Quiet Insider Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ford regards racing in more ways than just monetarily. It is more important to follow the wishes of the family who OWNS the company than those of a salesman OF the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Some years back, I believe Ford projected that racing was a contributor in part to 5% of their revenue. No clue what the methodology was, etc. Dean: As it regards Nascar, Ford is in business with three teams in Nascar. One team sent pit crews to LeMans in the 60s (Wood Brothers). One guy, if memory serves, worked on the GT40 engines (Roush) and the other guy began working with Jack Roush early on (Yates) Ford is 'taking care of its own' in Nascar. Especially the Wood Brothers team which hasn't competed for a Cup in years. I would guess that 5% is a lot less af late, possibly even insignificant...thus my questioning the validitty ( spelling? ) of utilizing racing to begin with, in my mind the $ would be better off on something more productive...ie more advertising.....then agian 100,000 screaming drunk rednecks witnessing an event all at once may have some creedence......Creedence Clearwater Revival that is...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I would guess that 5% is a lot less af late, possibly even insignificant...thus my questioning the validitty ( spelling? ) of utilizing racing to begin with, in my mind the $ would be better off on something more productive...ie more advertising.....then agian 100,000 screaming drunk rednecks witnessing an event all at once may have some creedence......Creedence Clearwater Revival that is...LOL! Did you know CCR was from San Francisco? BTW, did you read, but fail to get the sense of the post I wrote? Ford's in Nascar because they have 'family' in Nascar. 'Family' that has taken good care of Ford in the past (Wood Bros., Yates) and 'family' that is still important to Ford (Roush). But if, say, the Wood Bros. close up shop, Ford won't go looking for a different team to partner up with. If F1 wasn't so daggoned expensive and the Stewarts still wanted to be in it, Ford would probably still be in F1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Did you know CCR was from San Francisco? BTW, did you read, but fail to get the sense of the post I wrote? Ford's in Nascar because they have 'family' in Nascar. 'Family' that has taken good care of Ford in the past (Wood Bros., Yates) and 'family' that is still important to Ford (Roush). But if, say, the Wood Bros. close up shop, Ford won't go looking for a different team to partner up with. If F1 wasn't so daggoned expensive and the Stewarts still wanted to be in it, Ford would probably still be in F1. 1) actually no I didn't....did you know "Heard it thru the grapevine" is not avail as a single thru i-tunes...LOL! I just see this as wasted funds better spent elsewhere...if there was trickle down tech to consumer products I would have NO issues, but $ just for nepetism is just plain wasteful right now when every dollar seems to count.....loyalty I respect, up to a point, but if the company has a whole gains zilch...see ya! Now, if they WERE in fact STOCK cars with STOCK consumer avail powertrain upgrades I would be ALL for it, after all, what better testbeds and ADVERTISING for Ford Racing Parts avail to Joe the Plumber over the counter.....THAT is productive and stimultes Parts business.... Edited January 30, 2009 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 here we go, my parameters.......V8 engine, max capacity 5.0 no superchargers or turbos or nitros..any upgrades must be CARB certified in ALL states and publicly avail over the Ford parts counter, body stock, any aero appendages MUST be avail to the public, same for suspension components. Same for wheels and tires, brakes etc etc...all must be street legal and avail thru your local ford Dealers parts dept. I think the public would take more creedence in those parameters knowing full well the parts avail for their car were race tested for endurance etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Did you know CCR was from San Francisco? BTW, did you read, but fail to get the sense of the post I wrote? Ford's in Nascar because they have 'family' in Nascar. 'Family' that has taken good care of Ford in the past (Wood Bros., Yates) and 'family' that is still important to Ford (Roush). But if, say, the Wood Bros. close up shop, Ford won't go looking for a different team to partner up with. If F1 wasn't so daggoned expensive and the Stewarts still wanted to be in it, Ford would probably still be in F1. Did you know that.......Jackie Stewart was Edsel Ford II's best man? Family indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 1) actually no I didn't....did you know "Heard it thru the grapevine" is not avail as a single thru i-tunes...LOL! I just see this as wasted funds better spent elsewhere...if there was trickle down tech to consumer products I would have NO issues, but $ just for nepetism is just plain wasteful right now when every dollar seems to count.....loyalty I respect, up to a point, but if the company has a whole gains zilch...see ya! Now, if they WERE in fact STOCK cars with STOCK consumer avail powertrain upgrades I would be ALL for it, after all, what better testbeds and ADVERTISING for Ford Racing Parts avail to Joe the Plumber over the counter.....THAT is productive and stimultes Parts business.... 1) I'm guessing you can't get Heard it Through the Grapevine because Fogerty didn't write it. Can you get the Marvin Gaye or Aretha Franklin versions? 2) It's not nepotism. Furthermore, you have no way of knowing how much Jack Roush contributes back to Ford because you don't know (such details are confidential) how much he's involved in Ford's performance products. Here's a for instance (pure speculation): because Ford cuts ties with Jack Roush & Nascar, Jack Roush stops consulting for Ford, and starts souping up GM products. Because of that, the Coyote V8 ends up hitting the market with 350hp (same as the Duratec35) and 350lb-ft of torque. Meanwhile, Roush starts selling a range of souped up Silverado pickups, G8s, etc. for his newfound 'friends' at GM. Would you want that kind of a scenario to unfold? Make no mistake, Jack Roush has been involved in developing the Coyote V8. I couldn't tell you how, but he has been involved in it. Now, you want Ford to drop Nascar, burn their bridges with Roush, and all that just to prove a point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I would guess that 5% is a lot less af late, possibly even insignificant...thus my questioning the validitty ( spelling? ) of utilizing racing to begin with, in my mind the $ would be better off on something more productive...ie more advertising.....then agian 100,000 screaming drunk rednecks witnessing an event all at once may have some creedence......Creedence Clearwater Revival that is...LOL! The Ford family doesn't view them as rednecks. If you sell Ford vehicles maybe you shouldn't make that public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Did you know that.......Jackie Stewart was Edsel Ford II's best man? Family indeed. I did not know that I think Edsel Ford II has been the guy that has gone to bat for Ford's racing 'family' over the years, when other execs (possibly even family members) have wanted to cut and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGallun Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 iam a motorsports fan, i watch nascar, indys, grand am, WRC, off road, nhra.. having somebody calling me a redneck because iam a nascar fan shows me that the person is a bit out of touch with the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 iam a motorsports fan, i watch nascar, indys, grand am, WRC, off road, nhra.. having somebody calling me a redneck because iam a nascar fan shows me that the person is a bit out of touch with the times. apologies no offense was meant personally...its a sweeping stereotype based on witnessing first hand the TV footage of the crowds...my guess is the camersa RELISH in portraying that as reality ( witness the constant close up of beer drinkers )....WRC rocks, and i'm a huge F1 fan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 The Ford family doesn't view them as rednecks. If you sell Ford vehicles maybe you shouldn't make that public. seems I've touched a nerve with a couple....no offense was meant guys, just call it as I see it....and the TV coverage portrays it as such...deliberate?...I would not doubt it...Indianappolis is the same...one big BOOZE fest per coverage.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) The current TF/FC billet engines have lineage to but are pretty far removed from the original 426 Chrysler design. Most of the key concepts on these contemperary fuel engines were used on Fords well before Chrysler "invented" them anyway. In the late `40's we all know of the ARDUN hemi conversion for Ford blocks but there were others like the Stevens OHV hemi heads. The deep crankcase "Y" design was widely used by FoMoCo starting in 1952 on the Lincoln V8's. I don't believe Chrysler went to this design till 1959. The current TF/FC hemi's share the cyl head bolt pattern but I believe the bolt sizes are vastly upgraded. In addition the location of the oil pump and distributer is pure Chrysler. From what I understand the NHRA dictated the 4.8" bore center and the Boss 500 block is the creation of the Force/Ford team between the block faces. Additionally the heads were redesigned but held on tight parameters by the NHRA. I thought it would have been neater to see a Boss valvecover rather than a valve cover cover. The gear drive system traditionally used by Ford type blocks like the old AR's used to drive the oil and fuel pumps along with the ignition system would have given this engine a more Ford like appearance and better functionality. See it's no longer a game where factory parts are used. Aftermarket companies can easily design specialized components up to and including blocks and heads. No more the car manufacturer with the best factory stuff wins. Nowadays they can whittle a billet a V8 out and call it a John Deere and go out and win races. Stray Kat, I haven't seen you around in a long time. Good to hear from you. Now we just need hemisbc to add his predictable slant and it will be like old times around here. Edited January 31, 2009 by Paul Selby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 The current TF/FC billet engines have lineage to but are pretty far removed from the original 426 Chrysler design. Most of the key concepts on these contemperary fuel engines were used on Fords well before Chrysler "invented" them anyway. In the late `40's we all know of the ARDUN hemi conversion for Ford blocks but there were others like the Stevens OHV hemi heads. The deep crankcase "Y" design was widely used by FoMoCo starting in 1952 on the Lincoln V8's. I don't believe Chrysler went to this design till 1959. The current TF/FC hemi's share the cyl head bolt pattern but I believe the bolt sizes are vastly upgraded. In addition the location of the oil pump and distributer is pure Chrysler. From what I understand the NHRA dictated the 4.8" bore center and the Boss 500 block is the creation of the Force/Ford team between the block faces. Additionally the heads were redesigned but held on tight parameters by the NHRA. I thought it would have been neater to see a Boss valvecover rather than a valve cover cover. The gear drive system traditionally used by Ford type blocks like the old AR's used to drive the oil and fuel pumps along with the ignition system would have given this engine a more Ford like appearance and better functionality. See it's no longer a game where factory parts are used. Aftermarket companies can easily design specialized components up to and including blocks and heads. No more the car manufacturer with the best factory stuff wins. Nowadays they can whittle a billet a V8 out and call it a John Deere and go out and win races. It's a shame that Dan Davis allowed NHRA to dictate the design parameters of the Boss 500. It is basically a Chrysler with 4.84 bore centers (Boss 429's are 4.900) He spent in excess of $3M to develop the Boss 500 including the forged Alcoa block. The only thing Ford are the 429 main bearings. This fear that NHRA and the other Nitro engine builders have go back the the Austin family and the Boss 9 blown alchohol engine they built albeit with old AR designed block and Indy billet heads. This thing made 500 HP more than the best Alan Johnson Chrysler. That is why Davis had to build a Chrysler clone. The Boss 9 would have wrecked havoc in the alchohol and nitro classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Insider Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 But if, say, the Wood Bros. close up shop, Ford won't go looking for a different team to partner up with. If F1 wasn't so daggoned expensive and the Stewarts still wanted to be in it, Ford would probably still be in F1. Wrong and wrong There is so much more involved in the process of deciding the direction of motorsports involvment. It is better to comment on facts than personal opinion, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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