12pointer Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Heard on the floor yesterday that they have only about 70 people signed up for the buy outs and that included the trades. They want to get 153 people, 130 production and 23 trades. Wonder if people are waiting to turn papers in or if they will not get the number they want. What is making these older people stay?????? The younger people should be jumping all over the education package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Heard on the floor yesterday that they have only about 70 people signed up for the buy outs and that included the trades. They want to get 153 people, 130 production and 23 trades. Wonder if people are waiting to turn papers in or if they will not get the number they want. What is making these older people stay?????? The younger people should be jumping all over the education package. Why the heck should the older folks leave? To make 36k a year and do what? I can see the youngsters wanting to bail and take the ED package, but what the hell is an autoworker in his late 40's/early 50's supposed to do? Stick it out to the bitter end is what they should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12pointer Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 not talking about the workers in 40's to early 50's talking about the workers with 35 or more years many have 38 + years and are not going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 not talking about the workers in 40's to early 50's talking about the workers with 35 or more years many have 38 + years and are not going. So they could be in their late 50s/early 60s, They still may not want to drop down to making 36k a year or there abouts. I say the young people should move into new careers, they've got plenty of time too work their way up the lader in a new career field. Since auto assembly seems to be a dying career in north america doesn't it make more sense to leave the more senior folks alone and tell the youngsters it would be smarter if they found a new career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkon Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) Taking the money, and running as fast as I can trying to not let the door hit me in the ass as I go through B) Edited March 1, 2006 by darkkon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 They will, sooner or later, whether they want to or not. There is no future at an ACH plant unless you want to make $15.00 an hour. What is crazy is they keep refusing to take the free money. It's tough to drop down to 36k if you're making more, unless you're forced too. Free money is great but less money is tough to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshep Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Taking the money, and running as fast as I can trying to not let the door hit me in the ass as I go through B) I'm with you Darkkon......I'm just waiting for an offer and I will do the EXACT same thing...........What plant are you at and how did the buyout happen.....Details, please............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Believe you me, and mark my words. When next contract hits if you are in an ACH plant, your screwed. That's just about a year and a half. Now, tell me, who in that time can put the cash that Ford is throwing at them in the bank? What are you hearing... Im hearing the opposite. 2011 is when the asshole puckers up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 The maintenance is easy, They are wanting all plants to look as profitable as possible. That way they can show the "buyers" "Look how well we have been doing" and when they take it over they get slammed with all the maintenance costs. As for future work. Your local is as good as your elected officals. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynedawg Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Heard on the floor yesterday that they have only about 70 people signed up for the buy outs and that included the trades. They want to get 153 people, 130 production and 23 trades. Wonder if people are waiting to turn papers in or if they will not get the number they want. What is making these older people stay?????? The younger people should be jumping all over the education package. Last time I checked only a small amount of producion workers had years worked and age points(90) to retire with the first buyout,some stayed on to get the extra years credit ,vacation and put the 35,000 on this years tax return with only 3 months worked,it was a pretty smart move to stay an extra 4 months.(Older people) think this kind of stuff out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PimpDaddy Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Taking the money, and running as fast as I can trying to not let the door hit me in the ass as I go through B) Rights Behine U :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 (edited) not talking about the workers in 40's to early 50's talking about the workers with 35 or more years many have 38 + years and are not going. For the person that has 38 years this package does not benefit them at all. Their retirement will be capped at 30 yrs if they take the $35k bonus, approx $20k after taxes. This means that the additional 8 yrs that they worked will be lost. They will not get the $50 per years of service for the additional 8 yrs that they worked. The break even point will be around 5yrs after they leave. After that they will be losing 8 X $50 or $400 per month. The package definately benefits people that have exactly 30yrs though. Edited March 5, 2006 by Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkkon Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 We all have been on a roller coaster ride ever since the Ford/Visteon deal. Last seven years has been terriable. Not knowing our future from month to month from contract too contract. I signed on too Ford to be Ford for life. My spouse and me both draw paychecks from Ford, after leaving friends and family over 1000 miles away for a better future. We thought our life was set, then the Ford/Visteon deal occurs and I told my wife that all bets was off on our future. After the last seven years we have had enough of the back stabbing politics of the UAW(locally and nationally), the excuses why we can expect COA, health adjustments, job cuts, and plant closing is the best interest for all. You would think with a Fortune 500 company with 100 years of experience, that they would of better planned for this. Seven years ago the Sandusky plant went through a hiring storm, now they want to cut jobs. Okay, I'll will bite and leave. If I mismanaged my finiances and plans such as Ford has I would be so screwed it wouldn't be funny. Funny thing is, I don't have a degree, but my outlook and plans for the future far by-pass what Ford can expect. Maybe not in income, but I know where I am going and what I will be doing in 10 years from now. While Ford seems to be just spinning its wheels in a foriegn quick mire of competition, as thier stock drops. For those of you that stay, and hope for the best, I hope Ford does find itself again and all your jobs will be protected. Maybe the UAW will straighten itself out enough to protect those that deserve it and quit harboring those that don't deserve or appreciate what they have or least what they did have. But, I think we are seeing the tip of the iceburg with the UAW and its problems to come. Thats why we are bailing out. General Quarters has sounded and the ship is on the way down, we was offered a life boat and we are setting sail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot2 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 For the person that has 38 years this package does not benefit them at all. Their retirement will be capped at 30 yrs if they take the $35k bonus, approx $20k after taxes. This means that the additional 8 yrs that they worked will be lost. They will not get the $50 per years of service for the additional 8 yrs that they worked. The break even point will be around 5yrs after they leave. After that they will be losing 8 X $50 or $400 per month. The package definately benefits people that have exactly 30yrs though. This is not necessarily true. Even if you got an extra $400 a month, that would be taxed as well, leaving you somewhere in the neighborhood of net $275 per month. At that rate it would take almost 7 years to accumulate that same $20,000 you would clear from the bonus. Now, if you take the bonus and invest it and receive say 10% in return, at the end of the same 7 years you would have close to $40,000. This buyout is the way to go, regardless of years over 30, and investing money into something conservative on your own is probably much smarter than relying on anything additional in the pension check. Given the state of the company, It's hard to rely on the pension as it is, let alone any length of service bonus that may currently be given. If they don't get the number of people to leave that they want to, extras such as this will probably be taken away soon anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never too old Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Does anyone know the latest total number of people who have signed up for a package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Does anyone know the latest total number of people who have signed up for a package? Whats the last day for you guys to sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never too old Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Whats the last day for you guys to sign? March 7th is the last day to sign up in Sandusky. They are effective April 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 (edited) This is not necessarily true. Even if you got an extra $400 a month, that would be taxed as well, leaving you somewhere in the neighborhood of net $275 per month. At that rate it would take almost 7 years to accumulate that same $20,000 you would clear from the bonus. Now, if you take the bonus and invest it and receive say 10% in return, at the end of the same 7 years you would have close to $40,000. This buyout is the way to go, regardless of years over 30, and investing money into something conservative on your own is probably much smarter than relying on anything additional in the pension check. Given the state of the company, It's hard to rely on the pension as it is, let alone any length of service bonus that may currently be given. If they don't get the number of people to leave that they want to, extras such as this will probably be taken away soon anyhow. You can crunch all of the numbers that you want. The truth is that at some point and time there will be a "break even" point, whether it's at 5yrs, 7yrs, etc..... After the beak even point, a person that takes a $35k package with 38yrs will lose money. To roll the dice on a return on an investment of 10% with the markets the way they've been for the last 6yrs is just that.....a roll of the dice. It would be much wiser to simply retire and get full credit for years of service. Structuring an investment portfolio after retirement is not a very smart financial decision given the fact that any low risk investment, and that's what it will have to be "low risk", will more than likely barely yield enough to keep up with inflation. Obviously one has to re-structure an existing investment portfolio once they retire, but to start one after retirement to offset possible losses is foolish and pointless. The whole purpose of investing young is to have the ablility to be totally liquid at any time after retirement. Edited March 6, 2006 by Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 March 7th is the last day to sign up in Sandusky. They are effective April 1st. Thanks. March 13th is the last day for Saline and effective April 3rd (march 31st being their last day of work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot2 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 You can crunch all of the numbers that you want. The truth is that at some point and time there will be a "break even" point, whether it's at 5yrs, 7yrs, etc..... After the beak even point, a person that takes a $35k package with 38yrs will lose money. To roll the dice on a return on an investment of 10% with the markets the way they've been for the last 6yrs is just that.....a roll of the dice. It would be much wiser to simply retire and get full credit for years of service. Structuring an investment portfolio after retirement is not a very smart financial decision given the fact that any low risk investment, and that's what it will have to be "low risk", will more than likely barely yield enough to keep up with inflation. Obviously one has to re-structure an existing investment portfolio once they retire, but to start one after retirement to offset possible losses is foolish and pointless. The whole purpose of investing young is to have the ablility to be totally liquid at any time after retirement. Investing a lump sum bonus is not foolish, and certainly not pointless. Yes, it is wise to become conservative in the later years, but to imply that a modest return can't be made over the long run is foolish. Look to historical performance data. You can't judge the long term viability of the economy based upon a couple of years of poor performance.The $275 per month that you talk about for years of service will never break even with the investment of the lump sum, provided the person was in a position to invest this bonus. Period. As for thinking it is such a slam dunk to count on not only the pension, but any additional dollars based on "extra years of service", that is ridiculous and riskier than most investments you could make ont he open market. Most will be lucky to draw company paid pension at the standart rate for much longer, let alone get any extra for "extra years of service". Please be reminded that bankruptcy for this company is a very real possibility in the not so distant future, and if that happens, the pensions will be reduced to pay the companies debt. Nobody has any guarantees to a company paid pension. If a person needs that $275 per month that bad, they are probably not in a very good position to retire anyways. Investing a lump sum bonus is not foolish, and certainly not pointless. Yes, it is wise to become conservative in the later years, but to imply that a modest return can't be made over the long run is foolish. Look to historical performance data. You can't judge the long term viability of the economy based upon a couple of years of poor performance.The $275 per month that you talk about for years of service will never break even with the investment of the lump sum, provided the person was in a position to invest this bonus. Period. As for thinking it is such a slam dunk to count on not only the pension, but any additional dollars based on "extra years of service", that is ridiculous and riskier than most investments you could make ont he open market. Most will be lucky to draw company paid pension at the standart rate for much longer, let alone get any extra for "extra years of service". Please be reminded that bankruptcy for this company is a very real possibility in the not so distant future, and if that happens, the pensions will be reduced to pay the companies debt. Nobody has any guarantees to a company paid pension. If a person needs that $275 per month that bad, they are probably not in a very good position to retire anyways. Bottom line, it all depends on need, but the monthly would never break even with the lump sum investment. A guy with 38 years in should have enough privately invested for themselves to take this bonus and invest it for their grandkids education or something along those lines. If he doesn't, well, therein lies the reason that he had to work for 38 years in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynedawg Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 For the person that has 38 years this package does not benefit them at all. Their retirement will be capped at 30 yrs if they take the $35k bonus, approx $20k after taxes. This means that the additional 8 yrs that they worked will be lost. They will not get the $50 per years of service for the additional 8 yrs that they worked. The break even point will be around 5yrs after they leave. After that they will be losing 8 X $50 or $400 per month. The package definately benefits people that have exactly 30yrs though. Are you sure of that?I've been to 2 meetings and never heard that your over 30 years are capped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy G Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Are you sure of that?I've been to 2 meetings and never heard that your over 30 years are capped. Same here. Never heard that mentioned. Where did you get your info???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynedawg Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 For the person that has 38 years this package does not benefit them at all. Their retirement will be capped at 30 yrs if they take the $35k bonus, approx $20k after taxes. This means that the additional 8 yrs that they worked will be lost. They will not get the $50 per years of service for the additional 8 yrs that they worked. The break even point will be around 5yrs after they leave. After that they will be losing 8 X $50 or $400 per month. The package definately benefits people that have exactly 30yrs though. O Buck are you out there? :shrug: Still want to know where you get your info from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 (edited) Are you sure of that?I've been to 2 meetings and never heard that your over 30 years are capped. Got my info from some of the peeps who are taking a package at OHAP. I confirmed it with a few others who I know are taking a $35k package and they're all telling me thats how it works. Can't believe that it's any different for Sandusky. I haven't personally been to any of the meetings other than the initial one for everyone. But everyone I've talked to lately are pretty consistant about the 30yr cap. Better check it out. Edited March 7, 2006 by Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I'll definatly look into this as well. All the plants are being offered the same thing. I have yet to hear of any that are getting an offer, That is not being offered at other plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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