raw2222 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) So I have heard 10 different dates for the Start. and now i have heard 2 ways of this playing out! i was talking with a Low Seniority Friend and this seems to be the most resent Rumor.. TLO's will continue untill After Shut Down.. Apon return of shut down Joel is trying to back door the plant again and ALLOW high seniority the chance to enter GEN before LOW is forced into the GEN.. ahhh yet another way to make sure his buddies are all taken care of for summer!! IM SORRY HERE folks JOEL stated at our state of the Plant not even a few months ago that GEN/JSP is NOT a benefit for the HIGH seniority! these are tuff times. we ARE losing the battle here! HIGH seniority needs to stay in the plant and be thankful we have a JOB!! NOW all the sudden were going to Change IT??? Hmmm kinda Funny this is right after elections and all the Shit that came out on how LOW senority would not be able to hold thier elected positions. ... BUT were going to swich it so those people would have had NO worries and Can hold thier spots for sure?? Sounds pretty fucking shady if you ask me.. And how is the Trades going to feel about this???? They went LOW to HIGH... NOW JOEL wants to go HIGH to LOW with Production?? WAY I SEE ALL OF THIS!! JOEL's way aka (The RAWSONVILLE WAY) can stick it where the sun dont shine! GEN/JSP- should stay the way its designed. LOW to HIGH. and if Job bids come up they come up. all the LOW seniority i have spoken to are ready and willing to make the move to another Plant, Many of them want to go! JOEL needs to keep his hands off something for once and actually FOLLOW the damn National Agreement!! :reading: Edited May 30, 2008 by raw2222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster6969 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 dude get a contract and read it please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 dude get a contract and read it please!! Reading the contract doesn't make it so. joel has always and will always do as he pleases unless you call him on it. If you think he is going against the contract, verify it and follow the process to get it corrected. If you get no where--call downtown, just follow process first. So many people are ignorant of contract details joel has always played on it. If he can do it with people not checking him he will. Be forewarned, I have called joel on this type of thing before and he can get 'very' angry. Just have all your facts and then take care of it, we all have the same book, he just doesn't expect you to read it and takes advantage of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Reading the contract doesn't make it so. joel has always and will always do as he pleases unless you call him on it. If you think he is going against the contract, verify it and follow the process to get it corrected. If you get no where--call downtown, just follow process first. So many people are ignorant of contract details joel has always played on it. If he can do it with people not checking him he will. Be forewarned, I have called joel on this type of thing before and he can get 'very' angry. Just have all your facts and then take care of it, we all have the same book, he just doesn't expect you to read it and takes advantage of it! Many plants have opted for "inverse seniority" layoffs/GEN in the past. The national as well as local contracts give te option to the Union to mutually agree to do them either way, for various reasons. Sometimes the senior people will bitch that they should have the option to have the summer off, I have personally experienced that, and the Union will okay the wishes of the senior membership to inverse. It's not unheard of at all, nor is it against the contract provisions. I am not saying it is right or wrong in any case without knowing all of the particulars or the wishes of the membership, I am only saying it is not unheard of and it is not automatically un-contractual, as there are provisions to vary .....depending on certain criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Many plants have opted for "inverse seniority" layoffs/GEN in the past. The national as well as local contracts give te option to the Union to mutually agree to do them either way, for various reasons. Sometimes the senior people will bitch that they should have the option to have the summer off, I have personally experienced that, and the Union will okay the wishes of the senior membership to inverse. It's not unheard of at all, nor is it against the contract provisions. I am not saying it is right or wrong in any case without knowing all of the particulars or the wishes of the membership, I am only saying it is not unheard of and it is not automatically un-contractual, as there are provisions to vary .....depending on certain criteria. I agree that seniority should have the choice first. The only problem here will be if there is an opening somewhere else and the lower person is screwed out of a chance to protect their future in the way they want to. Seniority most likely won't choose to leave Rawsonville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) I agree that seniority should have the choice first. The only problem here will be if there is an opening somewhere else and the lower person is screwed out of a chance to protect their future in the way they want to. Seniority most likely won't choose to leave Rawsonville. That does not happen when you agree to inverse...the low seniority are only temporarily working and therefore they are the ones who have to go..or get the choices. The seniority folks are only taking their place and are not subject to any loss. Edited May 30, 2008 by level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 key words 'low senority friend' and 'rumor' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 key words 'low senority friend' and 'rumor' Touche, but you still need to stay informed. You need to know what your future will be like if at all possible so you can plan. Auto jobs have always been insecure and change with the economy. Stay as informed as you can and learn to sort thru the B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raw2222 Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) Touche, but you still need to stay informed. You need to know what your future will be like if at all possible so you can plan. Auto jobs have always been insecure and change with the economy. Stay as informed as you can and learn to sort thru the B.S. Exactly!!!! So to cut threw the Shit... LOW is going to get fucked into Working untill there Number is called to another Plant Rather then Sitting Home till there Number is Called LIKE the JSP was designed to do.. NICE! so the LOW gets double Fucked! Edited May 30, 2008 by raw2222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raw2222 Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 My toughts on this are this... Start LOW to high.. if LOW wants to work LET them work and Allow for one more HIGH to take GEN if they want. that should be the language.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetail Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 My toughts on this are this... Start LOW to high.. if LOW wants to work LET them work and Allow for one more HIGH to take GEN if they want. that should be the language.. that is not how it works, if you are placed in GEN, Openings at other facilities are posted in the plant, everyone has the opportunity to place a bid on those openings, not just at our facility but any facility that has people already in GEN. Once all bids have been submitted to the National job security committee, which is downtown,then those openings are filled by seniority. So if 2 openings are at lets say brownstown and we have 2 high seniority people place a bid on that opening, then they will go and 2 people from GEN will be able to stay in our facility. If no one puts in for those openings then they will force the 2 low seniority people in GEN to that Facility. Hope this makes since to you, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 that is not how it works, if you are placed in GEN, Openings at other facilities are posted in the plant, everyone has the opportunity to place a bid on those openings, not just at our facility but any facility that has people already in GEN. Once all bids have been submitted to the National job security committee, which is downtown,then those openings are filled by seniority. So if 2 openings are at lets say brownstown and we have 2 high seniority people place a bid on that opening, then they will go and 2 people from GEN will be able to stay in our facility. If no one puts in for those openings then they will force the 2 low seniority people in GEN to that Facility. Hope this makes since to you, At Rawsonville--it is done the way the powers that be want it to be!!! Right or wrong, fair or unfair. joel will help whp he wants to get past whats on paper, he will find loopholes. The fact is that seniority has the right to work or not first, that is usually the loophole that is used. A lot of us have been screwed by favoritism at Rawsonville, myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFA Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 ...just so I can get a better understanding of this... If they went High to Low with JSP, and a large number went in--say 20 for one trade (talking trades here) and not enough transfer jobs came up to bid on. Does the high seniority stay in JSP for 2 years or can they opt to come back to work, like after summer--like someone mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 did high seniority trades get offered gen first? didnt think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Someone correct me if I am wrong. But if there is a return to work date for this. It would be clasified as a TLO or "inverted TLO" therefore not JSP. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipefitter Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Someone correct me if I am wrong. But if there is a return to work date for this. It would be clasified as a TLO or "inverted TLO" therefore not JSP. :reading: TLO is not JSP protected status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 TLO is not JSP protected status. Im aware, But is there a return date for those going out? Im just curious, I clicked on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 GEN/JSP = permanent layoff. You cannot survey for that. It goes from the bottom up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 GEN/JSP = permanent layoff. You cannot survey for that. It goes from the bottom up. They never say permanent though, just indefinite. Looks like they are coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 They never say permanent though, just indefinite. Looks like they are coming soon. Same difference. Indefinite/permanent. GEN is for low seniority. TLO is for high seniority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 GEN/JSP = permanent layoff. You cannot survey for that. It goes from the bottom up. Exactly! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Same difference. Indefinite/permanent. GEN is for low seniority. TLO is for high seniority. Have no idea where you work, but at Rawsonville it doesn't always work like that!!! Should, but doesn't!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Have no idea where you work, but at Rawsonville it doesn't always work like that!!! Should, but doesn't!!! Work at Monroe.....for the next couple of months at least. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Work at Monroe.....for the next couple of months at least. :lol: Did your local follow contracts or favorites? Hope you find a job where you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymaker Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 does anybody know when the casting operations/alternator will be moved out of the plant? thank goodness for the work from sandusky and ypsilanti or there would be no rawsonville.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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