brair Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 The driver's seat frame on my 2006 Ford Focus broke in December of 2007 at less than 40,000 kilometers and about 2 years after purchasing it new.The seat was twisted 45 degrees and was undriveable.Ford claims it is excessive wear and they have a right to deny any warranty claim on anything inside the car.They said they would not cover the repair. I say it is not a rip in the seat or a broken trim piece but an integral part of the safety system and should be covered under warranty. One helpful dealer was willing to send in pictures of my broken seat to Ford for approval to repair but said it could take a week and a half to two weeks to get an answer.As I needed the car and no loaner was offered,I elected to let the broken frame be welded at my cost and took the car back. I now wonder if the integtrity of the seat is compromised and again contacted Ford.Once agin Ford told me excessive wear and no repairs will be covered. I believe this is ludicrous and feel that if I could get the right person's attention at Ford they would warranty the seat frame or entire seat and my problem would be resolved. I don't know how to get Ford's attention and would appreciate any and all ideas on how to proceed. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Regards, brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 The driver's seat frame on my 2006 Ford Focus broke in December of 2007 at less than 40,000 kilometers and about 2 years after purchasing it new.The seat was twisted 45 degrees and was undriveable.Ford claims it is excessive wear and they have a right to deny any warranty claim on anything inside the car.They said they would not cover the repair. I say it is not a rip in the seat or a broken trim piece but an integral part of the safety system and should be covered under warranty. One helpful dealer was willing to send in pictures of my broken seat to Ford for approval to repair but said it could take a week and a half to two weeks to get an answer.As I needed the car and no loaner was offered,I elected to let the broken frame be welded at my cost and took the car back. I now wonder if the integtrity of the seat is compromised and again contacted Ford.Once agin Ford told me excessive wear and no repairs will be covered. I believe this is ludicrous and feel that if I could get the right person's attention at Ford they would warranty the seat frame or entire seat and my problem would be resolved. I don't know how to get Ford's attention and would appreciate any and all ideas on how to proceed. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Regards, brair Ford may send out a rep as I think it is considered safety related, ( has to be since it is designed for strength in a potential fender bender ) That said they are exceptionally "over' engineered, so from Fords standpoint, what was severe enough to rotate said frame into its 45 degree position????? Sorry, but something sounds wrong here, what caused said problem?, that doesn't just happen, and if you are avoiding accountability I will LOSE it! There have been numerous posts here ( usually from posters with all of 10 posts...AHEM! ) that come from those not willing to be held responsible for asome of their own actions...if you are NOT one of the "its never my fault" you need to explain in detail what caused the issue or be prepared to be broiled alive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Yes, interesting trying to diagnose this online. Here is what I see, person is probably a 'XXL+' size. Some how his seat back might have broken at the hinge points. Instead of taking it in, as soon as the problem appeared, he waited until he couldn't drive it any longer. By that time, the frame has gotten bent backwards to the 45 degree, and then he wanted it fixed. Now however he has gotten someone to stick weld it for him. phffffffffft on the warranty. I just got off the phone with Billy at World Headquarters and he said if the guy would mail it in, he would also take a look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 Yes, interesting trying to diagnose this online. Here is what I see, person is probably a 'XXL+' size. Some how his seat back might have broken at the hinge points. Instead of taking it in, as soon as the problem appeared, he waited until he couldn't drive it any longer. By that time, the frame has gotten bent backwards to the 45 degree, and then he wanted it fixed. Now however he has gotten someone to stick weld it for him. phffffffffft on the warranty. I just got off the phone with Billy at World Headquarters and he said if the guy would mail it in, he would also take a look at it. If you are looking for more information on my problem I posted more details under"Ford Motor Company Discussion'.Please also note I have not been looking for a diagnosis but a knowledgeable person at Ford to discuss this issue with. Regards, brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) If you are looking for more information on my problem I posted more details under"Ford Motor Company Discussion'.Please also note I have not been looking for a diagnosis but a knowledgeable person at Ford to discuss this issue with. Regards, brair This sight is not owned and opperated by Ford, it is only sponsored by them. You will have all sorts of responses by people who don't even work at Ford! Isn't this like the third thread you posted on this subject? Edited February 17, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ford may send out a rep as I think it is considered safety related, ( has to be since it is designed for strength in a potential fender bender ) That said they are exceptionally "over' engineered, so from Fords standpoint, what was severe enough to rotate said frame into its 45 degree position????? Sorry, but something sounds wrong here, what caused said problem?, that doesn't just happen, and if you are avoiding accountability I will LOSE it! There have been numerous posts here ( usually from posters with all of 10 posts...AHEM! ) that come from those not willing to be held responsible for asome of their own actions...if you are NOT one of the "its never my fault" you need to explain in detail what caused the issue or be prepared to be broiled alive.... Dean When these seats start to go you do not notice it right off. One day you will get in the vehicles and think hmm the seat feels funny. you will shift around and finally think must just be the jacket i'm wearing (it is winter you know) after driving for a bit you forget all about it. After bit the seat will spontaniously fail. That first time when it felt funny was when the first spot weld pulled through and the seat back had a little more flext it. These things do not happen all of a sudden but it is gradual thing that you do not notice until the seat completly fails. And rarely too never do the hinges fail or there mounting points. It is the upper cross bar inboard that lets loose from the inboard vertical support structure. When the spot welds start to fail the seat back frame flexes introducing fatigueing stresses at all the weld joints. Eventually enough of the welds and the support structure will be be fatigued that it will suddenly fail. Seat structures were one of the first areas manufactureres started to shave weight. Seats in modern cars are hallf the weight of what they used be before down sizing. There is nothign wrong with the new seats they do not need to increase the guage of the metal they just need to better attach the parts together one or two 3.5MM spot welds just do not cut it. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 Dean When these seats start to go you do not notice it right off. One day you will get in the vehicles and think hmm the seat feels funny. you will shift around and finally think must just be the jacket i'm wearing (it is winter you know) after driving for a bit you forget all about it. After bit the seat will spontaniously fail. That first time when it felt funny was when the first spot weld pulled through and the seat back had a little more flext it. These things do not happen all of a sudden but it is gradual thing that you do not notice until the seat completly fails. And rarely too never do the hinges fail or there mounting points. It is the upper cross bar inboard that lets loose from the inboard vertical support structure. When the spot welds start to fail the seat back frame flexes introducing fatigueing stresses at all the weld joints. Eventually enough of the welds and the support structure will be be fatigued that it will suddenly fail. Seat structures were one of the first areas manufactureres started to shave weight. Seats in modern cars are hallf the weight of what they used be before down sizing. There is nothign wrong with the new seats they do not need to increase the guage of the metal they just need to better attach the parts together one or two 3.5MM spot welds just do not cut it. Matthew Thanks to those who tried to help me but Ford has denied me any assistance and has lost me as a customer forever.I will also go out of my way to tell everyone I come in contact with about their non existant customer service and openly laugh at anyone naive enough to buy a Ford. Regards, Brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Thanks to those who tried to help me but Ford has denied me any assistance and has lost me as a customer forever.I will also go out of my way to tell everyone I come in contact with about their non existant customer service and openly laugh at anyone naive enough to buy a Ford. Regards, Brair While they snicker at the 300 pound clown who crushed the seat in the little car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 While they snicker at the 300 pound clown who crushed the seat in the little car. swear this is a no brainer...Ford WOULD have stepped but for what reason>////once again i beleive we are not getting the whole story.....hard to say whos right or wrong or advise when one feels not all is on the table..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 swear this is a no brainer...Ford WOULD have stepped but for what reason>////once again i beleive we are not getting the whole story.....hard to say whos right or wrong or advise when one feels not all is on the table..... I sure thought it was a no brainer.If you look at my first post you'll see all I asked was who I should talk to at Ford of Canada to get the problem resolved.I got the website address from Phil Edmunston's book Lemon-Aide.His book said some people had found help here.Maybe bad advice in this case? Regards, Brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingBender Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks to those who tried to help me but Ford has denied me any assistance and has lost me as a customer forever.I will also go out of my way to tell everyone I come in contact with about their non existant customer service and openly laugh at anyone naive enough to buy a Ford. Perhaps you should consider switching to lite beer. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I sure thought it was a no brainer.If you look at my first post you'll see all I asked was who I should talk to at Ford of Canada to get the problem resolved.I got the website address from Phil Edmunston's book Lemon-Aide.His book said some people had found help here.Maybe bad advice in this case? Regards, Brair sad thing Briar....unfortunately IF you did have an issue, AND it was manufacturing fault, then you may not have screamed long enough or hard enough...i will be quite honest in saying i have seen MANY a customer get declined only to have their situation reversed upon throwing a total hissy fit, or getting attourneys involved....you may want to contact consumer affairs to plead your case....of course this all assumes you weren't at fault..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 sad thing Briar....unfortunately IF you did have an issue, AND it was manufacturing fault, then you may not have screamed long enough or hard enough...i will be quite honest in saying i have seen MANY a customer get declined only to have their situation reversed upon throwing a total hissy fit, or getting attourneys involved....you may want to contact consumer affairs to plead your case....of course this all assumes you weren't at fault..... Thanks for your honest help and opinions.As I stated in my very first post all I wanted was an anwer of who at Ford to plead my case to. Phil Edmunston said to try this site(I had never heard about it before) and I might get some help.,Obviously some very upset people on this site and nobody could tell me contact Bob(or whatever) at such and such number and he could double check your case. Ford just stonewalled me and I thought someone higher at Ford might see the advantage of keeping a customer happy.Not going to happen I guess. Phil also said sue Ford in small claims court and you will usually win because they can't stand the bad publicity.It is an option even though they will probably ask for a gag order so nobody else who has a problem will have any history to fall back on.As I said earlier, my health is not great so I need to consider if it is worh my effort. Rergards, Brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ford may send out a rep as I think it is considered safety related, ( has to be since it is designed for strength in a potential fender bender ) That said they are exceptionally "over' engineered, so from Fords standpoint, what was severe enough to rotate said frame into its 45 degree position????? Sorry, but something sounds wrong here, what caused said problem?, that doesn't just happen, and if you are avoiding accountability I will LOSE it! There have been numerous posts here ( usually from posters with all of 10 posts...AHEM! ) that come from those not willing to be held responsible for asome of their own actions...if you are NOT one of the "its never my fault" you need to explain in detail what caused the issue or be prepared to be broiled alive.... Ford told me they no longer have ANY factory reps so nobody could come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ford told me they no longer have ANY factory reps so nobody could come! was that Ford or the actual dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ford told me they no longer have ANY factory reps so nobody could come! just talked with my service director...total BS...yes there is "less " of them and they can't frequent like they used too, but YES there are still reps......sounds like your dealer may PERHAPS be trying to brush you under the rug, also check your manual, there is an 800 number in there...in fact..here it is...Reporting Safety Defects US, ( NHTSA ) 18004249153, Canada ( transport canada 1 800 333 0510, to utilize Mediation ( may be your best bet ) Canada only call your CAMVAP ( Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan ) Administrator directly at 1-800-207-0685...good luck, keep me updated...Cheers. Reason i'm angry is per you being told there are no more Ford reps..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) Seat structures were one of the first areas manufactureres started to shave weight. Seats in modern cars are hallf the weight of what they used be before down sizing. There is nothign wrong with the new seats they do not need to increase the guage of the metal they just need to better attach the parts together one or two 3.5MM spot welds just do not cut it. Matthew I gotta agree with some of the spotwelded stuff...our 98 windstar has the big drivers door, might never be a problem on ones with the normal door- but one day was out vacuuming out the car and my son ran up and slammed the door...probably the only time before or after the door was shut with window down(ac's on all summer) well with the window down and a running 4 year old, it ripped the spotwelded bracket off the window track- didnt notice till I got done and went to put the window up and it kinda jammed...theres a little bracket that bolts near the latch that holds the top of the track, with 2 pathetically small spotwelds...it was on a Sunday, so I just popped it apart drilled out the one side and migged it back together- and warned the wife to be gentle with the door if the window is down...its a fairly big piece of glass and not a whole lot of support when its down. One other thing about the windstar I didnt care for- was never a problem, might not ever become one, but sure 'looks cheep' when checking out at the dealership...if you watch the hatchback when you go to close the hatch, when you first pull on the door, the sheetmetal flexes- a lot...I noticed when it was brand new, dealer checked another on the lot was same way...always wondered if folks using a windstar for courier duty might have fatigue cracks near the strut mounts someday...our old things got like 87,000 on it, still runs like a top- knock on wood...its taken us to colorado a half a dozen times and several times to florida, cant really fault the thing, its served us well...Its now my winter car so the mustang can sit inside over the winter... I hope to keep my mustang a long long time, hope the seat never snaps- wonder how much load it takes with a 200 pound person sitting there dumping the clutch at 6k going into second...bet its a LOT as that little car can plant your butt pretty decent...I like the seats so much, thinking about looking for a set to put in my 69 fastback- the old mach1 highbacks were kinda flat, the new ones feel a lot better...funny thing- back in 1985 or so I got a recall letter from ford on my 69 seats- latches were being recalled due to failures...but I'd pulled my lowbacks and put the mach interior in, different seats...still thought it was cool to get a recall that many years later...hopefully ford remembered the old latch recall on the 69 seats and the new ones are bulletproof maybe get a set for your focus Edited March 19, 2008 by ford4v429 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Thanks to those who tried to help me but Ford has denied me any assistance and has lost me as a customer forever.I will also go out of my way to tell everyone I come in contact with about their non existant customer service and openly laugh at anyone naive enough to buy a Ford. Regards, Brair What's wrong with this picture? A 300# man climbing into a compact car and then not accepting responsibility for his own condition. . . and blaming a manufacturer for not engineering for the (significantly) oversized. I, unlike you, will not openly laugh at anyone that is so naive to realize that they are what they made of themselves and hope that you can get some help for yourself and learn about accepting the consequences for your own decisions and actions, or lack thereof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 What's wrong with this picture? A 300# man climbing into a compact car and then not accepting responsibility for his own condition. . . and blaming a manufacturer for not engineering for the (significantly) oversized. I, unlike you, will not openly laugh at anyone that is so naive to realize that they are what they made of themselves and hope that you can get some help for yourself and learn about accepting the consequences for your own decisions and actions, or lack thereof. Well one thing that's wrong here, is this site will edit your comments for calling the person overweight. We can have people say all kinds of thing's here about people that do buy a Ford, but if you call a 300 pound person fat or overweight, they edit the comments out because of that. So you tell me who is more wrong? The person making the complaint? Or the site for editing comments because of the obvious physical mismatch? Wait, that didn't make sense. It's allowed to slam the manufacturer and the people who buy the product, but you can't slam the customer because he destroyed the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 What many of you did was not necessary. It was very rude and uncalled for, simple as that. Yes, there may be more to the story than he has said, but the seat, under normal use, should not break. Many heavy people have and do ow small cars. Their weight is also not always completely their own fault ( I wish that was the case in my own circumstance, but I'm working on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 there is the problem. NO ONE Wants personal responsibility. always that one little catch phrase.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 just talked with my service director...total BS...yes there is "less " of them and they can't frequent like they used too, but YES there are still reps......sounds like your dealer may PERHAPS be trying to brush you under the rug, also check your manual, there is an 800 number in there...in fact..here it is...Reporting Safety Defects US, ( NHTSA ) 18004249153, Canada ( transport canada 1 800 333 0510, to utilize Mediation ( may be your best bet ) Canada only call your CAMVAP ( Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan ) Administrator directly at 1-800-207-0685...good luck, keep me updated...Cheers. Reason i'm angry is per you being told there are no more Ford reps..... Both dealers told me that there are no factory representatives(at least in Canada).Funny part is Ford told me they will accept a no from their dealers regarding warranty work but will not necessarily support their dealers if they do the warranty work.By no support, I mean not pay for it. I have already sent a letter to Transport Canada along with my documention.I also sent a note to Wayne Gretzky on the Ford site asking him if he wants to shill for a company that doesn't back its products. Great idea to go for CAMVAP.I think I'll try it. Regards, Brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brair Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 What's wrong with this picture? A 300# man climbing into a compact car and then not accepting responsibility for his own condition. . . and blaming a manufacturer for not engineering for the (significantly) oversized. I, unlike you, will not openly laugh at anyone that is so naive to realize that they are what they made of themselves and hope that you can get some help for yourself and learn about accepting the consequences for your own decisions and actions, or lack thereof. You seem like a very angry person.Since you don't want to help or even talk about the problem with the car I'll give you some personal advice.Try taking an anger management course.Even if it doesn't help you it may make life easier for those who have to put up with you. Also a question for you.Since you obviously have such a hatred for anyone overweight, I must assume one of the following two things.You are so tiny that even a game of chess is too physical for you and you were constantly being beaten by average sized kids throughout your whole childhood.I'm guessing your 5 ft. and 100 lbs and anyone larger is either a giant or overweight. Two, you have been overweight and lost the extra poundage.Now you are a sanctimonious jerk and want everyone to be as unhappy as you are. Either way, why don't you take the moderators advice and only post helpful things? Regards, Brair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Also a question for you.Since you obviously have such a hatred for anyone overweight, I must assume one of the following two things.You are so tiny that even a game of chess is too physical for you and you were constantly being beaten by average sized kids throughout your whole childhood.I'm guessing your 5 ft. and 100 lbs and anyone larger is either a giant or overweight. Two, you have been overweight and lost the extra poundage.Now you are a sanctimonious jerk and want everyone to be as unhappy as you are. You should follow your own advice. Get that anger management as well. I have been to your dealers, I have inquired about your case. Your claim was deemed "owner abuse" for a reason. You aren't happy with that reason so you're being a "squeeky wheel" here in hopes that it will change things. It won't. Mohawk even went so far as welding your seat frame, which they didn't have to do, and is not a Ford prescribed repair. but they went the extra mile, even though you had to pay the shop time. So, I guess you want them out of business as well? So follow the advice of those here, persue Ford in court. If your case is valid, you will win. but if you really thought you had a chance, you would be doing that instead of arguing with people here, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Both dealers told me that there are no factory representatives(at least in Canada).Funny part is Ford told me they will accept a no from their dealers regarding warranty work but will not necessarily support their dealers if they do the warranty work.By no support, I mean not pay for it. I have already sent a letter to Transport Canada along with my documention.I also sent a note to Wayne Gretzky on the Ford site asking him if he wants to shill for a company that doesn't back its products. Great idea to go for CAMVAP.I think I'll try it. Regards, Brair Let me know how it go's, curious....just be as annoyingly persisitant as you can...hate giving that advice, but if you have a case sometimes people only raise a finger to avoid confrontation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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