Bored of Pisteon Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Hey Richard... Can you check your Cougar and see if there is any relation to ol' Chauncey from the 1970's Mercury Cougar commercials! Any bloodlines... THANKS. Edited January 18, 2008 by Bored of Pisteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Thank God they never made a version of the Cougar on the Panther platform. Hold it... The modern "Panther" platform didn't come out till 1979 correct? (Basic underpinnings, dimensions, etc.) I want you guys to compare everything from the final year of the Thunderbird/Cougar/LTD II platforms to the current dimensions of this platform and you can see some resemblences in terms of closeness to wheelbase dimensions, lengths of doors, fenders, etc... Check for yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I've decided that I think I going to have prepared counterpoints saved in a Word file just so I don't have to keep typing this stuff. Either that or just leave it alone. Most people who critique the Panthers haven't even ridden in one and if they have its probably a worn-out taxi or their grandmother's softly-sprung sedan. That's why its really pointless to argue. No different than judging a Taurus on how anemic the Five-Hundred was. Even fewer have driven a late-model Panther to even know what they're talking about. This really isn't about Ford loyalty, but model loyalty. There's another point, those that are the most vocally opposing the Panthers likely don't even drive a full-size sedan to begin with. You can't talk up the Taurus to a Panther owner and not back it up with ownership. Panther owners are loyal to the Ford that produces Mustangs, F-150s, and Panthers. There's the appreciation for rear wheel drive and eight-cylinder engines. Its about liking what works. Besides the old Taurus (not the 500 rename) what sedan has Ford produced long-term with success? Easy answer. Now why is that? If you want to talk about the Panther, at least have some seat time to critique it. If you haven't driven a P71 or HPP, you're riding in a base car with whatever options have been added. I'll bet you that very few Taurus owners would have the courage to push their cars in a turn like the Crown Vic builds confidence. They'd probably be riding the guard rail. The more performance-oriented Crown Vics and Grand Marquises are structurally tight, roomy, comfort, has good build quality, good power and handling and decent fuel economy. The D3, as good as it is, will probably have lived about 8 years max before its put out to pasture. The Panther will have lived for about 33 years before it ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Wow. Very mature... You don't like arguments that are Euro Focus vs US Focus and Panthers...and yet YOU go and create ANOTHER thread FOR EACH. Both hocus pocus both have something in common, sales fell both sides of the pond in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERKURXR4Ti Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 There's a guy who drives around here with a supercharged CV with massive rear tires, it's pretty damn cool actually. I was always somewhat interested in a panther because of the ease of performance enhancements (or at least I assumed so because most old mustang upgrades should work). With that said they are far and away too big of cars for me and I have never driven anything but a base model..so I suppose my input is limited here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Most people who critique the Panthers haven't even ridden in one and if they have its probably a worn-out taxi or their grandmother's softly-sprung sedan. Actually, the last one I drove was a 2004 Town Car. It sucked. Beyond all the other 'issues' inherent to the Panthers, it didn't have a tachometer. Fucking pathetic in a $30,000 plus 'luxury' vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Actually, the last one I drove was a 2004 Town Car. It sucked. Beyond all the other 'issues' inherent to the Panthers, it didn't have a tachometer. Fucking pathetic in a $30,000 plus 'luxury' vehicle. don't forget wallowy handling, substandard braking, anemic acceleration, ZERO steering feedback, slippery non supportive seats, antiquated styling inside and out...oh, but wait ...these are acceptable to the same Panther loyalists that berate Fords OTHER products for THEIR lacking horsepower, skidpad #'s, styling, dashboards etc.....fence jumping hypocrisy ! And then they wonder why WE jump all over them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Actually, the last one I drove was a 2004 Town Car. It sucked. Beyond all the other 'issues' inherent to the Panthers, it didn't have a tachometer. Fucking pathetic in a $30,000 plus 'luxury' vehicle. There are a lot of things that I would hold against the Town Car and Panther platform, but not having a tachometer isn't one of them. Realistically, automatics don't really need a tachometer. Heck, there were manual transmission vehicles 10 years ago that didn't have a tach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 So it's not really about an aversion to uni-body. You feel that it makes economic sense to retain the panther instead of standardizing all RWD onto a single platform. I understand where you're coming from but what if it could be proven that the economics are better by standardizing on a single platform vs. having two? (I'm not saying I can prove it. I'm only asking if opinion would change if it could be proven). Well, as markets become more and more segregated, I think having two platform would make sense. Just look at Ford's SUV line up. YOu have the Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expy. There is TONS of overlap on the first three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Actually, the last one I drove was a 2004 Town Car. It sucked. Beyond all the other 'issues' inherent to the Panthers, it didn't have a tachometer. Fucking pathetic in a $30,000 plus 'luxury' vehicle. One issue I do have is that the various options, editions, and color schemes are not as abundant as they were back in the day. If you wan't a tachometer... Install one yourself! By the way. That used to be a Ford option also in some cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Actually, the last one I drove was a 2004 Town Car. It sucked. Beyond all the other 'issues' inherent to the Panthers, it didn't have a tachometer. Fucking pathetic in a $30,000 plus 'luxury' vehicle. You really need a tach in an automatic equipped car. Maybe you shouldn't be driving. Of course, I am the one who retrofitted a Marauder cluster into my CV...after tons of people said it couldn't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Well, as markets become more and more segregated, I think having two platform would make sense. Just look at Ford's SUV line up. YOu have the Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expy. There is TONS of overlap on the first three. Ford doesn't need 4 seperate SUV's right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Ford doesn't need 4 seperate SUV's right now. They think they do...I don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Vic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 don't forget wallowy handling, substandard braking, anemic acceleration, ZERO steering feedback, slippery non supportive seats, antiquated styling inside and out...oh, but wait ...these are acceptable to the same Panther loyalists that berate Fords OTHER products for THEIR lacking horsepower, skidpad #'s, styling, dashboards etc.....fence jumping hypocrisy ! And then they wonder why WE jump all over them? P71s have really stiff springs. They don't wallow. Braking is fine for a 4000-pound car. They have dual-piston calipers up front. Steering feedback is fine on mine (constant-ratio power steering on P71s as opposed to variable) and they switched to rack and pinion for 2003.5. My bucket seat, while flat, is very supportive, but it won't hold me in place in tight turns. Acceleration for a two-ton car is reasonable if not quick. The supercharger knocked 1.5 seconds off my quarter mile time. Have you driven a '98 or newer Police Interceptor or any other Panther with the Handling and Performance Package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) P71s have really stiff springs. They don't wallow. Braking is fine for a 4000-pound car. They have dual-piston calipers up front. Steering feedback is fine on mine (constant-ratio power steering on P71s as opposed to variable) and they switched to rack and pinion for 2003.5. My bucket seat, while flat, is very supportive, but it won't hold me in place in tight turns. Acceleration for a two-ton car is reasonable if not quick. The supercharger knocked 1.5 seconds off my quarter mile time. Have you driven a '98 or newer Police Interceptor or any other Panther with the Handling and Performance Package? sold a bunch so to answer your question yes....and I totally stand by my assessment.....the PI's are better, P73's sucked as their ride drive was catered to the elderly....but even the PI's handled like crap, and if turning left one slides into the passengers seat..... Edited January 18, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Braking is fine for a 4000-pound car. They have dual-piston calipers up front. and Performance Package? I believe the 2001 CVPIs slowed from 60MPH in about the same distance as the B4C F-Body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Vic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 sold a bunch so to answer your question yes....and I totally stand by my assessment.....the PI's are better, P73's sucked as their ride drive was catered to the elderly....but even the PI's handled like crap, and if turning left one slides into the passengers seat..... If they handled like crap, the tires wouldn't stick well enough for you to be moved by the angular acceleration. And it doesn't slide me out of the seat; it's just not a racing bucket. It's actually a better seat than the one in my '95 Mustang, but that's because the Mustang is a GTS with the base V6 seat. And my seatbelt holds me in place nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 If they handled like crap, the tires wouldn't stick well enough for you to be moved by the angular acceleration. And it doesn't slide me out of the seat; it's just not a racing bucket. It's actually a better seat than the one in my '95 Mustang, but that's because the Mustang is a GTS with the base V6 seat. And my seatbelt holds me in place nicely. doesn't take much g force on a vinal seat........any vehicle in fords lineup right now ( excluding trucks ) will leave a CV for dead on a windy road, if ANY car in the lineup drove as badly as the CV you guys would be all over it, as it is some have the audacity to poo poo recent efforts that out perform the Cv with more compact more efficient design ....The CV WAS ( past tense ) a good dependable large car for transportation, but is antiquated and obviously does NOT return enough for Ford to continue its manufacture.....if it WAS as profitable as some seem to think it is , it would STILL be being made and NOT in its death throws....its current existance caters to no more than political brownie points, pseudo bad ass Security guards raising red and white barriers at gated communitys, Possum hunters with a passion for spotlights, Laundry wearing 30 cent a mile 1-800 call my taxi drivers, and bargain hunters looking for a cheap 250k plus daily driver not wrapped up in trying to impress the Jones's....it is now Fords current model T...any color as long as its Black and white.....or yellow,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Or emerald green. See a lot of green taxis in SoCal. any vehicle in fords lineup right now ( excluding trucks ) will leave a CV for dead on a windy road Tell ya what - you bring the best Panther you can find, I'll bring my Ranger, and we'll go hit Angeles Crest Highway and settle it once and for all :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 When the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car production ends you can see the RWD fans jumping ship to Chrysler 300, Dodge Magnum and Charger, and Cadillac CTS/STS/DTS. Why did Ford neglect the Panther for so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 When the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car production ends you can see the RWD fans jumping ship to Chrysler 300, Dodge Magnum and Charger, and Cadillac CTS/STS/DTS. Why did Ford neglect the Panther for so long? one can only guess, i would say that the chassis couldn't be modernized easily enough any more, and it may have been decided a brand NEW chassis was more viable, it WASN"T selling in profitable retail numbers, and the $ made from fleet wasn't enough to continue flogging the dead horse and spending devellopement money, this is speculation of course, but like I will BLEAT again...if it was a cash cow it wouldn't be going ANYWHERE;....and we have a RWd platform coming.....YAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 one can only guess, i would say that the chassis couldn't be modernized easily enough any more, and it may have been decided a brand NEW chassis was more viable, it WASN"T selling in profitable retail numbers, and the $ made from fleet wasn't enough to continue flogging the dead horse and spending devellopement money, this is speculation of course, but like I will BLEAT again...if it was a cash cow it wouldn't be going ANYWHERE;....and we have a RWd platform coming.....YAY! Will the new RWD platform be based on the Panther? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Will the new RWD platform be based on the Panther? not that i know of...that was my reason for the theory of the Panther platform ahd reached the "couldn't be developed " viably anymore and that a complete NEW platform was fiscally advantageous....course i could be wrong, but that makes sense to me. From what I have read the RWD platforms may be a Aussie based derivative.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 not that i know of...that was my reason for the theory of the Panther platform ahd reached the "couldn't be developed " viably anymore and that a complete NEW platform was fiscally advantageous....course i could be wrong, but that makes sense to me. From what I have read the RWD platforms may be a Aussie based derivative.... Well thats good news l hope they use it in Europe because l have never been a great fan of FWD, well apart from the Mini. It would be nice to be offered a RWD car again from FOE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Vic Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 doesn't take much g force on a vinal seat........any vehicle in fords lineup right now ( excluding trucks ) will leave a CV for dead on a windy road My seat is cloth. Numbers or STFU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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