk of bursting into flames (ie Dell battery recall). It has recently been discovered that they also have safety concerns at temperatures below freezing (32 F). Besides these safety concerns, the lifespan of lithium ion batteries are not as good as NiMh. Lithium ions only have a lifespan of roughly three years. Who wants to spend the extra money for a hybrid and then have to shell out another $5,000 or more for a new battery in 3 years.

When I stated that the taxis would be harder on components, I should have specified hybrid components. They are going to be charging and discharging a lot more often than most vehicles. Hybrids at this point are as much of a research and development effort as they are a sellable product. Like I said, hybrids have a lot of potential. By developing and selling hybrids, Ford can fine tune the technology while getting there name out there. When the hybrids of the future are developed, Ford will have a hybrid history and customers will have more confidence in them.

Couldn't you do most of that (with the exception of the weight loss) to the hybrid and simply improve the fuel economy of the hybrid? Everyone wants to attack hybrids and say that there are other ways to increase fuel mileage. The thing is...they aren't mutually exclusive. Some people complain about hybrids and say that diesel is the way to go. Well...how about a diesel hybrid? Combine the benefits of the two. There is a lot more potential for hybrids than what people give them credit for. People just want to attack them and call them a gimmick. The battery pack and all hybrid components are warranted for 8 years, 100,000 miles, or 10 years in some states. Tests have shown the batteries to last longer. The Ford Escape hybrid taxis in NYC had to have the batteries replaced at 150,000 miles. Ford replaced them under warranty. Taxis in NYC are going to be a lot harder on the components than normal drivers, so I would say that is pretty good. Factor in the decreasing costs of batteries and I wouldn't consider it a large risk.

I have heard the same. No specifics, but something with the regenerative braking.

Solution to 4 speed... Hybrid. CVT has infinte speeds. The hybrid model is an advantage that Ford has over competitors in this class as well. The only other hybrids are the Saturn Vue and Toyotal Highlander (and Lexus, but thats not really the same class). The Vue is barely a hybrid and cannot compete with the Escape. The Highlander has some advantages and is a larger SUV. It is more expensive, overpriced, and does not get nearly the gas mileage of the Escape Hybrid.

Thanks anyhow. I have already ordered a 2008 Mariner Hybrid, but I'm desperate to find new information to hold me over until it comes in. I'm also trying to find out if it has the steering wheel audio controls. I assumed that it would, but I have heard that they are not available in the Escape Hybrid. The order guide here seems to back that up. They are listed in the hybrid owner's manual, and I have heard from one person that they are available. But, I have also heard from a few that they are not. No confirmation as of yet.

Do you have the 2008 Mariner order guide? Thanks.

This isn't anything new. My wife bought a 2006 Mitsubishi Eclipse in June 2005 and we received 2 keys with the remotes built into them like this. It took a little getting used to but I like it. Its bigger than a normal key, but its smaller than carrying around the remote and a transponder key. As for #1 and #3, that goes for any transponder key. Unless you want a car without any type of engine immobilizer, you're stuck with a bigger key that is expensive and can only be made by the dealer.

Yes the A/D/X/Z Plans can be combined with most incentives (not Ford College Graduate), but I don't know if they will be slapping any incentives on the '08s anytime soon. They are being released extremely early for an 08 model. They have also lowered the price of the 08 model below that of the 07 model in order to provide less incentives and attempt to raise residual values. I got the break down when I went to order my vehicle through x-plan at the dealership. My salesman printed off the vehicle order confirmation for me. It had all the details of my order and included the MSRP and invoice pricing of the base and options. It also provided the total price under the A/D/X/Z plans. I do not believe that they fluctuate. I would imagine they would only change if the MSRP or invoice changes. I'm not sure how they compute A/D/Z plans, but X-plan is Invoice - 0.4% + $75. I would assume that there is some kind of formula for A/Z and that D is simply A/Z + $100. You can find X-plan pricing by going to www.fordpartner.com and entering a partner code. Google for one if you need to. You aren't going to create a PIN so it's no big deal. Click on vehicles & pricing and then choose the vehicle you are interested in. It will link you to the inventory search for that vehicle and will display MSRP and X-Plan. If you change the X in the web address where it says planType=X to A or Z, it will provide you with MSRP and A/Z pricing. I'm not sure how to get D-plan pricing but like I said, I think it is $100 over A/Z.

D-plan is $100 over A/Z Plan. On the 2008 Mariner Hybrid that I ordered: MSRP: $30,005 Invoice: $28,334.87 A/Z Plan: $27,204.87 D Plan: $27,304.87 X Plan: $28,296.53

I don't know for sure as its not listed on the Mercury website. I configured it the same way on Edmunds, and it says the invoice price is $27,584.

I believe that D-Plan is close to A or Z plan. Here is the A/Z Plan price on a 2008 Mariner that I found at a local dealership: A/Z-Plan: $26,862 Total MSRP: $29,620 I ordered a 2008 Mariner Hybrid last week. I'll try to remember to check my invoice sheet to see what the D-plan price is on it, but I don't have access to it right now. Hope that helps.

It will be a while before anyone has an entry level EV car, but I'd love to see it. Meanwhile, I'll go with the best I can get. (Waiting on my 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid.)

It only comes in Stone. You can build and price one at KBB.com I have not seen an ordering guide as of yet, but here is a link to the owner's manual in case you are interested in that. 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid Owner's Manual

I don't know if you can say that Scion is successful. Sure, they are selling cars, but are they meeting their goal. The goal of Scion is to reach out to younger buyers because Toyota does not have much of the younger market. Scion is selling cars but to basically the same people that Toyota does. Scion hasn't been able to capture the younger market like they were supposed to.