Canada's Parliamentary Crisis

[suv_guy_19]

The Governor General has done the right thing in my mind. The Liberal party is divided on this issue, and though I at first supported it because I was upset with the Prime Minister for doing something he knew would anger the others. I believe he is still the best man to run this country given that the Liberal party is divided and has an ineffectual leader. It looks like the Liberals are willing to work with the Conservatives, so hopefully, all of this will be avoided.

 

Nick, you can call it Canada's Parliamentary Crisis

 

Thank God it appears that we have avoided a constitutional crisis.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[NickF1011]

Nick, you can call it Canada's Parliamentary Crisis

 

Done. Even gave it a nice neighborly subtitle. :lol:

[goinbroke2]

Harper was elected by the people. period.

It was a minority so he should of worked WITH his fellow MP's, and didn't.

If there is a loss of confidence in the PM then there is a mechanism to "drop" the govenment.

If this happens then an election is called and a new PM is elected.

 

HOWEVER, if it was a simple "we lost confidence in the PM" then they wouldn't have passed the throne speech. They did.

Since there was an election recently, the liberals know they cannot win if there is an election therefore what else can they do?

Well, since SEPTEMBER the libs and ndp have been talking about a "coalition".

 

SEPTEMBER!

 

This is a sour grapes/I'm not giving up yet/denial thing pure and simple.

 

Even the speaches;

Harper, should of extended an olive branch but didn't.

Dion (when it showed up late/out of focus/too zoomed in) went into election campaigning again! WTF?? HEY SHIT-FOR-BRAINS, THE ELECTION IS OVER, YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!!!

Layton, what can I say, this guy just popped too many pills/smoked too much dope when he was younger

[macattak1]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081204/ap_on_...olitical_crisis

[suv_guy_19]

Done. Even gave it a nice neighborly subtitle. :lol:

 

lol, thanks.

[suv_guy_19]

Harper was elected by the people. period.

It was a minority so he should of worked WITH his fellow MP's, and didn't.

If there is a loss of confidence in the PM then there is a mechanism to "drop" the govenment.

 

 

HOWEVER, if it was a simple "we lost confidence in the PM" then they wouldn't have passed the throne speech. They did.

Since there was an election recently, the liberals know they cannot win if there is an election therefore what else can they do?

Well, since SEPTEMBER the libs and ndp have been talking about a "coalition".

 

SEPTEMBER!

 

This is a sour grapes/I'm not giving up yet/denial thing pure and simple.

 

Even the speaches;

Harper, should of extended an olive branch but didn't.

Dion (when it showed up late/out of focus/too zoomed in) went into election campaigning again! WTF?? HEY SHIT-FOR-BRAINS, THE ELECTION IS OVER, YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!!!

Layton, what can I say, this guy just popped too many pills/smoked too much dope when he was younger

 

Bad first, then good. Overall I agree with you

 

You may be surprised, but I agree with all of it, except this - "If this happens then an election is called and a new PM is elected". Thats not always the way it works, and thats not really the way its legally supposed to work this close to an election that just happened.

 

Oh, and really, even though we think we do, we don't elect government in this country, we elect members that form government amongst themselves. Sometimes, like now, the Governor General has to come in and straighten them out. I have no problem with what the coalition was doing on a legal, constitutional, or democratic level (though I understand why you feel the way you do. I have a problem with the Bloc supporting them on confidence and having as a result, a say on confidence matters. I also have a problem with the way they all reacted, almost suggesting that the Governor General, in her constitutional wisdom, was wrong.

 

Anyway, I agree with the substance of what you said. The should have worked together and now they need to work together and I think they will (at least I hope the will). I would say (though we can only guess) that there was a reason that the talk between the Governor General and the Prime Minister was so long. I think, what she has done with him, and will do with the others (shes supposed to meet them later) is tell them all to play nice, try to get along, and try to make this work without tearing the country apart in the process.

 

Another thing that I think is important, is that (at least i think) the Liberal party is fractured over this. I think that Ignatieff and many of his supporters were not happy about this whole thing (they make up the bulk of the caucus) but they didn't want the party to seem fractured. I think the fact that Rae supported this openly may have cemented his loss in the leadership race. I think the Liberals and the Conservatives will have to work together now (whether Dion [how did we as Liberals ever make that choice?] likes it or not?), though I doubt that the NDP and Bloc will want any part of it.

 

its an interesting time. It was exciting for me at first, but then when anger started from all corners, it became much less interesting and much more worrying. I hope that it all can settle down now.

 

In ending, I will say that I still support Stephen Harper as the head of our government as he is the best choice available and thats why i voted for him (despite the fact that i don't always agree with his ideology). He has to work with the parties though, and he has o remember that he has a minority. I hope he stays Prime Minister until Dion is gone at least....provided that he doesn't do something really stupid between now and then...and I doubt he will make another mistake so big any time soon.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[goinbroke2]

I think harper has and probably always will play hardball with the seperatist and the far laeft bleeding heart freaks. He will now tone it down and work with the liberals and possibly even the ndp to adjust the bill. Then it will pass and people will look back and say WTF? Yeah the opposition DID try and underhandidly grab power from the elected government.

Of course the opposition will say "see. he blinked first and we got harper to use some of our idea's in the budget".

 

Both sides will claim victory.

 

The people of Canada will say F you to the libs next election, especially if harper works with them to govern from the centre.

The ndp are so wacked out that they will be ndp or left lib, that's about it.

[suv_guy_19]

The people of Canada will say F you to the libs next election, especially if harper works with them to govern from the centre.

 

 

The people already said that, but not so much to Liberals (this last election, not the one before) as Stephane Dion. The Liberals will spin this as his idea...besides Ignatieff doesn't like the coalition idea at all, and he will probably be leader. The sooner Dion goes, the better for liberals and really for opposition in Canada.

 

Anyway, we have the best choice out of all the leaders, even if he hiccuped for a few minutes there.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[matthewq4b]

Harper was elected by the people. period.

It was a minority so he should of worked WITH his fellow MP's, and didn't.

If there is a loss of confidence in the PM then there is a mechanism to "drop" the govenment.

If this happens then an election is called and a new PM is elected.

 

HOWEVER, if it was a simple "we lost confidence in the PM" then they wouldn't have passed the throne speech. They did.

Since there was an election recently, the liberals know they cannot win if there is an election therefore what else can they do?

Well, since SEPTEMBER the libs and ndp have been talking about a "coalition".

 

SEPTEMBER!

 

This is a sour grapes/I'm not giving up yet/denial thing pure and simple.

 

Even the speaches;

Harper, should of extended an olive branch but didn't.

Dion (when it showed up late/out of focus/too zoomed in) went into election campaigning again! WTF?? HEY SHIT-FOR-BRAINS, THE ELECTION IS OVER, YOU LOST, GET OVER IT!!!

Layton, what can I say, this guy just popped too many pills/smoked too much dope when he was younger

 

 

I agrre with most of what you say except for this.

 

It was a minority so he should of worked WITH his fellow MP's, and didn't.

 

Was it an issue of Harper not working the other MP's or was it an issue of the other MP's not working with Harper for what was best for the nation as a whole ?

 

I tend to think it was the latter.

What Harper proposed would have not weakened the nation or put it at peril in any manner In fact it would have done the opposit and in the long term made the nation more cohesive and less fractured.

 

The other parties have to realize he is the Prime Minister and the elected leader of the nation.

The only time an elected leader of a minority Government should have a vote of no confidance and an election called is if he and his party are acting in a manner that is detrimental to the nation or the people.

 

And not for any other reason.

 

This was not that case and I'm sure the GG is aware of this. I do not imagine Harper got his pee pee slapped by the GG but was asked to try to be a little more accomodating. After all she did grant Harpers request of porouge with out any hesitation.

 

Dion & Layton on the other hand are proboly going to get a stern talking to for trying to depose an elected governemt that has not commited any gross abuses of power.

 

The GG can talk till she is Blue in the face to Gilles Duceppe as it not going to change one bit how they behave. But I imagine she will have some wards for him none the less.

 

 

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

Was it an issue of Harper not working the other MP's or was it an issue of the other MP's not working with Harper for what was best for the nation as a whole ?

 

Matthew

 

 

I think its a case of both. I think its also a case of Dion thinking his party was behind him. Some may have jumped on for the ride, but I'm hearing that not many supported it.

 

Regardless, I think it will all be worked out now. Any of the outcomes were completely legal and democratic within our system, but that doesn't mean that they were the best thing for the country. I think that the Governor General made the decision she did for national unity.

[Trimdingman]

If they call an election, the Conservatives will get a majority. This coalition government would in no way reflect the will of the people. Knowing all this, why are the Liberals persisting in this move which will poison the people to them for decades? I think that some new president from south of the border has his finger in the pie. He wants a Canadian government similar to the new left-wing American government.

[matthewq4b]

If they call an election, the Conservatives will get a majority. This coalition government would in no way reflect the will of the people. Knowing all this, why are the Liberals persisting in this move which will poison the people to them for decades? I think that some new president from south of the border has his finger in the pie. He wants a Canadian government similar to the new left-wing American government.

 

 

Oh trim Give it a rest and get a life already. Harper is not as far right wing as Obama is. In fact there is not a mainstream party as far right in this nation as Obama is. From an American point of view Harper is half a step right of a socialist.

 

And again that brings us back to an oldie but a goody.

 

The American point of view of the 4 Canadian political parties

 

Left Wing ,Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

Oh trim Give it a rest and get a life already. Harper is not as far right wing as Obama is. In fact there is not a mainstream party as far right in this nation as Obama is. From an American point of view Harper is half a step right of a socialist.

 

And again that brings us back to an oldie but a goody.

 

The American point of view of the 4 Canadian political parties

 

Left Wing ,Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous

 

Matthew

 

 

LOL, so right. I saved your line I liked it so much.

 

Here in our veiw we have leftwing, center, rightwing ,and sepratist party's in the House. Mind you from the American point of veiw of our politcal parties they are communist, socialist , leftwing and treasonous . wink.gif

Matthew

 

BTW, I hope all of this hasn't ended in you hating me.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

Dion needs to go sooner rather than later. The Liberal party is in danger of dying. They need someone who can fundraiser, who can speak both languages well enough, and someone who won't make deals with the far left and the Quebec sovereigntists. There is only one choice for leader and he needs to be there now. I really hope that come January, the Liberals don't commit suicide.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/...ament-poll.html

 

If there were an election today, Harper would have his majority. I don't have a problem with that, I just would like a strong opposition that wasn't Jack Layton. I'd also like to have a choice in the next election. As it is no, despite how I felt about Harper's game a week ago, he is the only and the best choice.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[matthewq4b]

BTW, I hope all of this hasn't ended in you hating me.

 

 

Oh hell no not at all Suv, hell I would even still sit down and have a beer with Trim even if he is a bit of a space cadet at times.

 

If you can not have a freindly argument between freinds whats the point. And I learn as much in these discussions as much as any one else.

 

Do not sweat it.

 

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

My dear American neighbours,

 

I see the political crisis in Canada has finally made it into the Washington Post's Foreign Briefs column.

 

So, anticipating a flood of interest from all of you at the dog run in the morning, let me try to give you some idea of what's happening up there.

 

A few weeks ago, we had an election in Canada, a couple of weeks before yours, actually. A political party known as the Conservatives won.

 

Well, sort of. They didn't win in the sense that most of you understand winning. I'll get to that in a second.

 

They also aren't what most of you would consider conservative.

 

They support what you call socialized medicine, they believe in protecting a Canadian-controlled banking system, they believe in government as a vehicle for transferring wealth between regions, and they've actually muzzled party members who tried to make abortion a campaign issue.

 

In fact, instead of making his Sunday trip to church a photo opportunity, our Conservative leader refuses to discuss his faith in public. (Like many Americans, he's an evangelical Christian).

 

A very interesting (and slightly humourus) read for any Americans that just want to know a bit about what went on. He's making fun of us btw, not you. Neil Macdonald is the Chief Washington Correspondent for the CBC. More at the link: Dear neighbour, about what's going on in Canada

[suv_guy_19]

For anyone that actually read it, parliament was prorogued in the end. So this all put off until January, by which time the Liberals will probably have become split on the issue and left the coalition.

[Edstock]

For anyone that actually read it, parliament was prorogued in the end. So this all put off until January, by which time the Liberals will probably have become split on the issue and left the coalition.

We'll see.

 

You see, most non-PC's have finally figured out that Stevie is dangerous to anybody who isn't part of the Stevie Party.

 

Prior to Stevie's latest piece of purblind stupidity, everybody kept going back to "Why can't we just get along?", and Stevie took this as weakness. His is the kind of mind that equates reasonableness with weakness, and the only thing Stevie understands is sheer power.

 

So middle-of-the road and left-wing parties see that Stevie will never rest until they are destroyed. So, bye-bye, Stevie. A big ego like Stevie's withers, when out of power.

 

Like Dirty Harry said, a man's got to know his limitations.

[suv_guy_19]

We'll see.

 

You see, most non-PC's have finally figured out that Stevie is dangerous to anybody who isn't part of the Stevie Party.

 

Prior to Stevie's latest piece of purblind stupidity, everybody kept going back to "Why can't we just get along?", and Stevie took this as weakness. His is the kind of mind that equates reasonableness with weakness, and the only thing Stevie understands is sheer power.

 

So middle-of-the road and left-wing parties see that Stevie will never rest until they are destroyed. So, bye-bye, Stevie. A big ego like Stevie's withers, when out of power.

 

Like Dirty Harry said, a man's got to know his limitations.

 

 

Eventually he will have to go...but right now....There is no alternative. As someone said on the other message board I visit, Harper can go, but Dion needs to go first. I do hope though, that for the current time, they are able to get along. At least until fall anyway.

[suv_guy_19]

Oh, and this is quite hilarious.

 

Go to "I want to know, did you ever see the tape". Absolutely funny.

 

Small Dead Animals

 

And I can't believe that Bob Fife said "underminded" lol.

Edited December 6, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

Commentary on the situation from Don Newman.

 

The coalition crisis and the lessons learned

[Trimdingman]

Oh trim Give it a rest and get a life already. Harper is not as far right wing as Obama is. In fact there is not a mainstream party as far right in this nation as Obama is. From an American point of view Harper is half a step right of a socialist.

 

And again that brings us back to an oldie but a goody.

 

The American point of view of the 4 Canadian political parties

 

Left Wing ,Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous

 

Matthew

 

You think that Obama is far right? The darling of all of the usual suspects like Oprah and Moore and the rest of Hollywierd is far right? Personally, I would place our present Canadian Government on the left. That is not because of Harper, but because of things like EI, CPP, minimum wage, income tax, socialized health care, et cetera. Harper's ideology can do little or nothing to dismantle this prison we are in. He has to work within it. Obama, on the other hand is just itching to create more government constraints to take away freedom. The spectrum of political ideology from far left to far right is. Communist/Nazi/Fascist on the far left, then Socialist, Liberal, Conservative in the middle, and then less and less government until you have complete Anarchy on the far right.

 

"Left Wing, Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous".........I like it. That's about right. The Socialist wants to sleep with the Communist and the Treasonous. Bob Rae couldn't find enough words in the dictionary to use to put down Dion during the leadership convention. Now he says that Dion is the best man to lead the country out of this crisis even with a yapping Communist Chi Hua Hua on his pants leg, and a Treasonous Bull Dog chomping on his butt.

 

 

Come to think of it, I think that I was the one who first coined "Left Wing, Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous".

Edited December 6, 2008 by Trimdingman

[matthewq4b]

You think that Obama is far right? The darling of all of the usual suspects like Oprah and Moore and the rest of Hollywierd is far right? Personally, I would place our present Canadian Government on the left. That is not because of Harper, but because of things like EI, CPP, minimum wage, income tax, socialized health care, et cetera. Harper's ideology can do little or nothing to dismantle this prison we are in. He has to work within it. Obama, on the other hand is just itching to create more government constraints to take away freedom. The spectrum of political ideology from far left to far right is. Communist/Nazi/Fascist on the far left, then Socialist, Liberal, Conservative in the middle, and then less and less government until you have complete Anarchy on the far right.

 

 

 

Uh just little FYI Trim Harper supports National Health care EI CPP Minimum Wage.

In fact if you actually paid attention to what going during the election and in this coutry instead of in your little world, you would have caught Harper slamming Layton for using Private for profit clinics and not the public system as he and his family does..

 

I met the and have met with the man on several occasions when we was Deborah Grey's executive assistant in the early 90's. Never really stood out to me to be honest. I was very active in the reform party at the time and helped with her campain that got her re-elected in 93.

In fact Harper was tossed out of the Reform party because his veiws were too centralist. (in other words to far left)

 

So Keep dreaming on that one that Harper is some right wing politician. He is any thing but and falls smack dab in the center of the Canadian political landscape.

 

 

 

"Left Wing, Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous".........

Come to think of it, I think that I was the one who first coined "Left Wing, Socialist, Communist, & Treasonous".

 

Are we creating our own history once again?

 

That line was a running gag with reformers in the early mid 90's. On how Americans viewed Canadian politics when the Bloc was running for the 93 Election. Originally it was Centralist (Reform) Left Wing (The Old PC party) Socialist (Liberals) Communist (NDP) & Treasonous (of course the Bloc)

 

I orginally posted that on this board long before you were even member. And FYI I have been a member in one way or anouther since 1999.

 

A swing and a miss. You fail once again Trim.

 

 

Matthew

Edited December 7, 2008 by matthewq4b

[matthewq4b]

We'll see.

 

You see, most non-PC's have finally figured out that Stevie is dangerous to anybody who isn't part of the Stevie Party.

 

Prior to Stevie's latest piece of purblind stupidity, everybody kept going back to "Why can't we just get along?", and Stevie took this as weakness. His is the kind of mind that equates reasonableness with weakness, and the only thing Stevie understands is sheer power.

 

So middle-of-the road and left-wing parties see that Stevie will never rest until they are destroyed. So, bye-bye, Stevie. A big ego like Stevie's withers, when out of power.

 

Like Dirty Harry said, a man's got to know his limitations.

 

 

Harper is dangerous to any body not in his party as he should be. Just as any leader of any party should be. Unfortunately the only one currently in parliament who can hold a candle to him is Gilles Duceppe. Both Men are cut from the same cloth. So Harper knows exactly how dangerous he is.

 

And he runs the Party from the top down as it should be, especially in a coalition Government were the party can not afford loose cannons and screw ups. Yes Harper runs the party with a top down no bullshit attitude as it bloody well should be.

Chrétien was far more of a bully than Harper ever has been when it comes to that. Amazing how fast people forget.

 

Harper knows as we do here in the west just how dangerous the Bloc are.

Just remember if there is ever a Coalition Government in this country the deciding Party will be the Bloc. As who ever forms it the Bloc will be the party the pushes to a majority. In the end the Bloc will be running the nation. Just remember this.

Seems the Eastern Canada has quickly forgot how the separatists had most all our military hardware moved to Quebec before the 1995 referendum and were set and ready to have French (France) troops stationed in Quebec in the event of a Yes vote.

 

Harper is the only one currently looking out for the whole nation. The OP's are only concerned with their regional support bases. The NDP the Urban vote The Liberals with Eastern Canada and the Bloc with Quebec. the Liberals the NDP and the Bloc all have and had platforms that would see their region prosper as the rest of country faltered. Harper was and is the only that has a national plan even today.

 

He had in place in the mini budget 30 Billion set a side for infrastructure improvements in Eastern Canada. That would have meant jobs right now for Ontario and a stimulated the eastern economies. Now that is down the toilet thanks to the coalition. Way to go nut sacks. He did not make any massive economic stimulus spending until we know what the yanks were doing so he could coordinate out efforts with there’s as a responsibly leader should.

He has in place massive tax cuts for corporations to spur growth. That the NDP and the Greens opposed but now support.

 

The coalition wants to spend your money with out an effective plan, Or without insuring the long term success or insuring the most value for the dollar by cordinationg it with the efforts south of the boarder.

 

He wanted to end the forced taxpayer support of political parties to get them to appeal to the nation as a whole and not just regional interest.

I mean really they do need not it. If the parties appeal to the populace they will support them.

a $200 political donation to the party of your choice costs you $50 as $150 of it is tax refunded.

So if a party can not survive on donations from it's own support base then obviously the policies and platforms do not appeal to the people across the nation, and it has no right to form a government.

 

 

Yes Harper is not a great personality. But Personality does not run the nation. Competence does.

Western Canadians are not so easily fooled. We look for substance not personality. Would you rather have a cold fish that is competent can do the job properly or flash and pomp that has no clue and is totally incompetent ?

 

Matthew

[Trimdingman]

Uh just little FYI Trim Harper supports National Health care EI CPP Minimum Wage.

In fact if you actually paid attention to what going during the election and in this coutry instead of in your little world, you would have caught Harper slamming Layton for using Private for profit clinics and not the public system as he and his family does..

 

I met the and have met with the man on several occasions when we was Deborah Grey's executive assistant in the early 90's. Never really stood out to me to be honest. I was very active in the reform party at the time and helped with her campain that got her re-elected in 93.

In fact Harper was tossed out of the Reform party because his veiws were too centralist. (in other words to far left)

 

So Keep dreaming on that one that Harper is some right wing politician. He is any thing but and falls smack dab in the center of the Canadian political landscape.

 

 

 

 

 

Are we creating our own history once again?

 

That line was a running gag with reformers in the early mid 90's. On how Americans viewed Canadian politics when the Bloc was running for the 93 Election. Originally it was Centralist (Reform) Left Wing (The Old PC party) Socialist (Liberals) Communist (NDP) & Treasonous (of course the Bloc)

 

I orginally posted that on this board long before you were even member. And FYI I have been a member in one way or anouther since 1999.

 

A swing and a miss. You fail once again Trim.

 

 

Matthew

 

 

Harper wouldn't be much of a politician if he came out against government health care with a minority in the House. I did say basicly the same thing somewhere on this forum a few years back (Left Wing, Socialist, Communist, Treasonous). I guess some others agree. I have been a contributer to the party since it began as The Reform Party.

 

You will soon see how far left Obama is. I have a suspicion that he is behind this coup of the Canadian government. That is the only explanation that I can fathom for the Liberals destroying their credibility. Obama will look bad compared to a fiscally responsible Conservative government in Canada. He wants to take America to the left regardless of the pain. The people have to believe that what he is doing is necessary. If it is not "necessary" also in Canada, then he loses his credibility.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Trimdingman