Bob Rosadini

For sure. And I imagine the tariff issue will be a factor but I would have to believe Trump will have to respond to that.

Finally caught up with your post, and while I'm sure your reference to people who have "esoteric likes", was intended to be a "shot", that is in fact the problem I would say Ford Pro has. While on the one hand Farley speaks of the dominance Ford has in class 1-7 he and his management team could learn a lot about what the market for class 6 and 7 trucks is. But it seems to me they have a narrow understanding of the class 6/7 market is..or if they do, they "go along to get along"-that is survive! I don't remember who, but a retired Ford long termer on BON said an assignment to commercial trucks was considered a dead end assignment. I would say Ford must now recognize that most businesses focus on class 1-7 trucks as a required component to support their core business. I have long ago recognized that the class 8 ship has sailed-sorry Joe 76- but we are not talking about that now. As Tbone has said, OAP functions. No significant plant expenditures are needed to keep class 6 and 7 in the mix. Is that line at full utilization? Probably not. And what have the class 8 builders done in recent years? They have moved DOWN into class 6 and 7 and while their trucks I'm sure appeal to some buyers who are willing to pay a premium for their trucks, some do so for image/ego or as a driver retention tool. But for most, a class 6 or 7 truck is a needed component and a 650 or 750 Ford can be speced to do the same job. Probably the biggest obstacle?....Fords failure to offer a Cummins or an Allison transmission. And guess what, before OAP took on MD, the 650/750 starting in 2000 when Fords Escobedo plant was including those options up to and including the Blue Diamond venture. Time that some "esoteric" types who have a good understanding of what the market for class 6 and 7 trucks is. Just as you Mr. Sherminator might be considered an "esoteric" in your world of "business analytical 101 skills"😎

10-4 on the "thanks for effort"

Second attempt to respond to "From the Road" post..I had backed out to open another message and when I did my original post was gone. Guess you can't do that anymore? In any case, thanks for "From the Road" link. I checked it out and went to Ford Pro, and shocker, while the narrative refers to Ford's leadership in class 1 to 7 commercial trucks, the Ford Pro site features Transits and Super Duty with no mention/reference to 650/750. This takes me back to a post I made on 8/21.."Jim Farley's Priorities" and his apparent definition of "commercial trucks". This prompted many posts justifying Ford's lack of interest in..."semi trucks"..."large big rig style trucks" etc, as well as the need for concentration on "best ROI". These all miss the point as to what market in which Ford has an opportunity to compete. As I've said previously, trucks of any class can be the reason a business exists, such as for hire trucking, be it dry or liquid freight or dump trucking or a class 8 chassis is needed as a crane carrier, redi-mix concrete etc. But in most cases, the lower classes- in particular class 6 or 7, the truck is a vehicle in support of the primary business. It is NOT a matter of ROI for these customers, it is a matter of need to support the smooth operation of the business. I don't think Ford (Brian Rathsburg commercial marketing mgr) understands this. This past weekend I went by the yard of a large contractor that does highway and marine projects..the full range of civil work. The low boy trailers were loaded for dispatch Monday morning and one had a 650/750 water tanker that by its very clean appearance was relatively new. A good example of a limited use truck that is needed for the application of water in a paving project or for providing water as needed for soil compaction. A chassis used to carry attenuator equipment is another good example- the truck sits to maintain a safe work zone. If a contractor is cost conscious, you wont see a Pete or KW in this application. The 650/750 is a good product for such duty. Likewise many other businesses need a truck as a matter of convenience to have on sight as needed. Building contractors are a good example. If they have a class 6 or 7 truck(s), they often sit ideal..until the lumber yard failed to deliver a full order or the job requires a quick load of mason or bedding sand etc. Utility contractors are another good example. I would imagine 7m3 gets my point at least as around here, National Grid employs class 7 dump trucks-some of which are Fords, and what do they do, they often sit parked to contain material being excavated and then used to provide clean fill. In any case it would not take much IMO to keep 650/750 a very good low cost alternative to satisfy a large percentage of the the class 6/7 market

SLS For sure! The CLT is a beauty but the T-850 is a gem given its age-I'm guessing a 63 to 65 judging by badge and it is a "low roof". I think '66 is when they boosted head room with the raised roof. The old F-2 or F-3 in background is pretty cool too😎

Seems too obvious doesn't it? No flames please, but as I've said many times, think of the incremental sales lost because they offer BS excuses why they can't offer air brakes on 650/750 gas models. A lot of class 6 and 7 operators run a business where their trucks are used in support of their primary business. Without them they would be forced to hire someone for that support and or suffer the disruption to their business while waiting for that outside support. And a key point, they are more likely to buy that truck when the up front price is some $12,000 less then a diesel. Oh side note...Hino was supposedly going to offer class 8 trucks then every thing was apparently derailed when they had their compliance issues. While I have not seen any news that says they are back on schedule with that, apparently they are as one of the "ad rags" I get shows one of those "class 6/7" Hinos for sale with about a 15 yd dump body and 46,000 lb. rears!

Correct....I've got three on my visor and I've often thought these negate the purpose of padded visors🤔

Well my bad, seems like I failed to make my point, as I was not talking about the distinguishing appearance of one model from another-like grills, I was talking about the choice of badging Ford uses. And judging by the responses I received to my post I guess not many think a decal is a poor choice to accentuate the model you are looking at. And I recognize some use of decals is appropriate ..like the bed decals that may indicate an option such as the FX option. I just think a decal conjures up the word "cheap" to designate level of a vehicle in the product line up. And by the way, why did I buy an XL-STX versus an XLT? I wanted power seats, not offered in an XL! But I chose the clean -IMO- uncluttered look of the XL-STX versus the look of the XLT grill. (And I got a kit with what I would call bushings that allow you to raise the seat height of a manual seat😎)

Your opinion..it is the little things that catch someones eye..am I wrong?..a $60,000 vehicle and it merits a decal? I call it attention to detail..sometimes it is the little things that create an impression. And it is not a "complaint", it is an observation.

Well "plaster" in any case is the right word. Not exactly a thought central to this thread but I have been meaning to say something about how GM designates a vehicle with a distinctive 3d chrome badge-like "Z-71" and Ford "plasters" a decal instead. My son has his second "new" Bronco-first was a manual, another story 🤔- and this new one had a sticker over 60g....same sticker- "proudly" displayed.

I'm posting this on this thread as it might apply to more Fords with towing packages. Couple of weeks ago I was hooking up my '23 F-150 to my skid steer trailer. Never had a problem with it before but was getting a "trailer not connected" message and a "Trailer brake module fault message". No lights, no brakes. I was pulling my JD 4720 cab tractor with bucket on it and a set of HD forks. Tractor has loaded R-4 tires and a concrete weight block that is between 400 and 500 pounds. Did not want to chance pulling if at least brakes worked it as I have a steep downward grade on my route and did not want trailer steering the truck. Since then same trailer has been pulled by a Ram and an f-350 and lights and brakes work fine. Last week take truck to dealer-and by the way, tested my 7 pin connector and it is fine. Dealer has been screwing around and says..we need the trailer to test it. I say, "no way-look at fault code"! So to prove my point beyond two other trucks towing same trailer with no issues I tested trailer one more time with my son's '24 150 and everything works fine. Any opinions.? Must be some tech assistance dealer can access i hope. By the way truck has a 7050 GVWR, 3.73 locking rear, "Trailer Tow Package Integrated Trailer Brake Cont."

Back to today's medium duty, just saw lousy August numbers-thx Antus-all various..but on my way to my Ford dealer (post relative to that to follow🤯) I saw like 4 750/650's in a short drive. One was a new by its clean appearance National Grid the others were flatbeds with various loads all corporate id's. Odd..4 on a short drive and on my many 100+ mile trips on 495 I'm lucky to see 1 or 2..usually UPS.

ah thx-forgot about that...what could be worse than a 6.4? One with 6 cyl🤔

A Cargo??

True about Jac. Also remember he bought a bunch of "salvage yards" aka junk yards, and the rationale was they could study vehicles to analyze "parts failures", or words to that effect...actually said that to a Boston Globe reporter. As for his comment on making more money on interest, I assume that statement was based on the significant dollars spent for the new HN-80 trucks- "how to lie with numbers".

Hmnn? I assume you mean that....."more return on racing" is associated with increased sales because of the publicity/coverage that racing gets?..the old "race on Sunday, sell on Monday"? I think when you look at what these racing programs cost, at best it is a break even. In particular when you look beyond Nascar. Ask 10 random people who the leading Formula 1 driver is and I'll bet you don't even get a name. Cart.."Alex Rossi"? "Isn't he that chef on H & G TV"? As for everyone "ignores or hates trucks because they are fucking up traffic" my guess is most people recognize trucks are a fact of life. Oh and I do watch Nascar and IMSA because there are Fords running. Nascar "Ford" trucks without Ford engines? Not so much.

Well I went to the Ford website and using my zip code did a search for "Commercial Dealers"...there is no choice for "Pro"-only "Commercial". 10 came up and of the 10 one was a Class 8 dealer in the "old days". That dealer started as a Pete dealer then was sold and it became a Ford dealer until the end. It now handles International and Fords at that location. We are 27 years out since Ford pulled the plug, so how many old guys-like me- with a memory from those days are around. It is a new market. I still say Ford could continue in that market for class 6 and 7 with very few costly spec additions. I guess though that Bill Ford will have to intervene for that to happen because Farley doesn't see the potential and would rather spend huge dollars on Formula 1, IMSA, and the Dakar rally.🤔

Not a chance in this day and age as far as class 8 goes. But class 6 and 7, I still say could do well-at least a lot better than they do now. On a cost basis, the 650/750 remains a low cost alternative as I've said before, where the truck is not the primary source of revenue for the business but is needed to SUPPORT the primary business as needed. Case in point I have two friends that are competitors in the dump truck business. One concentrates on supporting the paving/ aggregate production customers, the other does that as well but does a lot of work for utilities. On those jobs, his trucks sit on a job site all day to either accept spoil from an excavation or remain on site with say bedding or backfill material that goes back in the excavation. All hourly work without pounding his equipment running mileage all day. Which operation do you think makes the most money?? I won't say another word about air brakes on a gas powered 650/750 😎 Then again another dealer in my area spent a lot of money on an exclusive commercial truck service buildings. 14' overhead doors with appropriate ceiling heights. Can't imagine this big dealer would spend that kind of money without some knowledge/assurance that they will need that kind of capability in the future.

Wonder what this means as far as Fiat Powertrain or whatever they call the engine business. And what does this mean to Ford Otosan??

But at what cost? And to how many people? The big winner if it happened? Probably MultiMatic😎

Well an article last week in WSJ was entitled; "Detroit Quickly Pivots as America Rediscovers Love for Gas Guzzlers". In that article Mr. Farley goes on to say..."This is a multibillion dollar opportunity over the next couple of years". The article goes on to say Farley said to analysts...Ford was scaling back EV plans and looking to leverage demand for its big SUVs and commercial trucks. Really? And in the last day or two I've heard/read of his new plans to consider an off road supertruck! Not being content to pour money into Formula One, Mr Farley looks like he has another-at least in my opinion- desire for speed by dumping money into another pet project- or rabbit hole! All this while claiming commercial vehicles are a priority. Or does Mr. Farley think "commercial trucks" is limited to Transits?? If so Mr Farley, please spend a few bucks to engineer an air compressor into gas powered 650/750 so you can continue to sell some medium duties on the west coast, as well as offering buyers in the rest of the country, the lowest cost medium duty conventional truck with gasoline/LPG capability with air brakes. Now to beat others to the punch, no, such a Ford may be less attractive to an International or a Paccar in the same weight classes, but to a large number of buyers where the truck is a necessary vehicle to their primary business as opposed to it being the primary reason for their business, such a Ford would own that portion of the market IMO.

Plus I do believe there are hundreds of them in storage someplace-or so it seems I saw a video of that. Now if the intent is to have a vehicle to run around in duty at base or non-combat roles but seems like a total non combat mission.

For sure, but I would think an F-600 would be a better choice..22,000 GVW versus a 19,500 F-550. And I think the difference between the two is spring and tire ratings??