Mr. Ford listen up!

[Howdy!!]

Ford management:

 

As a stock holder, customer and retiree I have the following to say. Ford wishes to reduce my Retiree benefits to cut costs. One reason being lack of sales. I called the Ford dealer on Wednesday and ask what time they open on Thursday morning, 9 AM I was told. 9:10 AM Thursday I walk in the dealership ready to purchase a new car. Not a sales person on the floor, receptionist tells me all sales people are in a meeting it will be another 10 to 15 minutes. If the door is open for business at 9 am they should at least have sales people on the floor to sell a car. If there is going to a 1/2 hour meeting that day, either open at 9:30 am or start the meeting at 8:30 am and be ready for the customer at 9 am. Maybe this is one reason Honda, Toyota, etc. have become a threat to Ford, they might be on the job to sell when they open. I for one am tired of hearing Ford cry the blues over poor sales and yet put up with dealers that don't seem to care if they sell a car or not. Not only selling but servicing as well. I took my 2005 car in with 6 warranty concerns, one was a recall. Three days later I get the call the car is ready to pick up. Two items, one being the recall out of six have been fixed. Sitting at the dealership I check the 4 remaining items not repaired and they do not function as they are suppose to. Dealer tells me they could not find any problems with them, yet I am sitting there showing them what's wrong. One of the items they did finally agree needed replacing. They told me they would order the part and call me. That was 6 weeks ago still no call. Mr. Ford do you have to wonder what the way forward is????? Start out by shipping the dealers cars that don't need repairs the first thing the customer gets them. Second get a system in place where when the dealer is required to make a repair they do it! Maybe first you better train them how to sell the product.

[ford4v429]

I kinda think Dealers are even bigger problem than ford knows...pick 10 'bad things' like root canals, stomach flu, 'dealing' on new car, etc, and I bet most folks would put dealing for new car in the top 5.

 

theres good dealers out there for sure- theres more 'not so good' and a few terrible ones too. I hope SOON as part of Fords restructuring that maybe communication between Ford and THE REAL customer become a possibility, and the 'see your dealer' agony can have some checks and balances...improper repairs, inadequate franchise representation of 'parent' company, dealers INSISTING on over sticker markups...this kind of stuff might let dealer operate on minimum staff responsibility, maximum profit gouging, but its a disservice to the Ford name. I for one do not understand the brickwalls between customer/dealer/factory that makes customer to factory access am impossibility. The root cause lies in 'defining the customer'. Is ford needing to sell to dealers, or actual buyers...for too long the dealer has been able to run rampant with no way for actual buyer to get any help if they are not performing. Ive called customer care a few times, and got absolutely nothing except -'you'll have to talk to your dealer' script read repeatedly.

 

I know theres some really good folks higher up the chain at ford that would help if they could- its not that hard to figure out contacts...all on fords site. Hopefully in the restructuring/redefining of Ford, some of these folks will get the chance to improve the system, hopefully even figure out a way for internet ordering to be initiated...I 'buy the car' at list and decide which dealer gets to take the deal maybe split markup between dealer/factory so dealer still gets a cut(for basically nothing but prep), better for ford, better for buyers that dont like visiting dealers, better for requiring dealers to try harder to win showroom shoppers.

 

I also believe EVERY SINGLE service visit should be polled by ford for satisfaction- could be an almost 'automated' spreadsheet type of thing that would automatically flag regional if big red flag pops up, or too many repeats pop up. Similarly, If a simple exchange fixes the problem, and its blatently obvious, Ford should not hound dealers/service crews to do things like reassemble known faulty assemblies for return evaluation, which means someone else has to tear it apart again...I read of such from a service tech on another forum, and just had to wonder...who is paying for all that shipping/labor? we all are. perhaps regional auditors could spotcheck 'defective' major components like engines/trans...and perhaps cheap plug in devices could be used to log things like ECM prom numbers from defective units...Ive also heard of dealers years back deliberately shorting out stuff swapped in hopes of repairing a probem, without risk of 'bad' part being found 'good' by Ford...a few too many 'dead'/'burnt' items would throw a flag on such practices.

 

Nobody wants to pay for anything- thats just how it works... only way to 'save' costs/customer satisfaction is to police the accuracy of whats being done. perhaps a rep seeing a burnt clutchpack, or spun bearing, and actually documenting the failure already disassembled would pay for this guys wages- and more...no paying to reassemble, ship disassemble, THEN DOCUMENT FAILURE...only drawback would be the junkyard area that would need to build up somewhere until rep looks it over...but I still think even dealers would likely rather put up a storage shed than deal with wasting time reassembling/handling obviously bad parts.

 

Internet buying would be a big kick in the pants for buyers...then the dealers get fight over your business...if they get it, maybe they treat you right, next time you deal face to face, they get the whole slice of the pie.

 

Getting someone like Kzinti involved with customer service layout would really be a plus...it dont cost much to talk to folks...but can easily cost a customer by NOT seeming concerned with their 'problem' whatever it might be. Kzinti posted some ideas on direct buying in here somewhere- he has a good feel for what we would like as buyers...

[exfordengineer]

You realize, of course, that Ford management (LL6 and above) do not ever actually deal with the dealer experience. I was one once. Once a year, you order your car through an on-line web site, you get an E-mail when it is ready and if it is broken, you drop it off at the Company garage for service. If they can't fix it that day, they get you a loaner until it is ready. You never deal with any of the cr-p that the average customer does. That is a crying shame! Also, you never see what happens to a car after more than 12-13 months. (Squeaks, rattles, windseals,....etc...)

 

Heck, as an exec (LL2 and above) you get a free car with free gas and free wash...new every six months or so.

 

Car problems and dealer problems won't likely get a good fix until this perk is eliminated.

[ford4v429]

You realize, of course, that Ford management (LL6 and above) do not ever actually deal with the dealer experience. I was one once. Once a year, you order your car through an on-line web site, you get an E-mail when it is ready and if it is broken, you drop it off at the Company garage for service. If they can't fix it that day, they get you a loaner until it is ready. You never deal with any of the cr-p that the average customer does. That is a crying shame! Also, you never see what happens to a car after more than 12-13 months. (Squeaks, rattles, windseals,....etc...)

 

Heck, as an exec (LL2 and above) you get a free car with free gas and free wash...new every six months or so.

 

Car problems and dealer problems won't likely get a good fix until this perk is eliminated.

 

Good info- thanks...maybe thats where some of the 'disconnect' developed... hey execs probably should be seen driving new fords, but perhaps they should have to go at least 1/2 hour from home every 6 months to visit a random dealer (and not wearing a suit) to pick one out/build on paper with a real dealer. I bet things would start changing quick- mostly at dealer levels.

[RangeRover]

Heck, as an exec (LL2 and above) you get a free car with free gas and free wash...new every six months or so.

 

Car problems and dealer problems won't likely get a good fix until this perk is eliminated.

 

 

The perks is not the problem. There are very few LL2 level employees compared to the many LL6 and below. Trust me I know LL level employees and very few are eligible for such perks.

 

As for the Big3/Dealer/Customer disconect blame your law makers. Ford and GM have tried in the past to retake control of dealerships and they were defeated. In fact, I am not sure if it is an official law but automanufacturers are not supposed to sell directly to the customer through dealerships. The National Auto Dealer Association is too powerful. Getting the best info and response from Dealers is not as easy as it sounds.------This is info I got from a GM Exec, I am sure there are embellishments in there but thats the jist of it.

[manufmanager]

You realize, of course, that Ford management (LL6 and above) do not ever actually deal with the dealer experience. I was one once. Once a year, you order your car through an on-line web site, you get an E-mail when it is ready and if it is broken, you drop it off at the Company garage for service. If they can't fix it that day, they get you a loaner until it is ready. You never deal with any of the cr-p that the average customer does. That is a crying shame! Also, you never see what happens to a car after more than 12-13 months. (Squeaks, rattles, windseals,....etc...)

 

Heck, as an exec (LL2 and above) you get a free car with free gas and free wash...new every six months or so.

 

Car problems and dealer problems won't likely get a good fix until this perk is eliminated.

 

 

I think that all LL2 and above, the people who set the direction in this company, should be forced to have their spouses go through the Ford Dealer buying experiance. And also have to take the car to a service department. Can you imaging when Mark Fields flies home to Florida on the weekend and his wife just spent six hours at their local dealership. The hell he will be in for that weekend will cause him to reassess relationships with our dealers.

[Guest Sixcav]

The dealerships are a huge factor in the problem I agree. When I purchased my Mustang I had to of course order it because of the popularity of the new Mustang. I specifically told them that I wanted tan cloth seats, not leather, because eventually I planned to replace the seats with something different. The car showed up with leather seats of course and I was told that they would absolutely not discount the cost of the seats, even though they shouldn't have ordered them to begin with. They said I could either buy the car at full list price or order another one. Yeah right, I waited six months for the first one. I think they accidentally ordered the leather seats and when the car showed up they figured I would either pay for it or they would sell the car to someone else. Additionally I put quite a bit of money down on this car and didn't even get the nickle tour around the dealership like I was supposed to. I signed the papers, they handed me my keys and bascially said get the heck outta here. With respect to the leather seats, the sales manager actually tried to tell me that they are at the mercy of Ford when it comes to ordering and sometimes that stuff just happens and they have no control over it. Do they really think I believe that? Do they really think I believe a couple of UAW guys on the line up in Michigan just out of the blue decided to put leather seats in a car that's supposed to have cloth seats? Get real. Yes the dealerships are a huge problem for Ford overall. The customer service is really bad.

[bystander]

You realize, of course, that Ford management (LL6 and above) do not ever actually deal with the dealer experience. I was one once. Once a year, you order your car through an on-line web site, you get an E-mail when it is ready and if it is broken, you drop it off at the Company garage for service. If they can't fix it that day, they get you a loaner until it is ready. You never deal with any of the cr-p that the average customer does. That is a crying shame! Also, you never see what happens to a car after more than 12-13 months. (Squeaks, rattles, windseals,....etc...)

 

Heck, as an exec (LL2 and above) you get a free car with free gas and free wash...new every six months or so.

 

Car problems and dealer problems won't likely get a good fix until this perk is eliminated.

 

This is a great suggestion. Ford's middle and upper management should be required to go through a dealership (just like they expect their paying customers to do) and should have to keep their vehicles for 2-3 years. By only keeping cars and trucks for one year and never setting foot on a showroom floor (or worse yet, in the dealer's service dept), Ford management is ignorant when it comes to the true customer ownership experience.

[ford4v429]

With respect to the leather seats, the sales manager actually tried to tell me that they are at the mercy of Ford when it comes to ordering and sometimes that stuff just happens and they have no control over it. Do they really think I believe that? Do they really think I believe a couple of UAW guys on the line up in Michigan just out of the blue decided to put leather seats in a car that's supposed to have cloth seats? Get real. Yes the dealerships are a huge problem for Ford overall. The customer service is really bad.

 

+1 for what pioneer said...they SHOULD have given you a DORA the next day, and they knew exactly what was ordered. Ive heard of 2 cars with mixed up seats getting out(so there HAD to be at least 4 if shipped in pairs) but order showed correct, somehow line got mixed up...one car had cloth front/leather rear, one had diff driver/pass seat. somewhere in 'themustangsource.com' forums theres some pics. if factory messed up, dealer would not have charged extra, as it would not have been documented. sounds to me that sales manager just trying to pull the wool over someones eyes, when you get your customer survey from ford, be sure to attach a letter to Mr. Giombetti - they are trying all they can to make things better, and really need to beat up on some of thes dealer practices, and get some uniform ordering requirements clarified as to what is dealer responsibility.

[Guest Sixcav]

I never saw any DORA guys. Don't even know what that is to be honest with you. I made the mistake of trusting my sales guy because he was a friend of mine. Needles to say I haven't spoken to him since I took delivery of the car. My good friend, yeah right. I did of course slame them on the customer satisfaction survey. I slammed them again when their own dealership level customer satisfaction rep called my a couple months after the sale. I even fired off a letter to the owner of the dealership. I might as well just take a piss in the wind because it did no good at all. They have made no effort to reconcile the situation. At one point I had called their parts department to get a price on a strut tower brace. I already had the part number. The guy in the parts department told me he didn't have info on the 06 models yet and that he would have to call me back. It doesn't matter of course because the 05 and 06 are mechanically identical with the exception of some sway bars. But I gave him my cell phone number, which I have with me 24/7. Never have heard back from that parts department. I'll never deal with that dealership again. They are a joke.

[ford4v429]

I never saw any DORA guys. Don't even know what that is to be honest with you.

 

Dealer Order Reciept Acknowledgement...they should have confirmed/had you look over and verify, just to prevent such a thing...

[bec5150]

Too many threads about unions, unamerican Honda buyers, product comparisons, etc. But I have, in the last 5 years, bought a new Ford and a new Honda and I can tell you the Ford and Honda compare about even. The Ranger I own has better paint and the gaps and such are spot on (thank you Edison). The Honda's paint isn't as good. IN fact, my wife liked the Honda better than an Escape but I didn't. I could have gotten an Escape and been well satisfied with the PRODUCT.

 

But the Dealer? I have tried three local Ford dealers and all of them SUCK!!! The Honda dealer does everything but sexual favors when I hit the door of the service department. By comparison, the Ford dealer makes me feel like I am going to court.

 

Forget the unions, forget the product for a moment. Folks ask why Toyota, with their sludgy engines, and Honda, with their substandard Civic (last gen and IMHO this gen), unibody truck, and "toaster" looking box (Element) can still increase sales. One word: DEALER!!!

 

Ford, FIX THE DEALER PROBLEM and everything else will fix itself. The product is there. The quality is there. The dealer and overall service after the sale is severely lacking.

 

And before anyone flames me with my brother said this bad thing about a Honda dealer, understand I am one of the few on here that has bought BOTH new in the last 5 years so I would KNOW!!

[kevinb120]

Damn you guys need to see ME :P Our dealer is the easiest I have ever seen to deal with. I HATED working for Toyota. Most of them just make up stories and actually say shit like, oh American cars suck!, and yet people still buy from them like its a drug(they all call their Toyota customers 'the Lay Downs'. They sell everything on the internet under invoice and crush people in the finance office and aftermarket. So the salespeople don't make shit on most deals and its a revolving door with hardly any truely trained professionals. The Finance managers clean house though. I really couldnt stand it there, and just the way the customer's bought that shit no matter what was said made me ill after all the work and training it takes to sell a domestic car. You'd have someone 'locked' on a payment there, and the customer didn't realize it was a 6 or 7 year term(for much more proffit) when it was never mentioned at the table it was anything other then the 60 month they started 'negotiating with. And they STILL come out of 'the box' sigining the paperwork. :huh: That shit would never fly here.

 

I really can't think of any customer(mine or other salesperson's deals) in the past 4 years that looked like there was any pushing and shoving, ever. :shrug: I also know a lot of other Ford salespeople in the region and they are some of the best people I know. It takes a lot of dedication to stay with domestic dealership. I don't understand where you find these people. If you don't like the salesperson, get the fug out of the dealer and go to another one, I wouldn't buy an MP3 player from someone I didn't like. :shrug: Between surveys and sales numbers, dealers will fix themselves if you just dont BUY it from them.

Edited February 23, 2006 by kevinb120

[kevinb120]

This is a great suggestion. Ford's middle and upper management should be required to go through a dealership (just like they expect their paying customers to do) and should have to keep their vehicles for 2-3 years. By only keeping cars and trucks for one year and never setting foot on a showroom floor (or worse yet, in the dealer's service dept), Ford management is ignorant when it comes to the true customer ownership experience.

 

 

I think they should do a much more involved 'mystery shopper' program. Typically its done by outside companies that are professionals at it and quite effective. They just run through service, sales, whatever and write reports directly to the manufacturer. Usually a bonus for top rated people make it very effective for a staff to keep on thier toes(rather then just bashing). You never really know who your talking too. The thing is, the results need to be visible, one $150 bonus per year for one mystery shop makes it a forgettable program. I have also seen less and less upper management dealer walks over the years too(it virtually NEVER happens anymore). At Acura, we actually had big wigs from Japan fly in regularly and go over things with a fine-tooth comb and meet most of the employees. It could use a major overhaul, I agree that the CSI is only so effective and is a static measure of customer satisfaction. They are giving way too much credit to surveys and have given up on the absolute 'basics' of customer satisfaction.

 

One other note about the CSI in general, there should be an opportunity for a sales/service person to contest a really bad one. A very good rep can get one sour apple with no opportunity to explain that the bad score was from a customer that was intent on being an asshole from the day they walked in the dealership. Most of the bad ones I have ever gotten was someone that came in pissed from some other dealer already, got the deal of a lifetime on the new car, and still ended up with a shit survey. They have simply given up on anything but simply computing CSI scores with no real interraction either way with customers and dealer employees. Happier employees that feel more relavent also translates into more satisfied customers. At our dealer, surveys are important to our egos and our paycheck to some extent, but the 'one way street' and that is just something you look up on the computer to grade yourself on does not equal the same thing as some sort of company recognition for good work(and hides bad employees easilly as well). There definately needs to be a more dynamic way of keepin in touch with and on top of dealerships.

 

I have seen some dealerships that actually 'bribe' customers to come in with thier surveys filled out perfect for a free oil change or something to that effect. So they simply cheat the system.

 

This also leads into the oversaturation of dealers(which I have no clue how to fix either). Toyota only has about 1 in 4 ratio to Ford dealers, and it is easier to track them.

Edited February 23, 2006 by kevinb120

[kenp77]

Too many threads about unions, unamerican Honda buyers, product comparisons, etc. But I have, in the last 5 years, bought a new Ford and a new Honda and I can tell you the Ford and Honda compare about even. The Ranger I own has better paint and the gaps and such are spot on (thank you Edison). The Honda's paint isn't as good. IN fact, my wife liked the Honda better than an Escape but I didn't. I could have gotten an Escape and been well satisfied with the PRODUCT.

 

But the Dealer? I have tried three local Ford dealers and all of them SUCK!!! The Honda dealer does everything but sexual favors when I hit the door of the service department. By comparison, the Ford dealer makes me feel like I am going to court.

 

Forget the unions, forget the product for a moment. Folks ask why Toyota, with their sludgy engines, and Honda, with their substandard Civic (last gen and IMHO this gen), unibody truck, and "toaster" looking box (Element) can still increase sales. One word: DEALER!!!

 

Ford, FIX THE DEALER PROBLEM and everything else will fix itself. The product is there. The quality is there. The dealer and overall service after the sale is severely lacking.

 

And before anyone flames me with my brother said this bad thing about a Honda dealer, understand I am one of the few on here that has bought BOTH new in the last 5 years so I would KNOW!!

BEC You are dead on the money I liike you ha ve an 03 camry and an 04 f-150 bought from the same dealer on the ford side they are an absolute pain in the ass to deal with and everything they touch they screw up, on the toyo side is a different as nite and day of coures the toyo hasn't been if anything excetp service is unbelievable to me??

[OTISFORDSUCKS]

Howdy!!: Feel free to visit: http://www.otisfordsucks.com Thank you.

[bec5150]

IT goes further than just "dealership" as a service deal. Read consumer reports. See how much better the reliability surveys are for Honda than for Ford? But my experience is that both are about even. So why the disparity in the CU magazine?

 

Probalby because when I went to Honda, they told me they were sorry, gave me a brand new car to drive, washed the car after they were done working on it, thanked me for my business, and told me again, they were sorry the car screwed up.

 

I go to Ford, they tell me if they would have changed my oil instead of doing it myself they would have caught the light bulb/squeaky brake/etc and it's my fault it broke. They make me come back in a week and drop it off, no offer of a car to drive, keep the vehicle for two days, get it back, they break something else while fixing the original problem, or don't fix the problem at all, return truck, they try again, get it back after being parked in their gravel lot truck is dirtier than it was when I brought it....on and on and on....

 

Then JD Power or CU or someone else askes me about how many times I took my car back to the dealer, what was the problem, was it fixed, etc.....now, which one is going to get a better rating from me?

 

Is this making any sense?

[MyBlueOval]

Damn you guys need to see ME :P Our dealer is the easiest I have ever seen to deal with. I HATED working for Toyota. Most of them just make up stories and actually say shit like, oh American cars suck!, and yet people still buy from them like its a drug(they all call their Toyota customers 'the Lay Downs'. They sell everything on the internet under invoice and crush people in the finance office and aftermarket. So the salespeople don't make shit on most deals and its a revolving door with hardly any truely trained professionals. The Finance managers clean house though. I really couldnt stand it there, and just the way the customer's bought that shit no matter what was said made me ill after all the work and training it takes to sell a domestic car. You'd have someone 'locked' on a payment there, and the customer didn't realize it was a 6 or 7 year term(for much more proffit) when it was never mentioned at the table it was anything other then the 60 month they started 'negotiating with. And they STILL come out of 'the box' sigining the paperwork. :huh: That shit would never fly here.

 

I really can't think of any customer(mine or other salesperson's deals) in the past 4 years that looked like there was any pushing and shoving, ever. :shrug: I also know a lot of other Ford salespeople in the region and they are some of the best people I know. It takes a lot of dedication to stay with domestic dealership. I don't understand where you find these people. If you don't like the salesperson, get the fug out of the dealer and go to another one, I wouldn't buy an MP3 player from someone I didn't like. :shrug: Between surveys and sales numbers, dealers will fix themselves if you just dont BUY it from them.

Where is it that you find these terrible dealers? We have never found a dealer we didn't like. Does

anyone read the surveys? And consumer reports have always been a bunch of crap no matter

what you are looking at. Keep Going cousin.

[Ron W.]

I go to Ford, they tell me if they would have changed my oil instead of doing it myself they would have caught the light bulb/squeaky brake/etc and it's my fault it broke.

 

Funny that you posted that. Ford does not want the dealerships "UPSELLING" warranty, if you doubt this call your local Ford dealer and ask for the warranty administrator and ask them yourself.

As far as light bulbs and other wear items every Ford dealer i've worked at (and i work in the back, not sales) included a free safety inspection with oil changes which of course includes making sure that all the lights work fluids are checked and topped off at no charge if needed.

I have had people come in and purchase oil and filter for their brand new Ford and i advise them to have the maintainence (oil, oil filter fuel filter air filter etc) done at a shop be it a Ford dealer or independent. When they ask why and tell me their just trying to save some money i tell them without proof (a repair order with VIN miles date etc.) of maitainence they might be risking the chance of Ford refusing to do a warranty repair. Can't really blame Ford for that, imagine you buy a new Ford and at 20 or 30K miles the engine blows but you have NO proof you took care of it.

Now as far as legitamit warranty repairs go Ford does have the dealer jumping through way more hoops than necessary which often means the vehicle is tied up for longer than it should be. A warranty visit should be PAIN FREE for the customer, but at this time i'm afraid alot of them aren't. :shrug: