F-150 plants

[AAISkinsFan]

Anyone have access to some statistical data pertaining to quality at the F-150 plants mentioned? IE Warranty data or defects per 100 units built. Or how about attendance records at each plant - you know - things that indirectly affect quality.

 

That would end the "my plant is better than yours" rhetoric.

 

One more thing, I'm willing to bet that racism isn't exclusive to Norfolk Assembly.

[dtpm]

Yeah, job 2 went good tonight. I noticed when we started up we were not doing many 150" wheel base ( 1 in the first hour I believe), but as the night went on we were doing a lot. I also noticed a flex fuel lariat go down the line that had "car show" printed on the travel ticket, wonder if we will see it at NAIAS. It would be nice to see three of our trucks at the show. Not to knock the other two plants, it's just a pride thing.

 

Dtpm, have had a chace to see the new 20" rim/tire option on the Licoln? Now that is a sweet ass rim. I put a few of them on tonight. I did not get a chance to see the tri-coat, but I heard it looks real sharp.

 

Just one question.....if the 5.5' bed S.cab is 133....and the 5.5' bed crewcab is 139.......and the 6.5' bed S.cab is 145......How come the 6.5' bed on the crewcab has a wheelbase of 150". You would think it would be 151". Guess Ford just likes the sound of a 150" F-150.

 

The 150 wheelbase has the full four doors. The models that have a 145 wb have the longer bed but only have the half door in the back. With the full four doors it makes it that much longer.

 

As to the comment about the guy from NAP, Look all I am saying is quality is what each of us make of it. Each plant that is running has it's own problems with awol's, medicals, or just pissed people in general. Do you even understand that the car plants that recieved top awards are or is slated to close. And yes nobody is safe, anything can happen but turning this into my plant is better is not gonna fly. That is not why I post but the fact remains that when this switching is all over with and the plants that stay will be capable of building everything at the drop of a dime. Only difference is how many will they cut and how many will operate each plant. From what I know DTP is the leanest plant running 2 shifts. Overhead expenses are less because of this and thus the company makes more money off the vehicles because of less people to pay. (wow) And don't forget that DTP is a new facility and has it's problems, but I think that in the amount of time we have been running full scale we have come a long way. What other plant has done what we have in such a short amount of time? God if anyone can answer that they need to be in the ground because all the other plants were built a long time ago and the resorces we have now enable us all to move faster.

 

I think instead of bad mouthing DTP or other plant by saying you have the best quality you need to pat others on the back for the jobs we are doing. Nobody is perfect....Nobody....

[DearbornDerek]

The 150 wheelbase has the full four doors. The models that have a 145 wb have the longer bed but only have the half door in the back. With the full four doors it makes it that much longer.

 

As to the comment about the guy from NAP, Look all I am saying is quality is what each of us make of it. Each plant that is running has it's own problems with awol's, medicals, or just pissed people in general. Do you even understand that the car plants that recieved top awards are or is slated to close. And yes nobody is safe, anything can happen but turning this into my plant is better is not gonna fly. That is not why I post but the fact remains that when this switching is all over with and the plants that stay will be capable of building everything at the drop of a dime. Only difference is how many will they cut and how many will operate each plant. From what I know DTP is the leanest plant running 2 shifts. Overhead expenses are less because of this and thus the company makes more money off the vehicles because of less people to pay. (wow) And don't forget that DTP is a new facility and has it's problems, but I think that in the amount of time we have been running full scale we have come a long way. What other plant has done what we have in such a short amount of time? God if anyone can answer that they need to be in the ground because all the other plants were built a long time ago and the resorces we have now enable us all to move faster.

 

I think instead of bad mouthing DTP or other plant by saying you have the best quality you need to pat others on the back for the jobs we are doing. Nobody is perfect....Nobody....

 

I understand that, my question was how come it's 150" not 151". all the other wheelbases are 6" apart.

[Tags]

I certainly didn't intend on turning this into 'my plant is better than your plant' I only mentinoed our quality in the context of: just because you have HIGH quality doesn't make you invincible. I further mentioned it to make sure a potential customer knows that downtime doesn't equal bad quality.

 

I do not BELIEVE (and I stress believe because this is opinion) that the new DTP was built so that NAP could be closed, at least short term. I was always under the impression that DTP was a replacement for the Canadain Truck Plant, where the Lightening was built.

 

We are running flex-fuel trucks daily; much higher mix of trucks today plenty of V8's, two-tones and V6's. We ran 8 hours today and are scheduled 10 hrs next week and supposedly the following week as well.

 

 

Is Dearborn large enough to run the Exped/Nav/ExpedXL?

Also can you confirm an old rumor.... Do DTP and KC run V6 engines at all????

[the lineworker]

I certainly didn't intend on turning this into 'my plant is better than your plant' I only mentinoed our quality in the context of: just because you have HIGH quality doesn't make you invincible. I further mentioned it to make sure a potential customer knows that downtime doesn't equal bad quality.

 

I do not BELIEVE (and I stress believe because this is opinion) that the new DTP was built so that NAP could be closed, at least short term. I was always under the impression that DTP was a replacement for the Canadain Truck Plant, where the Lightening was built.

 

We are running flex-fuel trucks daily; much higher mix of trucks today plenty of V8's, two-tones and V6's. We ran 8 hours today and are scheduled 10 hrs next week and supposedly the following week as well.

Is Dearborn large enough to run the Exped/Nav/ExpedXL?

Also can you confirm an old rumor.... Do DTP and KC run V6 engines at all????

 

 

kcap can build all products minus harley ect...as far as quality every plant has its own issues that affect it.we can only be judged against each other on common product ie... nap doesnt build 4 doors which affects mix negatively especially in trim.compared to dtp or kcap, nap builds higher percentage of fleet ie.... meaning less complexity less chances to fuck things up.my opinion is that nap is on borrowed time just like EDISON was.all i can say is hope for the best prepare for the worst because the worst has yet to come

Edited December 9, 2005 by the lineworker

[AAISkinsFan]

I certainly didn't intend on turning this into 'my plant is better than your plant' I only mentinoed our quality in the context of: just because you have HIGH quality doesn't make you invincible. I further mentioned it to make sure a potential customer knows that downtime doesn't equal bad quality.

 

I do not BELIEVE (and I stress believe because this is opinion) that the new DTP was built so that NAP could be closed, at least short term. I was always under the impression that DTP was a replacement for the Canadain Truck Plant, where the Lightening was built.

 

We are running flex-fuel trucks daily; much higher mix of trucks today plenty of V8's, two-tones and V6's. We ran 8 hours today and are scheduled 10 hrs next week and supposedly the following week as well.

Is Dearborn large enough to run the Exped/Nav/ExpedXL?

Also can you confirm an old rumor.... Do DTP and KC run V6 engines at all????

I agree with this. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of that two day meeting. Anyhow, it all depends on what the chief concerns are right now. High on that priority list, IMO, is the potential for another spike in fuel prices and the effect it has on transporting of parts to plants that are far from suppliers or out of the loop. Any edge in quality that a distant plant (NAP) has would be compromised if it comes to cutting costs and allowing the Company to protect itself re: the bottom line. That (from a NAP workers perspective) is what I fear.

 

The future of the UAW is shady and getting cloudier. Sadly.

[Harry Bennet]

We are running flex-fuel trucks daily; much higher mix of trucks today plenty of V8's, two-tones and V6's. We ran 8 hours today and are scheduled 10 hrs next week and supposedly the following week as well.

Is Dearborn large enough to run the Exped/Nav/ExpedXL?

Also can you confirm an old rumor.... Do DTP and KC run V6 engines at all????

to answer your questions

DTP does not run V6 I am guessing KCAP does not either but I can look it up Monday

ditto on Manual transmission

DTP body/paint/final cannot buidl Expedition/Expedion M/Navigator - body too long, IR

DTP body/final cannot make 8' boxes - this prevents MOST Super Duty from going there (its possible to get 4x2 super and crew cabs with 6 1/2 boxes) not sure about the SD solid front axle or duallies

DTP has a few tricks left, 151 wheel base is one, also can do unique powertrain combos, unique IPs

DTP was to be designed to get Ranger but it gets further away every year

 

the crew cab is likely to tie or overtake the supercab as the most popular cab

I have proposed that DTP be ALL crew cab but gets shot down, need to prove FLEX is worthy

[dtpm]

to answer your questions

DTP does not run V6 I am guessing KCAP does not either but I can look it up Monday

ditto on Manual transmission

DTP body/paint/final cannot buidl Expedition/Expedion M/Navigator - body too long, IR

DTP body/final cannot make 8' boxes - this prevents MOST Super Duty from going there (its possible to get 4x2 super and crew cabs with 6 1/2 boxes) not sure about the SD solid front axle or duallies

DTP has a few tricks left, 151 wheel base is one, also can do unique powertrain combos, unique IPs

DTP was to be designed to get Ranger but it gets further away every year

 

the crew cab is likely to tie or overtake the supercab as the most popular cab

I have proposed that DTP be ALL crew cab but gets shot down, need to prove FLEX is worthy

 

If you know something we don't them please tell me? If you say we can't build the expedition because the body is too long I think you are mistaken. What I am getting at is if anyone looks at the test rolls at DTP you can see that there are unused buttons for wheelbases that are in the larger segment which is bigger than the now longest 150 wb we run. Looking at it it even looks like you could test a 172 or one bigger which I understand is the wb of the SD. I do remember someone saying they saw a 168 or 167 on the selector at one time.

Any thoughts?

[the prisoner]

yes kcap has built v6 since they came out from the beginning,l there body shop was set up to run the largest vehicle possible that being the expidition. also kcap is getting major upgrades to do the wet two tones that might mean we could also run the tri color paints also. we can run all cabs and all size boxes including the flare sides been ruing them since last model. have ran the blackwood and the harley trucks and running king ranches from day 1. so i hope that answers your question on truck side thats not counting the escape tribute and mariner production that a whole other assembly plant basically. plus 700 acres sitting around the plant with entrances already having been constructed. the biggest truck they have run was a crew cab with an 8 foot box ran a few of them over a year ago so thats another one that may be waiting in the wings. but who knows hell look at the other bad so called great designs can anyone say explorer and 50% drop in sales hey save a buck pay for it in sales.

[NorfolkBuilt]

What people need to remember in these forums is that there are many peoples future in jeopardy here.It just PISSES ME OFF when people get up here and speculate about other people future."I understand that DTP came online so Norfolk could go off line".Comments like that are unfounded and insensitive.DTP is'nt going anywhere obviously.But there are many other plants that dont know what their future will be.This will probably be the worst Christmas ever for so many people.Lives are about to be changed forever people.We ALL need to be aware of the statements we make up here,and not add fuel to the fire,just because we want to seem intelligent or act like we "have connections".NO ONE knows what Jan 23 is gonna bring.The people that do know,certainly are not talking to line workers and so forth.My union man was in Detroit this week,with all "the big wigs",and NO ONE WOULD EVEN CRACK A HINT.Norfolk has been a key player in Fords success,and has done much to keep it alive.They are currently adding a huge addition to our plant at a cost of over 30 million dollars.While they are struggling.On top of the 375 million they already spent to upgrade our new body shop with flex tooling and what not.What does that mean ?Not much maybe.Or it may mean a lot.No we are not immune to closing or anything.I already said that.Dont repeat it.All Im saying is that these forums are plagued with "i heard" or "a big wig told me" crap.I say it at times,but I make a honest effort to repeat it word for word.We are all in this together.The imports are doing good on their own at tearing us apart,lets not do it to ourselves.Good luck to all. B)

[DearbornDerek]

What people need to remember in these forums is that there are many peoples future in jeopardy here.It just PISSES ME OFF when people get up here and speculate about other people future."I understand that DTP came online so Norfolk could go off line".Comments like that are unfounded and insensitive.DTP is'nt going anywhere obviously.But there are many other plants that dont know what their future will be.This will probably be the worst Christmas ever for so many people.Lives are about to be changed forever people.We ALL need to be aware of the statements we make up here,and not add fuel to the fire,just because we want to seem intelligent or act like we "have connections".NO ONE knows what Jan 23 is gonna bring.The people that do know,certainly are not talking to line workers and so forth.My union man was in Detroit this week,with all "the big wigs",and NO ONE WOULD EVEN CRACK A HINT.Norfolk has been a key player in Fords success,and has done much to keep it alive.They are currently adding a huge addition to our plant at a cost of over 30 million dollars.While they are struggling.On top of the 375 million they already spent to upgrade our new body shop with flex tooling and what not.What does that mean ?Not much maybe.Or it may mean a lot.No we are not immune to closing or anything.I already said that.Dont repeat it.All Im saying is that these forums are plagued with "i heard" or "a big wig told me" crap.I say it at times,but I make a honest effort to repeat it word for word.We are all in this together.The imports are doing good on their own at tearing us apart,lets not do it to ourselves.Good luck to all. B)

 

well said and to the point. i hear the same kind of b.s. from family members who work at other plants. I hear shit about other plants from different people. To me...in one ear out the other. I will believe what I hear in January. Hell someone just yesterday told me..."Yeah, NAP is done, they already sold the land to the government". I listened to what he said and replyed.."wow, who filled your head full of shit". I really don't think any of the F plants are going to close, but thats because I work at one. No one is safe if you think about it, so I try not to. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Best of luck to all of us.

[692yeehaw]

I certainly didn't intend on turning this into 'my plant is better than your plant' I only mentinoed our quality in the context of: just because you have HIGH quality doesn't make you invincible. I further mentioned it to make sure a potential customer knows that downtime doesn't equal bad quality.

 

I do not BELIEVE (and I stress believe because this is opinion) that the new DTP was built so that NAP could be closed, at least short term. I was always under the impression that DTP was a replacement for the Canadain Truck Plant, where the Lightening was built.

 

We are running flex-fuel trucks daily; much higher mix of trucks today plenty of V8's, two-tones and V6's. We ran 8 hours today and are scheduled 10 hrs next week and supposedly the following week as well.

Is Dearborn large enough to run the Exped/Nav/ExpedXL?

Also can you confirm an old rumor.... Do DTP and KC run V6 engines at all????

Don't know about engines, but the headlamps are scheduled to be built at sandusky

[tincup2b]

We can all speculate but until Jan. 23rd nobody knows for sure what is going to happen. Even after the official announcements it will not be official. Look as SLAP, they were slated to close several years ago but instead they went to one shift due to the state of MO giving them huge tax breaks. Every indication is pointing to Atlanta closing. We know that the local govt. has been working on a package for over 18 mos. to keep them open. We all wish that every plant could stay open and all of us stay employed. That is just not the case with the current market condition that the auto industry is in. As far as the F150 plants we don't know what is going to happen yet, but we all have to be realistic and open our eyes. We currently have more shifts building trucks than the sales can support. That is why NAP has several down weeks after the first of the year. Once Toyota gets online in TX that is going to cut into the market share of trucks that Ford currently has. Nobody knows how much yet but it will hurt sales for Ford. Maybe the rumor of the Ranger leaving Twin Cities and going to DTP is correct and that will save NAP. It's hard to say. But people from NAP saying that their plant has done so much for Ford in the past will keep them open in the future is just not smart. Open your eyes. Look what Atlanta and Windsor have done for Ford over the years and they are not safe. What I am trying to say is don't think that any one plant is safe because they are investing money in the plant or because that plant has a long history with the company. The powers to be at Ford make decisions everyday that you and I don't agree on and I'm sure the decisions of what plant's to close and which to keep open are going to be more of those decisions which we question. We all think that we know a better way to turn this company around. Unfortunately we have to give our best advice to the appropriate people, hope they listen and evaluate what they have heard, and then and only then hope they make the best decision for the company as a whole and not decisions based on the fact their brother-in-law owns a contract so they aren't going to close that because it would hurt the family.

[J2D]

I'm glad that even in a forum we can put our difference aside and work together. We've come too far to let anyone or anything bring us down. As far as sales goes the F-150 is still the reigning KING. no one and I mean no one can touch US. so what if Toyota's building a truck plant in Texas. remember the saying There's death in Texas, and toyota is going down at noon.

Where does this fear of Toyota come from anyway. they're not even close in sales or considered a threat to me. We sell more Trucks in a day than they sell in a month. If I remember correctly the chart for Truck sells goes something like: FORD,CHEVY,DODGE. there is no Toyota truck around to be found. if Ford feels threaten by a Toyota Texan then maybe we should just take off their guns and put on a dress.

I'm not going down without a Fight Period.

[Tags]

Ford sells 20% of all of its trucks in Texas, one every 12 seconds. I heard this quote from Nick Scheele.

 

Most people buy where they work. So with 3000+ employees plus all their family will turn to Toyota it will hurt not only truck but car sales as well. Reports have talked about the new Toyota truck being a REAL truck.... and that they are testing it, in Japan, towing large trailers (from TCC)

 

I'm not AFRAID of Toyota or their new truck, I'm afraid Ford will remain complacent (as it did in the car segment for years) Its not about what Toyota does, it's all about what Ford does to remain the leader in the truck segment and regain credibility in the car segment.

 

And your right... we do have to stick together in this because it will be hard on all of the people at the plants that close.

[kenp77]

Ford sells 20% of all of its trucks in Texas, one every 12 seconds. I heard this quote from Nick Scheele.

 

Most people buy where they work. So with 3000+ employees plus all their family will turn to Toyota it will hurt not only truck but car sales as well. Reports have talked about the new Toyota truck being a REAL truck.... and that they are testing it, in Japan, towing large trailers (from TCC)

 

I'm not AFRAID of Toyota or their new truck, I'm afraid Ford will remain complacent (as it did in the car segment for years) Its not about what Toyota does, it's all about what Ford does to remain the leader in the truck segment and regain credibility in the car segment.

 

And your right... we do have to stick together in this because it will be hard on all of the people at the plants that close.

I want to give all you NAP guys a big hand I have an 04 f-150 NAP built and hasn't missed a beat a trim piece fell off but think a detail boy caught it with a rag and loosened it, AC is pretty anemic not your fault and power seem a bit weak also not your fault think Rich is right need a5 speed tranny gearing is not right for the weight also not your problem is a great all around truck. But don't sell toyota short they are going to make a run at fords trucks as they know ford is #1 and they have the where with all to do it, it is said they are the richest automaker on the planet and ford management better man up or it will be over. Keep up the good work all you line workers!!!!!!!!

[RayBarone]

My union man was in Detroit this week,with all "the big wigs",and NO ONE WOULD EVEN CRACK A HINT.

 

Workers would not come to these forums for information is OURS and YOUR union man would give the members the information from a meeting they went to Detroit to attend.

 

Why aren't members informed on what goes on in Detroit at UAW meetings?

 

Are the members considered too stupid to understand?

 

Or are they trying to get there stories straight before we are told anything?

[mdail23]

Workers would not come to these forums for information is OURS and YOUR union man would give the members the information from a meeting they went to Detroit to attend.

 

Why aren't members informed on what goes on in Detroit at UAW meetings?

 

Are the members considered too stupid to understand?

 

Or are they trying to get there stories straight before we are told anything?

 

This wasn't a normal meeting, it was a CBAT class (collective bargaining agreement training). There wasn't any news to report because I was there.

 

No - the members aren't considered stupid - they are informed as much as the union rep's are.

 

We here @ NAP are always kept informed by our union rep's. No need to cause rumors when nothing is set in stone, it's still all up in the sky for now.

[NorfolkBuilt]

Hey KENP77.THANK YOU !!.Hearing stories like yours really makes our day.As you can see,we get pretty passionate up here about what we do.We all really take pride in what we build.I work at NAP,and Ken let me tell you,CUSTOMERS are our first priority.Safety,quality all go into what we do,and Im glad that you are happy.And I hope that we have gained a life long customer/partner.Let us know how it treats you !

 

p.s.-Ford has never been complacent with the F-150.That why it has been THE BEST selling vehicle,car or truck fo decades.NOTHING comes close.If Ford didnt know anything,it would still know how to build great trucks.

Edited December 14, 2005 by NorfolkBuilt

[mdail23]

Hey KENP77.THANK YOU !!.Hearing stories like yours really makes our day.As you can see,we get pretty passionate up here about what we do.We all really take pride in what we build.I work at NAP,and Ken let me tell you,CUSTOMERS are our first priority.Safety,quality all go into what we do,and Im glad that you are happy.And I hope that we have gained a life long customer/partner.Let us know how it treats you !

 

p.s.-Ford has never been complacent with the F-150.That why it has been THE BEST selling vehicle,car or truck fo decades.NOTHING comes close.If Ford didnt know anything,it would still know how to build great trucks.

 

 

 

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[ricochet]

If you buy an F150 buy it from NAP

Hands down best quaility, honest internal and external numbers

Just wish I could get the crew cabs in NAP

with the new 151 wb (crew with 6 1/2 box) it is more likely (but not too likely)

Mr Bennett, let me just say that NAP claims to have the "best quality, hands down" but you and I both know that NAP is a facility generaly dedicated to building "Fleet Vehicles". What you fail to mention in your post is that the reason your "quality" looks so good on paper is that once fleet vehicles roll out your door, they are never returned for warranty work for complaints about fit, finish or faulty, defective or failed parts. These problems are just taken care of by the Fleet customers own shop.

 

NO quality complaints means GOOD quality?????? Not quite, Chief!!!!!!

Edited January 29, 2006 by ricochet

[fordtpworker1993]

Mr Bennett, let me just say that NAP claims to have the "best quality, hands down" but you and I both know that NAP is a facility generaly dedicated to building "Fleet Vehicles". What you fail to mention in your post is that the reason your "quality" looks so good on paper is that once fleet vehicles roll out your door, they are never returned for warranty work for complaints about fit, finish or faulty, defective or failed parts. These problems are just taken care of by the Fleet customers own shop.

 

NO quality complaints means GOOD quality?????? Not quite, Chief!!!!!!

and your just now responding to that.....................old news ,looks like quality dont matter anyway

[NorfolkBuilt]

Mr Bennett, let me just say that NAP claims to have the "best quality, hands down" but you and I both know that NAP is a facility generaly dedicated to building "Fleet Vehicles". What you fail to mention in your post is that the reason your "quality" looks so good on paper is that once fleet vehicles roll out your door, they are never returned for warranty work for complaints about fit, finish or faulty, defective or failed parts. These problems are just taken care of by the Fleet customers own shop.

 

NO quality complaints means GOOD quality?????? Not quite, Chief!!!!!!

 

 

 

Congrats on making your first post an idiotic one ! :D

[napman]

Congrats on making your first post an idiotic one ! :D

 

No QUALITY comes out of NORFOLK this week,WE ARE LAID OFF!

[Harry Bennet]

Mr Bennett, let me just say that NAP claims to have the "best quality, hands down" but you and I both know that NAP is a facility generaly dedicated to building "Fleet Vehicles". What you fail to mention in your post is that the reason your "quality" looks so good on paper is that once fleet vehicles roll out your door, they are never returned for warranty work for complaints about fit, finish or faulty, defective or failed parts. These problems are just taken care of by the Fleet customers own shop.

 

NO quality complaints means GOOD quality?????? Not quite, Chief!!!!!!

Wow :mellow:

I ain't at NAP, fleets generate LOTS of warranty, NAP FX4s and Lariats are tops, much better than DTP and even better than KCAP

But if you knew quality numbers, you would also know that P221 launched with better quaility than PN96

You would also know that Hermosillo has been the top quality plant of all of Fords

Seems the farther you get away from Dearborn, the better the quality is

Which makes closing AAP seem so wrong

Where do you think your plant ranks?