VOTE NO!!!NO!!!NO!!! UNBELIEVABLE HOW ANY OF WOULD VOTE YES>STAND UP FOR ONCE AND FIGHT

[Hobbitt]

DO YOU NOT THINK FORD ISNT QUIETLY TAKING CARE OF THE SUPPLIER PROBLEM IF THAT DID HAPPEN?? CMON ALREADY!!! IT WOULD BE STUPID IF THEY WASNT,BECAUSE IF GM AND CHRYSLER WENT BANKRUPTSY IT WOULD MAKE FORD NO. 1. SO REST ASSURE FORD IS COVERING THEIR BASES ON THAT MATTER.

From what I can gather Ford is trying to cover the bases...but it will take months to do it, if it's even possible.

[Len_A]

DO YOU NOT THINK FORD ISNT QUIETLY TAKING CARE OF THE SUPPLIER PROBLEM IF THAT DID HAPPEN?? CMON ALREADY!!! IT WOULD BE STUPID IF THEY WASNT,BECAUSE IF GM AND CHRYSLER WENT BANKRUPTSY IT WOULD MAKE FORD NO. 1. SO REST ASSURE FORD IS COVERING THEIR BASES ON THAT MATTER.

First, you can stop with the all caps - I know you're "yelling" and all it does is makes you look low class.

 

Ford can't take care of all of the supplier problem - you have zero concept of how deep and bad the problem is. It's not only the Tier One suppliers like Lear, Metaldyne, Borg Warner, FormTech Industries LLC, Visteon, Delphi, etc. It's the Tier Two suppliers that supply the Tier Ones, and no way on God's green Earth does Ford have the money to take care of the problem. 80% to 85% of the suppliers Ford uses are shared with Chrysler and GM, and Ford parts are made on the same lines and same equipment, in the case of plastic interior parts at the same time as GM & Chrysler parts (I've seen this in more injection molding facilities, over the last ten years, than I care to count). In some cases, the majority of the tooling is owned by either GM or Chrysler, and a GM or Chrysler C11 ties up the use of that tooling for weeks to months while the bankruptcy (it's a "c" in bankruptcy, not an "s" - use spell check, for pete's sake)court sorts things out. Ford isn't number one, as you assert. Ford is shut down. Period. And where those suppliers are also shared with eth transplants, guess what - they get shut down as well. Everyone is scared by this. All you have to do is look at what happened with PlasTech Engineered Products last year - it took major maneuvering to get Johnson Controls to buy them and keep from shutting every one down. That was one supplier. Now try eighty to a hundred at the same time - not going to be pretty by any means. Even one of Toyota's execs came out last December, and said that they, Honda, and Nissan are, in his words, "joined at the hip with (their) Detroit brethren in manufacturing" because they share suppliers. Honda and Nissan immediately concurred on that, and pissed off the Republican gas bags in D.C. That said, those three companies are trying to take care of themselves by lining up Japanese suppliers to step in with parts in the event of a GM and/or Chrysler C11, but they've said that would be spotty parts coverage at best. And Toyota and Nissan are burning through cash as well as Ford. No one is goign to hold up well to a GM and/or Chrysler C11.

 

Complicating all this even further is the absolute fact that all of teh auto suppleris, even the American subsidiaries of Japanese or European parts makers, live off their lines of credit. Ford, GM, Chrysler, and even the tranplants, pay for parts in 45 day increments, so as a suppleir you're always waiting for money. Suppleir profit margins are skinny, if they're even making money, and during those 45 days they have top make payroll and pay for raw materials. You better beleive that the people you supply the Tier One and Two suppleirs do not give a shit that the finished goods go to an automaker, adn they twice don't give a shit if the automaker is one of the Big Three. All those lines of credit use the incoming money from the Big Three and the transpalnts as collateral. Now hte news on teh auto industry is so bad, adn the banks are all trying to cover their asses so much, that now they're starting to tell teh suppleirs that GM & Chrysler receivables (the incoming money from GM & Chrysler) and even FOrd receivables, are no longer suffiencent collateral for the lines of credit. Furthermore, if even one of the Big THree files for C11, all lines of credit are immediately cancelled and all outstanding loans are called in.

 

Pray tell, how the fuck does Ford cover everybody's ass on that, and keep the suppliers all running so Ford gets parts? This is EXACTLY the nightmare scenario my dad, a Local 600 retiree, said, twenty years ago, could happen if these Big Three morons started outsourcing too much of their parts production. Guess what? My dad and all those old timers were right. And we can all thank the people Reagan sent to Japan, including Doug Fraser, who scared the hell out of the Japanese auto and government officials, when he pounded his fist on the table and said if you're going to sell in the USA, build in the USA, because all those transplants built their USA/Canadian/Mexican assembly and engine and transmission operations on the same supplier base that grew out of the Big Three's outsourcing efforts. Ford shares about 80% to 85% of the suppliers with GM & Chrysler, and the transplants share about 65% with the Big Three, so everyone is at risk.

 

And if Ford's UAW members turn this contract modification down, the bean counters in the administration and the both GOP and Democrat critics of the Big Three will take it as a sign that all three companies need to be forced into bankruptcy to make the changes these critics think are needed. You are in a lose-lose situation, and the International is trying liek hell to make the best out of a real shitty situatio.

 

 

From what I can gather Ford is trying to cover the bases...but it will take months to do it, if it's even possible.

They're trying, but there's too many Tier One suppliers and too many Tier Two suppliers to set everyone up to keep Ford out of trouble. Like I said above, this is the exact nightmare my Dad and all the old timers predicted could happen if there was too much outsourcing.

 

This is going to get very ugly, and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[NoMoVisteon]

After the Congressional hearings late last fall, adn the negotiations between the Bush adminsitrations and GM & Chrysler, both Mulally and Fields said whatever concessions are negotiated at GM & Chrysler, they expect to get the same. It's part of pattern bargaining that bites the UAW in the ass now, and there isn't a G*d damn thing you can do or say that changes it.

 

 

Now you're either an idiot or completely full of shit. If GM or Chrysler is forced into a Chapter 11 filing, Ford is going to be forced into the same when most of the suppliers tank because of a GM & Chrysler's C11. Ford's production will be disrupted, if not completely stopped by supplier shortages, and with no money coming in, and fixed expenses to pay, a Ford C11 would be inevitable.

Excellent points, Len. What I find disturbing is that some people think that even if Ford winds up in Chapter 11, that basically they'll still be on the employee rolls. NOT NECESSARILY! Once a bankruptcy court and judge gets the filing, the first thing that happens is that ALL contracts of various kinds in the case are frozen. As the case moves on, and the reorganization gets under way, certain contracts will be voided and others will be re-worked. And you can bet that the first contract in the mix that will get either a severe re-work or an outright void is ALL the labor agreements, healthcare/dental/vision/life insurance, pay rates, pensions and retirements, all of it. Remember, the court is now making the decisions. Simply put: IT'S GONE! It also takes the union right out of the picture as far as employee representation. Of course, they'll work out issues with suppliers and others so they can keep the ability to produce vehicles. But that will be done without the UAW being around and whether they would hire any of the former employees after this is a toss up. My guess is that they would want all new employees. That way, they can dictate pay scales, work rules and other things. Or worse, they'll just close down the operations in the US and the vehicles will be built ENTIRELY out of the country. Think it can't happen? IT CAN!!! And the loss and carnage will be incredible for those of us who still work for Ford or are retired from the company, not to mention the same for suppliers, and other parts of the economy that will be affected by all of this across the board.

 

IT JUST BURNS MY ASS, LEN, THAT THERE A QUITE A FEW EMPLOYEES AT FORD THAT SIMPLY DO NOT REALIZE WHAT IS JUST POSSIBLY AROUND THE CORNER READY TO SPRING ON TO THE SCENE LIKE A HUNGRY WILDCAT ON THE HUNT. IF THAT HAPPENS--IT'S GAME OVER.

[Len_A]

Excellent points, Len. What I find disturbing is that some people think that even if Ford winds up in Chapter 11, that basically they'll still be on the employee rolls. NOT NECESSARILY! Once a bankruptcy court and judge gets the filing, the first thing that happens is that ALL contracts of various kinds in the case are frozen. As the case moves on, and the reorganization gets under way, certain contracts will be voided and others will be re-worked. And you can bet that the first contract in the mix that will get either a severe re-work or an outright void is ALL the labor agreements, healthcare/dental/vision/life insurance, pay rates, pensions and retirements, all of it. Remember, the court is now making the decisions. Simply put: IT'S GONE! It also takes the union right out of the picture as far as employee representation. Of course, they'll work out issues with suppliers and others so they can keep the ability to produce vehicles. But that will be done without the UAW being around and whether they would hire any of the former employees after this is a toss up. My guess is that they would want all new employees. That way, they can dictate pay scales, work rules and other things. Or worse, they'll just close down the operations in the US and the vehicles will be built ENTIRELY out of the country. Think it can't happen? IT CAN!!! And the loss and carnage will be incredible for those of us who still work for Ford or are retired from the company, not to mention the same for suppliers, and other parts of the economy that will be affected by all of this across the board.

 

IT JUST BURNS MY ASS, LEN, THAT THERE A QUITE A FEW EMPLOYEES AT FORD THAT SIMPLY DO NOT REALIZE WHAT IS JUST POSSIBLY AROUND THE CORNER READY TO SPRING ON TO THE SCENE LIKE A HUNGRY WILDCAT ON THE HUNT. IF THAT HAPPENS--IT'S GAME OVER.

It burns my ass, too. I can't believe how myopic some people are, and how they think this is really negotiable. It's not, and any number of missteps, by any group of stake holders, can tank this entire industry, perhaps permanently. I wonder how many of these guys realize that maybe as many as two-thirds of the suppliers have been getting extra cash payments from all of the automakers, any number of times during the last two years, just to keep from shutting production down. Unbelievable. Like you said, they don't realize what's around the corner, and how close to "game over" this industry is, and how much the majority of Americans don't care. Edited March 4, 2009 by Len_A

[fordworker]

Do some math.. count the votes already cast. Its over it will pass and you know it. The numbers dont lie.

give up your grandstanding. You dont like it then Quit find another job paying $28 an hour with full benefits.

[rn4]

Ford sales down 48% in February.

Ford February sales

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/February09sales.pdf

Edited March 3, 2009 by rn4

[sterling joe]

Don't worry they won't have to vote again because part of the new contract states the company and the UAW wont need to have any future changes radified by the membership a yes vote is your last vote

WTF ,dont remember seeing that in the HIGHLIGHTS

[sc99gt]

well hid in the verba

[cecilmeyer]

I think the concessions are horse shit, but what other choice do we have? Vote no and then take it to GM and pattern the agreement after what GM agrees to? If that happens, our next choice will be even worse. Plus think of what the media will do with this, and how public opinion of each and every one of us will be. Who cares you might ask? The people that vote for government officials that have us by the balls. As much as I HATE to say it, we have to vote for this piece of shit agreement.

What makes you think when GM gets more concessions than we gave them they won't be back crying they cannot compete and have to have what GM got?

[cecilmeyer]

Do some math.. count the votes already cast. Its over it will pass and you know it. The numbers dont lie.

give up your grandstanding. You dont like it then Quit find another job paying $28 an hour with full benefits.

Why don't you quit instead of staying around and rolling over and giving in without even fighting?

[takeme back 2blue]

well hid in the verba

would you care to post that well hidden language on here? :shades:

[cecilmeyer]

what happens when you vote no and they go to GM and come back with something worst YOU VOTE NO AGAIN!! we have a contract we don't have to accept any changes we should all start a class action law suit against the UAW for having ford involved with this shit we are not taking bailout money

Finally somebody with some brains and a backbone.You are exactly right.If we vote it down and they come back with something worse we vote it down again.Pretty simple for even the dumbsuck@sses telling us to vote for this garbage. Edited March 4, 2009 by cecilmeyer

[cecilmeyer]

what part of "pattern bargaining" do you not understand?

 

Not to mention you have no legal standing to sue the UAW over this.

What part of a no vote do you not understand?

[takeme back 2blue]

Finally somebody with some brains and a backbone.You are exactly right.If we vote it down and they come back with something worse we vote it down again.Pretty simple for even the dumbsuck@sses telling us to vote for this garbage.

I dont think you are the one with brains. You have backbone and a very HARD HEAD! I guess you will never understand till your nuts are cut off but son you have no legs to stand and fight! Look around you son,everything is in the shitter right now! :shades:

[FiredMotorCompany]

If you want to see how bad it is in Dearborn, go to Zillow.

 

Put Dearborn, MI in the location box.

 

How about a home for $6000.00 within 5 minutes of Ford WH?

 

Median price of homes sold in MI reaches $7500.00

 

Seven thousand five hundred!

 

Now tell me Ford is not in trouble, and this modification will not pass based simply on MI votes!!

 

 

My heart goes out to those families.

 

There but for the grace of God, go I.

[Len_A]

What part of a no vote do you not understand?

what part of you have no choice do you not understand. I'm looking forward to this passing (BTW, moron, third local passed it), so I can hear you geniuses come up with more brilliance.

[mgamerica]

First, you can stop with the all caps - I know you're "yelling" and all it does is makes you look low class.

 

Ford can't take care of all of the supplier problem - you have zero concept of how deep and bad the problem is. It's not only the Tier One suppliers like Lear, Metaldyne, Borg Warner, FormTech Industries LLC, Visteon, Delphi, etc. It's the Tier Two suppliers that supply the Tier Ones, and no way on God's green Earth does Ford have the money to take care of the problem. 80% to 85% of the suppliers Ford uses are shared with Chrysler and GM, and Ford parts are made on the same lines and same equipment, in the case of plastic interior parts at the same time as GM & Chrysler parts (I've seen this in more injection molding facilities, over the last ten years, than I care to count). In some cases, the majority of the tooling is owned by either GM or Chrysler, and a GM or Chrysler C11 ties up the use of that tooling for weeks to months while the bankruptcy (it's a "c" in bankruptcy, not an "s" - use spell check, for pete's sake)court sorts things out. Ford isn't number one, as you assert. Ford is shut down. Period. And where those suppliers are also shared with eth transplants, guess what - they get shut down as well. Everyone is scared by this. All you have to do is look at what happened with PlasTech Engineered Products last year - it took major maneuvering to get Johnson Controls to buy them and keep from shutting every one down. That was one supplier. Now try eighty to a hundred at the same time - not going to be pretty by any means. Even one of Toyota's execs came out last December, and said that they, Honda, and Nissan are, in his words, "joined at the hip with (their) Detroit brethren in manufacturing" because they share suppliers. Honda and Nissan immediately concurred on that, and pissed off the Republican gas bags in D.C. That said, those three companies are trying to take care of themselves by lining up Japanese suppliers to step in with parts in the event of a GM and/or Chrysler C11, but they've said that would be spotty parts coverage at best. And Toyota and Nissan are burning through cash as well as Ford. No one is goign to hold up well to a GM and/or Chrysler C11.

 

Complicating all this even further is the absolute fact that all of teh auto suppleris, even the American subsidiaries of Japanese or European parts makers, live off their lines of credit. Ford, GM, Chrysler, and even the tranplants, pay for parts in 45 day increments, so as a suppleir you're always waiting for money. Suppleir profit margins are skinny, if they're even making money, and during those 45 days they have top make payroll and pay for raw materials. You better beleive that the people you supply the Tier One and Two suppleirs do not give a shit that the finished goods go to an automaker, adn they twice don't give a shit if the automaker is one of the Big Three. All those lines of credit use the incoming money from the Big Three and the transpalnts as collateral. Now hte news on teh auto industry is so bad, adn the banks are all trying to cover their asses so much, that now they're starting to tell teh suppleirs that GM & Chrysler receivables (the incoming money from GM & Chrysler) and even FOrd receivables, are no longer suffiencent collateral for the lines of credit. Furthermore, if even one of the Big THree files for C11, all lines of credit are immediately cancelled and all outstanding loans are called in.

 

Pray tell, how the fuck does Ford cover everybody's ass on that, and keep the suppliers all running so Ford gets parts? This is EXACTLY the nightmare scenario my dad, a Local 600 retiree, said, twenty years ago, could happen if these Big Three morons started outsourcing too much of their parts production. Guess what? My dad and all those old timers were right. And we can all thank the people Reagan sent to Japan, including Doug Fraser, who scared the hell out of the Japanese auto and government officials, when he pounded his fist on the table and said if you're going to sell in the USA, build in the USA, because all those transplants built their USA/Canadian/Mexican assembly and engine and transmission operations on the same supplier base that grew out of the Big Three's outsourcing efforts. Ford shares about 80% to 85% of the suppliers with GM & Chrysler, and the transplants share about 65% with the Big Three, so everyone is at risk.

 

And if Ford's UAW members turn this contract modification down, the bean counters in the administration and the both GOP and Democrat critics of the Big Three will take it as a sign that all three companies need to be forced into bankruptcy to make the changes these critics think are needed. You are in a lose-lose situation, and the International is trying liek hell to make the best out of a real shitty situatio.

 

 

They're trying, but there's too many Tier One suppliers and too many Tier Two suppliers to set everyone up to keep Ford out of trouble. Like I said above, this is the exact nightmare my Dad and all the old timers predicted could happen if there was too much outsourcing.

 

This is going to get very ugly, and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[mgamerica]

Excuse me there sir. No reason to call anyone low class on here for just stating their opinion on here. That's what this forum is for. I didn't say or try to say one bad thing about anyone on here.

 

You made some good points. You must be a union rep in the IUAW. Just trying to defend what you all have agreed on. Not saying anything bad to you either and by the way, I was not yelling cause I was using caps,I just felt like it and no it doesn't make me look low class. I'm sorry I'M not up in your class there union brother.

Well I wish us all luck and hope we survive what our Union has done to us

 

MY VOTE IS STILL NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!