Spoiler Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 That is very True, But wouldn't you rather see the plant stay open for our children who are entering the work force, or even for the economy of Tulsa and Nashville. I would rather see people working somewhere than to see our children and neighbors on the unemployment line with a shitty economy. From what I have seen from the actual contract posted on this site it is definitely a union buster! Shame on the UAW for negotiating wages for $11 an hour for new hires! President Gettelfinger himself said there would be no contracts negotiated for less than $14 per hour! $11 is not a living wage! That contract is pathetic! Shut the plant down under Ford or wait a year or two and shut down under the new owner! More protections under Ford! Isn't Oklahoma and Tennessee a Right to Work State? $11 is a real incentive to join a Union! Pathetic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I will not vote yes on a contract that says its ok to pay $11.50 an hour to work in this plant. I would not work for that amount and I refuse to say it is ok for someone else to work for that amount. I plan to retire and reload, but not with this contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 From what I have seen from the actual contract posted on this site it is definitely a union buster! Shame on the UAW for negotiating wages for $11 an hour for new hires! President Gettelfinger himself said there would be no contracts negotiated for less than $14 per hour! $11 is not a living wage! That contract is pathetic! Shut the plant down under Ford or wait a year or two and shut down under the new owner! More protections under Ford! Isn't Oklahoma and Tennessee a Right to Work State? $11 is a real incentive to join a Union! Pathetic! what contract are you reading...I didn't see any $11 jobs??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) Starting pay for new "Production Support" Classification is $11.00 per hour. "Production Associate" is $11.50 per hour. Also at Carlite "Warehouse Support" $11.00 and "Warehouse Associate" is $11.50. See page 20 of Full agreement or page 2 of the Lowlights Edited January 15, 2008 by Bodhibkb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Starting pay for new "Production Support" Classification is $11.00 per hour. "Production Associate" is $11.50 per hour. Also at Carlite "Warehouse Support" $11.00 and "Warehouse Associate" is $11.50. See page 20 of Full agreement or page 2 of the Lowlights didn't scroll down far enough....this is for new hires. They must come in at what 80%. That isn't that bad...the grow in is a little long to get to full wage, but to start off at 80% would be nice. Wish I could have when I started at Ford. Back in 1992 I was making 70% for 1 1/2 year grow in $11.00 per hr. I remember after the 93 agreement they had to wait 3yrs to grow in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoiler Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 didn't scroll down far enough....this is for new hires. They must come in at what 80%. That isn't that bad...the grow in is a little long to get to full wage, but to start off at 80% would be nice. Wish I could have when I started at Ford. Back in 1992 I was making 70% for 1 1/2 year grow in $11.00 per hr. I remember after the 93 agreement they had to wait 3yrs to grow in. This isn't the 90's or the 70's! Would you work for that......in a glass plant! Forget the wages......did you see the so-called agreement? I skimmed through it again. What happened to health and safety and the 40 hour week? I guess it is a good thing that those that came before us didn't sell us out like this contract is selling out the people in Tulsa and Tennessee! What the hell has happened to the UAW when we can justify these kind of wages and contract language! We ought to be ashamed of ourselves, especially those who negotiated this! I can't believe the Ford Department would allow this kind of contract to be voted on! Sell the plant or not, what about the workers dignity? Save jobs you say.......... bullshit! If this is the kind of bullshit the UAW embraces then the Right to Work Committee that is coming here (Michigan) again will have a hay day with this bullshit!!!! It's not my plants or place to say but I would say hell NO to this Bullshit! I commend Tulsa and Nashville for taking a stand against it! If Ford really wants to sell and this buyer wants to buy then get a decent contract not some rollover bullshit contract! As the saying goes ......."IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING YOU"LL FALL FOR ANYTHING!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordemployee4life Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I agree. I hired in in 1998 for $14.00 per hour and it took 3 years to get to full pay. For Pete's sake, they aren't even paying new hires what we were started out at a decade ago!! This is crazy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I could see my way to accept $14.00 for new hires and work up to $18.00. Relucantly. (where is the punking smiley?) Would prefer to see more like $16.00 to start and work up to $20.00. With better benefits. And all the other stuff Spoiler mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 This isn't the 90's or the 70's! Would you work for that......in a glass plant! Forget the wages......did you see the so-called agreement? I skimmed through it again. What happened to health and safety and the 40 hour week? I guess it is a good thing that those that came before us didn't sell us out like this contract is selling out the people in Tulsa and Tennessee! What the hell has happened to the UAW when we can justify these kind of wages and contract language! We ought to be ashamed of ourselves, especially those who negotiated this! I can't believe the Ford Department would allow this kind of contract to be voted on! Sell the plant or not, what about the workers dignity? Save jobs you say.......... bullshit! If this is the kind of bullshit the UAW embraces then the Right to Work Committee that is coming here (Michigan) again will have a hay day with this bullshit!!!! It's not my plants or place to say but I would say hell NO to this Bullshit! I commend Tulsa and Nashville for taking a stand against it! If Ford really wants to sell and this buyer wants to buy then get a decent contract not some rollover bullshit contract! As the saying goes ......."IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING YOU"LL FALL FOR ANYTHING!" very true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytogo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I could see my way to accept $14.00 for new hires and work up to $18.00. Relucantly. (where is the punking smiley?) Would prefer to see more like $16.00 to start and work up to $20.00. With better benefits. And all the other stuff Spoiler mentioned. I fully agree. With that said, If they had offered $18, I would have wanted $20. If they offered $20, I would have wanted $22. That means there is still fight in us to want better for our future. If we vote this down we will not have the opportunity to fight again in Nashville or Tulsa. We will have to fight from KC or someplace else, because Nashville and Tulsa will be closed. I feel the only hope for the future for us and our kids at Nashville and Tulsa, it to "VOTE YES". Once the deal is done, I/we need to start "DEMANDING" better repersentation and accountability from our Local AND International. I/we have been too complacient in not holding our leadership accountable. It all starts with attending Local Union Meetings. We are a customer service driven society. If we are not getting what we are paying for we need to ask why. It all starts at local Union meetings. (which very few attend, until there is a crisis) There will be a lot of issues in this new contract, that will not be solved right a way. I/we need to participate in the process, if we don't participate in the process, we have no right to complain. If I/we are serious about our future, we need to: 1st: VOTE YES (to secure another fight) 2nd: COMMUNICATE (Union meetings, Local, International, That would have stoped alot of these rumors) 3rd: ACCOUNTABILITY (hold our leadership accountable, or vote them out) 4th: PARTICIPATE (voice your opinion, not on the floor, but at Union Meetings) Once the Local Membership is strong again, then we start working on the next contract. It will not be quick, and it will not be easy, but is wasn't quick and easy in the 70's and 80's either. We speak about the UAW members from the past...."They would not have done this or that". Our vote will determine if there will be anyone in Nashville or Tulsa to talk about how things "Once Were". IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE.....VOTE RESPONSIBLY, VOTE YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I fully agree. With that said, If they had offered $18, I would have wanted $20. If they offered $20, I would have wanted $22. That means there is still fight in us to want better for our future. If we vote this down we will not have the opportunity to fight again in Nashville or Tulsa. We will have to fight from KC or someplace else, because Nashville and Tulsa will be closed. I feel the only hope for the future for us and our kids at Nashville and Tulsa, it to "VOTE YES". Once the deal is done, I/we need to start "DEMANDING" better repersentation and accountability from our Local AND International. I/we have been too complacient in not holding our leadership accountable. It all starts with attending Local Union Meetings. We are a customer service driven society. If we are not getting what we are paying for we need to ask why. It all starts at local Union meetings. (which very few attend, until there is a crisis) There will be a lot of issues in this new contract, that will not be solved right a way. I/we need to participate in the process, if we don't participate in the process, we have no right to complain. If I/we are serious about our future, we need to: 1st: VOTE YES (to secure another fight) 2nd: COMMUNICATE (Union meetings, Local, International, That would have stoped alot of these rumors) 3rd: ACCOUNTABILITY (hold our leadership accountable, or vote them out) 4th: PARTICIPATE (voice your opinion, not on the floor, but at Union Meetings) Once the Local Membership is strong again, then we start working on the next contract. It will not be quick, and it will not be easy, but is wasn't quick and easy in the 70's and 80's either. We speak about the UAW members from the past...."They would not have done this or that". Our vote will determine if there will be anyone in Nashville or Tulsa to talk about how things "Once Were". IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE.....VOTE RESPONSIBLY, VOTE YES EXCELLENT POST! YOUR RIGHT ON TRACK! TO THE REST OF YOU,I WOULDN'T BET THE FARM ON THIS ONE! BELIEVE ME I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT ON THAT! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) If I/we are serious about our future, we need to:1st: VOTE YES (to secure another fight) 2nd: COMMUNICATE (Union meetings, Local, International, That would have stoped alot of these rumors) 3rd: ACCOUNTABILITY (hold our leadership accountable, or vote them out) 4th: PARTICIPATE (voice your opinion, not on the floor, but at Union Meetings) If I/we are serious about our future, we need to: 1st: VOTE NO (to secure another fight) 2nd: COMMUNICATE (Union meetings, Local, International, That would have stopped alot of these rumors) 3rd: ACCOUNTABILITY (hold our leadership accountable, or vote them out) 4th: PARTICIPATE (voice your opinion, not on the floor, but at Union Meetings) IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE.....VOTE RESPONSIBLY, VOTE Hell NO! Edited January 15, 2008 by Bodhibkb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennesseepowerstroke Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I fully agree. With that said, If they had offered $18, I would have wanted $20. If they offered $20, I would have wanted $22. That means there is still fight in us to want better for our future. If we vote this down we will not have the opportunity to fight again in Nashville or Tulsa. We will have to fight from KC or someplace else, because Nashville and Tulsa will be closed. I feel the only hope for the future for us and our kids at Nashville and Tulsa, it to "VOTE YES". Once the deal is done, I/we need to start "DEMANDING" better repersentation and accountability from our Local AND International. I/we have been too complacient in not holding our leadership accountable. It all starts with attending Local Union Meetings. We are a customer service driven society. If we are not getting what we are paying for we need to ask why. It all starts at local Union meetings. (which very few attend, until there is a crisis) There will be a lot of issues in this new contract, that will not be solved right a way. I/we need to participate in the process, if we don't participate in the process, we have no right to complain. If I/we are serious about our future, we need to: 1st: VOTE YES (to secure another fight) 2nd: COMMUNICATE (Union meetings, Local, International, That would have stoped alot of these rumors) 3rd: ACCOUNTABILITY (hold our leadership accountable, or vote them out) 4th: PARTICIPATE (voice your opinion, not on the floor, but at Union Meetings) Once the Local Membership is strong again, then we start working on the next contract. It will not be quick, and it will not be easy, but is wasn't quick and easy in the 70's and 80's either. We speak about the UAW members from the past...."They would not have done this or that". Our vote will determine if there will be anyone in Nashville or Tulsa to talk about how things "Once Were". IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE.....VOTE RESPONSIBLY, VOTE YES If you are serious about your future you better vote no, go to an assembly plant or both. I will guarantee you that when the next contract comes around for Zelodyne they will try to cut your $14.00 hour wage back and make you pay more on your insurance. Once you get past the wage and insurance cuts look at the work rules. For instance going from 200 hr vacation and excused abscences to 40 hours vacation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 If you are serious about your future you better vote no, go to an assembly plant or both.I will guarantee you that when the next contract comes around for Zelodyne they will try to cut your $14.00 hour wage back and make you pay more on your insurance. Once you get past the wage and insurance cuts look at the work rules. For instance going from 200 hr vacation and excused abscences to 40 hours vacation, etc. Does your 40 hrs VAC start on 2-1-09 ?? Your one yr anniversary ?? If so, no one gets any paid time off for the 1st yr ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebbtide03 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Are you serious if you vote No all you do is limit the choices anyone has. This so called fight is over the bell has rung it won't get better. Why take away everything by not looking deep enough to see the light. If you let them close NGP then the choices are gone along with any jobs that could remain. Are you willing to gamble with big business I'm not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebbtide03 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Does your 40 hrs VAC start on 2-1-09 ?? Your one yr anniversary ?? If so, no one gets any paid time off for the 1st yr ?? No Ford employee rollovers start with 40 hrs on 2-1-08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 No Ford employee rollovers start with 40 hrs on 2-1-08 And no personal days ?? Right ?? Do you know yet how many reloads Price needs to rehire or will he be forced to take all who sign up for it ?? If you dont reload, what is the timetable (trades/production) to be dumped out of the new company and into JSP or a Ford offer ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennesseepowerstroke Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Does your 40 hrs VAC start on 2-1-09 ?? Your one yr anniversary ?? If so, no one gets any paid time off for the 1st yr ?? 40 hours vacation starts is available as of 2-1-08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennesseepowerstroke Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Are you serious if you vote No all you do is limit the choices anyone has. This so called fight is over the bell has rung it won't get better. Why take away everything by not looking deep enough to see the light. If you let them close NGP then the choices are gone along with any jobs that could remain. Are you willing to gamble with big business I'm not Don't be a chicken. The UAW's wages and benefits packages were fought for. No one layed down and received these perks in the past and will not in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennesseepowerstroke Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 And no personal days ?? Right ?? Do you know yet how many reloads Price needs to rehire or will he be forced to take all who sign up for it ?? If you dont reload, what is the timetable (trades/production) to be dumped out of the new company and into JSP or a Ford offer ?? No personal or sick days is correct. He will not be forced to take all that sign up. Only the numbers needed according to the Zelodyne contract. Who knows how many this will be. Looks like 30 days to make up your mind after the contract is accepted and then up to 90 more days depending on both companies needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Looks like 30 days to make up your mind after the contract is accepted and then up to 90 more days depending on both companies needs. Soooooo......if all Ford employees sign for reload , they can vote No and then back out of the reload within 30 days ??? If true, this may not pass.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Soooooo......if all Ford employees sign for reload , they can vote No and then back out of the reload within 30 days ??? If true, this may not pass.......... yES THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE WANTING EVERYONE TO DO. SOMEHOW IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT.SHOULD I HELP SEAL THE FATE OF 200 TEMPS THAT WANT AND NEED PERMANENT JOBS. NOT TO MENTION COUNTLESS OTHERS THAT ARE OK WITH IT.(MOST OF THEM HAVE THE PENSION EARNED). IF I WAS ASKED TO DO THAT I'M NOT SURE I COULD. IT MIGHT BACKFIRE TOO! WE SHALL SEE. ROLLING STONES "YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED" :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Looks like 30 days to make up your mind after the contract is accepted and then up to 90 more days depending on both companies needs. Wow, if they attack one new buyer at a time, it could be eons before they get to SRP after Monroe,Saline and Milan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 yES THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE WANTING EVERYONE TO DO. SOMEHOW IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT.SHOULD I HELP SEAL THE FATE OF 200 TEMPS THAT WANT AND NEED PERMANENT JOBS. NOT TO MENTION COUNTLESS OTHERS THAT ARE OK WITH IT.(MOST OF THEM HAVE THE PENSION EARNED). IF I WAS ASKED TO DO THAT I'M NOT SURE I COULD. IT MIGHT BACKFIRE TOO! WE SHALL SEE. ROLLING STONES "YOU DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU NEED" :shades: Thanks, sounds crazy. No offense to the 200 temps but to those who espouse saving these $11-15/hr jobs for your childrens future, IMO, you're setting their goals VERY VERY low. Its one thing to think anyone can follow in your footsteps for a good middle class job, but $22-30k/yr aint it. Go to school,... an asst. manager at McD's can make this with much better bennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Wow, if they attack one new buyer at a time, it could be eons before they get to SRP after Monroe,Saline and Milan. I wouldn't worry about that! I personally don't think they are going to play F&*K AROUND very long at all! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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