suv_guy_19 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 To use this rationale.... you do have to take into account the Edge and MKX which account for 15K additional sales that were not around this time last year. What is the drop in Explorer sales since that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 What is the drop in Explorer sales since that time? Not to mention the MKX flat out REPLACED the Aviator...and is likely taking a few Mountaineer sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Not to mention the MKX flat out REPLACED the Aviator...and is likely taking a few Mountaineer sales. His rationale was comparing monthly sales to monthly sales, that would not make a valid comparison. The Aviator did not sell a single unit in September of 2006. Hence any MKX sale is an added sale. Not trying to quibble, just bringing some clarification to jobu37's post. I'm sure some prior Exp/Avi/Mar owners went to Edge's and MKX's. But to take off straight sales from straight sales as was jobu's post, it has to be counted both ways. Edited October 3, 2007 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 His rationale was comparing monthly sales to monthly sales, that would not make a valid comparison. The Aviator did not sell a single unit in September of 2006. Hence any MKX sale is an added sale. Not trying to quibble, just bringing some clarification to jobu37's post. I'm sure some prior Exp/Avi/Mar owners went to Edge's and MKX's. But to take off straight sales from straight sales as was jobu's post, it has to be counted both ways. True, it can't really come down to a direct 1-to-1 trade. But there ARE some big launches next year that should make a considerable difference....finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 big launches next year Ford's famous four words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ford's famous four words. Hell, we've ALL known that Ford's launches over the past couple of years would not be that big of a deal. Aside from the Fusion and Edge we really haven't had much to look forward to since the Mustang's arrival for 2005. For 2008 we have: F-150 -- huge deal. Mustang -- historically always leads to sales gains. Fiesta -- about freakin time! almost every Fiesta sale will probably be a conquest of some sort. Fusion -- if it gets a 3.5, new 4 cylinder, and some new interior appointments, it's gonna roll. Flex -- this is the only big question mark in my book. It could be a hit, or it could flop tremendously. When was the last time Ford had a year like that for important introductions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hell, we've ALL known that Ford's launches over the past couple of years would not be that big of a deal. Aside from the Fusion and Edge we really haven't had much to look forward to since the Mustang's arrival for 2005. For 2008 we have: F-150 -- huge deal. Agreed. Mustang -- historically always leads to sales gains. Looks just like the outgoing one. Not different enough IMO. Won't matter if it has a nonplastic interior and a suitable base engine if people see it and think about the old one. Fiesta -- about freakin time! almost every Fiesta sale will probably be a conquest of some sort. Please, dear god, don't let it be called Fiesta. Fusion -- if it gets a 3.5, new 4 cylinder, and some new interior appointments, it's gonna roll. Once again, will be lost in that its sheet metal looks the same until 2009 or 2010. Unless this is the next gen Fusion and it's a 2009 model coming in 2008, then I stand behind it. Flex -- this is the only big question mark in my book. It could be a hit, or it could flop tremendously. When was the last time Ford had a year like that for important introductions? 1996 Taurus restyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Agreed. Looks just like the outgoing one. Not different enough IMO. Won't matter if it has a nonplastic interior and a suitable base engine if people see it and think about the old one. Please, dear god, don't let it be called Fiesta. Once again, will be lost in that its sheet metal looks the same until 2009 or 2010. Unless this is the next gen Fusion and it's a 2009 model coming in 2008, then I stand behind it. 1996 Taurus restyle. Ummm....how the heck do you know what the '09 Mustang looks like? Nobody has even seen it yet. Indications from spy photos are that at the very least it has entirely new front and rear ends. Ditto Fusion. You nor I have even seen it yet. And yes, I'm talking about the '09 models...which surprisingly come out in....oh yeah, 2008!! What a new concept. Edited October 3, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ummm....how the heck do you know what the '09 Mustang looks like? Nobody has even seen it yet. Indications from spy photos are that at the very least it has entirely new front and rear ends. Ohhhh, new front and rear ends, while the sides will LOOK THE EXACT SAME. I think Ford tried that on the Focus, Explorer, Escort ZX2.... I will find you pictures and you'll know what I mean. Ditto Fusion. You nor I have even seen it yet. And yes, I'm talking about the '09 models...which surprisingly come out in....oh yeah, 2008!! What a new concept. Yes we have seen pics, those leaked pics from Igor are what it will look like. Remember it has MkZ and Fusion but no Milan pics? Cause there will be no Milan or even Mercury anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Ohhhh, new front and rear ends, while the sides will LOOK THE EXACT SAME. I think Ford tried that on the Focus, Explorer, Escort ZX2.... Ford has tried that with about every vehicle they ever sold.............Lingering product without full redesigns lead them to their current predicament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danup Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Once again, will be lost in that its sheet metal looks the same until 2009 or 2010. Unless this is the next gen Fusion and it's a 2009 model coming in 2008, then I stand behind it. 1996 Taurus restyle. The Taurus was the only new release in the 96 model year, as I remember. It was huge, and it was a flop (although I don't know why--I used to hate it but lately whenever I see a dark-colored 96/97 I turn my head), but it's not really an analogue to 09. The 2009 MY is going to be huge for Ford, without a doubt. If the F-150 doesn't blow up, if the majorly-revised Fusion fails to gain traction--there's no reason a car this good should be struggling to outsell the hideous and fast-disappearing outgoing Malibu, and if there were it's the outgoing engines--if the Mustang doesn't bounce, if the Flex doesn't take, Ford is in major trouble. But there's no reason to expect any or all of those things to happen. Even moreso than in 1996, Ford has the product to succeed. I realize that, as with Cubs fans, with domestic autos it's always "next year", but it seems to me that this is even more "next year" than usual. Ford has tried that with about every vehicle they ever sold.............Lingering product without full redesigns lead them to their current predicament. I can't see how they're doing any worse than the imports at this point. Three model years each before major mid-life refreshes for the Five Hundred/Taurus and Fusion, not to mention three from the weak 05 refresh to a major 08 refresh for the Focus (and apparently two or three until the Euro Focus.) It's easy to imagine them falling off the wagon again, but 2003-04 Ford is certainly different from 2007 Ford in the amount of care and maintenance given to their car lines. Edited October 4, 2007 by danup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I can't see how they're doing any worse than the imports at this point. Three model years each before major mid-life refreshes for the Five Hundred/Taurus and Fusion, not to mention three from the weak 05 refresh to a major 08 refresh for the Focus (and apparently two or three until the Euro Focus.) It's easy to imagine them falling off the wagon again, but 2003-04 Ford is certainly different from 2007 Ford in the amount of care and maintenance given to their car lines. Ford is doing the right thing with the Taurus and Fusion, MCE after 3, and Redesign after 5. Those are great. But a non existent MCE to the 5 year old focus in 2005, then a hideous refresh for 2008.........and finally after how many years of this vehicle on the market do we get a redesign? Ford should of redesigned the focus completely for 2008, instead it looks like an incohesive mess because fod couldn't have been bothered to do the right thing to an 8 year old vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ohhhh, new front and rear ends, while the sides will LOOK THE EXACT SAME. I think Ford tried that on the Focus, Explorer, Escort ZX2....I will find you pictures and you'll know what I mean. It will probably have new door skins and an updated interior as well. Yes we have seen pics, those leaked pics from Igor are what it will look like. Remember it has MkZ and Fusion but no Milan pics? Cause there will be no Milan or even Mercury anymore. Those were CGI's.....someone's "best guess". There will be an '09 Milan also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks, but I'll drive a Toyota before I'll drive a GM. Get the best of both worlds -- get a Pontiac Vibe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 The Taurus was the only new release in the 96 model year, as I remember. It was huge, and it was a flop (although I don't know why--I used to hate it but lately whenever I see a dark-colored 96/97 I turn my head), but it's not really an analogue to 09. There was a mild refresh of the Thunderbird in '96, IIRC. Explorer was 1995; F-150 was 1997... Escort redo came in 1997 too. Contour was old by then. Was the Taurus the only one?? I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ohhhh, new front and rear ends, while the sides will LOOK THE EXACT SAME. I think Ford tried that on the Focus, Explorer, Escort ZX2....I will find you pictures and you'll know what I mean. Its been stated many times before on Mustang news groups that the Mustang will be all new from the greenhouse downwards. Also keep in mind Fields sent the design team for the Mustang back to the drawing boards when he saw the first restyle and the car got pushed back 6 months because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 It will probably have new door skins and an updated interior as well. Those were CGI's.....someone's "best guess". There will be an '09 Milan also. If they don't look like that then Ford has failed. But has anyone seen an '09 Milan pic or even spy shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 If they don't look like that then Ford has failed. But has anyone seen an '09 Milan pic or even spy shot? All we've seen of ANY of the CD3 refreshes so far is one spy picture of the '09 Fusion. There have been no MKZ spy shots that I'm aware of either. So maybe the MKZ has been cancelled too? As for the "renderings", who cares if they exist or not? They weren't released by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 All we've seen of ANY of the CD3 refreshes so far is one spy picture of the '09 Fusion. There have been no MKZ spy shots that I'm aware of either. So maybe the MKZ has been cancelled too? As for the "renderings", who cares if they exist or not? They weren't released by Ford. Care to make a gentleman's bet on it? I bet the Milan is cancelled since we've seen NO product upcoming for Mercury. I also bet those spy shots/CGI of the Fusion/MkZ (Igor can you link them please) will be highly accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Care to make a gentleman's bet on it? I bet the Milan is cancelled since we've seen NO product upcoming for Mercury. I also bet those spy shots/CGI of the Fusion/MkZ (Igor can you link them please) will be highly accurate. The CGI's may be somewhat accurate, but they still have no semblence in reality. As for the Milan, I'm quite sure it will still be here for '09 model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 The CGI's may be somewhat accurate, but they still have no semblence in reality. As for the Milan, I'm quite sure it will still be here for '09 model year. Is that a yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Is that a yes? Yes, it's a yes, for the third time. What do I win if I'm right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Yes, it's a yes, for the third time. What do I win if I'm right? It's a gentleman's bet. From wikipedia: "A gentleman's bet is a bet in which no money is bet; only the honor of the two parties is at stake. Therefore, there is no need for proof that one party's side of the bet has been fulfilled; he or she is taken at word." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 It's a gentleman's bet. From wikipedia:"A gentleman's bet is a bet in which no money is bet; only the honor of the two parties is at stake. Therefore, there is no need for proof that one party's side of the bet has been fulfilled; he or she is taken at word." Wow. I can't wait. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Wow. I can't wait. :rolleyes: I would guess they will do this refresh to the Milan and then drop it when the Fusion migrates to EUCD 2. Well, its not really a guess, its what I read here some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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