My take

[scottyboy]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

[OAC_Sparky]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

Here's MY take.

 

You're an asshole, your mom probably ran away with a UAW worker and now you're bitter.

 

So fuck off already.

[Quickdraw]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

 

Looks like you have an agenda by starting multiple threads bashing the union. Are you self employed, a paid union buster, or a scab?

 

I don't know who you work(ed) for but it doesn't matter *YOU* benefitted from the unions existence. Just as you are paid more, with more benefits than you otherwsie would have gotten, if you have enough years let to work you will suffer along with the unions decline. (Being self employed is a different story).

[mnm]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

noone cares what you think. i hope you find out you have colon cancer next week. it would be funny

[Pumpmaster]

Here's MY take.

 

You're an asshole, your mom probably ran away with a UAW worker and now you're bitter.

 

So fuck off already.

 

:hysterical:

[scottyboy]

noone cares what you think. i hope you find out you have colon cancer next week. it would be funny

 

Seems you have your Thumb in your Colon

 

Oh and I 2 new( 2007) fords in my garage and the Fusion built in Mexico is the best

[CAPlineWORKER]

Here's MY take.

 

You're an asshole, your mom probably ran away with a UAW worker and now you're bitter.

 

So fuck off already.

 

 

 

[econolineman]

Well guys, if he is here to union bash you've all just given him all the ammo he needs with comments like:

 

You're an asshole, your mom probably ran away with a UAW worker

 

i hope you find out you have colon cancer next week

 

This is exactly what people that do this are trolling for. It just confirms their (and the public's) vision of us as lazy, uneducated, childish whiners. It's just the kind of poster material they are after to further their views as being the right ones.

 

Give 'em valid arguments, don't play into their hands.

[Pioneer]

Oh and I 2 new( 2007) fords in my garage and the Fusion built in Mexico is the best

 

Nobody believes you.

[ViperPilot]

It's just the kind of poster material they are after to further their views as being the right ones.

All the intelligent and eloquent arguments in the world isn't going to change the troll's point of view, and to think otherwise is naive.

 

So you may as well treat him like a troll.

[feegsit]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

Uh Oh... Here is another one. Where do all these nut cases come from ????

[Hotlanta]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves.

 

Unions help to build a solid foundation for families. Would you actually prefer no guaranteed health plan? No guaranteed pension coverage, or life insurance? A wage package negotiated by a union who has YOUR interests in mind, or a wage determined by your employer who has only HIS interests in mind? Do you want health, dental and vision benefits for you and your family, or no guaranteed coverage at all?

Union members bargain for you in the fight for better wages, benefits, and job safety! Do you think your non-union employer really cares if your working conditions are dangerous?

 

 

Health insurance is not a right.

 

Maybe not today, but it will be and SHOULD be in the future. The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not have health care as a right of citizenship. As a result, 48 million Americans have no health insurance. Fifty percent of all bankruptcies in this country are now medically related. A recent Pew research poll shows that 65 percent of Americans would like a universal health care system. It hasn’t happened because powerful lobbyists from the health insurance industry and pharmaceutical industry don’t want it to happen. They would lose their large profits. Since we have privately funded campaigns in this country, they have more clout with Congress than the American people do. But you can bet your booties that the UAW will be in the FOREFRONT of the fight for health care for everyone.

 

A living wage is not a right.

 

Once again, not today, but the overwhelmingly majority of today's citizens believe it SHOULD be. And not only that, a living wage is MORALLY right. The only real question that matters - or should matter - is whether paying a particular group of workers a living wage will improve their living standards. And the answer that comes again and again from the workers themselves is a resounding yes.

 

Save for your own retirement.

 

Much easier said than done. Those who have no time to constantly eye the stock market and consult with their brokers mainly depend on IRA's, which pay next-to-nothing these days. Same for savings accounts - interest rates are dismal. And the majority of people don't have the money to risk for the high-stake stock market. Trying to choose an investment opportunity that not only won't cost you an arm and a leg, but will pay off, in the long run, without a risk - is next to impossible for the everyday worker who is too busy with work and family to dedicate all his time keeping an eye on CNBC's 'MarketWatch'.

 

Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is.

 

Actually, the Delta Pilots, due to the efforts of the ALPA, are beginning to bounce back quite nicely, even after Delta filed bankruptcy. Now that Delta is becoming profitable once again, the Pilots are getting some of their money back. Do you think that Delta would have done this if not for the union? It was the Air Line Pilots Association that made sure that Delta not only had to give their INVESTORS rewards due to rising share prices - but they had to reward the pilots who had sacrificed during Delta's downturn. The pilots are the ones who deserved to recoup some of the pay and benefits given up in recent years, not just the stockholders. And the ALPA is the one who made sure that the WORKERS, not the shareholders, were treated fairly. This is a shining example of how a union can negotiate fairly for both their members, AND the company.

 

Nothing is free! Wise up.

 

You are absolutely correct, nothing is free. THAT is why you have a union - so the companies cannot take advantage of their workers. Would you prefer sweatshops? Because if not for unions, that's exactly what we would have here. Certainly there are good unions and bad, just as there are good people, and bad. I've worked both with a union and without. And I'll choose union representation anyday. It may not always be perfect, but it's given myself and my family a better life. I was able to take care of my family, and never had to worry about having the money to pay for a sudden hospitalization. We could get our teeth cleaned, our eyes examined, without worrying about money. And you know what? A worker should NEVER have to worry about these things for his/her family.

 

And the fact that you don't seem to CARE about any of this things, is a sad statement of, what is, hopefully, a small segment of our society. That's yet another thing I like about the union, and it's members - we actually belive in HELPING others. The union and its membership donates MILLIONS of dollars to charitable causes and logs thousands of hours in community service.

 

Now THAT'S what life is about. Maybe you should try it sometime.

[davdog]

I agree with you on health insurance, but you can't prop up the pay of a job artificially or it will eventually bite those employees in the behind.

 

If we pay every job a living wage what's to motivate people to improve themselves?

 

The living wage is ripe for abuse.

[Hotlanta]

I agree with you on health insurance, but you can't prop up the pay of a job artificially or it will eventually bite those employees in the behind.

 

If we pay every job a living wage what's to motivate people to improve themselves?

 

The living wage is ripe for abuse.

 

Based on federal government statistics, it is conservatively estimated that, with a living wage, more than one million homeless people will be able to work themselves off the streets of America. A living wage will prevent economic-based homelessness for all 10.1 million minimum wage workers, at the same time; it will offer businesses stable workers . . . thus avoiding costly turnover, repetitive retraining costs, high absenteeism, and internal theft.

 

If that's not motivation, I don't know what IS.

 

And as far as abuse, that's true in ANY program. How many people have never cheated on their income tax? The list is endless. But that doesn't mean that people don't benefit, and that the programs don't work. Most programs are a constant 'work in progress'.

[Len_A]

All the intelligent and eloquent arguments in the world isn't going to change the troll's point of view, and to think otherwise is naive.

 

So you may as well treat him like a troll.

Very well said.

[davdog]

Based on federal government statistics, it is conservatively estimated that, with a living wage, more than one million homeless people will be able to work themselves off the streets of America. A living wage will prevent economic-based homelessness for all 10.1 million minimum wage workers, at the same time; it will offer businesses stable workers . . . thus avoiding costly turnover, repetitive retraining costs, high absenteeism, and internal theft.

 

If that's not motivation, I don't know what IS.

 

And as far as abuse, that's true in ANY program. How many people have never cheated on their income tax? The list is endless. But that doesn't mean that people don't benefit, and that the programs don't work. Most programs are a constant 'work in progress'.

 

So what constitutes a living wage? In some cities that is a hefty number. So the small business owners need to raise the prices to cover that cost right? So you're saying the clerk at 7/11 should make a livable wage?

 

There are so many educational opportunities in this country and so many financial assitance and loan programs available.

 

I think we should be concentrating on improving the average citizen not making a 7/11 clerk position a career.

[dark270]

So what constitutes a living wage? In some cities that is a hefty number. So the small business owners need to raise the prices to cover that cost right? So you're saying the clerk at 7/11 should make a livable wage?

 

There are so many educational opportunities in this country and so many financial assitance and loan programs available.

 

I think we should be concentrating on improving the average citizen not making a 7/11 clerk position a career.

 

 

oh another POS...

DIE DAVDIPSHIT DOG DIE!

[Hotlanta]

So what constitutes a living wage? In some cities that is a hefty number. So the small business owners need to raise the prices to cover that cost right? So you're saying the clerk at 7/11 should make a livable wage?

 

There are so many educational opportunities in this country and so many financial assitance and loan programs available.

 

I think we should be concentrating on improving the average citizen not making a 7/11 clerk position a career.

 

Yes, I am saying that the clerk at the 7/11 should make a livable wage. Is a clerk at a 7/11 a 'lesser' person just because he works in a convenience store? Ford Motor line workers are considered 'unskilled labor', just as 7/11 clerks are considered 'unskilled workers'. Yet there is a huge disparity in pay. You could also make the argument that many Ford workers never came close to graduating high school, yet here they are - making more money than most college graduates.

 

As far as what would constitute a living wage - that would depend on each geographic area. A living wage in Boston, for example, would be higher than a living wage for New Hampshire, where the cost of living is lower.

 

We live in the richest country in the world - our citizens who are working hard every day, be it in a courtyard or a junkyard - should never have to live in poverty.

 

As Martin Luther King once said - "There is nothing but a lack of social vision to prevent us from paying an adequate wage to every American citizen whether he be a hospital worker, laundry worker, maid or day laborer"

[ted labor]

Yes, I am saying that the clerk at the 7/11 should make a livable wage. Is a clerk at a 7/11 a 'lesser' person just because he works in a convenience store? Ford Motor line workers are considered 'unskilled labor', just as 7/11 clerks are considered 'unskilled workers'. Yet there is a huge disparity in pay. You could also make the argument that many Ford workers never came close to graduating high school, yet here they are - making more money than most college graduates.

 

As far as what would constitute a living wage - that would depend on each geographic area. A living wage in Boston, for example, would be higher than a living wage for New Hampshire, where the cost of living is lower.

 

We live in the richest country in the world - our citizens who are working hard every day, be it in a courtyard or a junkyard - should never have to live in poverty.

 

As Martin Luther King once said - "There is nothing but a lack of social vision to prevent us from paying an adequate wage to every American citizen whether he be a hospital worker, laundry worker, maid or day laborer"

What ever DA ! we were all created equal you either strive for things or you dont. In this country only YOU can decide what kinda of life you want. I know plenty of people you used to work with that are now not working or are crying the blues, both black and white .I'm doing what I want making more money than I did at that Slave hole .Your Democrats sold you a line of shit .and your jealous

[davdog]

Yes, I am saying that the clerk at the 7/11 should make a livable wage. Is a clerk at a 7/11 a 'lesser' person just because he works in a convenience store? Ford Motor line workers are considered 'unskilled labor', just as 7/11 clerks are considered 'unskilled workers'. Yet there is a huge disparity in pay. You could also make the argument that many Ford workers never came close to graduating high school, yet here they are - making more money than most college graduates.

 

As far as what would constitute a living wage - that would depend on each geographic area. A living wage in Boston, for example, would be higher than a living wage for New Hampshire, where the cost of living is lower.

 

We live in the richest country in the world - our citizens who are working hard every day, be it in a courtyard or a junkyard - should never have to live in poverty.

 

As Martin Luther King once said - "There is nothing but a lack of social vision to prevent us from paying an adequate wage to every American citizen whether he be a hospital worker, laundry worker, maid or day laborer"

 

 

I'm not saying the 7/11 clerk is a lesser person either, I'm saying that the postion of clerk at a convienence store is a lesser job. Why don't we just concentrate on improving our citizens so we don't have many people in a postion where that is the only job they can get. You know what? That's going to raise the pay necessary to attract someone to fill the 7/11 clerks postion too. I don't feel it's the right move to say "You dropped out of high school because you didn't feel like going, oh well that's OK because we're going to make sure you're going to get paid a living wage" I know someone else is going to say so I'll throw it out there, what you're saying borders on communism and we know that doesn't work.

[CD4EMAN]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

 

 

I love you man! Are you my long lost bastard son? I am the guy that ran away with your mom. Please don't blame all Union workers for your moms stupidity. Also my very educated brother promises to diagnose you with rectal/cranial inversion next time you are in the office for your frontal labotamy.

 

Get over yourself! If you haven't worked in an auto plant,you know crap, we are hard working people, yes there are those that are slackers, it's not our fault the press only prints what the idiots say and do.That is only a snapshot. Until you walk in my UAW wage purchased shoes,

SHUT UP!!

[TCAP'er]

A union is just a bunch of people that have no clue how to take care of themselves. Health insurance is not a right. A living wage is not a right. If you don't like your job, MOVE and find a new one. Save for your own retirement. Even if you get EVERYTHING you ask for, it's all worthless by the time you retire. Just ask workers in the American steel industry about all those pensions, ask an airline employee where his is. Nothing is free! Wise up.

 

Here's what a wise man once said "blah..blah..blah..blah.. and more blah..." did your mom give birht to you in the wrong hole? :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: :shades: :shades:

[OAC_Sparky]

I don't feel it's the right move to say "You dropped out of high school because you didn't feel like going, oh well that's OK because we're going to make sure you're going to get paid a living wage" I know someone else is going to say so I'll throw it out there, what you're saying borders on communism and we know that doesn't work.

Why, then, aren't you an astrophysicist or a brain surgeon or a Bill Gates or an oil magnate? Why are you not counting your millions or travelling the world, or in the lab curing cancer?

 

Were you too lazy to go to school/be an entrepeneur/put forth the effort?

 

I'm not asking this to offend you, but think about it -- not everyone has the intelligence to be a doctor or a rocket scientist. Or the luck to be born into family wealthy enough to ensure that they get a university education no matter how bad their marks were in school. Or a myriad of other reasons that someone isn't one of society's elite.

 

Take a look at your own life -- and analyze in earnest how you got to where you are. Stable homelife? Parents that made good money? Did well in school? Had a teacher that helped you get over that big learning impediment? That boss that gave you a chance?

 

Yes, your life is yours to make; but even if you're intelligent and hardworking, shit happens in life. Does this mean that you don't deserve to make a decent wage because you're the person stuck flipping burgers? How wil anyone ever be able to improve themselves if it's everything they can do to just survive?

[mrballsonya]

Why, then, aren't you an astrophysicist or a brain surgeon or a Bill Gates or an oil magnate? Why are you not counting your millions or travelling the world, or in the lab curing cancer?

 

Were you too lazy to go to school/be an entrepeneur/put forth the effort?

 

I'm not asking this to offend you, but think about it -- not everyone has the intelligence to be a doctor or a rocket scientist. Or the luck to be born into family wealthy enough to ensure that they get a university education no matter how bad their marks were in school. Or a myriad of other reasons that someone isn't one of society's elite.

 

Take a look at your own life -- and analyze in earnest how you got to where you are. Stable homelife? Parents that made good money? Did well in school? Had a teacher that helped you get over that big learning impediment? That boss that gave you a chance?

 

Yes, your life is yours to make; but even if you're intelligent and hardworking, shit happens in life. Does this mean that you don't deserve to make a decent wage because you're the person stuck flipping burgers? How wil anyone ever be able to improve themselves if it's everything they can do to just survive?

 

Well said sparky!

 

Not every union worker is a helpless, lazy, drooling idiot. Some of us actually have a good work ethic and also possess the acumen to verbally spar with misinformed, jealous, morons.

 

To Scotty... I could care less what you think about Unions, but don't belittle us with your overtly inflammatory statements. You're obviously hoping to incite retaliatory responses, so here's mine..... :boring:

Edited September 22, 2007 by mrballsonya

[davdog]

Why, then, aren't you an astrophysicist or a brain surgeon or a Bill Gates or an oil magnate? Why are you not counting your millions or travelling the world, or in the lab curing cancer?

 

Were you too lazy to go to school/be an entrepeneur/put forth the effort?

 

I'm not asking this to offend you, but think about it -- not everyone has the intelligence to be a doctor or a rocket scientist. Or the luck to be born into family wealthy enough to ensure that they get a university education no matter how bad their marks were in school. Or a myriad of other reasons that someone isn't one of society's elite.

 

Take a look at your own life -- and analyze in earnest how you got to where you are. Stable homelife? Parents that made good money? Did well in school? Had a teacher that helped you get over that big learning impediment? That boss that gave you a chance?

 

Yes, your life is yours to make; but even if you're intelligent and hardworking, shit happens in life. Does this mean that you don't deserve to make a decent wage because you're the person stuck flipping burgers? How wil anyone ever be able to improve themselves if it's everything they can do to just survive?

 

 

Yes, it does take some luck, and or the right situation, to make it to the top. Not that I've come close. BUT your way, not yours so much, but the "living" wage way, doesn't work. We have to come up with some other way to improve the individuals, not simply force employers to pay more for jobs that really don't warrant it. I've got nothing against UAW/CAW workers; I've lived with and around them all my life. My beef is with the honey pot that they created. It was ripe to attract too many of the bad bees because it had all the safeties and outs that the bad bees could take advantage of. People need to be held accountable for their individual actions in life and not be able to hide behind the group. You're right there are people that didn't get the breaks and those are the people we need to focus on solutions for. We can't simply come up with some blanket solution that simply says "despite whatever reason you're in the situation you're in society is going to make sure you're taken care of." If we do that we'll create a whole new class of society, the ones who are taught "don't bother, things will work out no matter what you do." That used to be the welfare society.