Furious1Auto Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 davdog and chassisgrunt are correct! I do not want to deregulate medicine practice though, I want my doctor to be qualified! That's not what is driving up the cost of health care anyway, it's the insurance companies artificially inflating their premiums to generate profit! Ask your doctor, Doctors are required by law to carry Medical malpractice insurance to practice medicine! So the insurance companies have them over a barrel. So the doctors have to charge enough to cover not only their time and materials but, also their insurance. Now when you or your employer buy medical insurance you get raped, They give you every incentive they can not to have to file a claim on your over priced policy. They even try to dictate to doctors what procedures are medically necessary or not by refusing to pay if they determine there not! We need an insurance co-op for all business owners to start with the auto makers and be open to every business owners. Fuck insurance companies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 If they won't work or go to school to acquire a skill then cut off their ADC cash, food stamps, and medical! Thats what's not going to happen. The same people pushing for universal coverage are the same people that will never cut women and children off welfare. Many capable of working don't get any assistance anyway. You got a CDL. Congratulations. It took more than government money. It took relatively clean criminal history, clean urinalysis, at least a 10th grade education and effort on your part. You'd be surprised at how many people can't do any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Thats what's not going to happen. The same people pushing for universal coverage are the same people that will never cut women and children off welfare. Many capable of working don't get any assistance anyway. You got a CDL. Congratulations. It took more than government money. It took relatively clean criminal history, clean urinalysis, at least a 10th grade education and effort on your part. You'd be surprised at how many people can't do any of that. Thanks for the insult, it takes a little more than that. The point is that they paid for the schooling, They will pay for many other trades almost anything you can think of! Why the hell should our tax money do for people that won't do for their selves! Your right though some lack the capacity that's another reason why I have a problem with illegal immigration. Where are uneducated people supposed to work if all of the minimal labor jobs are gone? Edited July 10, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks for the insult, it takes a little more than that. The point is that they paid for the schooling, They will pay for many other trades almost anything you can think of! Why the hell should our tax money do for people that won't do for their selves! I was not trying to insult you. Sorry, that was never my intention. My wife got her CDL (which I paid 5k for) so I know how much shit went she had to do. Getting a CDL is a major accomplishment. An even bigger accomplishment is keeping it. You know what I mean. Many out there can't even run a cash registrar. For some, getting out of bed is a major accomplishment. You laugh. After years in the system, some people can't do that on a regular schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 davdog and chassisgrunt are correct! I do not want to deregulate medicine practice though, I want my doctor to be qualified! That's not what is driving up the cost of health care anyway, it's the insurance companies artificially inflating their premiums to generate profit! Ask your doctor, Doctors are required by law to carry Medical malpractice insurance to practice medicine! So the insurance companies have them over a barrel. So the doctors have to charge enough to cover not only their time and materials but, also their insurance. Now when you or your employer buy medical insurance you get raped, They give you every incentive they can not to have to file a claim on your over priced policy. They even try to dictate to doctors what procedures are medically necessary or not by refusing to pay if they determine there not! We need an insurance co-op for all business owners to start with the auto makers and be open to every business owners. Fuck insurance companies!? I think we need to regulate malpractice. The highest award ever given in Canada is $10 million. The US legal system regularly gives out awards $10 million or higher. The highest US award is $140 million. We are forcing doctors to practice defensive medicine. They must order every test in the book just to cover themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I do not want to deregulate medicine practice though, I want my doctor to be qualified! That's not what is driving up the cost of health care anyway, it's the insurance companies artificially inflating their premiums to generate profit! Ask your doctor, Doctors are required by law to carry Medical malpractice insurance to practice medicine! So the insurance companies have them over a barrel. So the doctors have to charge enough to cover not only their time and materials but, also their insurance. What are you trying to say?? If it's deregulated, don't you trust yourself to pick out a well qualified doctor??? Ask my doctor? On one hand you say don't deregulate, then you say they have to charge enough to cover malpractice insurance(rising prices) which is a Federal Regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 What are you trying to say?? If it's deregulated, don't you trust yourself to pick out a well qualified doctor??? Ask my doctor? On one hand you say don't deregulate, then you say they have to charge enough to cover malpractice insurance(rising prices) which is a Federal Regulation. No! I didn't imply to deregulate medicine. I'm telling you that insures are extorting doctors and are nothing but been counters who add no value to the service and reap all of the benefits. I want my doctor to be insured but, not raped so that I can't afford his services! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I think we need to regulate malpractice. The highest award ever given in Canada is $10 million. The US legal system regularly gives out awards $10 million or higher. The highest US award is $140 million. We are forcing doctors to practice defensive medicine. They must order every test in the book just to cover themselves. Bushed capped malpractice suits in 05' and health care premiums have not come down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 No! I didn't imply to deregulate medicine. I'm telling you that insures are extorting doctors and are nothing but been counters who add no value to the service and reap all of the benefits. I want my doctor to be insured but, not raped so that I can't afford his services! I did'nt say that's what you implied. I just asked you if it were deregulated could you choose a decent doctor. Most politicians don't know anymore than an average informed citizen, yet you want them to make choices for you. If your spending your own money you should take the time to research things. Politicians only know what the lobbyist that is giving them money tells them. Also as you tell me that insurers are raping doctors you need to realize that it's a Government regulation that they have it. Take that away and when doctors start dropping insurers for cheaper ones and there is a real open free market things would change. Right know it's a regulation and the insurers know this so they charge higher prices knowing that doctors have to have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Retracted Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I did'nt say that's what you implied. I just asked you if it were deregulated could you choose a decent doctor. Most politicians don't know anymore than an average informed citizen, yet you want them to make choices for you. If your spending your own money you should take the time to research things. Politicians only know what the lobbyist that is giving them money tells them. Also as you tell me that insurers are raping doctors you need to realize that it's a Government regulation that they have it. Take that away and when doctors start dropping insurers for cheaper ones and there is a real open free market things would change. Right know it's a regulation and the insurers know this so they charge higher prices knowing that doctors have to have it. Are you suggesting that Doctors pay for suits without insurance. What protections to the patient would you offer? Your right that's what stopping insurers from being competitive, they don't have to be right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Are you suggesting that Doctors pay for suits without insurance. What protections to the patient would you offer? Your right that's what stopping insurers from being competitive, they don't have to be right now! No that's not what I'm suggesting. I did not say that. I said it should be a free market. First protection is that you would look into who you choose(not just the choices they give you). Second is that after it's a free market it would be cheaper. Also as far as protections, those are for the people who need them. I'm feeling like I could find my own protections by finding out about who I goto. Who do you rely on to protect you as you go through life and do whatever you do? As far as stopping insurers from being competative your wrong. The present situation is that doctors are, under regulation to get insurance. Insurers know this and can charge higher prices and get them because doctors have to have it. Change the situation as to they don't and insurers will quickly change there attitudes trying to offer the best prices to get more customers. Edited July 11, 2007 by fmccap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) No that's not what I'm suggesting. I did not say that. I said it should be a free market. First protection is that you would look into who you choose(not just the choices they give you). Second is that after it's a free market it would be cheaper. As far as stopping insurers from being competative your wrong. The present situation is that doctors are, under regulation to get insurance. Insurers know this and can charge higher prices and get them because doctors have to have it. Change the situation as to they don't and insurers will quickly change there attitudes trying to offer the best prices to get more customers. I totally understand what your saying but, it is just like driving without auto insurance. What of the patient that really was injured as a result of surgery, by the one surgeon who was stupid enough not to carry insurance because it wasn't law? Not saying that we can't remove that regulation but there would have to be some other protection like a bond! Say a doctor or practice that maintains a cash bond for X amount of dollars maybe $3,000,000 or $5,000,000 would not have to carry insurance! Or maybe would have to carry insurance that would only cover gaps in a suit. Say the doctors bond is $5,000,000 and judgment against him is $5,020,000 and their insurance would only cover overages, you know the $20,000. This would be a feasible solution! In this case they should be able to find cheap coverage. Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 What of the patient that really was injured as a result of surgery, by the one surgeon who was stupid enough not to carry insurance because it wasn't law? Now is the doctor stupid for not carrying insurance or is that patient stupid for going to that doctor??????? Anything you do is a risk. Some may prefer to take that risk and some may not. If you take the risk you know the consequences, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Now is the doctor stupid for not carrying insurance or is that patient stupid for going to that doctor??????? Anything you do is a risk. Some may prefer to take that risk and some may not. If you take the risk you know the consequences, right? That is not a valid point because many surgeries are preformed without the consent of the patient, especially when there has been a car accident! Allot of times patients are admitted unconscious! What your insisting is that there should be no liability to the doctor. I'm not sue happy nor have I ever filed suit but, I'm not stupid either and accidents do happen at the patients expense physically!! Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 That is not a valid point because many surgeries are preformed without the consent of the patient, especially when there has been a car accident! Allot of times patients are admitted unconscious! What your insisting is that there should be no liability to the doctor. I'm not sue happy nor have I ever filed suit but, I'm not stupid either and accidents do happen at the patients expense physically!! Those are special situations that courts would take care of. What you are insisting is that there should be no liability to the patient, who has his own choice to make, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 If I buy a new car and get into an accident because it did'nt stop fast enough, considering GM makes a comparable car that has better braking, should I sue Ford?? All along it was my choice on what to buy. You'll say no, right. The same should go for doctors. If they want buisness they should promote themselves as being the best. In the end it's your choice. At the same time the courts should take care of people with malpractice suits. Just as they would with an auto company that has a defective auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Those are special situations that courts would take care of. What you are insisting is that there should be no liability to the patient, who has his own choice to make, right? How does a patient verify a doctors success when choosing a PCP or surgeon. When in a doctors care you should find comfort in his degree knowing that they are competent to perform his job. There needs to be this reasonable expectation. And if their incentive to be knowledgeable and confident enough to handle a procedure stems from fear of the potential liability then so be it. We can't have doctors who don't care! Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 How does a patient verify a doctors success when choosing a PCP or surgeon. When in a doctors care you should find comfort in his degree knowing that they are competent to perform his job. There needs to be this reasonable expectation. And if their incentive to be knowledgeable and confident enough to handle a procedure stems from fear of the potential liability then so be it. We can't have doctors who don't care! There could be more jobs because of this. Instead of Consumer Reports we can have Doctor Reports. You shall find comfort in him after you do your homework on him. I truely believe you would have more doctors who care because there livelyhood will depend on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Bushed capped malpractice suits in 05' and health care premiums have not come down! No they are not capped. The bill never made it out of the senate the 4 times the Republicans tried. Where are you getting your information from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) retracted! Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) No they are not capped. The bill never made it out of the senate the 4 times the Republicans tried. Where are you getting your information from? You may be right I remember reading the push from our local paper but didn't see the result. At that time I was not as computer savvy, or I would have sourced the results!! I thought it went through sorry. Well that's a good place to start! Even now running a search I can't find the results, just links to articles where bush was challenged by a child affected by bad medicine! Edited July 11, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hey Furious, here is a couple of good reads. The Truth About the Drug Companies By Marcia Angell, M.D. "The combined profits for the ten drug companies in the Fortune 500 ($35.9 billion) were more than the profits for all the other 490 businesses put together ($33.7 billion). Over the past two decades the pharmaceutical industry has moved very far from its original high purpose of discovering and producing useful new drugs. Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, this industry uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers, and the medical profession itself." Under The Influence 60 Minutes' Steve Kroft Reports On Drug Lobbyists' Role in Passing Bill That Keeps Drug Prices High If you have ever wondered why the cost of prescription drugs in the United States are the highest in the world or why it's illegal to import cheaper drugs from Canada or Mexico, you need look no further than the pharmaceutical lobby and its influence in Washington, D.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hey Furious, here is a couple of good reads. The Truth About the Drug Companies By Marcia Angell, M.D. Under The Influence 60 Minutes' Steve Kroft Reports On Drug Lobbyists' Role in Passing Bill That Keeps Drug Prices High Rotten bastards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Whether it is the insurance company, or the government, they are out to get you. I have never seen so many new diseases come out since these new advances in medical technology. You would figure there to be way less. A new disease means billions of dollars to the medical industry. Everyone is afraid to die, and will pay anything to avoid it. IT IS INEVITABLE. It is as inevitable as taxes. Quacks, or their sponsors will suck you dry on the promise of a longer life. I hear that the next world is better. You cast off that burned out frame, and get fitted with a brand new modern one. Just leave behind a few bucks and your loved ones will not miss you too much. They will be relieved that your suffering is over, and their partying is just beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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