Had enough of this economic uncertainty?

[S.Knight]

I wonder if the current melt down of the financial markets is the beginning of the end to conservatism or just an indicator of how bad this particular administration has been. The executive branch benefited much, before the last congressional mid term election, from a Republican controlled legislature. They were able to control the agenda and table many safeguards in the form of regulation and oversight. If I am not mistaken… Bush didn’t even have to veto a bill in the first part of his administration.

 

What I find most interesting is that these champions of limited market intervention and deregulation have fostered an environment, which has us all teetering on the edge of the worst economic crisis in American history. Their solution… to circumvent the market by huge infusions of government aid, the exact opposite of the platform their economic theory rests on. I love watching these fiscally conservative pundits stammer while trying to explain how they hate to see the markets interfered with, but just can’t seem to see another alternative. The irony is that the solution to the crisis rested in the government regulation Democrats attempted to institute in the first place!

 

Now I must admit I am always forced to wear two hats in these arguments. I hate to see consumers and taxpayers pay the bill for inefficiency (government aid, tariffs, and the like) to protect jobs in failing industries. I don’t think it is governments, via taxpayers, responsibility. But I’m an autoworker!!! So… come on Congress get moving on some subsidies so I can start working overtime…right? I know where my true loyalties lie… in the paychecks I bring home to my family so we can chase the American dream.

 

I know many of my coworkers, as the election approaches, are going to focus on a couple of major issues… gun rights and abortion. I would hesitate to add this third one to the list normally… but after hearing many of my unenlightened coworkers…race. I think those of you who would normally vote with these issues need to look at the price of your home…the balance of your investments… and the security of your economic future, and ask yourself who represents your interests. I know after this latest regime…. our jobs are hanging on by a thread.

[truckster]

I wonder if the current melt down of the financial markets is the beginning of the end to conservatism or just an indicator of how bad this particular administration has been. The executive branch benefited much, before the last congressional mid term election, from a Republican controlled legislature. They were able to control the agenda and table many safeguards in the form of regulation and oversight. If I am not mistaken… Bush didn’t even have to veto a bill in the first part of his administration.

 

What I find most interesting is that these champions of limited market intervention and deregulation have fostered an environment, which has us all teetering on the edge of the worst economic crisis in American history. Their solution… to circumvent the market by huge infusions of government aid, the exact opposite of the platform their economic theory rests on. I love watching these fiscally conservative pundits stammer while trying to explain how they hate to see the markets interfered with, but just can’t seem to see another alternative. The irony is that the solution to the crisis rested in the government regulation Democrats attempted to institute in the first place!

 

Now I must admit I am always forced to wear two hats in these arguments. I hate to see consumers and taxpayers pay the bill for inefficiency (government aid, tariffs, and the like) to protect jobs in failing industries. I don’t think it is governments, via taxpayers, responsibility. But I’m an autoworker!!! So… come on Congress get moving on some subsidies so I can start working overtime…right? I know where my true loyalties lie… in the paychecks I bring home to my family so we can chase the American dream.

 

I know many of my coworkers, as the election approaches, are going to focus on a couple of major issues… gun rights and abortion. I would hesitate to add this third one to the list normally… but after hearing many of my unenlightened coworkers…race. I think those of you who would normally vote with these issues need to look at the price of your home…the balance of your investments… and the security of your economic future, and ask yourself who represents your interests. I know after this latest regime…. our jobs are hanging on by a thread.

 

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

[fantasyfrank]

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

Wow, good reply....I see what you are saying.

[S.Knight]

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

I would argue, that whether you are in opposition or support of abortion or gun control laws, your vote for either candidate in this election will not make a bit of difference. The methods for dealing with, and how the average family will prosper economically as we forward, will though.

[Trimdingman]

I can't believe that the banks were so stupid to make those loans. There has to be something bigger behind this whole mess. Maybe there is a plot to trigger inflation to deflate the national debt to pay for the war. The banks went along because they knew ahead of time that there would be a bail-out. Just a thought.

[truckster]

I would argue, that whether you are in opposition or support of abortion or gun control laws, your vote for either candidate in this election will not make a bit of difference. The methods for dealing with, and how the average family will prosper economically as we forward, will though.

 

I have to disagree with your last post. The two canidates are mile apart of the issue of gun control and abortion. Obama has a record of trying to deny law biding citizens their right to own guns. Obama's support for unlimited abortion is well known.

[bleu]

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

Most who claim they are against abortions, are really only against American abortions. They still spend a lot of money shopping at Wal-Mart who stock their shelves with things that are manufactured in China. In China as you know abortion is common. In fact it's recommended by their government due to over population. So much so, that married couples choose to abort female fetusis in order to carry on the family name. So, while "christian conservatives" preach anti abortion, and still shop at Wal-Mart. They're ok with a dead Chinese fetus. Or they truley would put their money where their mouth is.

[99ktpbirdman]

Most who claim they are against abortions, are really only against American abortions. They still spend a lot of money shopping at Wal-Mart who stock their shelves with things that are manufactured in China. In China as you know abortion is common. In fact it's recommended by their government due to over population. So much so, that married couples choose to abort female fetusis in order to carry on the family name. So, while "christian conservatives" preach anti abortion, and still shop at Wal-Mart. They're ok with a dead Chinese fetus. Or they truley would put their money where their mouth is.

Ron Gettelfinger proposed healthcare coverage for abortion. wwwaccessmylibrary.com

[S.Knight]

I have to disagree with your last post. The two canidates are mile apart of the issue of gun control and abortion. Obama has a record of trying to deny law biding citizens their right to own guns. Obama's support for unlimited abortion is well known.

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to get across. I understand that the candidates are diametrically opposed on those issues. I'm just saying that while opposed, they are bound by the reality that they are incapable of creating any drastic change through legislation.

 

I have always been amazed that Republicans have been able to get people to vote in opposition to their economic well being by using two issues which have so little to do with their day to day life. Not to divert from the real topic (please don't turn this into an argument whether abortion or gun rights are right or wrong)... which is what best for autoworkers. I understand your moral dilemma regarding abortion, but having the law on the books doesn't force you to have one, and thats my real point. Voting for your economic well being makes a personal change in your life... it's effects are intimate with you. While worrying about how abortion effects society regards someone else.

[99ktpbirdman]

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

I hear you truckster. I think you are a noble man for standing up for what you believe in. Even when the opposition out numbers you.

[S.Knight]

There are plenty of people who deserve blame for this mess on both sides. President Clinton signed the bill deregulating the banks, which most democrats would like to forget. I blame President Bush for not putting regulation back into the system. As far as conservatives giving up our issues of guns and abortion, its not going to happin. The christian community holds near and dear the right of the unborn babies to live. Call me a gun toing, church going redneck if you wish, but I would rather lose my job, than lose my values.

 

As for your assertion that Clinton is responsible. I hate when people try to blame the other guy when they get what they want and the results don't work out. Republicans at no time opposed this bill... in fact it was theirs...

 

Regarding the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act you were talking about... here is a snippet copied from Wiki...

 

The bills were introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. This veto proof legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999[1]

The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of Glass-Steagall since at least the 1980s. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service prepared a report which explored the case for preserving Glass-Steagall and the case against preserving the act.[

[99ktpbirdman]

I wonder if the current melt down of the financial markets is the beginning of the end to conservatism or just an indicator of how bad this particular administration has been. The executive branch benefited much, before the last congressional mid term election, from a Republican controlled legislature. They were able to control the agenda and table many safeguards in the form of regulation and oversight. If I am not mistaken… Bush didn’t even have to veto a bill in the first part of his administration.

 

What I find most interesting is that these champions of limited market intervention and deregulation have fostered an environment, which has us all teetering on the edge of the worst economic crisis in American history. Their solution… to circumvent the market by huge infusions of government aid, the exact opposite of the platform their economic theory rests on. I love watching these fiscally conservative pundits stammer while trying to explain how they hate to see the markets interfered with, but just can’t seem to see another alternative. The irony is that the solution to the crisis rested in the government regulation Democrats attempted to institute in the first place!

 

Now I must admit I am always forced to wear two hats in these arguments. I hate to see consumers and taxpayers pay the bill for inefficiency (government aid, tariffs, and the like) to protect jobs in failing industries. I don’t think it is governments, via taxpayers, responsibility. But I’m an autoworker!!! So… come on Congress get moving on some subsidies so I can start working overtime…right? I know where my true loyalties lie… in the paychecks I bring home to my family so we can chase the American dream.

 

I know many of my coworkers, as the election approaches, are going to focus on a couple of major issues… gun rights and abortion. I would hesitate to add this third one to the list normally… but after hearing many of my unenlightened coworkers…race. I think those of you who would normally vote with these issues need to look at the price of your home…the balance of your investments… and the security of your economic future, and ask yourself who represents your interests. I know after this latest regime…. our jobs are hanging on by a thread.

And don't forget Barney Frank the chairman of the Financial Services Committee. What about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid the two most powerful in the senate and congress they had to know something about this before it the fan. There is enough blame to go around. And don't try the class warfare spin.

[CSMJ]

I can't believe that the banks were so stupid to make those loans. There has to be something bigger behind this whole mess. Maybe there is a plot to trigger inflation to deflate the national debt to pay for the war. The banks went along because they knew ahead of time that there would be a bail-out. Just a thought.

The banks were mandated to make these loans!!!!! back in 1994 clinton's admin. and the dems threatened to enact discrimination charges on them and regulate them maore if they did not support his programs for the not qualified ie. poorer people to get "Subprime" loans.

saying that making people show proof of income was quote"discrimination" is the problem with what clinton and the dems did.

Now as I heard a so called millionaire preacher say (clinton's liberal policies) "america's chickens are coming home" Thanks again to the liberal democrats policies!!!!!!! ALL there policies work for a little bit but in the end they lead to destruction!!!!!!!!

Welfare state policies pres. johnson

Unfunded 100K policeman mandate clinton

Unfunded medicare programs johnson

Subprime loans clinton

revolking bank policies from the depression clinton

SIGNING NAFTA CLINTON

SIGNING GATT/WTO for China CLINTON

Raising taxes Carter

[Fatso]

Republicans and Democrats are equally corrupt.Democracy?70% oppose the war in Iraq.70% oppose the bailout of financial institutions.What do we know?What voice do we have?This is tyranny.Create a crisis and hold the taxpayer accountable.Another bailout will be necessary.The precedent has been set.There is no responsibility.This bailout smells like a payback for all the BRIBES {lobbying}that politicians receive.Whatcha gonna do about it,Wilbur?I know,live a shitty life,a constantly stressed out life.OBEY ALL RULES!Spineless.We are all spineless.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Fatso

[StrangeHighways]

What is best for the auto worker? Did you see the debate? One of the first things Obama said"we need to TAX major corporations so they pay their fair share" I fail to see how a tax increase against Ford will help my job. And last I looked Ford is a major corporation.Maybe one of you Obama nutswingers could explain how a near bankrupt company paying higher taxes will help UAW members.

[skittet150]

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to get across. I understand that the candidates are diametrically opposed on those issues. I'm just saying that while opposed, they are bound by the reality that they are incapable of creating any drastic change through legislation.

 

I have always been amazed that Republicans have been able to get people to vote in opposition to their economic well being by using two issues which have so little to do with their day to day life. Not to divert from the real topic (please don't turn this into an argument whether abortion or gun rights are right or wrong)... which is what best for autoworkers. I understand your moral dilemma regarding abortion, but having the law on the books doesn't force you to have one, and thats my real point. Voting for your economic well being makes a personal change in your life... it's effects are intimate with you. While worrying about how abortion effects society regards someone else.

There are two things I will never take away from any American. 1. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I will leave the conservative religous spin out of the abortion debate, and ask you to look at it from the point that every american is intitled to that. Where the debate becomes murky is exaclly when lilfe begins. Some believe at the moment of conception, others believe anywhere inbetween conception and from the time the fetus begins to take shape. Some think that even late term pregnancies can be ended, and if the fetus manages to survive, then it should be ok to allow the fetus to be cast aside and left to die. If I choose to believe that conception is when life begins, that is my right. And in my eyes, I will vote to preserve the first amendment for all Americans, born or unborn. 2. The second amendment is pretty damn clear. If you allow yourselves to believe that the second amendment is out dated, not necessary, or simply mis-interpeted, then you will allow anything in the bill of rights to be re-interpeted by our politicians, and that is just plain wrong. Again, my right to vote my way, your right to vote your way. Betting that either one of these clowns will be able to save our economy is pretty scary. I don't think either one has the smarts, or the power to do it. So at the end of the day, I choose to support the canidate that will preserve the first two amendments. You choose yours. And God help us all!

[fmccap]

Republicans and Democrats are equally corrupt.Democracy?70% oppose the war in Iraq.70% oppose the bailout of financial institutions.What do we know?What voice do we have?This is tyranny.Create a crisis and hold the taxpayer accountable.Another bailout will be necessary.The precedent has been set.There is no responsibility.This bailout smells like a payback for all the BRIBES {lobbying}that politicians receive.Whatcha gonna do about it,Wilbur?I know,live a shitty life,a constantly stressed out life.OBEY ALL RULES!Spineless.We are all spineless.

 

There are links for Congressional and Senate phone numbers and faxes and emails.

Let's Fill Every Congressional Voice Mail Box In The Country

We need to man the phones and start targeting EVERYONE in Congress. Phone every legislative representative in your state. If those fill up, pick another state, even a small one.

 

Tell them it is still no deal, Leave a short message so others can leave one.

 

Fill every in box in the country.

[fmccap]

Here is the draft of the pile of shit they want to pass.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/pdf/firstdraft.pdf

 

Take notice of the joke of an oversight board on page 15.

(B) MEMBERSHIP.—The Financial Stability Over

5sight Board shall be comprised of—

6 (1) the Chairman of the Board of Governors of

7 the Federal Reserve System;

8 (2) the Secretary;

9 (3) the Director of the Federal Home Finance

10 Agency;

11 (4) the chairman of the Securities and Ex12

change Commission; amd

13 (5) the Secretary of Housing and Urban Devel14

opment.

15 © CHAIRPERSON.—The chairperson of the Financial

16 Stability Oversight Board shall be elected by the members

17 of the Board from among the members.

 

700 billion my ass.

SEC. 115. GRADUATED AUTHORIZATION TO PURCHASE.

10 (a) AUTHORITY.—The authority of the Secretary to

11 purchase troubled assets under this Act shall be limited

12 as follows:

13 (1) Effective upon the date of enactment of this

14 Act, such authority shall be limited to

15 $250,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time.

16 (2) If at any time, the President submits to the

17 Congress a written certification that the Secretary is

18 exercising the authority under this paragraph, effec-

19 tive upon such submission, such authority shall be

20 limited to $350,000,000,000 outstanding at any one

21 time.

22 (3) If at any time after obligations of amounts

23 described in paragraphs (1) and (2) have been made,

24 the President transmits to the Congress a written

25 report detailing the plan of the Secretary to exercise

51

[Discussion Draft]

1 the authority under this paragraph, unless there is

2 enacted, within 15 calendar days of such submission,

3 a joint resolution described in subsection ©, effec-

4 tive upon the expiration of such 15-day period, such

5 authority shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 out-

6 standing at any one time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not limited to $700,000,000,000 at all, please note that AT ANY ONE TIME is still there.

[S.Knight]

There are two things I will never take away from any American. 1. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I will leave the conservative religous spin out of the abortion debate, and ask you to look at it from the point that every american is intitled to that. Where the debate becomes murky is exaclly when lilfe begins. Some believe at the moment of conception, others believe anywhere inbetween conception and from the time the fetus begins to take shape. Some think that even late term pregnancies can be ended, and if the fetus manages to survive, then it should be ok to allow the fetus to be cast aside and left to die. If I choose to believe that conception is when life begins, that is my right. And in my eyes, I will vote to preserve the first amendment for all Americans, born or unborn. 2. The second amendment is pretty damn clear. If you allow yourselves to believe that the second amendment is out dated, not necessary, or simply mis-interpeted, then you will allow anything in the bill of rights to be re-interpeted by our politicians, and that is just plain wrong. Again, my right to vote my way, your right to vote your way. Betting that either one of these clowns will be able to save our economy is pretty scary. I don't think either one has the smarts, or the power to do it. So at the end of the day, I choose to support the canidate that will preserve the first two amendments. You choose yours. And God help us all!

You really don't believe that if a democrat is elected you will lose your rights under the second amendment.. do you? Or similarly, if McCAin is elected... abortion will cease? This is precisely what I mean. You are about to make a decision, with your vote, which will impact your economic health negatively, without the smallest change in the things you're voting to support. I find that amazing.

[S.Knight]

What is best for the auto worker? Did you see the debate? One of the first things Obama said"we need to TAX major corporations so they pay their fair share" I fail to see how a tax increase against Ford will help my job. And last I looked Ford is a major corporation.Maybe one of you Obama nutswingers could explain how a near bankrupt company paying higher taxes will help UAW members.

I wonder if you have been paying attention to what's been going on the last couple of years with the auto industry. Ford hasn't been paying a whole lot of taxes over the last couple of years as the losses continue to mount. Are you saying you would continue on this ride so Ford's tax burden can remain zero? Or that... you are worried that if changes are made and Ford returns to profitability they might have to pay a little more in taxes. I don't think your argument makes much sense. You do see that the way things are right now that your job security is in a precarious position... right?

Edited September 29, 2008 by S.Knight

[westmont]

I wonder if you have been paying attention to what's been going on the last couple of years with the auto industry. Ford hasn't been paying a whole lot of taxes over the last couple of years as the losses continue to mount. Are you saying you would continue on this ride so Ford's tax burden can remain zero? Or that... you are worried that if changes are made and Ford returns to profitability they might have to pay a little more in taxes. I don't think your argument makes much sense. You do see that the way things are right now that your job security is in a precarious position... right?

 

I think all of us have been thinking as a UAW members. What I believe as a company we have

failed in design,quality and innovation. We put all our trunk eggs in 1 basket. We have not

listened to our customer. Go to a ford dealership and tell me of a great experience ! I will

not hold my breath. Over 4000 dealerships and they all suck!! As of politics I don't care

for either of them we live in a free country not a socialist one keep goverment out of free

enterprise. As of this proposed bailout or 25billion to secure low interest loans if we were

minding the store and listening to our customer we would be running plants to keep up with

the demand of small fuel efficient cars we don't have. Always playing catch up.

[skittet150]

You really don't believe that if a democrat is elected you will lose your rights under the second amendment.. do you? Or similarly, if McCAin is elected... abortion will cease? This is precisely what I mean. You are about to make a decision, with your vote, which will impact your economic health negatively, without the smallest change in the things you're voting to support. I find that amazing.

What I find amazing is how you can be so confident that the one man or the one party you are going to vote for is going to change your economic situation. I really do believe that if someone who is elected doesn't support my same core values, that they will set out to change them. One indicator is the way a person has voted in the past, but the true indicator is his words. One side has nothing to lose by saying he will lower taxes for 95% of the population. If he can't do it, there well be plenty of reasons as to why he couldn't, and he will list every one. The other side has everything to lose by saying he believes life begins at conception, and he supports less restrictive gun laws. If he goes back on his word, he will forever be known as the great liar. It's about character. It's about promising to veto every bill that comes across his desk that aims to take away our rights that our founding fathers and first American citizens fought hard for. It's about selecting judges that are going to uphold the constitution. Thats what I call a stand up canadate.

[Texas30]

What is best for the auto worker? Did you see the debate? One of the first things Obama said"we need to TAX major corporations so they pay their fair share" I fail to see how a tax increase against Ford will help my job. And last I looked Ford is a major corporation.Maybe one of you Obama nutswingers could explain how a near bankrupt company paying higher taxes will help UAW members.

 

This is the smartest post in this topic................I am as Union as they come but also smart enough to realize that without Ford Motor Company, there is no U.A.W.

 

 

Also, anyone with any amount of common sense knows who will pay for the tax increase on big corporations. We will.

 

Of course when the ONLY reason you vote for a (joke), opps, I mean canidate, is because "he doesn't look like the other people on the dollar bills" issues become meaningless don't they?

[Skilled1]

If you like the way the country is going with high gas prices ((tripled under Bush and the Republican agenda). 4 million good tax paying American manufacturing jobs (under Bush and the Republican agenda) gone unless something changes. An endless war. A less safe world (under Bush and the Republican agenda). High inflation. Milk, Bread, staples have all tripled in the last 6 years. Mortgage crisis. Bank bail out funded by my tax dollars because of Bush and the Republican Agenda further removed the safe gaurds put in place to stop this from happening. Poverty, no middle class, high unemployment, home values less than half from just 3 years ago. My yearly income has continued to drop year after year since 2002. It is sickenig.

 

If you like the Bush, McCain and the Republican agenda, then I guess you will like more of the same and then some.

 

Myself, I am fed up.

 

God bless Obama.........

[S.Knight]

What I find amazing is how you can be so confident that the one man or the one party you are going to vote for is going to change your economic situation. I really do believe that if someone who is elected doesn't support my same core values, that they will set out to change them. One indicator is the way a person has voted in the past, but the true indicator is his words. One side has nothing to lose by saying he will lower taxes for 95% of the population. If he can't do it, there well be plenty of reasons as to why he couldn't, and he will list every one. The other side has everything to lose by saying he believes life begins at conception, and he supports less restrictive gun laws. If he goes back on his word, he will forever be known as the great liar. It's about character. It's about promising to veto every bill that comes across his desk that aims to take away our rights that our founding fathers and first American citizens fought hard for. It's about selecting judges that are going to uphold the constitution. Thats what I call a stand up canadate.

I would propose that you compare the difference in the economy when Bill Clinton left office to what we have now, and you will know exactly the scope of change possible.