Issue with Dealer

[blwnsmoke]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this.. I will try not to make this extremely long. If I am being unreasonable, please put me in my place.. but I don't think I am being a $48k purchase.

 

Worked out a deal on a F250 harley davidson truck via email and phone calls.. This was on a thursday and I drove 170 miles to pick it up the next day and drop off my trade. During the paperwork, I saw the $299 doc fee which I know they are not suppose to charge because I got the x plan pricing on it. Being it was the only grey one in 300+ miles from me, I had no choice if I wanted the truck but to pay the fees to get the truck. I also saw a $199 optional feature charge which I asked about.

 

Apparently they put vin etching in every window of all their vehicles (yeah, way to make a guarantee profit) so I had to pay that.

 

Signed the paperwork, took the truck home (again, on Friday). By the way, I love the truck!!!

 

They had a dealership sticker on the tailgate which I removed on Saturday. It wasn't very sticky, I was able to peal it right off which then exposed 3 chips of paint. Looking at the back of the sticker, it was completely clean, no paint residue on it which leads me to believe they conveniently put that sticker over existing paint chips thinking I wouldn't remove it and see it. I then noticed a scratch going down the front drivers window.. it was a clean scratch going almost the whole length of the window.

 

I emailed the internet manager with the issues above.. stating politely that I found paint chips, that I think it was intentionally covered up and that I want the tailgate repainted with factory paint.

 

I got a quick reply stating that they will take care of it, repaint it and I will never know the difference. They ordered the special paint straight from Ford. They said that the window scratch is a known issue.. something about the window motor puts the scratch in it from rolling up and down and will submit it for warranty replacement.

 

Although I feel like they tried to pull a fast one over on me, overall there prompt attention and politeness really put a smile on my face.

 

This past Thursday (had the truck for 6 days), the internet manager tells me the paint was ordered last monday, and that they are going to send a driver up to me on Friday because they forgot to give me the certificate of origin so I could register the truck. They needed the registration per ford by Friday so they had to send someone up to me (1 week after buying the truck).

 

I replied back with a list of concerns and what I would like to see them do. I had a couple of issues, first was that I'd be putting on over 700 miles to drive it down there, drop the tailgate off, then to go down again and pick it up and drive home. It would cost me $150 in fuel for these two trips plus 2 days off from work (5 hour round trip drive). I had requested for them to allow another ford dealer 10 minutes from me do the work which they said they won't do. I then requested that when the driver comes up on friday for the registration, that they drive my truck back and I keep a dealer car to use. They can then drive the truck back up to me when it's done and I will give the dealer car back. I offered to meet them partial way so they wouldn't have to drive all the way but they said no worries because they had to come up anyways for the registration.

 

So I now have a car with a dealer plate on it and they've had my truck for 5 days.

 

Now here is when I start to get angry..

 

I email the internet manager inquiring about the vin etching. I stated to him that I checked all the windows and could not find the etching.. I had asked him to look at it, take a picture and email it to me so I knew where it was and what it looked like. his reply was that it hadn't been done yet and they were going to do it tomorrow (today). I replied back with, "if it hasn't been done, don't do it. I wouldn't have purchased it in the first place if it was an option at the time. Instead I want a refund of the $199 plus the interest that I'm getting charged for something they billed me that was never done." The total came back at around $259.XX.

 

He replied back in a rude email basically stating that his manager said it was already done (meaning before I bought the truck) even though neither of us can find it anywhere on any of the pieces of glass.

 

I traded in a 2005 silverado duramax ext cab for this truck. I had taken pictures of the truck and emailed them to get a trade in amount. They had asked what I was looking for in which I gave them a figure and they wrote back saying they would give me that amount for it.

 

In the rude email, he had basically accused me of not telling them about some of the issues with the truck (needs 4 tires and there is a dent in the plastic moulding/cover of the tailgate. The paint has no scratches or dents anywhere around it.. the interior is perfect (I shampoo the carpets twice a year)... And thatI gave the truck poor maintenance. I replied back for him to check the book in the glove box.. I have recorded every oil change, fuel filter change, air filter change and tranny filter change. I performed all maintenance on this truck myself well within gm's recomendation.

 

Basically I got the feeling that they are just going to screw me over because they have my truck, the deal is done.. I think they are going to do the vin etching today in which I can't do anything about.. and therefore can't get a refund.

 

Up until that point I was pretty happy with how they have been treating me..

 

What do you guys think??

 

To sum it up.. issues I have

 

no vin etching but charged me for it, covered up paint chips with their dealership sticker, charged me the doc fees telling me that it was a Connecticut state law and they have to, putting on 340 miles on my truck to have issues resolved, won't refund the vin etching fee I paid

 

There attempts to resolve the issue:

 

Gave me a dealer car to use while they repaint the tailgate, drove up to get the truck even though they had to come anyways for registration.. so I don't consider something they offered to do.

 

I requested the number and email address of the owner of the dealership but I assume they have already warned him about me so I don't know if it's even worth writing an email to.

 

I thought about calling the 800 number to ford about the dealership charging me the doc fees which we all know they are NOT to charge these fees. But I do not want to stir up anything while they still have possesion of my truck.

 

Opinions.. feedback??

 

Thanks

[bbf2530]

Sheeesh blwnsmoke. Sorry you have had so many problems, and have not even had the chance to enjoy your new vehicle.

 

It is too late now, but my advice to you would have been to walk out the door as soon as they would not remove the "Documentation" fee. In fact, didn't we discuss this in another thread you had, before you purchased, when we decided the Dealer was "blowing smoke"? They know it is not allowed on X-Plan sales, but forced it down your throat anyway. So they dealt with you dishonestly from the beginning. Add to that the intentionally hidden paint damage, missing VIN etching etc, and their business ethics are clear.

 

You should most certainly call the A/X/Z Plan Service number and see if you can get any satisfaction through them (probably not much they can do though, other than document it). It is worth a try.

 

Blwnsmoke, I would fight for some sort of compensation. Right now they have $498 of yours that they should not have charged. Once you have settled whatever you can with them, I would never do business with them again. They did not deal with you in an honest manner. Unfortunately, the signs were there before you purchased, but you were too trusting.

 

From here on in, deal with the Sales Manager or Dealer Manager, not the Internet Manager. I recommend you still attempt to receive a refund of the VIN etching fee, as a "Good Will" gesture. Be firm, but polite. Getting rude or nasty will not help. In my opinion, you can most likely forget about getting the interest. If you push that issue, you will probably get nothing.

______________________________________________________________________________

 

What I am now saying, I am aiming at others contemplating a new car purchase, not you blwnsmoke, as you have already been burned and learned the lesson. I refuse to pile on you.

 

Folks, if you are not in hurry to get a vehicle immediately, Factory Order it. Do not settle for what is on a Dealer lot. The reasons are numerous. It has not sat on a lot for weeks, months or possibly longer. It has not been beaten or test driven by God knows who. It has been precisely ordered and built for you. No eequipment or colors you don't want. No settling for something npt exactly what you wanted, but"close enough".

 

Yes, there are many out there who will never order, and swear by purchasing from stock (my Father-in-Law for one) and I respect your right to do what is best for you, so I add this: If you must buy from Dealer stock for whatever reason, test drive and go over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb. Have them repair any concerns you have before you buy. If they balk at that, why would you believe they will deal honestly after you purchase? Do not take the salesmans word for anything. If they say there is VIN etching, have them show it to you before you sign the papers. Do not buy a vehicle at night, when imperfections are harder to see. Bring a calculator, and go over every figure they show you, as I have noticed over the years that any "honest calculation mistakes" are always magically in the Dealerships favor! Of course, this advice is good for any purchase, Factory Ordered or off the Dealer lot.

 

This is only the tip of the iceberg, but we should all get the point. The Dealer and Salesman are not your friends. This does not mean we should be rude and obnoxious, or that it must be a completely unpleasurable buying experience, but be an educated buyer, and take nothing for granted. There are honest Dealers and salesman out there, but unless they are your Uncle or Best Friend, you don't know that up front.

 

I wish you the best of luck!

Edited May 15, 2007 by bbf2530

[blwnsmoke]

bbf, thanks for your reply. Yes it was me who posted about the doc fee previously. My only issue is that I could not go anywhere else if I wanted the truck. My local dealer was willing to go down and get it.. they confirmed with the dealership that they would trade it to my local dealership but my local dealership offered $4,000 less for my trade in then the one I'm posting about.

 

It was a matter of.. do I want to walk on the purchase of this truck that I could not find anywhere else over $300? That I wasn't willing to do.. I was willing to overlook that fee however when you then add the $200 for the glass etching that was never done.. and the paint chips that were deliberately covered up.. I just can't overlook all 3 things.

 

It's funny because the way the dealership turned on one of the last emails made me feel like they were basically saying we are doing you a lot of favors and how dare you want your $200 back from us (well $260). It's that attitude that really has now got me steamed over this whole thing.

 

I had never planned on doing business with this dealership again.... after the truck purchase that is but I wanted my tailgate fixed so had no choice but to work with them.

 

I welcome any other opinions on this matter.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

[bbf2530]

bbf, thanks for your reply. Yes it was me who posted about the doc fee previously. My only issue is that I could not go anywhere else if I wanted the truck. My local dealer was willing to go down and get it.. they confirmed with the dealership that they would trade it to my local dealership but my local dealership offered $4,000 less for my trade in then the one I'm posting about.

 

It was a matter of.. do I want to walk on the purchase of this truck that I could not find anywhere else over $300? That I wasn't willing to do.. I was willing to overlook that fee however when you then add the $200 for the glass etching that was never done.. and the paint chips that were deliberately covered up.. I just can't overlook all 3 things.

 

It's funny because the way the dealership turned on one of the last emails made me feel like they were basically saying we are doing you a lot of favors and how dare you want your $200 back from us (well $260). It's that attitude that really has now got me steamed over this whole thing.

 

I had never planned on doing business with this dealership again.... after the truck purchase that is but I wanted my tailgate fixed so had no choice but to work with them.

 

I welcome any other opinions on this matter.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Hello again, blwnsoke. :D You are 100% correct. You should not have to overlook any of those things, let alone all three.

 

Good luck, and I hope you get some satisfaction from the Dealership! :beerchug:

[Deanh]

Hello again, blwnsoke. :D You are 100% correct. You should not have to overlook any of those things, let alone all three.

 

Good luck, and I hope you get some satisfaction from the Dealership! :beerchug:

I am confused...doc fee CANNOT be charged on any A, X, Z plan otherwise Ford Motor credit kicks the deal back...full stop, NO deviations, i know this as i recently had a deal ( X Plan ) sent back due to a 55 dollar doc fee, deal came back and Ford required a copy of the check sent back to the customer BEFORE they would fund the deal.....

[bbf2530]

I am confused...doc fee CANNOT be charged on any A, X, Z plan otherwise Ford Motor credit kicks the deal back...full stop, NO deviations, i know this as i recently had a deal ( X Plan ) sent back due to a 55 dollar doc fee, deal came back and Ford required a copy of the check sent back to the customer BEFORE they would fund the deal.....

 

Hi deanh. :D You are correct, to a certain extent. Dealers are not allowed to charge these fees, Ford audits a percentage of A/X/Z Plan purchase deals, but not all. So they can not and do not catch all dishonest Dealerships, not even most. Just like any other purchase, we, as the buyer, always have to look out for our own best interest, not rely on someone else. Don't get me wrong, I wish it wasn't like this, but it is the reality of the situation. There are honest Dealerships, and honest salesmen out there, but it sometimes takes some work to find them! More work than it should, in an ideal world.

 

I would make the analogy to speeding. Speeding is not allowed, it is against the law. The police will catch a certain amount of speeders, but most will get away with it. Therefore, most people calculate the risk of getting caught, and speed anyway. Same with Dealers and adding fees to A/X/Z Plan purchases.

 

I have read your posts deanh, and know that you are an intelligent and thoughtful forum member. So I also would give these personal experience examples: Over the past 16 years, I have assisted over 30 family members or friends on A/X/Z Plan purchases. The great majority of those sales, I have gone with the person to the Dealership. Only twice, did a Dealership not try to charge a "Documentation Fee" on those sales. When told that they could not charge the fee, 75% of those Dealerships still argued that they "had to", until threatened with a no sale walk out. Then they "checked with" the "expert in the back office", came back and stated, "Gee, sorry, you are right, Ford must have recently changed the rules!". If they thought they would not get away with it, they wouldn't do it.

 

Since Ford does not audit every A/X/Z Plan sale, it is unfortunately, therefore up to the buyer to be educated as to the A/X/Z Plan process, and to keep the Dealer honest.

 

In this case, blwnsmoke decided he wanted the truck more than the $299 Doc fee. (I am not making a judgement, just paraphrasing his own words).

 

Unfortunately, on top of the $299 Doc fee, they then added a $199 etching fee, purposely hidden paint damage, etc, etc. Which gets me back to the lesson of: If the Dealer does not deal honestly from the beginning (in this case charging a prohibited Documentation Fee), either make them do what is right or walk out. If you allow them to rip you off from the start, you can rest assured they will pile it on now that you have given them the chance.

 

I still hope blwnsmoke can get some sort of satisfaction from this mess. Good luck all! :beerchug:

Edited May 15, 2007 by bbf2530

[Deanh]

Hi deanh. :D You are correct, to a certain extent. Dealers are not allowed to charge these fees, Ford audits a percentage of A/X/Z Plan purchase deals, but not all. So they can not and do not catch all dishonest Dealerships, not even most. Just like any other purchase, we always have to look out for our own best interest, not rely on someone else. Don't get me wrong, I wish it wasn't like this, but it is the reality of the situation.

 

I would make the analogy to speeding. Speeding is not allowed, it is against the law. The police will catch a certain amount of speeders, but most will get away with it. Therefore, most people calculate the risk of getting caught, and speed anyway. Same with Dealers and adding fees to A/X/Z Plan purchases.

 

I have read your posts deanh, and know that you are an intelligent and thoughtful forum member. So I also would explain it this way. Over the past 16 years, I have assisted over 30 family members or friends on A/X/Z Plan purchases. The great majority of those sales, I have gone with the person to the Dealership. Only once, did a Dealership not try to charge a "Documentation Fee" on those sales. When told that they could not charge the fee, 75% of those Dealerships still argued that they "had to", until threatened with a no sale walk out. Then they "checked with" the "expert in the back office", came back and stated, "Gee, sorry, you are right, Ford must have recently changed the rules!". If they thought they would not get away with it, they wouldn't do it.

 

Since Ford does not audit every A/X/Z Plan sale, it is unfortunately, therefore up to the buyer to be educated as to the A/X/Z Plan process, and to keep the Dealer honest.

 

In this case, blwnsmoke decided he wanted the truck more than the $299 Doc fee. (I am not making a judgement, just paraphrasing his own words).

 

Unfortunately, on top of the $299 Doc fee, they then added a $199 etching fee, purposely hidden paint damage, etc, etc. Which gets me back to the lesson of: If the Dealer does not deal honestly from the beginning (in this case charging a prohibited Documentation Fee), either make them do what is right or walk out. If you allow them to rip you off from the start, you can rest assured they will pile it on now that you have given them the chance.

 

I still hope blwnsmoke can get some sort of satisfaction from this mess. Good luck all! :beerchug:

I hope so too, i would think a call to Xplan headquarters may help if he can get documentation proving that doc fees are NOT to be charged....I dare say with that in hand if push came to shove that the dealer principle would lean to the correct side of his franchaise agreement....etch a glass????? man that IS pre-historic....but is considered an aftermarket item...which NEEDS to be signed for by the customer, if his john Hancock is on the contract he may not have a leg to stand on unfortunately....these sorts of practices make me shudder, it is this type of BS that burdens others with reputations they don't deserve...

[blwnsmoke]

I hope so too, i would think a call to Xplan headquarters may help if he can get documentation proving that doc fees are NOT to be charged....I dare say with that in hand if push came to shove that the dealer principle would lean to the correct side of his franchaise agreement....etch a glass????? man that IS pre-historic....but is considered an aftermarket item...which NEEDS to be signed for by the customer, if his john Hancock is on the contract he may not have a leg to stand on unfortunately....these sorts of practices make me shudder, it is this type of BS that burdens others with reputations they don't deserve...

 

Well I wrote a long letter to the owner of the dealership (general sales manager). I'm sure he was forwarned about me after requesting his number and email address. The email is quite long.. but wanted to make sure I get all the details in it. I hope that he will take the time to read the whole thing. They are all probably standing there awaiting a complaint from me.

 

For those who are interested in it, here is the email I wrote (I removed the last names):

 

 

David,

 

My name is X and I recently purchased the 2007 F250 Harley that you had in your show room. I’m sure by now you have been informed about my issues/complaints and warned that I would be contacting you. By no means do I wish to waste your time but I do feel that I should voice both my happiness as well as displeasure with your dealership. I will attempt to make this as brief as possible as I’m sure you are a busy person.

 

 

 

First off, I want to give praise to Jim for most of the dealings that I have had with him. He has been a standup guy, quick to reply and I think he is somewhat stuck in the middle of this. With that said, I would like to turn this to the issues that I have thus far.

 

 

 

My first issue is during the conversation regarding the credit app and the fees associated with the purchase of the truck. I attempted to get the X plan pricing on the truck in which I was originally told that the dealership would not honor the X plan pricing being the rarity of this truck. From what I was told, the price I was paying was less then $300 above X plan pricing. Jim had stated on the phone that they would actually make more money back from ford if they gave me the X-plan. It was then my suggestion that if I couldn’t get a better price, then give me the X-plan, drop the value of my trade the same amount so you are not out any money and yet you would increase the reimbursement from Ford. I am a business person and I have no issue with one trying to make more money if the end result is the same on my end. This was agreed upon and my X-plan pin was submitted into ford and approved.

 

 

 

The conversation then turned to the 2 fees associated with the truck. These included a $299 doc fee and a $199 VIN etch fee. I questioned the $299 doc fee in which I was told that the doc fee couldn’t be waived because it is a Connecticut law that requires you to charge this fee. I was even told that the he has to pay the doc fee as well on all A, X and Z pricing.

 

 

 

Well I have researched this and found that I was deliberately lied to regarding this doc fee. There is no CT law that states a dealership has to charge a documentation fee. On top of this, Ford Partner’s website states specifically,

 

 

 

11. Can I be charged a "document fee" (doc fee) by my dealer?

 

No. Fees for document preparation or similar administrative services are not allowed.* If the dealer charges you a documentary fee please call 1-800-348-7709 and report the issue.

 

 

 

 

I have not called the 800 number to report this issue as I would like to get this resolved between the two of us.

 

 

 

The 2nd issue that I have is the $199 charge for the VIN etching. When I looked over all the glass on the truck, I could not find 1 VIN etch in the glass. I had taken some pictures of the glass to send to Jim to find out where exactly this VIN etching is that I got charged for. It was at that time that I noticed a long scratch in the driver’s side front glass. Jim stated that this was a known issue and normally caused by something inside the door or possibly the window motor and would be submitted for approval to get it replaced. I emailed Jim yesterday asking for him to take a picture of the VIN etching and email me the picture so I can see where it is if in fact it was done. Jim then responded stating that it hadn’t been done (why was I charged for it?) and that it would be done tomorrow (now today). I requested for the VIN etching to not be done. This is an option that I would have never opted to purchase in the event it was an option for me. It clearly wasn’t an option since I was told it already has it and therefore I’m being billed for it.

 

 

 

With these 2 issues, I am out $498 for fees/services that I shouldn’t be charged for.

 

 

 

My 3rd issue is the paint chips that I feel were deliberately covered up. The day after I took my truck home I removed the dealership sticker that was put on the tail gate. No offense to your dealership but I do not put stickers or advertisements on my vehicles. I like a nice clean look to it if you will. After peeling it off with ease, there were 3 paint chips there. I feel these chips were covered by this sticker on purpose so one would not see them since there was no paint residue on the sticker. This is the main reason that the truck is back at the dealership. I again want to give kudos to Jim for jumping on this issue extremely quickly to get it resolved and make me happy. So here I am with a truck I”ve had for 1 week and it has now been back at your dealership going on 5 days.

 

 

 

However, although I am pleased with many things, I am very dissatisfied and feel duped by your dealership. Between the covering up of the paint chips, the $199 VIN etching that in my eyes was not done which was originally confirmed by Jim when asked to take a picture of it and email me, the $299 doc fee that ford says you can’t charge me and lastly being lied to saying that it was a CT state law that I must be charged the doc fee.

 

 

 

I emailed Jim requesting the refund of the VIN etching in which I requested the interest on it. I realize after some thought that the interest is not something that is reasonable however I do feel a refund of the doc fee that shouldn’t have been charged of $299 and a refund of the VIN etch fee for $199 to be made whole again is reasonable and is warranted. Jim replied back to me in a rather abrupt and rude email. The email had an offensive tone to it and in my opinion was basically stating that hid things from your staff in dealing with my trade in. I do not appreciate someone telling me that I do not take care of my vehicles (poor maintenance).

 

 

 

I greatly appreciate the time you took to read this and look forward to a reply"

[Deanh]

Well I wrote a long letter to the owner of the dealership (general sales manager). I'm sure he was forwarned about me after requesting his number and email address. The email is quite long.. but wanted to make sure I get all the details in it. I hope that he will take the time to read the whole thing. They are all probably standing there awaiting a complaint from me.

 

For those who are interested in it, here is the email I wrote (I removed the last names):

David,

 

My name is X and I recently purchased the 2007 F250 Harley that you had in your show room. I’m sure by now you have been informed about my issues/complaints and warned that I would be contacting you. By no means do I wish to waste your time but I do feel that I should voice both my happiness as well as displeasure with your dealership. I will attempt to make this as brief as possible as I’m sure you are a busy person.

 

 

 

First off, I want to give praise to Jim for most of the dealings that I have had with him. He has been a standup guy, quick to reply and I think he is somewhat stuck in the middle of this. With that said, I would like to turn this to the issues that I have thus far.

 

 

 

My first issue is during the conversation regarding the credit app and the fees associated with the purchase of the truck. I attempted to get the X plan pricing on the truck in which I was originally told that the dealership would not honor the X plan pricing being the rarity of this truck. From what I was told, the price I was paying was less then $300 above X plan pricing. Jim had stated on the phone that they would actually make more money back from ford if they gave me the X-plan. It was then my suggestion that if I couldn’t get a better price, then give me the X-plan, drop the value of my trade the same amount so you are not out any money and yet you would increase the reimbursement from Ford. I am a business person and I have no issue with one trying to make more money if the end result is the same on my end. This was agreed upon and my X-plan pin was submitted into ford and approved.

 

 

 

The conversation then turned to the 2 fees associated with the truck. These included a $299 doc fee and a $199 VIN etch fee. I questioned the $299 doc fee in which I was told that the doc fee couldn’t be waived because it is a Connecticut law that requires you to charge this fee. I was even told that the he has to pay the doc fee as well on all A, X and Z pricing.

 

 

 

Well I have researched this and found that I was deliberately lied to regarding this doc fee. There is no CT law that states a dealership has to charge a documentation fee. On top of this, Ford Partner’s website states specifically,

 

 

 

11. Can I be charged a "document fee" (doc fee) by my dealer?

 

No. Fees for document preparation or similar administrative services are not allowed.* If the dealer charges you a documentary fee please call 1-800-348-7709 and report the issue.

I have not called the 800 number to report this issue as I would like to get this resolved between the two of us.

 

 

 

The 2nd issue that I have is the $199 charge for the VIN etching. When I looked over all the glass on the truck, I could not find 1 VIN etch in the glass. I had taken some pictures of the glass to send to Jim to find out where exactly this VIN etching is that I got charged for. It was at that time that I noticed a long scratch in the driver’s side front glass. Jim stated that this was a known issue and normally caused by something inside the door or possibly the window motor and would be submitted for approval to get it replaced. I emailed Jim yesterday asking for him to take a picture of the VIN etching and email me the picture so I can see where it is if in fact it was done. Jim then responded stating that it hadn’t been done (why was I charged for it?) and that it would be done tomorrow (now today). I requested for the VIN etching to not be done. This is an option that I would have never opted to purchase in the event it was an option for me. It clearly wasn’t an option since I was told it already has it and therefore I’m being billed for it.

 

 

 

With these 2 issues, I am out $498 for fees/services that I shouldn’t be charged for.

 

 

 

My 3rd issue is the paint chips that I feel were deliberately covered up. The day after I took my truck home I removed the dealership sticker that was put on the tail gate. No offense to your dealership but I do not put stickers or advertisements on my vehicles. I like a nice clean look to it if you will. After peeling it off with ease, there were 3 paint chips there. I feel these chips were covered by this sticker on purpose so one would not see them since there was no paint residue on the sticker. This is the main reason that the truck is back at the dealership. I again want to give kudos to Jim for jumping on this issue extremely quickly to get it resolved and make me happy. So here I am with a truck I”ve had for 1 week and it has now been back at your dealership going on 5 days.

 

 

 

However, although I am pleased with many things, I am very dissatisfied and feel duped by your dealership. Between the covering up of the paint chips, the $199 VIN etching that in my eyes was not done which was originally confirmed by Jim when asked to take a picture of it and email me, the $299 doc fee that ford says you can’t charge me and lastly being lied to saying that it was a CT state law that I must be charged the doc fee.

 

 

 

I emailed Jim requesting the refund of the VIN etching in which I requested the interest on it. I realize after some thought that the interest is not something that is reasonable however I do feel a refund of the doc fee that shouldn’t have been charged of $299 and a refund of the VIN etch fee for $199 to be made whole again is reasonable and is warranted. Jim replied back to me in a rather abrupt and rude email. The email had an offensive tone to it and in my opinion was basically stating that hid things from your staff in dealing with my trade in. I do not appreciate someone telling me that I do not take care of my vehicles (poor maintenance).

 

 

 

I greatly appreciate the time you took to read this and look forward to a reply"

question...you were X plan corrct and had your pin?...if not...(which I was led to beleive) that doc fee CAN be charged.........excessive at what you were charged, $55 here.....as for your trade, thats a grey area...sight unseen is risky from the dealers standpoint due to the fact that most customers beleive their cars to be cream -puffs....what they should have done is give you a range....best case and worst case scenarios can vary 3 grand....lot of scenarios here, not helped by your distance from the issues

[bbf2530]

Hi blwnsmoke. :D I'm feeling the pain with you. I am extremely interested in how/whether the Dealership addresses your concerns. Please keep us updated on any/all news concerning your Dealership issues.

 

Best of luck! :beerchug:

 

PS - Hi Dean, I was typing as you were posting your last reply to Blwnsmoke's letter to the Dealer Principle. Concerning your question as to whether it was actually an X-Plan sale, Blwnsmoke states in his letter to the Dealer Principle that:

 

"It was then my suggestion that if I couldn’t get a better price, then give me the X-plan, drop the value of my trade the same amount so you are not out any money and yet you would increase the reimbursement from Ford. I am a business person and I have no issue with one trying to make more money if the end result is the same on my end. This was agreed upon and my X-plan pin was submitted into ford and approved."

So according to his info, it was an X-Plan sale. I know, as this goes on, I'm getting confused too! :stats:

Edited May 15, 2007 by bbf2530

[Deanh]

Hi blwnsmoke. :D I'm feeling the pain with you. I am extremely interested in how/whether the Dealership addresses your concerns. Please keep us updated on any/all news concerning your Dealership issues.

 

Best of luck! :beerchug:

 

PS - Hi Dean, I was typing as you were posting your last reply to Blwnsmoke's letter to the Dealer Principle. Concerning your question as to whether it was actually an X-Plan sale, Blwnsmoke states in his letter to the Dealer Principle that:

 

"It was then my suggestion that if I couldn’t get a better price, then give me the X-plan, drop the value of my trade the same amount so you are not out any money and yet you would increase the reimbursement from Ford. I am a business person and I have no issue with one trying to make more money if the end result is the same on my end. This was agreed upon and my X-plan pin was submitted into ford and approved."

So according to his info, it was an X-Plan sale. I know, as this goes on, I'm getting confused too! :stats:

then NO doc fee...PERIOD....once it gets into funding ( presumably thru FMCC ) deal will be kicked back.....dealer will not get funded and their is only one way to rectify...new contract SANS doc fee....

[bbf2530]

I think the dealer is screwing with you because of the distance between you. If this had been your hometown dealer, they probably would not have been such jerks.

 

Why didn't you try to get your local dealer to do a dealer trade to get the truck instead of driving all that way?

 

Hey Pioneer! :D Please forgive my presumption at answering the question you posed to blwnsmoke. He states in an earlier post that his local Dealership offered him $4,000 less for his trade in. Hell, I'm lazy, and even I would have driven to the other Dealership for $4,000.

 

It's getting hard to keep up with the numbers without a program!

[Deanh]

Hey Pioneer! :D Please forgive my presumption at answering the question you posed to blwnsmoke. He states in an earlier post that his local Dealership offered him $4,000 less for his trade in. Hell, I'm lazy, and even I would have driven to the other Dealership for $4,000.

 

It's getting hard to keep up with the numbers without a program!

now its starting to make more sense...4000 less...because THEY actually saw it.....eeeeeek! That is a huge swing.....

[bbf2530]

then NO doc fee...PERIOD....once it gets into funding ( presumably thru FMCC ) deal will be kicked back.....dealer will not get funded and their is only one way to rectify...new contract SANS doc fee....

 

Hi Dean. :D As I stated in my earlier post to you (#6, sheesh, seems like a month ago! ), in an ideal world, the deal will be kicked back (as in your example). Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. If we did, no Dealers would try to charge the disallowed Doc fees, as they would be afraid of being caught and reprimanded by Ford. In this case, a dishonest Dealer knows that Ford can not/does not, audit every A/X/Z/Plan sale and is betting they will not be caught by Ford (as in my 30 odd examples).

 

In point of fact, one forum member whom I assisted with an X-Plan PIN, who lives out of my state, ran into a similar problem. Dealer refused to take off the Doc Fee, and his wife said just buy the car! Well, once the little woman spoke, he had no choice but to stop arguing about the fee. The deal was never kicked back. Ford relies on the customer to police the Dealer. Ford even states as much in the Employee A/X/Z Plan website.

 

Let's face it, if the Dealer thought there was a good chance they would have to rewrite the deal, they would have taken the Doc Fee off when challenged in the first place.

 

Instead of us debating it back and forth, we can wait and see what happens now that blwnsmoke has notified the Dealer Principle. He should also notify Ford through the A/X/Z Plan Customer Service number (as you told him earlier). Heck, I hope I am wrong and Ford does kick it back, at least then we know someone is doing their job, right?

 

Please believe me Dean. As I have stated before, I know you are a long time and helpful poster on these forums, so please, I hope you are taking this all in the spirit intended (not as an argument, but a well intentioned discussion) The only way we will know what will happen, is to wait and see what happens.

 

Good luck, blwnsmoke! :beerchug:

Edited May 15, 2007 by bbf2530

[Deanh]

Hi Dean. :D As I stated in my earlier post to you (#6, sheesh, seems like a month ago! ), in an ideal world, the deal will be kicked back (as in your example). Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. If we did, no Dealers would try to charge the disallowed Doc fees, as they would be afraid of being caught and reprimanded by Ford. In this case, a dishonest Dealer knows that Ford can not/does not, audit every A/X/Z/Plan sale and is betting they will not be caught by Ford (as in my 30 odd examples).

 

In point of fact, one forum member whom I assisted with an X-Plan PIN, who lives out of my state, ran into a similar problem. Dealer refused to take off the Doc Fee, and his wife said just buy the car! Well, once the little woman spoke, he had no choice but to stop arguing about the fee. The deal was never kicked back. Ford relies on the customer to police the Dealer. Ford even states as much in the Employee A/X/Z Plan website.

 

Let's face it, if the Dealer thought there was a good chance they would have to rewrite the deal, they would have taken the Doc Fee off when challenged in the first place.

 

Instead of us debating it back and forth, we can wait and see what happens now that blwnsmoke has notified the Dealer Principle. He should also notify Ford through the A/X/Z Plan Customer Service number (as you told him earlier). Heck, I hope I am wrong and Ford does kick it back, at least then we know someone is doing their job, right?

 

Please believe me Dean. As I have stated before, I know you are a long time and helpful poster on these forums, so please, I hope you are taking this all in the spirit intended (not as an argument, but a well intentioned discussion) The only way we will know what will happen, is to wait and see what happens.

 

Good luck, blwnsmoke! :beerchug:

no argument here...annoyance at dealers like this.....my guess is once they actually saw the trade they realized they had screwed up BIG time......and trying desperately to cut their losses...if one place is 4k more than another there is DEFINITELY a problem.....

[Deanh]

Exactly. I hope the extra money was worth the headache to both parties.

the phrase "High ball the trade" comes to mind.....when there is THAT much discrepency between two dealers someones nose is growing and the customer MUST sense something is wrong but STILL go's to the place where he benefits the most.....classic old school selling techniques, sales person probably still wearing beltless plaid trousers, cole hann two tone golf shoe look alikes, slicked back hair wearing either Brut or Old Spice, thick tinted prescription glasses and a pocket pal....

[bbf2530]

.....classic old school selling techniques, sales person probably still wearing beltless plaid trousers, cole hann two tone golf shoe look alikes, slicked back hair wearing either Brut or Old Spice, thick tinted prescription glasses and a pocket pal....

 

 

Well spoken, Dean!

Edited May 16, 2007 by bbf2530

[blwnsmoke]

 

Well spoken, Dean!

 

 

bbf.. lol.. thanks for answering all the questions for everyone..

 

Now to clear up a few things regarding my trade.

 

Kbb says my trade is worth $27,125.. Retail it says it's worth $32,200

 

NADA says my trade is worth $27,225.. Retail it says it's worth $31,425

 

The Ford dealership that I was local to low balled my trade.. I had 2 other dealerships.. in fact they were GM dealerships which one offered $25,600 and the other offered $26,700 and that was them seeing it and test driving it.

 

My truck was in very good condition.. yes it needed tires but that was it. All services were recorded in the service manual.. no dents or dings anywhere in the body/paint. I shampooed the interior twice a year.. waxed it twice a year and washed it 1-2 times a week every week. I take very good care of it. When the dealer asked what I wanted, I told them the figures the GM dealership gave me and said ideally I wanted 27k for it. Ford would only give me $23k..

 

 

You take the $27k they gave me, add $500 for tires.. Granted I'm sure they will still do it but oil/filter, fuel filter, air filter were all changed within 2k miles.. tranny had been changed and not due yet.. brakes were fine so there was really no maintenance to do. Just throw some tires, wash it and recon the interior and it's good to sell. Truck was still under the 5yr/100k warranty so no concerns there either.

 

Also, as far as them realizing they made a mistake on the trade, they didn't even go look at it until after I signed the paperwork. I pulled up, walked in, sat down, signed the paperwork.. got up, emptied my truck and drove off in the new one.

[Deanh]

bbf.. lol.. thanks for answering all the questions for everyone..

 

Now to clear up a few things regarding my trade.

 

Kbb says my trade is worth $27,125.. Retail it says it's worth $32,200

 

NADA says my trade is worth $27,225.. Retail it says it's worth $31,425

 

The Ford dealership that I was local to low balled my trade.. I had 2 other dealerships.. in fact they were GM dealerships which one offered $25,600 and the other offered $26,700 and that was them seeing it and test driving it.

 

My truck was in very good condition.. yes it needed tires but that was it. All services were recorded in the service manual.. no dents or dings anywhere in the body/paint. I shampooed the interior twice a year.. waxed it twice a year and washed it 1-2 times a week every week. I take very good care of it. When the dealer asked what I wanted, I told them the figures the GM dealership gave me and said ideally I wanted 27k for it. Ford would only give me $23k..

You take the $27k they gave me, add $500 for tires.. Granted I'm sure they will still do it but oil/filter, fuel filter, air filter were all changed within 2k miles.. tranny had been changed and not due yet.. brakes were fine so there was really no maintenance to do. Just throw some tires, wash it and recon the interior and it's good to sell. Truck was still under the 5yr/100k warranty so no concerns there either.

 

Also, as far as them realizing they made a mistake on the trade, they didn't even go look at it until after I signed the paperwork. I pulled up, walked in, sat down, signed the paperwork.. got up, emptied my truck and drove off in the new one.

man they are idiots....ACV on that truck is between 1500-2000 BACK of kelly wholesale.....true numbers, but different states may value certain vehicles more than others....and the FLIP side is if you pay too much for mine than i can show you something more along the lines of what I think you WISH to see...X plan negates that completely....it becomes wholesale for the new and basically what they are going for in local auctions for yours...usually as I said 1500 -2000 back on pickups....dependent on re-con amounts to make it front line ready...I always tell people if they want to find out the true worth of their trade...call places and ask for a buy bid...and tell them you already purchased something...the honesty is BRUTAL.....and funny...never had a customer leave because they thought they were getting too much for their trade.....LOL!

Edited May 16, 2007 by Deanh

[blwnsmoke]

Just wanted to give a partial update. I have yet to hear back from the general manager however I did call up the Ford corp. number regarding the fee. I explained to them that I was charged the fee, I was told that it was a CT state law when I questioned it and through my own research found that they lied to me about it.

 

This very nice woman stated that I should get in touch with the general manager regarding this and let them know it's not something that should be charged.. and instruct him to call the 800 number that I just called if they will not refund my money. I will wait through tomorrow morning and then call him on the phone if I do not get a response by email.

[TheLemon]

Just wanted to give a partial update. I have yet to hear back from the general manager however I did call up the Ford corp. number regarding the fee. I explained to them that I was charged the fee, I was told that it was a CT state law when I questioned it and through my own research found that they lied to me about it.

 

This very nice woman stated that I should get in touch with the general manager regarding this and let them know it's not something that should be charged.. and instruct him to call the 800 number that I just called if they will not refund my money. I will wait through tomorrow morning and then call him on the phone if I do not get a response by email.

 

 

Feel free to post your story on www.fordlemon.com

 

One more evil story showing how crooked Ford and its dealerships are!

[Deanh]

Feel free to post your story on www.fordlemon.com

 

One more evil story showing how crooked Ford and its dealerships are!

only ever one side with the Lemon man......as bitter as his name suggests

Edited May 16, 2007 by Deanh

[Arniect]

Some suggestions from a Ct Yankee:

 

1. Call or better yet email the Ct DMV. I have found the one thing that can get action from a Ct dealer is the DMV.

 

2. Call the CT Attorney General's office, he is a huge publicity hound and a call from his office to the dealer could get action.

 

3. The Hartford Courant has a "Watchdog" that loves to go after this kind of stuff. email him at watchdog@courant.com

 

What dealer was this? A lot Ford dealers in CT. like anywhere else some good, some so-so and some real bad apples. It would not surprise me if this was one of dealers the locals know to stay away from.

[blwnsmoke]

Some suggestions from a Ct Yankee:

 

1. Call or better yet email the Ct DMV. I have found the one thing that can get action from a Ct dealer is the DMV.

 

2. Call the CT Attorney General's office, he is a huge publicity hound and a call from his office to the dealer could get action.

 

3. The Hartford Courant has a "Watchdog" that loves to go after this kind of stuff. email him at watchdog@courant.com

 

What dealer was this? A lot Ford dealers in CT. like anywhere else some good, some so-so and some real bad apples. It would not surprise me if this was one of dealers the locals know to stay away from.

 

 

I was trying to keep the dealerships name out of this but here is another update.

 

I emailed the general manager on 5/15/2007 and have yet to get a reply. I then called the GM on 5/17/07 and left a message. From what I can tell, the number I was given was a home phone number cause I got a regular answering machine.. left a message and still no phone call back.

 

Oh.. I got my truck back on Friday.. they drove it up and I do have the say the tailgate looks like it rolled right off the factory. However, I still can't find the VIN etching on any of the windows.. As far as I'm concerned, they still have $498 of my money.. no vin etching and no refund of the doc fee.

 

The dealership is Hammonasset Ford Lincoln Mercury on 188 & 199 Boston Post Rd. Madison, CT. 203-245-8828/800-201-4866

Edited May 21, 2007 by blwnsmoke

[blwnsmoke]

I have also just finished emailing the attorney general and I sent a link to this thread to the watchdog.

 

i just found the email address concerning dealers for the DMV so I have emailed them as well. Hopefully I will hear back and something can be done.

 

Lastly, I have also just filed a complaint with the BBB.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

Edited May 21, 2007 by blwnsmoke