Michael Reynolds Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I'll do the first 100 to prove you wrong. Or, they were smothered and couldn't do anything due to the Ford culture. That same culture didn't change until an outsider came in. It might not be growing fast, but it's not shrinking. The point was people might actually start new business there, unlike Detroit. Did you miss the part where I lived 40 minutes outside Detroit for 22 years? Pretty sure it is exactly that. You go right ahead and when you are done pulling your foot from your mouth let me know how all that leather and rubber tastes. Sorry but just because you end up at an Ivy league school, or Top Tier school for that matter, does not make you fit for corporate culture (and vice versa). Some of the brightest people don't have a college degree, but went on to achieve phenomenal things. A college degree doesn't guarntee squat nor does it dictate that the person that earned it has the abiliity to function an real world situations. I don't know how many people that I went to undergrad at Penn State with or even grad at U of M that were mindless/spineless zombies. Cities, such as Houston, Phoenix and the like grew big time in the 80s and 90s due to annexation. Is this the case with Reno? I'd still like to know why that city made No. 1, I just can't imagine it being a 'hot bed' from a small business perspective. I didn't miss the part that you lived 40 minutes outside of Detroit for 22 years. I just chose not to respond to it because you didn't live IN Detroit, just because you read or watched the local news does not make you an expert as to what the city is today. I lived in the metro area for 26 years, lived downtown for 3 years and my grandmother still resides in a very well kept and closely knit area which happens to be VERY ethnically diverse (my grandmother is a french immigrant). So your 22 years really isn't serving me must justice especially when your hands on experience of the city included 40 minutes of driving from wherever it was that you lived. Pretty sure? Again until you have some serious in depth hands on experience I really don't think you have any idea in terms of what you are talking about. There are poverty issues, crime issues etc.........but the entire city is not a slum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Interesting read. It seems that many (that have negative views) suffer from a short-term-sightedness that seems to afflict many Americans. Other than the excessive executive remuneration (not based on merit and achievements) that really began back in the 80’s; the loss of sight of the importance of the consumer (in the auto industry/Big 3 case) desires (we’re gonna build what we want and they will buy it/quality isn’t important/etc.); or like Wall Street, we cannot seem to see past the short-term (quarterly and even monthly sales reports) and cannot seem to realize the need for, or develop and stick to long-term goals(a ten year plan -- what the hell is that?). The whole argument about the Detroit area (and Mich in general) is just another example. I grew up in Mich and attended high school and college there. After college, I “vacationed” in sunny South Vietnam and then relocated to Florida after the Army released me from my service. I have only been back a couple of times for short visits. I suspect that not much has changed. I remember looking out the windows of the downtown Detroit Nat’l Bank building (IIRC it was the 26th floor – an Ad Agency that I was working for whilst working my way through college) when the ’67 riots began, thinking, “How in the hell am I going to get home (back in the 'burbs)?” The Motor City, its leadership, its citizens, has for far too long depended on the auto industry and has lived in the illusion that it would never end (just like the execs and workers for the Big 3). Everyone bought into that premise. To my knowledge there really hasn’t been a hugely supported effort in attracting diversity of industry, until recently when the house of cards began to fall. To attract high-tech clean industry (that is different than the auto industry), there must a concerted long-range effort by everyone. High-tech will not relocate to an area where there does not exist an educated/skilled work force that they can draw on for their employees and a quality of life that the ones making the decisions are drawn to (you know, I would love to live there). My guess is that far too many Detroit area workers are not highly educated (minimum 4 year degree) as they chose not to further their education, partly due to the fact that there has always been ample jobs available that do not require upper education - - -> the auto industry/manufacturing. Even though I am sure that the adult educational programs (technical schools and colleges) have always been there to provide the opportunity for one to increase their education and skills that would increase their occupational qualifications, my guess is that very few have used the opportunities available to them. The hand-writing has been on the wall for some time as the doors were opened by Reagan in the eighties for the crunch of the Japanese juggernaut . . . and no one seemed to notice (and realize) the ramifications of the Japanese ‘method’. Not the Big 3 execs. Not the auto workers. Did no one pick up on the Japanese ‘method’? First, they are long-term goal oriented (10 years +). They copy technology and duplicate it – but make it better (quality). Did no one pick up on that? I can remember seeing news clips of Japanese engineers/reps touring Big 3 plants (we Americans just love to show everyone just how wonderful we are and what and how we do it - - part-n-parcel of our arrogance). Well we showed ‘em, didn’t we. They went back to Japan and copied us, made significant improvements, and out did us because we stagnated. Not just the execs of the Big 3, the auto worker stagnated too. It would interesting to see the figures of the 100,000 plus auto workers, and find out how many have actually done anything to improve their education/skill levels since they got their first job in the industry – on their own. My guess is that they would expect the company to push them to do it AND pay for it. I wonder if the UAW has ever even had a continuing education program for their membership. (?) Your governor, if she has started the ball rolling for diversification, she is doing the right thing. But be warned – it takes many years to accomplish it as there is plenty of competition with the better part of 49 other states attempting to do the same thing (not to mention out-sourcing to other countries). It doesn’t happen over night. Just like all those auto workers that have lost, or will loose, their jobs, they will not be able to increase their education/skills that are desirable by another industry/business over night. Whose fault is that? I’ll give you an example. My area is getting a very notable bio-tech company (they’re building the facilities as we speak) that has the home base in San Diego just a handful of miles from my house. This area ALREADY has a very high number of well-educated/skilled people for them to draw on for employees and there has been a concerted effort to attract clean-high tech industry for close to two decades. Prior to that time Florida depended far too much on the tourist industry. There will be as many as 100 support/sub-contractor companies that will spawn from this one facility. The vast majority of jobs will be high-paying jobs – commensurate with education/skill. Do you think that the Detroit area was in the running when they began their search? It takes more than just having a “high-profile’ university in the area. Oops, there isn't one here. FSU, UF, UofM are all quite some distance away. It takes an existing prospective skilled base of people already living in the area to provide for employees to even get their interest. So while some of you can lambaste your governor, it just shows that you do not understand the bigger picture. . . and what it takes, and how long it takes to accomplish that task. Is it her fault that the Metro-Detroit area has put all of its eggs in one basket for sooooo long a time? No. Will she (or anyone else, for that matter) be able to diversify the industry for the area anytime soon? Nope. It could take a decade or more. But it needs to be done and it is going to take money (yes, and that means taxes) to make the area attractive to businesses/industry to want to come there. You don’t really expect them to come in and pay for infrastructural (for example) improvements do you? Guess again. Now comes the more important question. Will YOU be ready (and educated and skilled) enough to qualify for when it happens? Will you vote for leaders that can see the big picture and have the will-power and skill to get it done? Or, are you going to be the one that just complains the way things are and wish that status-quo would just continue? Are you going to be the person that thinks about just yourself, or what is good for my community? What businessman (in his right mind) would hire a person with a signature like the person that started this thread? A ton of baggage there. . . better start your own business. . . I am sure there are some clientele that would identify with your signatures. . . you just need to find the right products/services that would be desirable to them. . . and not chase them away. Then again you could move to Calee-for-ni-aye where they have 173,000 prisoners and only 100,000 prison beds/facilities. It’s going to be interesting to see how the Terminator handles that problem. Michiganders should just hope that the tens of thousands of felons that they (Ca) probably will have to start releasing don’t move to Michigan. Here in Florida, we had a Republican governor for two terms (he is supposed to be the smarter brother) and during his term our schools national ranking dropped by 8. I could go on and on. . . but I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Razor, you have some very VERY valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Walmart - Lee Scott - Pittsburg State Exxon - Rex Tillerson - University of Texas General Motors - Rick Wagoner - Duke AND Harvard Chevron - Steve Crowe - University of California Conocophilips - James Mulva - University of Texas General Electric - Jeff Immelt - Dartmouth AND Harvard Ford Motor - Alan Mullaly - MIT Citigroup - Charles Prince - USC AND Georgetown Bank of America - Ken Lewis - Stanford AIG - Martin Sullivan - Sydney Russel School in Essex, England JP Morgan Chase - Jamie Dimon - Tufts AND Harvard Berkshire Hathaway - Warren Buffet - Penn AND Columbia Verizon - Ivan Seidenberg - Pace University Hewlett-Packard - Cofounders who still actively run company went to Stanford and MIT, Current CEO went to Baylor IBM - Samuel J. Palmisano - Johns Hopkins Valero - Bill Klesse - University of Dayton Home Depot - Frank Blake - Harvard AND Columbia McKesson - Jeff Campbell - Stanford AND Harvard Cardinal Health - Robert Walter - Harvard and Ohio Morgan Stanley - John Mack - Duke That's the top 20. I refuse to continue since I've clearly made my point. Edited October 4, 2007 by ShockFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 IBM - Samuel J. Palmisano - John Hopkins Dagnabbit!!! JOHNS HOPKINS!!!! Seems only people who live near Baltimore or went to the school realize that the first "S" isn't a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Correction, no one in the US did outside of key markets. In Canada they never stopped talking about it!!!! But to e fair, it is 20000000 times better than baseball...or soccer.... Especially when I listen to Don Cherry's commentary! That's what makes Hockey Night in Canada fun to watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Interesting read. It seems that many (that have negative views) suffer from a short-term-sightedness that seems to afflict many Americans. Other than the excessive executive remuneration (not based on merit and achievements) that really began back in the 80’s; the loss of sight of the importance of the consumer (in the auto industry/Big 3 case) desires (we’re gonna build what we want and they will buy it/quality isn’t important/etc.); or like Wall Street, we cannot seem to see past the short-term (quarterly and even monthly sales reports) and cannot seem to realize the need for, or develop and stick to long-term goals(a ten year plan -- what the hell is that?). The whole argument about the Detroit area (and Mich in general) is just another example. I grew up in Mich and attended high school and college there. After college, I “vacationed” in sunny South Vietnam and then relocated to Florida after the Army released me from my service. I have only been back a couple of times for short visits. I suspect that not much has changed. I remember looking out the windows of the downtown Detroit Nat’l Bank building (IIRC it was the 26th floor – an Ad Agency that I was working for whilst working my way through college) when the ’67 riots began, thinking, “How in the hell am I going to get home (back in the 'burbs)?” The Motor City, its leadership, its citizens, has for far too long depended on the auto industry and has lived in the illusion that it would never end (just like the execs and workers for the Big 3). Everyone bought into that premise. To my knowledge there really hasn’t been a hugely supported effort in attracting diversity of industry, until recently when the house of cards began to fall. To attract high-tech clean industry (that is different than the auto industry), there must a concerted long-range effort by everyone. High-tech will not relocate to an area where there does not exist an educated/skilled work force that they can draw on for their employees and a quality of life that the ones making the decisions are drawn to (you know, I would love to live there). My guess is that far too many Detroit area workers are not highly educated (minimum 4 year degree) as they chose not to further their education, partly due to the fact that there has always been ample jobs available that do not require upper education - - -> the auto industry/manufacturing. Even though I am sure that the adult educational programs (technical schools and colleges) have always been there to provide the opportunity for one to increase their education and skills that would increase their occupational qualifications, my guess is that very few have used the opportunities available to them. The hand-writing has been on the wall for some time as the doors were opened by Reagan in the eighties for the crunch of the Japanese juggernaut . . . and no one seemed to notice (and realize) the ramifications of the Japanese ‘method’. Not the Big 3 execs. Not the auto workers. Did no one pick up on the Japanese ‘method’? First, they are long-term goal oriented (10 years +). They copy technology and duplicate it – but make it better (quality). Did no one pick up on that? I can remember seeing news clips of Japanese engineers/reps touring Big 3 plants (we Americans just love to show everyone just how wonderful we are and what and how we do it - - part-n-parcel of our arrogance). Well we showed ‘em, didn’t we. They went back to Japan and copied us, made significant improvements, and out did us because we stagnated. Not just the execs of the Big 3, the auto worker stagnated too. It would interesting to see the figures of the 100,000 plus auto workers, and find out how many have actually done anything to improve their education/skill levels since they got their first job in the industry – on their own. My guess is that they would expect the company to push them to do it AND pay for it. I wonder if the UAW has ever even had a continuing education program for their membership. (?) Your governor, if she has started the ball rolling for diversification, she is doing the right thing. But be warned – it takes many years to accomplish it as there is plenty of competition with the better part of 49 other states attempting to do the same thing (not to mention out-sourcing to other countries). It doesn’t happen over night. Just like all those auto workers that have lost, or will loose, their jobs, they will not be able to increase their education/skills that are desirable by another industry/business over night. Whose fault is that? I’ll give you an example. My area is getting a very notable bio-tech company (they’re building the facilities as we speak) that has the home base in San Diego just a handful of miles from my house. This area ALREADY has a very high number of well-educated/skilled people for them to draw on for employees and there has been a concerted effort to attract clean-high tech industry for close to two decades. Prior to that time Florida depended far too much on the tourist industry. There will be as many as 100 support/sub-contractor companies that will spawn from this one facility. The vast majority of jobs will be high-paying jobs – commensurate with education/skill. Do you think that the Detroit area was in the running when they began their search? It takes more than just having a “high-profile’ university in the area. Oops, there isn't one here. FSU, UF, UofM are all quite some distance away. It takes an existing prospective skilled base of people already living in the area to provide for employees to even get their interest. So while some of you can lambaste your governor, it just shows that you do not understand the bigger picture. . . and what it takes, and how long it takes to accomplish that task. Is it her fault that the Metro-Detroit area has put all of its eggs in one basket for sooooo long a time? No. Will she (or anyone else, for that matter) be able to diversify the industry for the area anytime soon? Nope. It could take a decade or more. But it needs to be done and it is going to take money (yes, and that means taxes) to make the area attractive to businesses/industry to want to come there. You don’t really expect them to come in and pay for infrastructural (for example) improvements do you? Guess again. Now comes the more important question. Will YOU be ready (and educated and skilled) enough to qualify for when it happens? Will you vote for leaders that can see the big picture and have the will-power and skill to get it done? Or, are you going to be the one that just complains the way things are and wish that status-quo would just continue? Are you going to be the person that thinks about just yourself, or what is good for my community? What businessman (in his right mind) would hire a person with a signature like the person that started this thread? A ton of baggage there. . . better start your own business. . . I am sure there are some clientele that would identify with your signatures. . . you just need to find the right products/services that would be desirable to them. . . and not chase them away. Then again you could move to Calee-for-ni-aye where they have 173,000 prisoners and only 100,000 prison beds/facilities. It’s going to be interesting to see how the Terminator handles that problem. Michiganders should just hope that the tens of thousands of felons that they (Ca) probably will have to start releasing don’t move to Michigan. Here in Florida, we had a Republican governor for two terms (he is supposed to be the smarter brother) and during his term our schools national ranking dropped by 8. I could go on and on. . . but I won't. I'm not going to take you to task personally on your statement becuase it definitely is rooted in experience from a past time. However, the prevailing wisdom going on today is this built up arrogance and condescention that has festered and has been perpetrated for years all in part due to politics. You have labor unions telling, no; the correct term is: BRAINWASHING people to vote for Democrats. The same type who have done more to destroy the auto industry with so much safety regulations, fuel economy standards, trade policies, (not saying that I'm giving the Republicans a free pass) pro-enviromental policies, tax increases. Who in their right mind would want to come to this state and start up a business now? Yes, this arrogance and you can look at the city of Detroit as a prime example. You have a buffalo butt down there that has basically anointed himself a King at the taxpayers' expense. People down there simply do not have the common sense to elect anyone based on merit or ability. That's why Detroit is on it's way down D-TOILET for good. I don't give a rats ass how many casinos they build down there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I'm not going to take you to task personally on your statement becuase it definitely is rooted in experience from a past time. However, the prevailing wisdom going on today is this built up arrogance and condescention that has festered and has been perpetrated for years all in part due to politics. You have labor unions telling, no; the correct term is: BRAINWASHING people to vote for Democrats. The same type who have done more to destroy the auto industry with so much safety regulations, fuel economy standards, trade policies, (not saying that I'm giving the Republicans a free pass) pro-enviromental policies, tax increases. Who in their right mind would want to come to this state and start up a business now? Yes, this arrogance and you can look at the city of Detroit as a prime example. You have a buffalo butt down there that has basically anointed himself a King at the taxpayers' expense. People down there simply do not have the common sense to elect anyone based on merit or ability. That's why Detroit is on it's way down D-TOILET for good. I don't give a rats ass how many casinos they build down there! Bored, you have to be naive if you think that only the unions "push" the membership/employees on how they should vote. Most of the right-wing fundamentalist religious sects have done it for many, many years. Although I have worked (ah, it was a few years ago) for two different unions. . . one was the UAW (on temporary permit) and the other was the Operating Engineers. . . most of my business experience in life has been in management/administration, which includes upper level in a Fortune 500 company. It happened in almost every election, there was pressure "applied" to vote Republican from above - - even to the point of instructing me exactly how much I was to personally contribute (the max allowed by law) to the specified candidate. One company even gave a company check that was to cover my contribution. Of course, that amount later appeared on my W-2. But the candidate that I was contribute to. . . was specified and I was told that they would be checking the contributor's list. I was a Republican at the time and even served at rather high levels within the state party, but with time I learned about the out-and-out deception of the Rove mentality that has overtaken that party since 1980 and could stomach it no more. I am now an independent and for many years I have probably paid more in income tax than most Americans earn in a year, so I can appreciate a disdain for taxes, especially when the government spends it foolishly. The problem gets worse when an administration spends significantly more than it takes in (what did the deficit ceiling get raised to recently? 9.5 trillion dollars?) I am a fiscal conservative and there has been very few of them in Washington for the last 20+ years. You can characterize the Democrats for spending and taxing all you want, but it is the Republicans that beat them soundly for the last several decades in that category. The same goes with the growth of the government and how it is involved in your life. Republicans win hands-down. Turning the government over to big corporations will doom this country. . . and we are well along that path. . . They would sell you, your sister, and mother into slavery and sell you unsafe, toxic products so that more money can go into the pockets of a few. . . if left unchecked. The environmentalists are just trying to keep this planet habitable and to conserve our resources. Besides, companies can make as much money without raping our planet. We still have a long way to go before we can start moving to another planet. There was a time that just breathing the air in certain cities in this country was the equivalent of smoking a pack of ciggies per day. Try watching for a series on the Science or Discovery channel called EcoTech (and others like it). Companies all over the world are starting to catch on. I guess you could say that some execs finally realized that somewhere down the line, they will need lots of consumers and it's not good business to use up the planet's resources and contribute to an environment that kills off the people (customers). An example. If it weren't for the "net" laws and other conservation regulations, commercial fishermen (& corps) would have stripped the ocean of many of the fish that we need to consume for food. They would literally fight over harvesting the last male and female of a species -- if you let them. Then that species would be gone. With the population explosion we have, we can't allow that to happen. Now (at least in parts of the Atlantic that enforce those laws), some of those species are coming back. Yeah, those environmentalists -- they're bad, bad people. Not! You depict a lot of violence (and anger) in your signature. I feel for you bud. Life is too short to let it consume you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Michael Reynolds where are you? I'm not eating leather and rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Michael Reynolds where are you? I'm not eating leather and rubber. Two words: Pittsburgh State Pittsburg State is probably Michigan's equivalent of Eastern Michigan. Regardless, I can site two personal examples of brains that went to both MSU and WMU occupying senior management positions at a very young age. I can also site numerous 'I can't function in the real world' U of M and PSU grads that I went to school with that occupy bottom feeder jobs at (insert corporation here). You see what you fail to realize is that in some cases it's not always what you know, it's who you know. Try again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Two words: Pittsburgh State Pittsburg State is probably Michigan's equivalent of Eastern Michigan. Regardless, I can site two personal examples of brains that went to both MSU and WMU occupying senior management positions at a very young age. I can also site numerous 'I can't function in the real world' U of M and PSU grads that I went to school with that occupy bottom feeder jobs at (insert corporation here). You see what you fail to realize is that in some cases it's not always what you know, it's who you know. Try again.... "My argument was that top tech firms recruit only top 100 schools. It's just a fact that the average decision maker (like the CEO that is going to pick a place to invest) went to a top school. Fair or not, it's how the world is." I'm 99% sure my point was that while the average grad from a top 10 school and a lesser may be the exact same in competance, the VAST MAJORITY of the decision makers and CEOs are from the best schools. From that list it is 90% certain that you will work for someone that graduated from a better school than you. Face it. And to your last point, did you ever think that "who you know" is more useful if you went to a better school? But hey, if you are happy in denial then I say go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 "My argument was that top tech firms recruit only top 100 schools. It's just a fact that the average decision maker (like the CEO that is going to pick a place to invest) went to a top school. Fair or not, it's how the world is." I'm 99% sure my point was that while the average grad from a top 10 school and a lesser may be the exact same in competance, the VAST MAJORITY of the decision makers and CEOs are from the best schools. From that list it is 90% certain that you will work for someone that graduated from a better school than you. Face it. And to your last point, did you ever think that "who you know" is more useful if you went to a better school? But hey, if you are happy in denial then I say go for it. Caveat it all you want, don't go adjusting your argument on my behalf. Just because you attend 'x' school does not doom you to the servitude of Office Space-dom. Personally, I could give a damn about where someone went to school. AFAIK, it boils down to the ability to perform ones job.......it is unfortunate that alot of individuals out there, including yourself, place so much empahsis on a name of a school. Having said that creditials and experience tend to dicatate otherwise. Some of the brightest individuals have attended less well known institutions of higher learning, and even by doing so have climbed their way to the top of government and corporate America. If you refuse to get that through your thick skull and not come down from that high horse of yours......your screwed buddy. BTW alot of drives the US economy are small and medium sized firms. Firms that tend to not focus on how great your degree from the University of Michigan is, but more about what you can do as an employee for that company. And sorry school is not the only place to network. There are alot of things that you can do to get your face and name out there, again a degree does not dictate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Caveat it all you want, don't go adjusting your argument on my behalf. Just because you attend 'x' school BTW alot of drives the US economy are small and medium sized firms. Firms that tend to not focus on how great your degree from the University of Michigan is, but more about what you can do as an employee for that company. Here's the shocker.....what if you can do a ton for their company and came from a top school? Wow, could that be why when I said top tech firms target top schools that's they won't have interest in expanding to Michigan? No, of course not, because you think I'm saying I'm great cause I have a degree, not that people can be great AND have a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 (edited) I pulled this quote that someone from the Detroit News (News Forum) posted And this is what the Toledo Blade newspaper is saying... From the Toledo Blade: "For more than four hours, Michigan's government was officially in shutdown mode after the legislature failed in its constitutional duty to enact a balanced budget by midnight, Oct. 1. Finally, the lawmakers narrowly passed two new revenue bills at 4:20 a.m. Monday, and a bone-tired Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed a "continuation budget" that allowed the state to begin functioning again. But almost no one deserves praise. The budget process in Michigan is not done, and another government shutdown could occur at the end of this month, if a highly partisan legislature fails to agree on $400 million in cuts that are still needed to balance a budget that should have been final on Sept. 30. What's been going on in Michigan represents selfishness, a clash of narrow ideologies, and, most of all, the utter failure of term limits as a mechanism for good government. More than a decade ago, Michigan voters adopted term limits for state legislators. Anyone now can serve up to six years in the house; eight years in the Senate, and after that they are barred from serving for life. The idea was to get fresh ideas; the reality has come close to wrecking the state. Politicians who knew they wouldn't be around to pay the piper voted big tax cuts the state could ill-afford, passed largely fictional budgets, and counted on raiding the rainy day fund when the bills came due. This year, the cushion was gone. Michigan's government, long tied to the boom-and-bust cycles of the auto economy, has had lean years before. But in the old days, there were always a bipartisan group of old bulls who, when push came to shove, could put together a compromise deal in the interests of the state. Today, every single legislator has been in office less than five years. Most of the districts are gerrymandered, one-party enclaves that tend to send legislators from the two ideological extremes of their parties. Democrats and Republicans barely speak to each other, and clearly don't trust one another. Add the fact that Michigan has the worst jobless rate in the nation, and you have a legislative recipe for disaster. The result: the vast majority of the Republican legislators refused to vote for a minimal increase in the state income tax, though the alternative was shutting down the state, effectively destroying higher education, or closing down the prisons. Things don't seem likely to get better anytime soon. With new elections approaching next year, the game of pass the blame is apt to continue. The kindergarten squabbles of Michigan's elected nonleaders are more destructive than embarrassing. No state needs new business more. But for months, nobody has been able to say what Michigan's tax rate would be or even what was likely to be taxed. What businessman in his right mind would want to move to such a place - let alone one threatened with government shutdown? Michigan needs a lot of things right now, but perhaps most of all, it needs a new kind of leadership in Lansing: adults." AMEN Like I said before... Just take a short hop, skip and a jump into Ohio and Indiana and everything just seems better. Edited October 5, 2007 by Bored of Pisteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Bored, you have to be naive if you think that only the unions "push" the membership/employees on how they should vote. Most of the right-wing fundamentalist religious sects have done it for many, many years. Although I have worked (ah, it was a few years ago) for two different unions. . . one was the UAW (on temporary permit) and the other was the Operating Engineers. . . most of my business experience in life has been in management/administration, which includes upper level in a Fortune 500 company. It happened in almost every election, there was pressure "applied" to vote Republican from above - - even to the point of instructing me exactly how much I was to personally contribute (the max allowed by law) to the specified candidate. One company even gave a company check that was to cover my contribution. Of course, that amount later appeared on my W-2. But the candidate that I was contribute to. . . was specified and I was told that they would be checking the contributor's list. I was a Republican at the time and even served at rather high levels within the state party, but with time I learned about the out-and-out deception of the Rove mentality that has overtaken that party since 1980 and could stomach it no more. I am now an independent and for many years I have probably paid more in income tax than most Americans earn in a year, so I can appreciate a disdain for taxes, especially when the government spends it foolishly. The problem gets worse when an administration spends significantly more than it takes in (what did the deficit ceiling get raised to recently? 9.5 trillion dollars?) I am a fiscal conservative and there has been very few of them in Washington for the last 20+ years. You can characterize the Democrats for spending and taxing all you want, but it is the Republicans that beat them soundly for the last several decades in that category. The same goes with the growth of the government and how it is involved in your life. Republicans win hands-down. Turning the government over to big corporations will doom this country. . . and we are well along that path. . . They would sell you, your sister, and mother into slavery and sell you unsafe, toxic products so that more money can go into the pockets of a few. . . if left unchecked. The environmentalists are just trying to keep this planet habitable and to conserve our resources. Besides, companies can make as much money without raping our planet. We still have a long way to go before we can start moving to another planet. There was a time that just breathing the air in certain cities in this country was the equivalent of smoking a pack of ciggies per day. Try watching for a series on the Science or Discovery channel called EcoTech (and others like it). Companies all over the world are starting to catch on. I guess you could say that some execs finally realized that somewhere down the line, they will need lots of consumers and it's not good business to use up the planet's resources and contribute to an environment that kills off the people (customers). An example. If it weren't for the "net" laws and other conservation regulations, commercial fishermen (& corps) would have stripped the ocean of many of the fish that we need to consume for food. They would literally fight over harvesting the last male and female of a species -- if you let them. Then that species would be gone. With the population explosion we have, we can't allow that to happen. Now (at least in parts of the Atlantic that enforce those laws), some of those species are coming back. Yeah, those environmentalists -- they're bad, bad people. Not! You depict a lot of violence (and anger) in your signature. I feel for you bud. Life is too short to let it consume you. May I ask why you decided to turn Michigan issues into National issues? (vice versa) This thread is specifically titled as such! I don't depict violence and anger in my signature. I look at it as a sense of humor. If you can't see any humor out there in the world. Then it would make you angry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Here's the shocker.....what if you can do a ton for their company and came from a top school? Wow, could that be why when I said top tech firms target top schools that's they won't have interest in expanding to Michigan? No, of course not, because you think I'm saying I'm great cause I have a degree, not that people can be great AND have a degree. Ya lost me on that one. Oh well no worries. You have your point of view and I have mine. For all intents and purposes they could both be off base. I am just going to leave it at that. The article from the Toledo Blade has a ton of truth. Politics in that state are a big freaking JOKE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Ya lost me on that one. Oh well no worries. You have your point of view and I have mine. For all intents and purposes they could both be off base. I am just going to leave it at that. The article from the Toledo Blade has a ton of truth. Politics in that state are a big freaking JOKE. Hey... Just to let you know. This is another example of why this state is a big freaking JOKE like you said. Somebody needs to get a recall petition on this Dillon (Democratic Dildo) Asshole immediately. Proposed hike in Michigan's Sales Tax (Detroit News 10-06-2007) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.