OHAP Elections

[Furious1Auto]

He not only warned them he called them out at the membership meetings. He made them answer for their actions and if the responses weren't adequate he had the member and the committeemen in his office the next day to resolve it. He cannot and it would not have been appropriate for him to call for a recall of anyone. The member elect tem and the mabers need to remove them.

 

Now when is the last time the membership pushed for the removal of an official?

 

This is above the knowledge of the contract, and most don't even know what the I-Constitution is let alone how to use it to protect the members. The only way the members would ever attempt to remove an officer is with the guidance of the Chairman, and upon his recommendation.

 

You don't have to remove anyone, just let them know you will. Claiming that as Chairman that you are some how not responsible for the actions of your subordinates is ridiculous.

[Irish_Dad]

Now when is the last time the membership pushed for the removal of an official?

 

This is above the knowledge of the contract, and most don't even know what the I-Constitution is let alone how to use it to protect the members. The only way the members would ever attempt to remove an officer is with the guidance of the Chairman, and upon his recommendation.

 

You don't have to remove anyone, just let them know you will. Claiming that as Chairman that you are some how not responsible for the actions of your subordinates is ridiculous.

 

1993 The membership attempted to remove Don Schnur from the presidents office. It went to a vote and failed. Read the constitution and the by laws on what if any action the Chairman can take. Ask Jerry what he would do and see if he would be able to legally do anything.

[Furious1Auto]

1993 The membership attempted to remove Don Schnur from the presidents office. It went to a vote and failed. Read the constitution and the by laws on what if any action the Chairman can take. Ask Jerry what he would do and see if he would be able to legally do anything.

 

 

I asked Jerry in front of the others present at the meeting, and he said he would hold them to account. He was nonspecific, and whether or not he was sincere could be argued either way.

 

I read parts of the constitution relating to discipline within the Local but not completely, It is of no consequences at this point but I will investigate it more closely later. I have more pressing matters to deal with at this point! But just from a brief overview they can be removed from office with a 2/3 Rds vote, have their rights to run for office suspended for a period not to exceed 5 years, and worst case scenario suspension or expulsion from the UAW.

 

I don't see where any of these actions would be warranted against the current committee at this point. But I'm certain that less harsh consequences could be implemented if warranted.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

On a positive note!

 

Gongrats to those members choosing to leave us, their contributions have not been in vein!

 

Thank you to all!

 

 

Ford is making progress, and it has all been through careful negotiations, and sacrifice that we have progressed to this point.

 

You should all be proud of where we are, as opposed to where we have come from. Although there is still much to do, we have also accomplished much as a team.

 

It is being discussed at this LINK!

 

 

Here are some campaign letters that have been handed to me to post here, I would do the same for everyone indiscriminately upon request. I do understand all of you are capable, just many at this point have not figured out how to use the forum tools yet.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

On to the Smear letters

 

Let me first say that I have collected these letters and am posting them for you critique. I had not input, influence, or part in writing these, or any others that I have posted.

 

 

This letter is totally nonconstructive IMO. It shows the the adolescent nature of the person who created it. I did however laugh when I read it, but it does not address any issue. It is just a immature degrading portrayal of our current chairman.

 

I think he's due a little more respect then this!

 

 

 

Now this one addresses much of what has happened, but is a little skewed. It has a factual basis, but neglects to mention some key reasons for some of the actions of our chairman. I will try to clarify after you read it. Oh yeah and this one was signed, as if it matters. The people on the floor know what is real.

 

 

 

The part that is skewed is about the out sourcing of preferential jobs, that is part of the COA that was ratified by all of us. If you want to pick a bone, it would be over the fact we voted on a supplemental based on the highlights alone. I still to this day have not read, or have been offered a complete copy of the COA.

 

Second the rate of pay for newly insourced work was negotiated by the I-UAW and ratified by all of us.

 

The question would be more accurately, did the company really intend on outsourcing the work Nick negotiated to keep or was it intended to be used as a bargaining chip to attain their 20% low tier work as per the newly ratified National Agreement.

 

Doesn't matter, what's done is done and we all ratified both of these agreements knowing what was in them or not.

 

This is a new age at Ford and there will continue to be sacrifice until we attain NA profitability.

 

I will address the potential of further sacrifice in a later post, while trying to debunk some rumors. The upside is that we were able to retain allot of what we thought we would lose in the last set of contract negotiations.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

Will the I-UAW turn their back on local 2000 if Nick is not reelected?

 

This is an IM exchange I had with someone who knows things at a tier above our local!

 

Why wouldn't Indy be hiring temps.. Our chairman has been negotiating the insourcing new low tier jobs in order to get our temps hired?

Not sure I understand the question..... the company will not hire temp employees? What insourcing are you talking about?

Nick says he has negotiated new work, and that the company will make these jobs low tier. He also says he hopes to get our temps hired. Look back at Mary's min. on the OHAP thread.

Still not following.....Nick from OHAP is looking at new non trad work that was lost to the outside to bring back in under entry level employees.....(make sure that he gets a In-Sourcing Business Case Template Form from NFD to help).

 

All Indy can do is hire temp employees because they will be closing. These temp employees are not considered entry level employees. Is that what you are asking?? Your temps will be hired under entry level when we either get to hire 20% or at the time they bring in new work that was lost to the outside. I can tell you that they will not be bringing in any new work under the entry level plan until we get all the ACH/JSP members placed first. So Ford will drag their feet at bringing in this new entry level work until this happens.

I see, I did get an IM from an Indy worker stating that they will close in 2010.

 

Our situation is different. Nick was able to negotiate back 9 jobs to our plant. That is to his credit.

 

I take it NFD means "National Ford Department of the I-UAW". What support exactly is given to a Chairman that is attempting to insource non-traditional work. And would you guys refuse to give the same support to Jerry Donavan if elected.

 

My guess is that you guys will overlook any personal beef for the good of the membership.

 

I realize the I-UAW, and the company are not allowed to endorse any candidate but would you refuse to support a local Chairman based on their past dissent?

Whoa.....the I-union will support the Chairman...whoever it is. I do not know either of them....so no beef here!!

 

What support is given to the plant.....like I said they will need to get the Insourcing Business Case Template that will help with all the info needed to build a business case. It has a bunch of different fields to fill in. It is still in the draft form, but it is pretty much just waiting on Kings approval...they just have to call the Sourcing rep assigned to the plant and ask for the New business Case Template. When the final approval comes it will be sent to all the plants. there will also be a Joint Conference later this year for some training and update on all changes in the 2007 CBA!

They should be looking at any kitting work, IP's or any engine dress that is outsourced. Again...they should be looking at work that is currently done on the outside!!

 

Consider this myth busted!

 

Us the assembly workers will decide the future of OHAP, like Nick told me the Chairman is only a mouth piece for us. It is what we do on the floor and in the upcoming product launch that will determine the future of OHAP. Give it hell, and make our product the best it can be. We have to ensure quality, to secure our futures!

 

Here is a LINK to the thread I read about insourcing new work.

 

That's right the I-UAW is working hard to keep this company afloat, while protecting your rights!

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

Now on to the Donavan smear

 

Let me first say that I have collected these letters and am posting them for you critique. I had not input, influence, or part in writing these, or any others that I have posted.

 

This letter is full of misinformation, and/or is playing on the ignorance of the membership as to how things operate.

 

I will address what I can after you read it, this is also the letter that some have asserted was written by Piscione.

 

I don't know if it was, but it some of the mentions a erroneous although I cannot debunk them all because I keep to myself while at work.

 

 

First off it has been discussed and verified by people on this sight that the bids have to get the Chairmen's blessing in order to be posted.

 

Second Micheal Donavan answered to the assertions that Mary's record was whipped clean. She had FMLA coverage that was ignored, and she was charged with AWOLs that were covered by Federal law. If you are ill, and have the proper paperwork filed it is illegal to discipline you for sick time! To include excluding you from bidding jobs based on erroneous attendance records.

 

Ok. Since I keep seeing my name, I plan to respond, for the record this bargaining structure did away with the top 100 in September per the Chairman's request. This letter was sent to the HR manager. The bargaining structure no longer wished to participate in the top 100 list. Since the list, a group leader opening occured for the Trim Dept.where as Mary Springowski bid on this position as did others. but it came down to Mary Springowski to be solicited by the company. Mary was not the senior employee to be entered on it or the first disqualified, but Mary asked for a griev. against her disqualification as did Dee Dispenzia. A griev. was wrote for Mary and was heard in the second stage. She was awarded the greiv. and put in the position she bid on. Bargaining committeman,Bruce Yates, has stated to me he wrote Dee's griev. which I asked about but was unable to hear. The Senior employee is on medical and has not responded yet about their griev. Talk is that Mary's record was cleaned which is false. The investigation started at a given time and was presented to the Union for a full year of the aggrieved disipline record. This local Union does not participate against any employees merit, but solely goes on their seniority then their merit. During the investigation the Union presented all employees given the same type of position with the same record, or worse during the same time period which multiple employees were given this title. Whether Mary is related to anyone or not, All employees including Mary, are to be considered for any position that their seniority dictates. As for this bargaining committeman whether related to me or not, they will be considered for any position and will be treated the same as any other senior employee to hold the position in this plant. At anytime an employee of this local Union wishes to ask me any position I hold on a griev. upon please fill free to do so, as I keep all facts and hide nothing and will present all positions I present to this local Union unpopular or not to back the decisions I have made. For the people questioning my position to let you know I walked down personally and talked to the employee preforming the position at this time and explained what I had done in the griev. procedure. So what questions do you have for me now? I have no problem answering any position I present and will articulate my position to this membership for their judgment. Please fill free to throw the next bunch of bullshit at me.

 

 

Listen we all have money, and the potential that someone could file suit/complaint over what is being put out is real. I would suggest you keep it clean and don't make derogatory remarks in regard to any of the defined protected classes.

 

invoking nasty comments about ones Race, age, sex, religion, or sexual orientation not only displays ignorance, but is a violation of the law.

 

Link to the ACLU websight!

 

The use of such is reminiscent of a post made here on BON. Here is the quote from that post.

 

No, I didn't want to be the group leader. What I do care about as should you is....The constant twisting of the truth by the Irish Fucking Idiots. I could care less what fucking jobs these morons have. The method in which they get them is entirely different though. They are always the first and loudest to cry foul; unless of course it is to their benefit to shut the fuck up and sweep things under the rug. Why do you always defend these political hacks? Maybe your name is Donovan, eh? The reason should be clear that this post was pulled up. It verifies the earlier post showing that undeniably Mary was not eligible for this job, and a hell of a lot of shady shit went down to get it for her. Now, open your mind a little here, This is the way the WHOLE family does business. Disregard what is good for the rest of the membership so long as they get taken care of. :shades:

 

 

I would bet that if this was written by the same person, or someone close to him.

Here is the smear letter!

 

 

My only contention is that the Standards Rep is appointed by the I-UAW, and until late the same accusations could be made about our current standards rep baseless or not..

 

Either way, I don't see how it is a reflection of the Chairman. If Our current standards rep was not effective at his job, would Nick also take the hit? I don't think so!

 

 

HHMMM, interesting to get a clarification on how the "Nickel Fund" is to be used. I was told by Nick directly about the amount of members that took stock bids, excepted the Sat. overtime and then did not take the jobs. He said that the company took the stance he wasted their money.

 

This is a valid complaint, and it is shameful on the part of those who have done this. It took Nick time and negotiating to get the company to pay for this training, and then they get burnt. What incentive is there for them to quickly move on training?

 

There were senior employees being kept from these jobs because they did not hold a license.

 

The bitch about it is we spent $250,000 on coats that could have been offered to the company to offset any loss that might be incurred if people had refused the jobs. Not that we pay for the training, but that we protect their investment. Do you think the company IR rep would have refused to release the money from the "Nickel Fund" for this purpose?

 

I don't know brother Ackerman or Brother Adams so I won't characterize them, but I want to read this suit that was filed.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

This is the most important post I have to make, and it will take some concentration to understand. It will encompass contract language, and excerpts from certain legal documents, and the I-constitution. But it is relevant to debunking the assertion that Jerry Donavan attempted to stop us from coming to OHAP with our product.

 

 

My brothers/sisters from the former local 425

 

First you have to read this letter distributed at OHAP, before the Mariner left OHAP, and before the last set of elections.

 

 

Now this letter verifies that Jerry knew full well that we where coming. This letter was also distributed before anyone knew that the company was to offer the first round of buyouts and what was going to be offered. Everyone suspected, but no one knew!

 

425 offered no comfort, and told us that the low seniority had no coverage, they were half right.

 

It was not until I met Marvin Jones, and Chris Ladikos working on the floor in our plant that I found out that there was language in the contract that classified it as a "covered event" and that we would all have GEN coverage. They were working as GEN trackers, to track the 2000 members working and training in our plant.

 

Nick was able to negotiate more then the the companies conservative estimates as to how many they would need to staff OHAP after the consolidation was to happen.

 

I was just given Jerry's letter on Friday, and at first I got angry that he would have the nerve to deny me my right to come with my product.

 

I mean everyone knew what the contract said.......

 

Page# 85 Ford/UAW National Agreement

 

Section 24. Transfer of an Operation

(a) Transfers Affecting Rouge Area Only (the same agreement defines LAP as being in zone from Rouge)

 

In the event of a transfer of an operation from one Unit to another within the Rouge Area the employees affected shall be transfered to the new Unit, taking their full seniority with them.

 

On the partial transfer of an operation, the method of transferring the employees shall be subject to local negotiation.

 

 

Basically we go with our jobs!

 

Then I was directed to another provision of the contract that is within the same section, and would have been applied once we got to OHAP and there was an excess of 700 to 800 employees. Luckily Nick was able to negotiate more then the company wanted on rolls, but it still was not enough. Again luckily the heating system was not working properly in our GEN facility, and they brought us back.

 

Save money on heating in Lorain, and work people in GEN to get extra production without putting them on the rolls to try and keep our budget in the black.

 

This is what is not being presented now as if Jerry was evil and will close the plant LOL. It is also on the same page as the above quoted contract language.

 

Page# 85

 

Section 23. Transfers

 

© Between Plants

 

Seniority employees who are transferred from one plant to another shall be considered seniority employees of the new plant as provided in section 1© of this article, subject to the provisions of Section 24 of this article (note my quote of Section 24 above)

 

Transfers of seniority employees from one plant to another may only be made with the signed consent of the employee and his committeeperson (the National Ford Department will be advised of these transfers) except where placement is provided under other provisions of this agreement or Supplementary Agreements.

In the even such transferred employees are effected by a reduction in force in the new plant, (which would have happened having 700 to 800 excess workers) they shall be laid off (except we had GEN language they had to adhere to) or returned to their original plant according to their election as provided in Article VIII, section 1(B). (this article mentioned pertains to seniority leveling, and RTBU rights. Not like we would be returning to Lorain LOL!)

 

You can read the rest, but it pertains to trades, Blah, blah, blah blah, blah!!!

 

The important thing to note is that by contract we would have come to OHAP as non-skilled labor, and would have worked until they began leveling our seniority. Once the senior operators had filled the jobs the excess would have been put in GEN until contract time and would be facing the same thing the ACH plants are now. Our lovely new JSP (Job Severance Package)

 

What Jerry was saying was completely contractual, and he had no idea what Ford would offer for buyouts. Thank god things went the way they did. Nick negotiated more jobs, people retired, then buyouts allowed people t peruse other opportunities.

 

These things saved allot of heartache.

 

Back to the story, Jerry told his unit what he knew to be true at the time, based on the contract. Then they had 700 to 800 people with nowhere to go, we had a right to come and the low seniority would be out of work. He and the members that he represented collectively pitched in to fund a court injunction or TRO (temporary Restraining Order) to preserve the affected member's pay scales, and an appeal to The Public review board. The purpose of the appeal was to as I quote from it......

 

Under the collective bargaining agreement between UAW local 2000 and Ford Motor Company's Ohio Assembly Plant, local 2000 has two separate units with separate bargaining committees. On March 10, 2005, the UAW Ford Department informed representatives of local 2000 that as part of the consolidation of the Lorain Assembly Plant and Ohio Assembly Plant, they intended to combine Units 1 and 2 for the purposes of the upcoming election and have the members of both units vote as a single unit. The membership voted instead to conduct the Local Union elections in accordance with the bylaws recognized both units 1 and 2. We believe that Ford Department Vice President Gerald Bantom exceeded his authority under the UAW Constitution when he insisted, in defiance of the membership's wishes, that the Units be combined for the purposes of conducting the 2005 election.

Now that should piss you off.

 

Local 2000 Unit 1, Unit 2, and 425 all should have voted for the standing committee. In most cases if you are not happy with the way things are going people will tell you, "well you voted them in". We were denied even that.

 

 

He even challenged the I-UAW over it, now what does that tell you about the man. I can't believe I was buying into that friggin rumor that he tried to stop us from coming. Read his letter again, it says we are coming. It also cites what the contract says was to have happened if not for the buyouts.

 

My last order of business is the rumor that Jerry Donavan intends to open the contract if he takes office.

 

I'll tell you what Nick is going to reopen the contract. Ask to see a copy of our new local agreement. Flip to page 77 and look for the reopener clause at the top of the page.

 

There are two paragraphs pertaining to contract opening upon discussions of the a new product being introduced. The second paragraph was added in the last round of negotiations. I can't quote it verbatim because I lent it out, but essentially this is what it says.

 

Upon the discussions of a new product the agreement will be reopened to assure market competitiveness!

 

There is more to it, but like I said I don't have it here. Once I get it back I will post it word for word. Thinking we're safe with what we have negotiated and that we should ride it out is nice. But we are going to continue this negotiation for more favorable terms for the company. Would have been nice to know when the buyout offer was still on the table!

 

All I have to say is that, You need to look at the ending of the practice of posting lateral moves after we were here a few months, and the lack of transparency in the bid process. Then remember jobs cannot be posted till they are signed by the chairman. Also knowing his opponent filed an appeal to fight the rights of his membership, and decide who is really looking out for your interests.

 

I had three current Reps tell me that Nick was the one who told them that lateral moves cannot be posted after doing it for months, because it was illegal and the Labor board advised them not too. (Two BC's and a committeeman) Remember I called the Labor board to verify it, and you can too. National Labor Relations Board 216-522-3715 Ask them for yourself they never instructed Local 2000 to stop posting lateral moves. It was clearly to put people close to the committee in to preferential positions IMO! If you don't know when a good job is open your seniority means nothing! And when you do and you dissent, "We refuse to overload classifications"!

 

You guys that sat with me in the meetings are our future. You will be our committee people in the future. Who is looking out for us now?

 

Now go ahead attack me, this is what I know to be true based on what I have in front of me and my Brothers/Sisters have the right to know the truth!

 

Anyone who really cares can feel free to copy and print these posts for distribution in the plant, I've said my piece!

 

Oh Yeah,

 

Fraternally yours,

 

Jayson Casselman (Furious1Auto)

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

Wow, always the victims of bullying this party is. Funny the only bullying I have seen came from them.

 

Here is a "Signed" letter that came from a member who dissented against the current party. Also there is one from Nick's attorney.

 

 

 

 

I think he meant turn over to read the reverse side, but "(Bend) over ------->" will do LOL!

 

This ain't 1985 and bullying threats and violent actions wont happen without report!

 

In a matter of minutes the truth can be broadcast across the world!

 

I'm sure some people will be angry over what I have posted.

 

All I have to say is that if I am attacked physically I will post pics on this sight for your brothers critique, and I will write a statement. If someone is ballsy enough to come to my residence, I would like to warn you I have the means of protecting myself!

Edited April 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[born2ryde]

I think it's pretty funny how you fuckin hypocrits sit on here and say how we need to unite and leave the dirty laundry out of the public eye. Way to go Furious! Good job on not spreading the shit! Oh I forgot it's for informational purposes right? Bullshit! You're a two-faced piece of shit who thinks they know everything about everything! Get a fuckin life man!

[Irish_Dad]

Wow, always the victims of bullying this party is. Funny the only bullying I have seen came from them.

 

Here is a "Signed" letter that came from a member who dissented against the current party. Also there is one from Nick's attorney.

 

 

 

 

I think he meant turn over to read the reverse side, but "(Bend) over ------->" will do LOL!

 

This ain't 1985 and bullying threats and violent actions wont happen without report!

 

In a matter of minutes the truth can be broadcast across the world!

 

I'm sure some people will be angry over what I have posted.

 

All I have to say is that if I am attacked physically I will post pics on this sight for your brothers critique, and I will write a statement. If someone is ballsy enough to come to my residence, I would like to warn you I have the means of protecting myself!

Boy , you really did turn into quite the apologist for Jerry and Company didn't you. The accusations Paul made, if true would have landed Nick in prison. They weren't true, but you don't give a damn about that do you. Who's is trying to bully who here? Nick was threatened with something and reacted accordingly. If there is any attempt to bullying here it seems to be coming from you and yours. Nice to see your true colors thought, that "I'm seeking the truth" crap was getting kind of old. One more thing anyone who thinks that Paul wrote this letter doesn't know Paul or Mary Springowski very well.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Irish_Dad

[Spring]

Boy , you really did turn into quite the apologist for Jerry and Company didn't you. The accusations Paul made, if true would have landed Nick in prison. They weren't true, but you don't give a damn about that do you. Who's is trying to bully who here? Nick was threatened with something and reacted accordingly. If there is any attempt to bullying here it seems to be coming from you and yours. Nice to see your true colors thought, that "I'm seeking the truth" crap was getting kind of old. One more thing anyone who thinks that Paul wrote this letter doesn't know Paul or Mary Springowski very well.

 

 

Irish Dad, now YOU are guilty of libel. Apparently, YOU don't know ME very well! I had nothing to do with any of this nor did I have any knowledge of this until today. I am NOT in the chairman's race and have tried to keep out of all the tit for tat. Please do not bandy my name around issues to which you do not have incontrovertible proof. I must confess that I am somewhat flattered that you give me so much credit, though. Don't forget, unlike some people (hmmm, who could I be referring to?) I sign my letters. I'm not afraid to stand by what I say. Unlike the people YOU seem to support (so much for YOUR objectivity) I am not a victim of cowardice or secret lack of conviction. Could it be (say it isn't so) that they CAN'T sign what they write because they KNOW it is UNTRUE?

Edited April 29, 2008 by Spring

[Captain723]

Irish Dad, now YOU are guilty of libel. Apparently, YOU don't know ME very well! I had nothing to do with any of this nor did I have any knowledge of this until today. I am NOT in the chairman's race and have tried to keep out of all the tit for tat. Please do not bandy my name around issues to which you do not have incontrovertible proof. I must confess that I am somewhat flattered that you give me so much credit, though. Don't forget, unlike some people (hmmm, who could I be referring to?) I sign my letters. I'm not afraid to stand by what I say. Maybe the people YOU seem to support (so much for YOUR objectivity) I am not a victim of cowardice or secret lack of conviction. Could it be (say it isn't so) that they CAN'T sign what they write because they KNOW it is UNTRUE?

Hey hows it going spring.....hows the campaigning?? This thread is 30 pages long..WOW!! I wouldn't wish politics on my worst enemy!! Good Luck!!

[doggday]

Hell then I'm sure there's no problem with me sending copies of this stuff to the department of Labor. I mean we need to exonerate the chairman IF he's innocent. We can also ask about the legallity of his classification as a plant maintenance welder that he gave himself. If everything is kosher then somebody owes him a apology but if its not THEN I guess he's up shit creek!

[Spring]

Hey hows it going spring.....hows the campaigning?? This thread is 30 pages long..WOW!! I wouldn't wish politics on my worst enemy!! Good Luck!!

 

 

Hey Cap'n! LMAO! How's it going? Hmmm, how do you think it's going? Thanks for the good wishes! Much appreciated. Politics can be interesting and absurd. You have to take everything with a grain of salt and a good sense of humor. Although I wish that some of the hacks would realize that the writers' strike is over and they need to get some new material. lol

[RATONDALINE]

Boy , you really did turn into quite the apologist for Jerry and Company didn't you. The accusations Paul made, if true would have landed Nick in prison. They weren't true, but you don't give a damn about that do you. Who's is trying to bully who here? Nick was threatened with something and reacted accordingly. If there is any attempt to bullying here it seems to be coming from you and yours. Nice to see your true colors thought, that "I'm seeking the truth" crap was getting kind of old. One more thing anyone who thinks that Paul wrote this letter doesn't know Paul or Mary Springowski very well.

Once again, bear with me. Irish pop, how do u think Paul's problems started? If he didnt make those statements against Nick, who did??? If Paul did not do this how did he become the fall guy?? Is this one of those conspiracy things like in a presidential assanation back in the day where someone has to take the blame??? Just questions that need answered so dont get huffy and puffy bout it. As for Paul if he is not guilty, why did he even make a copy from Nick's attorney and pass it out?? I asked him the same question today while he was out gathering votes. I got no answer except for munble jumble. Personally, I would not have put out that letter today if I was not guilty. Now in everyones eyes he is guilty. So who wrote that letter against Nick??? Im sure all of u reading this would like to know!!!!!!!! Time will tell and the truth will become apparent for all to see. Just my 3 cents worth.

[RATONDALINE]

Hey Cap'n! LMAO! How's it going? Hmmm, how do you think it's going? Thanks for the good wishes! Much appreciated. Politics can be interesting and absurd. You have to take everything with a grain of salt and a good sense of humor. Although I wish that some of the hacks would realize that the writers' strike is over and they need to get some new material. lol

Mary, Mary, quite contraty!!!! Sorry, had to say that. How come when u out gathering votes, u continually walk past my job??? I got the koodies or what?? No, Im not gonna tell u where I work and make it easy for you. I know Im isolated from others with my job, my therapist thinks it is best that way. But I do see u when u are out and about on the campaign trail. Keep up the hard work, cuz those who r sometimes elected forget where they come from. Remember I see you but u dont see me. :shades: :shades:

[RATONDALINE]

Hell then I'm sure there's no problem with me sending copies of this stuff to the department of Labor. I mean we need to exonerate the chairman IF he's innocent. We can also ask about the legallity of his classification as a plant maintenance welder that he gave himself. If everything is kosher then somebody owes him a apology but if its not THEN I guess he's up shit creek!

I will pay for the postage Dog!!! Shit, I will deliver it personally. Dont think someone out there paticipating in our forrays has not already started collecting things for the Dept. of Labor. Sounds like good old days at 425 when Ace and Jack Hall went to Dept. of Labor. :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet:

[RATONDALINE]

I think it's pretty funny how you fuckin hypocrits sit on here and say how we need to unite and leave the dirty laundry out of the public eye. Way to go Furious! Good job on not spreading the shit! Oh I forgot it's for informational purposes right? Bullshit! You're a two-faced piece of shit who thinks they know everything about everything! Get a fuckin life man!

Also to you BORNTORYDE,..dont get huffy and puffy also. Our health insurance provides for a limited amount of anger management therapy. Furious is doing something you aint got the balls to speak about. He is only doing what he thinks is right, or what is good in the minds of those behind him. You can knock him all you want, he gets back up, so its no use. As for getting a life, urs must be like the rest of us on here, ........................you reading and posting,.....guess its too cold to ride ur harley and getting a life,...................... :reading:

[Furious1Auto]

Boy , you really did turn into quite the apologist for Jerry and Company didn't you. The accusations Paul made, if true would have landed Nick in prison. They weren't true, but you don't give a damn about that do you. Who's is trying to bully who here? Nick was threatened with something and reacted accordingly. If there is any attempt to bullying here it seems to be coming from you and yours. Nice to see your true colors thought, that "I'm seeking the truth" crap was getting kind of old. One more thing anyone who thinks that Paul wrote this letter doesn't know Paul or Mary Springowski very well.

Dude all I did was point out what I know are lies, and backed it up with evidence. If I'm wrong show me where.

 

I did credit Nick for what he has done right, and I did point out where he appeared wrong. I also showed all of the lies that were about to hit the floor. I knew what the smear letters were going to say before they came. Now how did I get this info? Your people have been spreading it for months. I did the leg work for our members to show what the lies were.

 

I have the same problem with our current government politicians in office now.

 

It all boils down to this:

 

I don't give a f-ck who people vote for, but I can't stand fear mongering to maintain power. If the Republicans did such a great job the last 8 years then they would be able to get reelected based on merit alone, they would not have to threaten people with worse.

 

The same for our local, look at all the smear attacks. Take care of the membership as a whole and they will take care of you, but take care of a select few, and you have to lose your integrity in having to scare the sh-t out of them to keep office. That's not very good representation in my eyes.

 

I mean hell can't we vote for who we think is best anymore, seems like we always have to pick the best of the worst. When the clean-up guys blamed Nick for the low tier wages I stood up for him, we made the decision to except low tier language in the National Contract not Nick. Lies are lies, and they are wrong from all sides.

 

I have never seen so many political hit jobs in an election in my life. It's f-cking childish! I told you guys a long time ago that I would post all I found, if you are embarrassed that everyone in the world can see what you guys do then compose yourselves and run a clean campaign. If you have to lie and make others look bad then you are not worth your salt.

 

I'll say this, you are the only one of Nick's supporters that participate on this sight that I have any respect for even though we disagree allot. The others snipping and reciting a script are an embarrassment to Nick. I would not want some dim witted morons trying to gain me support. If I were running for such an important position, I would be here restraining my constituents tactics. Why the hell does it take some know nothing sh-t like me to correct people over making racist comments. The candidate should be doing that to keep his integrity and his image.

 

Bucktooth, and Crapkillah's constant attacks on people make Nick look like an ass just, because they openly support him. The worst part is that it is not even Nick making the attacks. He's getting burnt by his supporters WTF! Why would I or anyone else want to vote for a person that attracts such idiots?

 

Nick if you are reading this, what happened in the past is in the past and none of us can change that. What motivates me to keep dissenting is the smear letters, these idiots spreading lies, and the fact that they wont even admit things were not always handled properly. You want to talk about :cheerleader: HUH!! I was all calmed down until one of your followers approached me in a threatening manner. That's what prompted the posts Sun. night. I wasn't even going to mention it, just because others were watching and it showed them which side the bully's are on.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not a push over, but I will never do anything to jeopardize my job. I had an episode close to brother Gonzalez's once and it could have sent me to prison, but the man was my target and a piece of pipe was what I beat him with. Ask Brother Dave Sprouse, he knows the situation. I'm just a little more controlled now. If I was assaulted then I stand there and take it then the assailant would lose their job, then when they no longer work for my employer I could handle it outside of work without fear of termination. I'm not a stupid man.

 

I also broke my wrist on my previous employers cousins head. He was a loud mouthed punk that constantly injected "My cousin owns this company" Treat people like sh-t and they'll only take so much. Funny thing is that my boss found out about it when we were sharing a couple of beers, and he said "he doesn't know when to shut his mouth!" The difference between here and there is that I can get jobs that paid that much all day long, but the one I have now is not as easily replaced.

 

But just like you if they came to my house and involved my family, the perpetrator would be a dead man.

 

Born2ride I am two faced. One face concentrates on my job, and the other tells it like I see it. I go to work for one reason and that is to do what I am paid to do nothing more, I do however spend my time on this sight to separate the two. There is no room for this sh-t on the shop floor, we are paid to build vehicles not to create a hostile work environment. I can't wait till these f-cking elections are over.

 

Lastly I'm not here to unite anything, I'm an independent voter not a member of the Solidarity team. Our plant will never fully heal, and our members will never fully assimilate until we have a solid committee that respects the rights of all it's members, and also knows how to handle the business side of things. It really doesn't matter either as long as we put our differences aside while doing what we are paid for. My post addressed the former 425 members that were affected, and that is because they are being fed these lies.

 

If you want to discuss who is dividing who, then address why the Lorain people are being told that Jerry tried to keep us from coming. I already proved it was a lie, but if you like we can rehash it!

Edited April 29, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Irish_Dad]

Hell then I'm sure there's no problem with me sending copies of this stuff to the department of Labor. I mean we need to exonerate the chairman IF he's innocent. We can also ask about the legallity of his classification as a plant maintenance welder that he gave himself. If everything is kosher then somebody owes him a apology but if its not THEN I guess he's up shit creek!

Hell check it out. He had the experience and waited 25 years to get the classification in line with his seniority. Just like he got a seniority bid for truck driver. Doesn't sound as trashjy, but the truth rarely is. He could have tried What Jerry did with Paul and his electricians classification. How mant time did Paul flunk that testr before they gave up that time? what 2 or 3 wasn't it? Maybe that is why Jerry is running again.

[Irish_Dad]

Dude all I did was point out what I know are lies, and backed it up with evidence. If I'm wrong show me where.

 

I did credit Nick for what he has done right, and I did point out where he appeared wrong. I also showed all of the lies that were about to hit the floor. I knew what the smear letters were going to say before they came. Now how did I get this info? Your people have been spreading it for months. I did the leg work for our members to show what the lies were.

 

I have the same problem with our current government politicians in office now.

 

It all boils down to this:

 

I don't give a f-ck who people vote for, but I can't stand fear mongering to maintain power. If the Republicans did such a great job the last 8 years then they would be able to get reelected based on merit alone, they would not have to threaten people with worse.

 

The same for our local, look at all the smear attacks. Take care of the membership as a whole and they will take care of you, but take care of a select few, and you have to lose your integrity in having to scare the sh-t out of them to keep office. That's not very good representation in my eyes.

 

I mean hell can't we vote for who we think is best anymore, seems like we always have to pick the best of the worst. When the clean-up guys blamed Nick for the low tier wages I stood up for him, we made the decision to except low tier language in the National Contract not Nick. Lies are lies, and they are wrong from all sides.

 

I have never seen so many political hit jobs in an election in my life. It's f-cking childish! I told you guys a long time ago that I would post all I found, if you are embarrassed that everyone in the world can see what you guys do then compose yourselves and run a clean campaign. If you have to lie and make others look bad then you are not worth your salt.

 

I'll say this, you are the only one of Nick's supporters that participate on this sight that I have any respect for even though we disagree allot. The others snipping and reciting a script are an embarrassment to Nick. I would not want some dim witted morons trying to gain me support. If I were running for such an important position, I would be here restraining my constituents tactics. Why the hell does it take some know nothing sh-t like me to correct people over making racist comments. The candidate should be doing that to keep his integrity and his image.

 

Bucktooth, and Crapkillah's constant attacks on people make Nick look like an ass just, because they openly support him. The worst part is that it is not even Nick making the attacks. He's getting burnt by his supporters WTF! Why would I or anyone else want to vote for a person that attracts such idiots?

 

Nick if you are reading this, what happened in the past is in the past and none of us can change that. What motivates me to keep dissenting is the smear letters, these idiots spreading lies, and the fact that they wont even admit things were not always handled properly. You want to talk about :cheerleader: HUH!! I was all calmed down until one of your followers approached me in a threatening manner. That's what prompted the posts Sun. night. I wasn't even going to mention it, just because others were watching and it showed them which side the bully's are on.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not a push over, but I will never do anything to jeopardize my job. I had an episode close to brother Gonzalez's once and it could have sent me to prison, but the man was my target and a piece of pipe was what I beat him with. Ask Brother Dave Sprouse, he knows the situation. I'm just a little more controlled now. If I was assaulted then I stand there and take it then the assailant would lose their job, then when they no longer work for my employer I could handle it outside of work without fear of termination. I'm not a stupid man.

 

I also broke my wrist on my previous employers cousins head. He was a loud mouthed punk that constantly injected "My cousin owns this company" Treat people like sh-t and they'll only take so much. Funny thing is that my boss found out about it when we were sharing a couple of beers, and he said "he doesn't know when to shut his mouth!" The difference between here and there is that I can get jobs that paid that much all day long, but the one I have now is not as easily replaced.

 

But just like you if they came to my house and involved my family, the perpetrator would be a dead man.

 

Born2ride I am two faced. One face concentrates on my job, and the other tells it like I see it. I go to work for one reason and that is to do what I am paid to do nothing more, I do however spend my time on this sight to separate the two. There is no room for this sh-t on the shop floor, we are paid to build vehicles not to create a hostile work environment. I can't wait till these f-cking elections are over.

 

Lastly I'm not here to unite anything, I'm an independent voter not a member of the Solidarity team. Our plant will never fully heal, and our members will never fully assimilate until we have a solid committee that respects the rights of all it's members, and also knows how to handle the business side of things. It really doesn't matter either as long as we put our differences aside while doing what we are paid for. My post addressed the former 425 members that were affected, and that is because they are being fed these lies.

 

If you want to discuss who is dividing who, then address why the Lorain people are being told that Jerry tried to keep us from coming. I already proved it was a lie, but if you like we can rehash it!

You talk about smear letters. Those against Nick outnumber those opposed to Jerry 3 to 1. But somehow Nick is running a smear campaign.

[Irish_Dad]

This is the most important post I have to make, and it will take some concentration to understand. It will encompass contract language, and excerpts from certain legal documents, and the I-constitution. But it is relevant to debunking the assertion that Jerry Donavan attempted to stop us from coming to OHAP with our product.

 

 

My brothers/sisters from the former local 425

 

First you have to read this letter distributed at OHAP, before the Mariner left OHAP, and before the last set of elections.

 

 

Now this letter verifies that Jerry knew full well that we where coming. This letter was also distributed before anyone knew that the company was to offer the first round of buyouts and what was going to be offered. Everyone suspected, but no one knew!

 

425 offered no comfort, and told us that the low seniority had no coverage, they were half right.

 

It was not until I met Marvin Jones, and Chris Ladikos working on the floor in our plant that I found out that there was language in the contract that classified it as a "covered event" and that we would all have GEN coverage. They were working as GEN trackers, to track the 2000 members working and training in our plant.

 

Nick was able to negotiate more then the the companies conservative estimates as to how many they would need to staff OHAP after the consolidation was to happen.

 

I was just given Jerry's letter on Friday, and at first I got angry that he would have the nerve to deny me my right to come with my product.

 

I mean everyone knew what the contract said.......

 

 

 

 

Basically we go with our jobs!

 

Then I was directed to another provision of the contract that is within the same section, and would have been applied once we got to OHAP and there was an excess of 700 to 800 employees. Luckily Nick was able to negotiate more then the company wanted on rolls, but it still was not enough. Again luckily the heating system was not working properly in our GEN facility, and they brought us back.

 

Save money on heating in Lorain, and work people in GEN to get extra production without putting them on the rolls to try and keep our budget in the black.

 

This is what is not being presented now as if Jerry was evil and will close the plant LOL. It is also on the same page as the above quoted contract language.

 

 

 

You can read the rest, but it pertains to trades, Blah, blah, blah blah, blah!!!

 

The important thing to note is that by contract we would have come to OHAP as non-skilled labor, and would have worked until they began leveling our seniority. Once the senior operators had filled the jobs the excess would have been put in GEN until contract time and would be facing the same thing the ACH plants are now. Our lovely new JSP (Job Severance Package)

 

What Jerry was saying was completely contractual, and he had no idea what Ford would offer for buyouts. Thank god things went the way they did. Nick negotiated more jobs, people retired, then buyouts allowed people t peruse other opportunities.

 

These things saved allot of heartache.

 

Back to the story, Jerry told his unit what he knew to be true at the time, based on the contract. Then they had 700 to 800 people with nowhere to go, we had a right to come and the low seniority would be out of work. He and the members that he represented collectively pitched in to fund a court injunction or TRO (temporary Restraining Order) to preserve the affected member's pay scales, and an appeal to The Public review board. The purpose of the appeal was to as I quote from it......

 

 

[/b]

Now that should piss you off.

 

Local 2000 Unit 1, Unit 2, and 425 all should have voted for the standing committee. In most cases if you are not happy with the way things are going people will tell you, "well you voted them in". We were denied even that.

 

 

He even challenged the I-UAW over it, now what does that tell you about the man. I can't believe I was buying into that friggin rumor that he tried to stop us from coming. Read his letter again, it says we are coming. It also cites what the contract says was to have happened if not for the buyouts.

 

My last order of business is the rumor that Jerry Donavan intends to open the contract if he takes office.

 

I'll tell you what Nick is going to reopen the contract. Ask to see a copy of our new local agreement. Flip to page 77 and look for the reopener clause at the top of the page.

 

There are two paragraphs pertaining to contract opening upon discussions of the a new product being introduced. The second paragraph was added in the last round of negotiations. I can't quote it verbatim because I lent it out, but essentially this is what it says.

 

 

 

There is more to it, but like I said I don't have it here. Once I get it back I will post it word for word. Thinking we're safe with what we have negotiated and that we should ride it out is nice. But we are going to continue this negotiation for more favorable terms for the company. Would have been nice to know when the buyout offer was still on the table!

 

All I have to say is that, You need to look at the ending of the practice of posting lateral moves after we were here a few months, and the lack of transparency in the bid process. Then remember jobs cannot be posted till they are signed by the chairman. Also knowing his opponent filed an appeal to fight the rights of his membership, and decide who is really looking out for your interests.

 

I had three current Reps tell me that Nick was the one who told them that lateral moves cannot be posted after doing it for months, because it was illegal and the Labor board advised them not too. (Two BC's and a committeeman) Remember I called the Labor board to verify it, and you can too. National Labor Relations Board 216-522-3715 Ask them for yourself they never instructed Local 2000 to stop posting lateral moves. It was clearly to put people close to the committee in to preferential positions IMO! If you don't know when a good job is open your seniority means nothing! And when you do and you dissent, "We refuse to overload classifications"!

 

You guys that sat with me in the meetings are our future. You will be our committee people in the future. Who is looking out for us now?

 

Now go ahead attack me, this is what I know to be true based on what I have in front of me and my Brothers/Sisters have the right to know the truth!

 

Anyone who really cares can feel free to copy and print these posts for distribution in the plant, I've said my piece!

 

Oh Yeah,

 

Fraternally yours,

 

Jayson Casselman (Furious1Auto)

I would like to address some of what you call the lies being perpetrated in this campaign season. First off the pertinent article for the transfer is article 8 sec24 para b, not article 9. Your copy of the contract page is from the proper article wrong paragraph. The paragraph you quote deals only with the Rouge Facility and has no bearing on what happened here. Next Everyone knew the Lorain people were coming. The question is how were they to be treated when they got here. Nicks opinion was that they came with their jobs. Jerry's opinion was that since it was illegal to eliminate Unit 2 and the MOA, the Lorain people would got into a GEN pool unique to their plant. This would allow those individuals in the OHAP GEN pool to fill the incoming jobs first, leaving the remaining jobs for the most senior people transferring in from the Lorain GEN. You don't believe it, ask him if he did not use the New Jersey plant closing as an example of how the consolidation here should be managed.

 

You say that unit 1 unit 2 and the people of Lorain should have voted for the committee people. Jerry disagreed in his appeal, and that is the only part of his appeal that he won. The PRB found that the international had no right to deny the people a vote even though the unit had less than three months life left at the time of the vote. However the people from unit 2 were allowed to vote and the following committeemen came for that former unit 2; Fred Pena, Chris Ladikos, Roy Escandoin, Flash Brummitt, Marvin Jones,Michelle Schnur, David Candelario, Bill Samples and Mike Pisconi. The first four and possible Mike P all served as committee people under Jerry and subsequently Kenny Kruse.

 

The language for Lateral Moves was negotiated by Nick and his bargaining structure in the last contract. However the dumb shits posting what they call "lateral moves" are using language from the national contract that pertains to Non Promotional Transfers. The national language is addressing changes in classification to the same or lower paid classification. Not moves to the same classification. According to Paul Tripplet you can thank him and Flash for that SNAFU. The language from our local supersedes the national language (read the language) and ours says the lateral moves are made upon agreement by the area union rep and the area supervision. Why are the lists a bad idea? Because there is no central control over the lists or subsequent moves. There are multiple copies of these list in certain areas and no copies in other areas. In at least two cases that I know of a list has mysteriously appeared after a person was already told they had gotten the job. This is what happens when the committeemen don't follow the contract, this is what Jerry tells you flat out that he will do when he says that he will make all of the rulings, so that there is consistency. Now when you called the NLRB did you tell them the whole story or only what you were told by the Solidarity Soldiers Committeemen candidates? Speaking of good jobs.

 

Do you know why the committee people never complain about Nick not signing the postings ? Because he signs them when he gets them. Why would Nick want to keep a job open? The committeemen are the ones that ensure that the "right" person gets on the job. Look at the people in these unbid jobs. The are the friends of your committeemen, not Nick. The committeemen come down to ensure that Joe Blow is always put on the Mix relief, or that Susie Saddle is still doing the inspection job, or the drive off job. Not one time has anyone ever accused Nick of placing a person on a preferential job. Yet your committeemen spend most of their time making sure that the "right"people are on the premium jobs. This is by far the slickest lie these guys have ever told and it's working.

 

One more thing. You hold Nick accountable for the actions of the committeemen and excuse Jerry's handling of Larry Adams as an appointed Rep. The Elected people,are protected from a chairman who may have a political agenda against them by the constitution and the by-laws. The writer of these documents recognized that there would be cases where disagreements would cause conflict so they made sure that only the membership could remove them. Appointed reps serve at the pleasure of the VP. Ask anyone who was around when Kenny won his election how easy it is to have an appointed rep removed. The entire appointed structure was removed, because Kenny felt they were incompatible. He did this without holding a single meeting with some of them. Some of the appointed reps later got their jobs back, but everyone was initially removed. Some of those former reps were Bob Honaker, and Larry Adams,and Mary Springowski.

[Hondo_Lane]

I think it's pretty funny how you fuckin hypocrits sit on here and say how we need to unite and leave the dirty laundry out of the public eye. Way to go Furious! Good job on not spreading the shit! Oh I forgot it's for informational purposes right? Bullshit! You're a two-faced piece of shit who thinks they know everything about everything! Get a fuckin life man!

 

 

Dude Just S2 (Sit the Fuck down and Shut the Fuck up!) Let the man talk!

[The Shadow]

Whooohooo! This is getting intersting! Man I can't wait for the fake letters to come out they should be a hoot. You know the fake letters that the writers never really wrote. Hey if you can't tell the truth might as well make it up and make it good. The folks that haven't been thru a election here before are in for a treat. We got forgers so good that they could have a carreer minting moolah! I gotta a question tho. Some folks is getting pretty desprate and and its getting fun to see what they come up with next. So my question is what are they worried about losing or what do the got to hide?