stpatrick90

Just because you don't like a cars styling doesn't mean it is going to be a failure. You are not some sort of 'styling barometer' that determines whether a cars styling allows a car to be a success or not.

Nothing about the current Escape makes it any less a chick car than the Liberty.

The Ford and Subaru take Regular, the Audis take Premium which in part allows them to accomplish the mpg that they do. However my MKS recommends premium, but I run it on regular most of the time and get the same mpg as when I run it on premium. And with that said the fact that the larger, heavier and more powerful Taurus and MKS can obtain the same mpg as the Fusion is quite an amazing feat.

Yeah and they also compete on a level above the Fusion and Legacy. I added those merely to assert that more can be done to further efficiency with AWD. I do believe that Ford is moving in that direction as well, for instance the Ford Edge 3.5L AWD gets 18/25 which is the exact same as the current Fusion 3.5L AWD. I feel this demonstrates clear progress in AWD efficiency for Ford. The fact that a CUV that weighs considerably more, has worse aerodynamics, and has more power than a car but gets the same mpg is impressive by any measure.

That is my sentiment towards the Edge as well. It isn't bad but isn't exactly great either. In my opinion it certainly is better looking compared to many of its competitors such as the Crosstour, Murano, or Venza.

In what way is the new Focus bland or anonymous? It is among the most underivative cars in its class.

I never said you were alone. My assertion still stands that many place to high of value on the style of the Escape in explaining its sales success. If the styling of the Escape, which you describe as 'tough', explains the success of the Escape then why don't models like the Liberty and Patriot do better in terms of sales as they both certainly embody the 'tough' styling you value so highly. Conversely why do models like the CRV and Rav4 sell so well despite their lack of 'tough' styling?

You are so hung up on the idea that the current Escape sells in large numbers because of its styling...as many have pointed out the Escape is a success because it is cheap to buy, another words it is a stellar deal. If styling were so important to sales the Camry certainly wouldn't be the number one midsize sedan, nor would the Corolla be the number one compact.

2012 Ford Fusion 3.0L V6 (240 hp) AWD 18/26 3.5L V6 (263 hp) AWD 17/25 2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5L H4 (170 hp) 23/31 3.6L H6 (256 hp) 18/25 Clearly Ford is doing just fine in comparison with Subaru. If anything Ford and Subaru need to catch up to Audi. 2012 Audi A6 3.0L S/C V6 (310 hp) 19/28 2012 Audi A4 2.0L T/C I4 (211 hp) 19/29

The posting of the interior dimensions was more in reference to your complaint of not being able to fit in the car...if you can't fit in the Taurus you are not going to fit into any of these cars as they essentially all mirror each other in terms of dimensions. As far as driving experience I can attest to the fact that the Taurus feels more solid, if not more agile than the LaCrosse, Impala, and Avalon. The 300 isn't as far ahead of the Taurus in driving dynamics as you would like to believe either from my experience with them.

Chrysler 300 Head Room (F/R) 38.6/37.9 Leg Room (F/R) 41.8/40.1 Hip Room (F/R) 56.2/56.1 Shoulder Room (F/R) 59.5/57.7 Buick LaCrosse Head Room (F/R) 38.0/37.3 Leg Room (F/R) 41.7/40.5 Hip Room (F/R) 55.2/53.9 Shoulder Room (F/R) 57.4/56.0 Ford Taurus Head Room (F/R) 39/37.8 Leg Room (F/R) 41.9/38.1 Hip Room (F/R) 56.3/55.8 Shoulder Room (F/R) 57.9/56.9 Toyota Avalon Head Room (F/R) 38.9/37.5 Leg Room (F/R) 41.3/40.9 Hip Room (F/R) 55.8/56.2 Shoulder Room (F/R) 59.4/58.2 Chevy Impala Head Room (F/R) 39.4/37.8 Leg Room (F/R) 42.3/37.6 Hip Room (F/R) 56.4/57.2 Shoulder Room (F/R) 58.7/58.6 The Taurus compares directly to its competitors in terms of interior dimensions

You are an insufferable oaf. As WE ALL have pointed out there are many things you could have done differently in your situation but given your irrationality with dealing with the problem you were simply incapable of doing the logical course of action that normal people do. Here is what I would have done in a mature, sensible manner: 1) Despite your claim of "knowing" the dealership had the best chance of dealing with the problem (which obviously they didn't) I would have gone to another dealership for at least another opinion. I know that any normal person would do this. For example the MMI in my Audi wasn't working properly so I took it to the dealership that I bought it from and they claimed they couldn't fix it as it was working as they believed it should, I took it to another service department and after an hour I was on my way home with a fix. 2) If you car was in fact a lemon, you could have done Lemon Law despite your misconceptions about it, it actually doesn't require a lawyer. I know laws vary from state to state but around 2003 my mother filed a lemon law claim on her MB at the time and it was a quick and rather simple process. 3) If all the above actions failed then I would look at trading in the car for another. a.) However I would not take a significant hit on the trade in value such as you did. Lets say for an easy example you bought a car for $24,000 and that after less than a year and only 9000 miles your trade in should have been at least in the $15,000 to $17,000 range. Comparatively I believe you stated you traded your Focus in for $12k or $13k. You wen from a more expensive car to a cheaper car, your monthly payment should have gone down, not up. The Toyota dealership hosed you big time. b.) Also when I would go to trade in, I would not buy a Corolla. Like I already said I feel that if you would have bought an actual good compact such as a Civic, Elantra, Cruve, etc that you would be getting less flack. I think most would agree with that assertion. To sum it up, you made a mistake in how you dealt with the issue. If you would have approached this issue from a sensible approach you would be getting more empathy.

No I don't think that is the point they are making. I think they are ridiculing you for purchasing a Corolla as a replacement. I have a feeling that if you had replaced your Focus with a Civic, Elantra, 3, Cruze or just about any other compact other than a Corolla that there would be less ridicule. Also the way you handled the situation as a whole certainly leaves a lot to be desired as well.

You ignore the part where I said Ford made a mistake and was at fault as well. I am not giving Ford a free pass on any level, nor should anyone. My point is that I would have dealt with the situation in a much better manner. I wouldn't have been so irrational in dealing the problem. I would have attempted more avenues in trying to get the problem recognized by a service department and ultimately fixed; if that failed then I would have either filed for lemon law or I would have traded the car in for a different one. However if I got to the point of trading my car in I wouldn't have definitely bought a better car than the Corolla and I most definitely wouldn't have taken such a ridiculous trade in price. If I were in this position I would have probably looked at the Elantra, Cruze, or Civic as all three of those cars are light years ahead of the Corolla and achieve the function of being a good 'fridge'.

I am sorry I couldn't keep track of all your endless ramblings. I still maintain that the way you have handled this situation is questionable at best. I mean you got absolutely hosed on your trade in for the Corolla, that Toyota Dealership should be ashamed of itself. If you look online at 2012 Focii with 8000-12000 miles one them they are still going for well over $20000 in most cases. I am not saying that Ford didn't mess up, they certainly did but I would have handled this situation in a much more sensible manner.

The Corolla is akin to a kitchen appliance, sure it does its task of being an item of going from point a to point b, but it lacks personality that other cars in this class manage to have while still fulfilling the basic task of being transportation that you desire. I fully understand while you decided to get rid of your Focus, given your resistance to use another service department or talk to a regional manager, your only remaining option was to get rid of it.

I know this will probably mean nothing to you but for the rest of us these results show the Focus is at the forefront of its class in terms of mpg despite what the EPA might say. Insideline Focus 33.2 best, 24.2 worst, 27 average (over 717 miles) Elantra 31.1 best, 20.2 worst, 23.6 average mpg (over 762 miles) MT Cruze 23.8 avg Focus 27.9 avg Civic 29.4 avg Elantra 25.7 avg Forte 23.9 avg 3 27.8 avg Corolla 27.6 avg Jetta TDI 32.3 avg

If you take a quick at these links Elantra vs Focus you will notice the Focus is getting better real world mileage than the Elantra with a larger more powerful motor.

Nothing about the Escape in 2001 made it look any tougher than the CRV or RAV4.

I am sorry but I feel the assertion that the 2001-2007 Escapes were tough looking is a bit of a stretch.

I don't know the Focus has been fairly well received actually, I mean it won countless comparisons and was bestowed a 10Best Award. I mean I understand your Focus had problems and no one denies that but the fact that you would rather take a huge hit financially rather than take time to go to another dealership and have them actually fix it removes any of your credibility. Further removing your credibility is that you bought a Corolla as the replacement. I mean I could still have a modicum of respect for you if you had replaced it with just about any other compact, but a Corolla, really? I would take a Forte or Jetta above a Corolla even and that says a lot.

I have never had any issues with the AWD in my MKS, nor did I ever have any issues with the Sable AWD I had. My driveway is quite long and winds up the side of a hill and I live in a quite snowy area so I have great experience in testing AWD systems you could say. My MKS is every bit as capable as my S6 with snow tires in climbing up my drive, in some cases I actually think the MKS does a better job because it has greater ground clearance.

However the Elantra uses a 1.8L vesus the Focus' 2.0L and according real world figures the Elantra gets worse mileage than the Focus. Elantra vs Focus

Personally this seems like more work than a benefit. If anything it would be nice to have the car operate as normal when it was turned on and if sportier driving was wanted you could engage a sport mode which would alter the suspension, transmission, ESC/TC/ABS thresholds, and the AWD system (more rear-biased). I believe the new Lincoln drive control does most of this already when switched into sport, there are however no alterations to the AWD or ABS thresholds in sport mode at this point. However to even allow for the AWD system to operate in an alternative mode would mean further engineering work would need to be done which while possible would probably add to further weight, worse fuel economy and much greater cost to purchase. There however is no gain in making a car that is predominately FWD to run as a RWD car. By making a FWD chassis run RWD you don't magically make it handle like a Mustang or insert another RWD car. What you would end up with by allowing a FWD based car to run RWD would be miles of understeer because of the noise heavy weight distribution that is inherent with FWD chassis. Also if I remember correctly the Charger and 300 AWD cars have the ability to run RWD only so the idea isn't as novel as first thought, however I do admit that it isn't the exact same as this example.

What is the prospect of this vehicle being offered in the US?