Proved: There is no climate crisis

[stephenhawkings]

What history? Mankind's? OUR record of cO2 in the past 10 years? World history? I mean. in the scheme of things we've only been around for a few minutes. Hardly enough to gauge anything resembling a pattern. Again, the scientific arrogance about this thing just floors me.

 

 

well ice cores can measure historical atmoshperic content back 100,000 years or more, that much more than our mere minutes of existence in geological times, or seconds perhaps.

[NickF1011]

well ice cores can measure historical atmoshperic content back 100,000 years or more, that much more than our mere minutes of existence in geological times, or seconds perhaps.

 

I thought all the ice melted because we pollute too much??! :D

[stephenhawkings]

I thought all the ice melted because we pollute too much??! :D

not yet, but we need to keep trying, i can't wait to fire up my 428!

[fxcomet]

That's it, I'm shooting the horse this time...

 

Ice core samples don't tell you a thing as to WHY the levels are the way they were nor do they tell you if that is a good or bad thing. So, Co2 was lower 100K ago. It was also COLDER then, too. MUCH colder. Not a good thing if you're trying to grow crops and feed a population of several billion. Unless you're on the equator, then you could probably care less.

 

So tell me, what are you maniacs going to do about volcanos and cow farts? I know you're in league with the vegans already so that part is partially answered...

[NickF1011]

That's it, I'm shooting the horse this time...

 

Ice core samples don't tell you a thing as to WHY the levels are the way they were nor do they tell you if that is a good or bad thing. So, Co2 was lower 100K ago. It was also COLDER then, too. MUCH colder. Not a good thing if you're trying to grow crops and feed a population of several billion. Unless you're on the equator, then you could probably care less.

 

So tell me, what are you maniacs going to do about volcanos and cow farts? I know you're in league with the vegans already so that part is partially answered...

 

Actually, most CO2 from cows comes from belching, not farting. The worst offender in CO2 fart emissions is the termite. Ah, the random crap you learn watching Discovery Channel.

[fxcomet]

Discovery channel? Suuureee, whatever you say. (Cut to camera two with Nick out in the field with a C02 sniffer first at the front end of the cow and then.....)

[NickF1011]

Discovery channel? Suuureee, whatever you say. (Cut to camera two with Nick out in the field with a C02 sniffer first at the front end of the cow and then.....)

 

I hope you realize this means war. :D

[ford4v429]

IMO, the cycles of the planet over more time than we can comprehend showed warming/cooling, are we aggravating the situation? I bet we are , but I gotta think its just in cahoots with natural cycles too...

 

the thing that worries me about the whole 'carbon' issue is the governments are going to try to 'fix' it by cap and trade bullshit...If I understand correctly(probably dont, but what it sounds like to me)they are gonna say everyone can burn X anount of carbon- if you need more, you gotta buy/trade with someone who needs less...now unless they are gonna make everyone turn down their thermostats or have their gas shut off, just how are they gonna REDUCE carbon output? and big polluting industries that make hefty profits can belch all they want, long as they buy more credits, who cares...who sets the amount of 'credits' given to brand-x power plant? and who gets wined and dined by brand-x shareholders- possibly the same guy? I bet it will be.

Call it what you want, but to me its a 'green tax scheme' of unlimited proportions, but it still wont pay for the numbers with 8 or 9 zeroes that we can only comprehend as 'a lot of money' they have been doling out to everyone that ran a business in the ground lately...its about money, nothing more IMO.

 

if the government was worried about pollution, why do new cars need tested, but if they are commercial vehicles over 10kgvw they are exempt---yes even gas burners that run 100,000 miles a year and aint been tuned up for a few years are exempt in Ohio...one- ONE- truck like that probably pollutes more than 10,000 2 year old passenger cars...but the cars paid 20 bucks apiece,so its just hunkydory. there may not be many of them out there, but the fact that it is legal is really upsetting...tell me youve never been behind a commercial sized gas dumptruck sputtering, stinking of raw gas...Ive seen a few too many and every time it just made the hair on my neck stand up...

 

with the carbon tax, there will still be gross polluters, but they will only be allowed to the rich folks...and how will they enforce it in China? that easy- just look how well trademarks and patents are enforced over there...it AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

 

were dying, theyre growing, were gonna clean tax ourselves the rest of the way to death, while they just keep on burning more than us...tying our other arm behind our back at this point in time is not gonna help this old world much- but it should help China bounce back quicker.

 

So many weird things go on today...green army idiots burning hummers or luxury homes to 'save the planet', only to see insurance companies replace everything- now with twice the natural resources consumed, plus the pullution from burning the first ones...WTF were they thinking?

 

now a 'its ok to pollute if you got the money' tax? WTF are they thinking?

[NickF1011]

IMO, the cycles of the planet over more time than we can comprehend showed warming/cooling, are we aggravating the situation? I bet we are , but I gotta think its just in cahoots with natural cycles too...

 

the thing that worries me about the whole 'carbon' issue is the governments are going to try to 'fix' it by cap and trade bullshit...If I understand correctly(probably dont, but what it sounds like to me)they are gonna say everyone can burn X anount of carbon- if you need more, you gotta buy/trade with someone who needs less...now unless they are gonna make everyone turn down their thermostats or have their gas shut off, just how are they gonna REDUCE carbon output? and big polluting industries that make hefty profits can belch all they want, long as they buy more credits, who cares...who sets the amount of 'credits' given to brand-x power plant? and who gets wined and dined by brand-x shareholders- possibly the same guy? I bet it will be.

Call it what you want, but to me its a 'green tax scheme' of unlimited proportions, but it still wont pay for the numbers with 8 or 9 zeroes that we can only comprehend as 'a lot of money' they have been doling out to everyone that ran a business in the ground lately...its about money, nothing more IMO.

 

if the government was worried about pollution, why do new cars need tested, but if they are commercial vehicles over 10kgvw they are exempt---yes even gas burners that run 100,000 miles a year and aint been tuned up for a few years are exempt in Ohio...one- ONE- truck like that probably pollutes more than 10,000 2 year old passenger cars...but the cars paid 20 bucks apiece,so its just hunkydory. there may not be many of them out there, but the fact that it is legal is really upsetting...tell me youve never been behind a commercial sized gas dumptruck sputtering, stinking of raw gas...Ive seen a few too many and every time it just made the hair on my neck stand up...

 

with the carbon tax, there will still be gross polluters, but they will only be allowed to the rich folks...and how will they enforce it in China? that easy- just look how well trademarks and patents are enforced over there...it AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

 

were dying, theyre growing, were gonna clean tax ourselves the rest of the way to death, while they just keep on burning more than us...tying our other arm behind our back at this point in time is not gonna help this old world much- but it should help China bounce back quicker.

 

So many weird things go on today...green army idiots burning hummers or luxury homes to 'save the planet', only to see insurance companies replace everything- now with twice the natural resources consumed, plus the pullution from burning the first ones...WTF were they thinking?

 

now a 'its ok to pollute if you got the money' tax? WTF are they thinking?

 

Well, the current cap-and-trade proposal applies only to businesses. But who the heck do these politicians think is going to be paying for these carbon credits these companies are going to be buying? That's right. Us, the consumer.

[Trimdingman]

None of this is about helping the environment. It is about creating bigger government. They have latched onto an idea which is being adopted by a large segment of the masses, so they are going with it. It doesn't matter if it is true or not, as long as enough people believe. They tried Global cooling, ozone, oil shortage, food shortage, doomsday clock, "the man", "give peace a chance", detante, and Karl Marx. None of these plans had the punch of this carbon dioxide "greenhouse effect". Maybe it was the right message at the right time, like The Beatles, or Jesus. It seems to have taken on a life of its own. Never mind if there is no proof. Religion flourishes without proof. Only heretics question religion.

[stephenhawkings]

None of this is about helping the environment. It is about creating bigger government. They have latched onto an idea which is being adopted by a large segment of the masses, so they are going with it. It doesn't matter if it is true or not, as long as enough people believe. They tried Global cooling, ozone, oil shortage, food shortage, doomsday clock, "the man", "give peace a chance", detante, and Karl Marx. None of these plans had the punch of this carbon dioxide "greenhouse effect". Maybe it was the right message at the right time, like The Beatles, or Jesus. It seems to have taken on a life of its own. Never mind if there is no proof. Religion flourishes without proof. Only heretics question religion.

bigger governement or environment is in the eye of the beholder, i think we know where your eyes are. perhaps what you are fearful of is bureaucracy

Edited March 4, 2009 by stephenhawkings

[NickF1011]

bigger governement or environment is in the eye of the beholder, i think we know where your eyes are. perhaps what you are fearful of is bureaucracy

 

I'm fearful of a powerful centralized government. All a powerful centralized government knows how to do is become an even more powerful centralized government. Our founding fathers intended for the federal government to be rather weak in comparison to the power bestowed upon the individual states. We've become just the opposite of that.

[Trimdingman]

We need to get government out of every area where it is not absolutely essential for them to be. That would be almost everywhere.

[stephenhawkings]

I'm fearful of a powerful centralized government. All a powerful centralized government knows how to do is become an even more powerful centralized government. Our founding fathers intended for the federal government to be rather weak in comparison to the power bestowed upon the individual states. We've become just the opposite of that.

i am too, but when this big brother gov. has gone on this long and is this entrenched how do you regress back to a smaller gov?

[NickF1011]

i am too, but when this big brother gov. has gone on this long and is this entrenched how do you regress back to a smaller gov?

 

You create a movement powerful enough to get these jackholes out of office and put people in who are willing to do what's best for the nation again instead of what's best for their own wallets. I don't think it's going to happen easily...and quite possibly not peacefully.

[stephenhawkings]

You create a movement powerful enough to get these jackholes out of office and put people in who are willing to do what's best for the nation again instead of what's best for their own wallets. I don't think it's going to happen easily...and quite possibly not peacefully.

well even people get behind 'change' the canidate picks Biden aka Mr. Washington career guy, so i speculate that anything from SUV's to American idol/bachelor, to march madness will distract all the sheep for seing the emperor in his new clothes.

[stephenhawkings]

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/150513/detail/

 

for those who either are non believers of a negative, or believe in mans capacity for change, or rechange.

[NickF1011]

well even people get behind 'change' the canidate picks Biden aka Mr. Washington career guy, so i speculate that anything from SUV's to American idol/bachelor, to march madness will distract all the sheep for seing the emperor in his new clothes.

 

Plenty of us out there tried to tell people that The Great Obama was nothing more than more of the same, but anyone who tried to say as much durnig the campaign was either labeled a right wing Bush-lover or a racist, so I don't really think the message got out very clearly. :shrug:

 

Unfortunately, things usually get worse before they get better.

[Trimdingman]

The tax system has to be changed so that everybody is taxed equally. We now have a system where a huge block of voters pay no tax. Once they get 51% of the people off the tax roles, they will be able to form a dictatorship. All they would have to do is offer each non tax payer $5000 and run on a platform to extend their term to 10 years. When the 10 years is up, they offer them $10,000 to extend the term to 99 years.

 

We have to get rid of all government institutions and decimate the size of government, or future generations will be slaves.

[Savetheplanet]

Plenty of us out there tried to tell people that The Great Obama was nothing more than more of the same, but anyone who tried to say as much durnig the campaign was either labeled a right wing Bush-lover or a racist, so I don't really think the message got out very clearly. :shrug:

 

Unfortunately, things usually get worse before they get better.

The same huh? Obama has only been in office for 5 weeks and he has done more in that time than the science denying George W. did in his 8 years. You guys are in the minority now, the public supports environmental protection. Here is a list of what Obama has already done, read em and weep, then open up your wallets and pay for your overconsumption.

 

• January 26, 2009: President Obama directs the EPA to reconsider the agency's decision to deny California's strong limits on global warming pollution from cars, and he calls on the Department of Transportation to raise national fuel efficiency standards.

• February 4, 2009: More than 100,000 acres of Utah wilderness win protection from oil and gas drilling after the Department of Interior announced that it will cancel 77 leases issued under the Bush administration.

• February 5, 2009: President Obama signs a presidential memorandum requesting that the Department of Energy set new efficiency standards for common household appliances. This will save in 30 years the amount of energy produced by all the coal-fired power plants in America over a two-year period.

• February 6, 2009: The EPA announces it will reconsider its decision to deny California permission to set standards controlling greenhouse gases from motor vehicles.

• February 6, 2009: On instruction from EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, the Solicitor General asks the Supreme Court to drop the Bush administration's desperate appeal to resurrect EPA's illegal and harmful power plant mercury rule.

• February 10, 2009: Department of Interior Secretary Salazar announces that he is going to make a thorough review of the five-year Outer Continental Shelf oil and gas leasing program that was announced in the final days of the Bush administration.

• February 10, 2009: Administrator Jackson grants a petition by NRDC to reconsider and "stay" for three months a harmful midnight air pollution rule adopted by the Bush administration in mid-January 2009 that would allow dirty industries to release more pollution.

• February 13, 2009: Congress came to an agreement on an economic stimulus package that includes bold investments for renewable power and energy efficiency, including weatherization programs that will save consumers billions while creating up to 90,000 jobs. Repairing our nation's outdated and corroded water and waste systems will also create more than 200,000 jobs and improve the safety of our beaches, streams, and drinking water.

• February 17, 2009: EPA Administrator Jackson grants a petition by NRDC, Sierra Club and EDF to reconsider a disputed memo signed by Administrator Johnson in December 2008 that refused to regulate carbon dioxide from new coal-fired power plants. She announced that EPA would convene a public process to review this memo, in what was widely seen as the first step to reversing the Bush policy.

• February 20, 2009: The Obama administration puts its support behind an international, legally binding treaty to reduce global mercury pollution. This position--a dramatic change for the stonewalling of the Bush years--influences policy reversals from other nations including China and India. Now more than 140 countries commit to regulating this dangerous neurotoxin.

• February 24, 2009: In his first State of the Union address, Obama calls on Congress to pass legislation to cap global warming pollution and drive expansion of renewable energy. He also pledges $15 billion a year to invest in solar, wind, biofuels, and more efficient vehicles, and to put American to work making our homes and buildings more energy efficient.

• February 25, 2009: Thousands of acres in Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado will be protected from harmful oil shale research and development after Department of Interior Secretary Salazar announces that he will reverse course on the Bush administration's leasing program.

• February 26, 2009: The Obama administration releases a federal budget that is the first in history to make critical investments in our clean energy future and tackle global warming head on. It includes revenue from a cap and invest program to limit global warming pollution, which is forecast to generate $150 billion over 10 years starting in 2012.

[stephenhawkings]

The tax system has to be changed so that everybody is taxed equally. We now have a system where a huge block of voters pay no tax. Once they get 51% of the people off the tax roles, they will be able to form a dictatorship. All they would have to do is offer each non tax payer $5000 and run on a platform to extend their term to 10 years. When the 10 years is up, they offer them $10,000 to extend the term to 99 years.

 

We have to get rid of all government institutions and decimate the size of government, or future generations will be slaves.

Ok i guess the commie femis of taxation have gotten to you agian isn't it time you started your own topic about canadain commies, this topic doesn't have the word tax, or government in it title, if i pay your $5000 tax fee will you leave this topic alone? or go away until you take your ADD medicine and realize this isn't the 'big government out to get bigger and tax you more' thread.

[Trimdingman]

Obama is throwing billions of dollars at bogus man made global warming at a time when people are out of work and going hungry. What he should do is cut taxes to encourage spending and create jobs. What he is actually doing is creating more pain and government dependence and socialism, and power for himself. Why waste a good crisis? That is their theme song. It should be, why not create a good crisis? That is what they are doing. They created man-made global warming, and they created the financial crisis. If their "solutions" to either of these crises doesn't involve creating more government, I will eat my hat.

[stephenhawkings]

Obama is throwing billions of dollars at bogus man made global warming at a time when people are out of work and going hungry. What he should do is cut taxes to encourage spending and create jobs. What he is actually doing is creating more pain and government dependence and socialism, and power for himself. Why waste a good crisis? That is their theme song. It should be, why not create a good crisis? That is what they are doing. They created man-made global warming, and they created the financial crisis. If their "solutions" to either of these crises doesn't involve creating more government, I will eat my hat.

well hey threw a lot more at the banks like ten to twenty times more, and hes not even your presidnet you live in communist Canada, so if my president wants to spend like 4% or so of his budget on the environemnt its not any of Canadas buisness.

As for big government, it is here to stay, looks like all the red scares of the 50's didn't work, short of a revolution and people acutally figuring out how DC spends their money, I don't see much to distract people from American Idol, fishing, eating, sleeping, foreclosure, texting, etc to make them realize their tax dollars aren't being spent well.

 

Back to global warming, have we come to find any scientific data/study that illustrates how climate change, or mans impact on the environment is all a hoax?

[Savetheplanet]

Today Environment Canada has issued their 10th warning of the season for extremely cold temperatures. More then double the seasonal average. Not to mention, starting from November (the month EC says winter starts), we have had on average below normal temperatures, as well as much as 50cm more snow fall then average (not including the snow in October, nor the snow we received this past weekend and any more we may get).

 

Yeah, this Global warming seems real to me....not

Cocheese,you aint never spent much time on book learnins and such like have you?

 

The chaotic nature of weather means that no conclusion about climate can ever be drawn from a single data point, hot or cold. The temperature of one place at one time is just weather, and says nothing about climate, much less climate change, much less global climate change.

[Savetheplanet]

well hey threw a lot more at the banks like ten to twenty times more, and hes not even your presidnet you live in communist Canada, so if my president wants to spend like 4% or so of his budget on the environemnt its not any of Canadas buisness.

As for big government, it is here to stay, looks like all the red scares of the 50's didn't work, short of a revolution and people acutally figuring out how DC spends their money, I don't see much to distract people from American Idol, fishing, eating, sleeping, foreclosure, texting, etc to make them realize their tax dollars aren't being spent well.

 

Back to global warming, have we come to find any scientific data/study that illustrates how climate change, or mans impact on the environment is all a hoax?

Stevie, the only answer I ever get from them is follow the money, or they tell me that Global warming is a hoax perpetrated by environmental extremists and liberals who want an excuse for more big government (and/or world government via the U.N.).

 

Every major scientific institution dealing with climate, ocean, and/or atmosphere agrees that the climate is warming rapidly and the primary cause is human CO2 emissions. In addition to that list, see also this joint statement (PDF) that specifically and unequivocally endorses the work and conclusions of the IPCC Third Assessment report. The statement was issued by:

 

Here is a list of organizations that accept anthropogenic global warming as real and scientifically well-supported:

 

NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS): http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA): http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC): http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm

National Academy of Sciences (NAS): http://books.nap.edu/collections/global_warming/index.html

State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC) - http://www.socc.ca/permafrost/permafrost_future_e.cfm

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): http://epa.gov/climatechange/index.html

The Royal Society of the UK (RS) - http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=3135

American Geophysical Union (AGU): http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/climate_...e_position.html

American Meteorological Society (AMS): http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/climatechang...earch_2003.html

 

American Institute of Physics (AIP): http://www.aip.org/gov/policy12.html

National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR): http://eo.ucar.edu/basics/cc_1.html

American Meteorological Society (AMS): http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/jointacademies.html

Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS): http://www.cmos.ca/climatechangepole.html

 

 

Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Brazil)

Royal Society of Canada

Chinese Academy of Sciences

Academie des Sciences (France)

Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)

Indian National Science Academy

Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)

Science Council of Japan

Russian Academy of Sciences

Royal Society (United Kingdom)

National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)

 

You can also read this statement [PDF], which includes all the above signatories plus the following:

 

Australian Academy of Sciences

Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts

Caribbean Academy of Sciences

Indonesian Academy of Sciences

Royal Irish Academy

Academy of Sciences Malaysia

Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand

Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences

 

But if scientists are too liberal and politicians too unreliable, perhaps you find the opinion of key industry representatives more convincing:

 

BP

Shell oil

Eighteen CEOs of Canada's largest corporations had this to say in an open letter to the Prime Minister of Canada:

 

Have the environazis seized the reigns of industrial power, in addition to infiltrating the U.N., the science academies of every developed nation, and the top research institutes of North America? That just doesn't seem very likely.