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Yah I have seen it. It is from a past regional director who lost his job. It is the dumbest thing I ever read. He is bitter for losing his job and just living to cause a problem. Some life.

Ima, point taken, but let's see what the percentage is here at Ford before we assume the 50%. I have known that Chrysler was always a little radical. Their position was weak with a venture capital group who doesn't even know if they want to stay in business versus a family like Ford who doesn't want to go out of business. What I am saying is, if our pattern plus is better - which last contracts usually are, then we could possibly be higher in acceptance than GM. At that point, we probably wouldn't argue.

2 year clock starts ticking after you refuse twice. You can also choose to sit at home and get 85% of your pay, or do community service or non-traditional work and get 100%. Either way, it doesn't last forever. Gen funds are severly depleted from closed plant employees refusing to go anywhere and happy to sit on their asses for a 40 free paycheck. That all ends.

If you log onto www.fidelityinvestments.com you can create an account using your social security number and your hire in date as a pin. From there you can model different loans or withdrawls an read instructions on what qualifies. It is simple and self explanatory. The money can even be directly deposited directly into your checking account if you want.

Dude, this is the same shit as the other threads. Let's stick to one or two so we don't have to repeat ourselves over and over. I mean, you can do what ya want. But this makes it seem like you want to branch out "you opinion, without any others". C'mon dude, same shit different thread.

Hemmer, I never said everyone was doing a great job. I agree with your statement entirely.

Regardless of his number of posts, he raises significant questions. But furious, I believe that I read that a team of the National parties will decide for the big 3. It specifically states it will not be done locally. As I stated before, we cannot allow plants within Ford to whipsaw eachother by offering to give away more to get product. That is the beauty of a moritorium on outsourcing, and product being provided an the National level. It won't happen. On top of that, I believe the locals will have more power, being that their product will already be granted, so the Local management won't be holding that carrot over their head this time around. I believe what you are asking for is in the language already.

Listen Buddy, While I would love to be all solidarity like with you, it's hard enough for us to get along down here. This is a FORD employee forum, Canadian GM workers are welcome to read just don't post your misleading Hoser bullshit down here Not much difference at the end of the day??? Take off you hoser - to the Great White North.

I respect your opinion, but words cannot express mine, so..........

Apparently you read it wrong it says "UAW got pay raises after the contract ratification, GM inside news" The reason I say it is misleading, is because it was the CAW not the UAW. Different union dude. Wouldn't it be just as misleading to say the "Teamsters got a raise" if it was the "UAW". I believe that during a controversial time such as this, no falsehoods should be spread that are anti-union. This thread is and was misleading people to be disgruntled with the UAW when the original post is about the CAW. Just read some of the replies, and see how many people have viewed this thread. I do not believe it was furious's intent, I believe he understood what he was posting, maybe just a typo. Anyway I don't see how you can argue this point with me. I am right. It was and is misleading people against their Union at a critical time.

And Furious, don't you think your thread was a little misleading in it's title. UAW should say CAW. Not a fair thread title.

Kimber, Ron Gettlefinger is with the UAW. Buzz Hargrove runs the CAW. It is a different union!!!!!! Maybe you should get your facts straight before you lynch someone or accuse someone of backstabbing based on a Canadian Union story. A little solidarity sister?

Should I thank you or should your bargaining rep say thank you?

I don't know what he is talking about either sometimes. Anyway furious. I will accept "progressive two tier" as a synonym for "Grow in" or "entry level".

They are not entitled to any more than your local appointees, but I don't hear anyone bitching to have them elected. Why? Because we all know that they have a tremendous amount of training and knowledge gained over the years that only enhances their ability. For this reason, I say the same goes for the International. I am not talking about any "one" example. I am sure we can all point out a flaw in an individual. I am talking an overall philosophy.

Got "fed up" or decided to "feed on"? Many of them went to supplier companies and used their influence at prior positions to get or enhance Ford business. Like DeMars going to Plastech etc.. I don't mind pay for performance, as I stated earlier. But maybe my idea of performance and theirs need to be the same first. I think many of them are just corporate mushrooms, feeding off their host. What ever happened to the noncompete clauses they use to make these guys sign for 3 to 5 years after they retire to stop this shit from happening?

Okay, I'll try. But Furious is the one who got me going on the pictures.

Could happen, it depends. Placement hierarchy language will determine. We will need to wait and see on that, how many will be left after the buyouts, where the openings are, etc. then go by the hierarchy language. Right now it's just an educated guess based on pattern language from ESS

IMA, #1. You either give me too much credit, or you don't give me enough. I didn't ask to rebutt the acceptibility of every point I made, it all sucks. I simply stated that most people braced themselves for worse, based on the state of the economy and the Company. When it all came to pass, and it was not as bad as everyone predicted, they threw stones. Many Union reps are thrown away for making the right decisions for their members, because many of them don't see the big picture or how it affects all - they only care about themselves most of the time. I see it everyday. That is my point, and I believe hendew makes a similar point. I understand people are going to bitch, and the truth is, that unless you knew everthing that was said, and every option offered and bargained at the national table- you will never know what the right thing was. Months and Months of talks and financials are gone through, what programs to save and what to let go - all to have someone who knows nothing of WHY something was done criticize it. The COA's were meant to keep us afloat and stop the next "way forward" from closing more plants until we could get to the table. In a way we did give Ford a loan by saving them 1 billion dollars they would have spent without the COA's. Relief of debt is as good as a cash loan in my book. No one at the plant levels knows what really happens at the table, but I am sure an approach to stop the hemmorraghing, shore up the cash, force investment in the US and just get us to the next contract was no easy task. Forcing this means shareholders must also agree, as well as the banks holding the 23 billion dollar mortgage who want to protect their capital. I am sure that history will prove this right or wrong. I personally find it genius for my own reasons and believe that the next contract will regain much of the foothold lost, as long as the market cooperates with the plan. and P.S. - I really never honed in on just one of your points to discredit the rest either - AS CLAIMED, that is more the M.O. of others on this thread.

Five office visits..........don't hold your breath, that wasn't pattern Cut in pay..................Ain't happening to active seniority workers New product...............Wait and see. Don't worry about the newspapers, they are always screwed up.

It's pattern on the 16th, but take my word for it. Don't we have a lot of other issues that are paramount right now?

Sing it dude.

IMA, you don't vote for the President, you just think you do. The Electoral College votes for him -( sometimes despite popular vote ! chad chad) Similarly, you do vote for your International President the same way - The IEB makes a call, and The delegates of the COC-CON vote to agree or disagree. You surely aren't giving a great man justice. REMEMBER A YEAR OR TWO AGO YOU ALL SAID, 1. OUR WAGES WILL ALL BE CUT 5 TO 7 BUCKS 2. WE WILL PAY A HIGH CONTRIBUTION TO HEALTH CARE LIKE SALARY 3. THE GEN PROGRAM WILL BE ENTIRELY GONE 4. THEY ARE GOING TO CLAIM BANKRUPTCY AND WE WILL ALL LOSE JOBS AND HEALTH CARE NONE OF THAT HAS HAPPENED, ALL THROUGH CLEVER BARGAINING. DUDE, A LITTLE CREDIT

Understandable bro.