You're driving less, America!

[NickF1011]

Well down here this country formed our great union for the common defense of the states. It was intended for the states to keep there soverignty and do as they please. Maybe if we go back to less FEDERAL GOVERNMENT and leave things to the states as should be there would not be so many priorities for Washington. Remember 9-11, Washington didn't respond one bit that day and the whole thing took place over 6 - 7 hours. Let's give back the states there powers and let Washington worry about what they are supposed to worry about.

 

I agree with that for the most part. There's still a role for the federal government, and that role is more important now than it was in 1776. Even you must realize there's a difference.

[fmccap]

They have more of a clue than the clueless populace that elected them. It's their job to have a clue. It's not our job to worry about it.

Wow, that statement showed me about the "clueless populace that elected them" you were talking about.

[fmccap]

I agree with that for the most part. There's still a role for the federal government, and that role is more important now than it was in 1776. Even you must realize there's a difference.

Tell me the difference please.

[NickF1011]

Tell me the difference please.

 

The difference? We aren't a group of farmers huddled together to escape persecution. We have NATIONAL needs. We require more regulation in business, health care, education, trade, etc which were all NON-issues when the country was founded. There was no need for oversight on things that DIDN'T exist yet. There's just a LOT more to tend to these days. Could more of it be handled by the states instead of the federal government? Absolutely. Are there areas that affect all of the states equally and should be done by the federal government instead to ensure equal footing for everyone? Absolutely.

[NickF1011]

Wow, that statement showed me about the "clueless populace that elected them" you were talking about.

 

So would you say the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee knows more or knows less about the current state of our Armed Services than you do? I would bet it's more. It's the same with the other things they are entrusted to do on our behalf. Most people don't feel like knowing about the details of the Armed Services. We entrust someone else to do it for us.

 

If we voted for EVERYTHING ourselves, why have a government to begin with?

[fmccap]

Enron happened because of Enron. No matter how much government oversight there is, there will always be a crook somewhere trying to steal a dime from investors.

 

Ironic that someone who is always demanding less government interference is blaming the government for not having ENOUGH oversight of an independent corporation.

 

Enron: Under-Regulated or Over-Subsidized?

In truth, however, the problem was not the lack of government involvement with Enron, but rather the close relationship between Enron and government. Enron in fact was deeply involved with the federal government throughout the 1990s, both through its lobbying efforts and as a recipient of large amounts of corporate welfare.

[NickF1011]

Enron: Under-Regulated or Over-Subsidized?

 

If there was proper oversight, that corporate welfare and behind-the-scenes back-scratching within the government probably wouldn't have been happening, no?

[fmccap]

So would you say the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee knows more or knows less about the current state of our Armed Services than you do? I would bet it's more. It's the same with the other things they are entrusted to do on our behalf. Most people don't feel like knowing about the details of the Armed Services. We entrust someone else to do it for us.

 

If we voted for EVERYTHING ourselves, why have a government to begin with?

It's easy to say that for something they are supposed to do.

It's the same with the other things they are entrusted to do on our behalf

Where is an example of our healthcare EXPERT, Road EXPERT, Retirement EXPERT????????

[fmccap]

If there was proper oversight, that corporate welfare and behind-the-scenes back-scratching within the government probably wouldn't have been happening, no?

Proper oversight from who? The EXPERTS in Washington who were giving the corporate welfare to begin with?

 

How about it wouldn't of happened if they weren't involved in things they are not supposed to be involved in in the first place?

[NickF1011]

It's easy to say that for something they are supposed to do. Where is an example of our healthcare EXPERT, Road EXPERT, Retirement EXPERT????????

 

Many of those fall to the Ways & Means Committee I believe. Not sure though. Again, they all know more about those subjects than I care to.

 

If we had to learn something about everything our government does and then vote on it instead of having them act for us, we'd spend more time in the library and at polls than we do at work.

[NickF1011]

Proper oversight from who? The EXPERTS in Washington who were giving the corporate welfare to begin with?

 

How about it wouldn't of happened if they weren't involved in things they are not supposed to be involved in in the first place?

 

Well, most of the additional oversight instituted by SOX involves internal and third party auditors. Now we just need a third party to audit the government itself. :lol:

[Trimdingman]

So would you say the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee knows more or knows less about the current state of our Armed Services than you do? I would bet it's more. It's the same with the other things they are entrusted to do on our behalf. Most people don't feel like knowing about the details of the Armed Services. We entrust someone else to do it for us.

 

If we voted for EVERYTHING ourselves, why have a government to begin with?

 

Who runs the country now? It is not the government. It is the people and the private businesses. If government were to just go away, hardly anyone would even notice. The changes would be mostly for the better. There would be more prosperity. That whack job who killed the kid on the bus would be dead already. Instead, many millions will be spent defending and caring for him; and there will be attention seeking copy-cats. That is government. It is a millstone around our necks.

[Trimdingman]

Where does the military get its weapons from? They are manufactured by private companies. Does the military seek advanced weaponry, and ask the private companies to build it, or do these companies invent it and sell it to the military? We already have a privatized military in everything but name. The government's role is to mismanage it.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Trimdingman

[fmccap]

Where does the military get its weapons from? They are manufactured by private companies. Does the military seek advanced weaponry, and ask the private companies to build it, or do these companies invent it and sell it to the military? We already have a privatized military in everything but name. The government's role is to mismanage it.

Rumsfeld Sept 10, 2001: The Pentagon cannot account for $2.3 TRILLION

More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

[NickF1011]

Where does the military get its weapons from? They are manufactured by private companies. Does the military seek advanced weaponry, and ask the private companies to build it, or do these companies invent it and sell it to the military? We already have a privatized military in everything but name. The government's role is to mismanage it.

 

Without funding from the government, those private companies wouldn't be able to build a single thing. And well...usually they operate entirely under contract. They only build what they are told and paid to build. They really don't have the ability to do much else.

[Trimdingman]

Without funding from the government, those private companies wouldn't be able to build a single thing. And well...usually they operate entirely under contract. They only build what they are told and paid to build. They really don't have the ability to do much else.

 

 

France has the biggest weapons industry in the world. Does the US military tell them what to build? They come up with advanced products, and sell them, sometimes to us, and sometimes to our enemies. The government doesn't have a clue about building weapons. Who invented the atomic bomb? It wasn't the government. Germany could have just as easily gotten it first.

 

They build what they are paid to build, but they have already built and demonstrated the proto-type beforehand. The government did not invent it. They take advantage of the government because the government has a limitless supply of money.

[fmccap]

They take advantage of the government because the government has a limitless supply of money.

We have a winner!!!!! That's why when you take a look at anything the government gets involved in it turns out costing wwwaaayyyyy more and is usually run inefficiently.

 

The Pentagon Purloined Purchases

Remember those famous Pentagon hammers and toilet seats that cost nearly $1,000? One would think the federal government would have learned its lesson: government agencies, especially huge ones like the Pentagon, need close monitoring lest they flush the taxpayers' money down their very expensive toilets.

 

Now we find that the Pentagon has outdone its scandal-ridden self. In recent years it has issued 1.8 million credit cards to its workers, who have racked up some 10 million purchases valued at $5.5 billion in 2000 alone. The problem is that many of those purchases might be fraudulent and the Pentagon is not stepping forward to make good on those debts.

 

But a recent General Accounting Office (GAO) study, for example, looked at two military installations in San Diego. Purchases by personnel from those bases that appeared to be "potentially fraudulent" included $500 for cosmetics at Mary Kay (Gotta look your best in battle); $1,500 in gift certificates from Nordstrom (and show proper appreciation to your friends); and $700 in CDs from Sam Goody (and get your head in the mood to fight). Were these purchases necessary for the defense of the country?

 

P.S. I asked before but never recieved an answer as to something they do right.

Edited August 4, 2008 by fmccap

[NickF1011]

France has the biggest weapons industry in the world. Does the US military tell them what to build? They come up with advanced products, and sell them, sometimes to us, and sometimes to our enemies. The government doesn't have a clue about building weapons. Who invented the atomic bomb? It wasn't the government. Germany could have just as easily gotten it first.

 

They build what they are paid to build, but they have already built and demonstrated the proto-type beforehand. The government did not invent it. They take advantage of the government because the government has a limitless supply of money.

 

Who gives them the money to develop the prototype? Governments do. Why do they build the prototype? Because the government (not necessarily OUR government as you interpreted it) asked them to find a solution to a problem.

 

Who invented the atomic bomb? It was developed through the Manhattan Project, which was entirely government run and funded. Was private enterprise involved? Certainly, but they weren't in charge. It was the same situation in Germany. Of course, during wartime things are sometimes done differently than they otherwise would be.

 

And where did you get this information that France has the biggest weapons industry in the world? Biggest based on what?

[Trimdingman]

Who gives them the money to develop the prototype? Governments do. Why do they build the prototype? Because the government (not necessarily OUR government as you interpreted it) asked them to find a solution to a problem.

 

Who invented the atomic bomb? It was developed through the Manhattan Project, which was entirely government run and funded. Was private enterprise involved? Certainly, but they weren't in charge. It was the same situation in Germany. Of course, during wartime things are sometimes done differently than they otherwise would be.

 

And where did you get this information that France has the biggest weapons industry in the world? Biggest based on what?

 

Actually, France is third, after the US and Russia. It is France's biggest industry. It was scientists who conceived the atomic bomb. The government didn't even know about its potential until scientists told them.

[NickF1011]

It was scientists who conceived the atomic bomb. The government didn't even know about its potential until scientists told them.

 

Conceived the idea. They weren't able to build one until the government funded them to do it.

[suv_guy_19]

It was scientists who conceived the atomic bomb. The government didn't even know about its potential until scientists told them.

 

 

I'm sure there's a scientist of two working for the government.

[NickF1011]

I'm sure there's a scientist of two working for the government.

 

Impossible, I say!!

[Trimdingman]

Government, by its very nature, stifles progress. Forcing people to conform to a certain way of life, whether it is natural for them or not, takes away their independence. When you worship some imaginary god, or some flag, you lose your independence. New discoveries are made by people who think on their own, free of rules and naysayers. These things act as roadblocks to progress. Music and drugs are tools which are employed by religion and political movements to herd the people into non-thinking groups. If you belong to a group, your brain resides in the skull of that group's leader. There are enough ideas in this world for each person to have his own.

[Imawhosure]

Government, by its very nature, stifles progress. Forcing people to conform to a certain way of life, whether it is natural for them or not, takes away their independence. When you worship some imaginary god, or some flag, you lose your independence. New discoveries are made by people who think on their own, free of rules and naysayers. These things act as roadblocks to progress. Music and drugs are tools which are employed by religion and political movements to herd the people into non-thinking groups. If you belong to a group, your brain resides in the skull of that group's leader. There are enough ideas in this world for each person to have his own.

 

Trim,

 

I have to disagree with you on at least part of your statement. The government does foster progress by putting forth a problem for everyone to work on, then help fund the research.

 

Where I DO agree with you is------------>government asks for a solution, then puts shackles on those searching for it by limitations.

 

EXAMPLE------------>We need to free ourselves from the shackles of imported energy. Scientists of America, FIX IT!!!!!!!

 

Then the solutions begin to roll in, and what do we discover, lolol. 1. Drill!!!!!---------->oh no, the enviro nation will have a heartattack.

 

2. Use coal for conversion-------->oh no, no, the enviro nation will have a double heartattack.

 

3. Help Canada--------->oh, the oil is to yucky, the enviros will have a heartattack, and possibly a stroke.

 

4. More nuclear--------->Enviros will have a heartattack, a stroke, and very possibly get cancer to boot.

 

5. Build more dams----->OMG, now you want to kill the fish!

 

And the list goes on, and on, and on.

 

Just listen to Obama, and what he said. I can't quote it, but I will paraphrase it------------->What we need to do is make sure our tires are inflated, and our vehicles tuned up. This will save America 700,000 barrels of imported oil a day. This will help lower the price of oil.

 

I AGREE!!!!!!!

 

But then, lets drill too, and really get it down, lololol.

 

It is painfully obvious that Obama and the DNC will do everything imaginable to misdirect the drilling issue to keep the enviro nation in their fold, and pumping money. It is sooooo bad, he can't even consider nuclear power, cause that sets the enviro nation off more then the use of coal for our powerplants.

 

For those of you at Ford, it should be as plain as the nose on your face, lolol. Just use the 5 whys and ask the questions of Barracks ideas, and why some easier solutions are never addressed, or downright forbidden to enter the conversation.

 

None of you are stupid, so just ask yourself WHY, and you will draw conclusions that will probably scare the hell out of you. Sad thing is---------->you will be RIGHT; and that should scare you even more!

 

I am not suggesting you do this as a scare tactic; remember, YOU will be the one drawing the more than obvious conclusions.

 

If it walks like a socialist, talks like a socialist and goes to Europe for adoration, guess what, IT IS A SOCIALIST!!!!!!

Edited August 7, 2008 by Imawhosure

[Trimdingman]

I wish that "socialist" was a dirty word in Canada like it is in the US. In Canada, we have a political party, the NDP that actually calls itself socialist and is proud of it. Then there is the Liberal Party. How far would they get in the US? How about the Marxist-Leninist Party? I kid you not. Our most famous contemporary prime minister, Trudeau, was once a member of the Communist Party of Canada. During the war, he was a Nazi sympathizer, until they attacked his beloved Soviet Union.