Jaah Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 The union presents the facts and then YOU get to decide if YOU like the deal or not.....don't like it? then vote no and then vote the reps out if you think you are being mis-led. That's assuming you actually make an effort to take care of yourself by going to the ratification vote...or you could just listen to the voices/idiots on the internet. You pick!!Seems fairly simple. Wrong, the union presents the highlights. Why are you so against seeing the actual contract language? Then again perhaps you are one of the "voices/idiots on the internet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Wrong, the union presents the highlights. Why are you so against seeing the actual contract language? Then again perhaps you are one of the "voices/idiots on the internet". Look Junior, I'm VERY aware of what MY UNION presents at a rat vote....that does not preclude you from asking all your questions...I've never seen a member who was cut off and not allowed to speak at a ratification vote............even tho some of them should have been LOL It's going to get passed..............if you think Ford is faking this crisis ............then you vote no and call em out. I think we should give what they want right now.......however as SOON as Fords returns to a pre 2002 sales and profit scenario then we get all we gave up back.....no question no negotiations...just put it back where it was, or screw off. As far as being on of those "voices/idiots on the internet....at least I publish my real name and place of work...................how about you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Anyone know when they are picking the next target? Been listening to the TV but so far I've heard nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbill Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Look Junior, I'm VERY aware of what MY UNION presents at a rat vote....that does not preclude you from asking all your questions...I've never seen a member who was cut off and not allowed to speak at a ratification vote............even tho some of them should have been LOL It's going to get passed..............if you think Ford is faking this crisis ............then you vote no and call em out. I think we should give what they want right now.......however as SOON as Fords returns to a pre 2002 sales and profit scenario then we get all we gave up back.....no question no negotiations...just put it back where it was, or screw off. As far as being on of those "voices/idiots on the internet....at least I publish my real name and place of work...................how about you??? Whilst I agree with a good portion of your post "charly"....How many of us on this board honestly believe Ford will fall all over themselves giving us ANYTHING back that they are wanting now? None of the automakers are faking any crisises.....but what they ARE doing is putting ALL of the recovery of this industry on our backs! Some U.S. economists are starting to spout off that their economy will "probably" start to turn around before the end of this year. While I myself highly doubt that will happen.....most of what Ford is looking for won't take effect till Jan. 1, 2010. What happens if it does turn around? You can bet your last loonie that Ford sure as hell won't be knocking on Lewenza's door backing up the truck with all our "concessions". Their spin doctors will make it look like Ford will take years to recover....hell at the end of this contract if it goes through, they'll still be looking for more in 2012!!! Yeah I'll be at any ratification vote...but I'm done giving these clowns any more!!! All of what our retirees, and us over 20 years have fought sooooo hard for, simply cannot be given away at a boardroom table and ever expect to see it again! I will vote NO and Call 'em out.....how bout the rest of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Whilst I agree with a good portion of your post "charly"....How many of us on this board honestly believe Ford will fall all over themselves giving us ANYTHING back that they are wanting now? None of the automakers are faking any crisises.....but what they ARE doing is putting ALL of the recovery of this industry on our backs! Some U.S. economists are starting to spout off that their economy will "probably" start to turn around before the end of this year. While I myself highly doubt that will happen.....most of what Ford is looking for won't take effect till Jan. 1, 2010.What happens if it does turn around? You can bet your last loonie that Ford sure as hell won't be knocking on Lewenza's door backing up the truck with all our "concessions". Their spin doctors will make it look like Ford will take years to recover....hell at the end of this contract if it goes through, they'll still be looking for more in 2012!!! Yeah I'll be at any ratification vote...but I'm done giving these clowns any more!!! All of what our retirees, and us over 20 years have fought sooooo hard for, simply cannot be given away at a boardroom table and ever expect to see it again! I will vote NO and Call 'em out.....how bout the rest of us? I, of course will be at the (if there is one) ratification meeting. Hopefully, the ballots will be held until after the info is reported and the questions have finished. I will then be informed on the facts. I will make my own choice how to vote. My line is in the sand but, I've seen that line blown away by hard facts before. The big problem I have is, WE as a Union KNEW the economy was going to get bad, real bad. Hence we went to Ford early last year and mutually agreed to concessions. The Union and the Company both bargained in good faith. Ford stated, earlier that they would not need loans from the government. Now they've gone full circle and I think they are trying to take advantage of the situation. That in itself is leaning me to a "up yours Ford" negative attitude! Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I think we should give what they want right now.......however as SOON as Fords returns to a pre 2002 sales and profit scenario then we get all we gave up back.....no question no negotiations...just put it back where it was, or screw off. Ground control to Charly...... Do you believe in Santa too? As far as being on of those "voices/idiots on the internet....at least I publish my real name and place of work...................how about you??? Publishing your real name and place of work (if that is indeed true) on an anonynous forum on the internet only confirms my opinion. Even 12 year olds no better than that, junior. By the way you still have not told me why you have gotten so wound up over someone wanting to read the contractual language rather than just highlights previous to voting. Perhaps you could disperse with the attitude and provide your reasons and this thread could get back to something more constructive than name calling and berating of other posters, but if you wish to persist carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastime Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 NO PRODUCT!.......NO CONCESSIONS!.......VOTE NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloha Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Whilst I agree with a good portion of your post "charly"....How many of us on this board honestly believe Ford will fall all over themselves giving us ANYTHING back that they are wanting now? None of the automakers are faking any crisises.....but what they ARE doing is putting ALL of the recovery of this industry on our backs! Some U.S. economists are starting to spout off that their economy will "probably" start to turn around before the end of this year. While I myself highly doubt that will happen.....most of what Ford is looking for won't take effect till Jan. 1, 2010.What happens if it does turn around? You can bet your last loonie that Ford sure as hell won't be knocking on Lewenza's door backing up the truck with all our "concessions". Their spin doctors will make it look like Ford will take years to recover....hell at the end of this contract if it goes through, they'll still be looking for more in 2012!!! Yeah I'll be at any ratification vote...but I'm done giving these clowns any more!!! All of what our retirees, and us over 20 years have fought sooooo hard for, simply cannot be given away at a boardroom table and ever expect to see it again! I will vote NO and Call 'em out.....how bout the rest of us? for someone who has been around so long, you seem to forget concessions were made in the 70s how about the early 80s remember our pph days, no one wants to give back, but we have in the past and we got them back and plus, do you really think its time to say fuck you, i for one dont, but i will remember what we did when this economy turns around and people start buying vehicles again. your playing russian roulette with no chance of winning by saying no.....just a thought and only my thought, i will be voting yes, because i would hate to see what happened to delphi happen to our retirees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) for someone who has been around so long, you seem to forget concessions were made in the 70s how about the early 80s remember our pph days, no one wants to give back, but we have in the past and we got them back and plus, do you really think its time to say fuck you, i for one dont, but i will remember what we did when this economy turns around and people start buying vehicles again. your playing russian roulette with no chance of winning by saying no.....just a thought and only my thought, i will be voting yes, because i would hate to see what happened to delphi happen to our retirees If this was the 70's I would agree with you. Back then our competition was GM and Chrysler, now it Japan and Korea and soon to be China. I doubt you will see a quick return of concessions if at all as long as we are competing with poverty wages. Also some of us posting here are from STAP which is due to close in 2011, I doubt we will see any return on our investment (read concessions) before then. I won't berate you for voting YES if your not from a plant in imminent danger of closing but for some of us there is more at stake than a few concessions. NO PRODUCT!.......NO CONCESSIONS!.......VOTE NO! Edited March 17, 2009 by Jaah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oac bodyboy Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I, of course will be at the (if there is one) ratification meeting. Hopefully, the ballots will be held until after the info is reported and the questions have finished. I will then be informed on the facts. I will make my own choice how to vote. My line is in the sand but, I've seen that line blown away by hard facts before. The big problem I have is, WE as a Union KNEW the economy was going to get bad, real bad. Hence we went to Ford early last year and mutually agreed to concessions. The Union and the Company both bargained in good faith. Ford stated, earlier that they would not need loans from the government. Now they've gone full circle and I think they are trying to take advantage of the situation. That in itself is leaning me to a "up yours Ford" negative attitude! Ed. Excellent post Ed, your facts are right on with everything I have read as well. Pattern bargaining seems to have bit us in the ass this time. Ford has said because of pattern bargaining everything you give them you have to give to us! Also when Ford said they will not need Gov. assistance that was based on the industry selling 12 million car/trucks. Now new numbers out there say around 9 million cars/trucks will be sold, so it is my belief that Ford will have to tap the line of credit by the end of this year, or early next year. So in my OPINION we should accept what we bargain now and than draw that line in the sand and say no more!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Excellent post Ed, your facts are right on with everything I have read as well. Pattern bargaining seems to have bit us in the ass this time. Ford has said because of pattern bargaining everything you give them you have to give to us! Also when Ford said they will not need Gov. assistance that was based on the industry selling 12 million car/trucks. Now new numbers out there say around 9 million cars/trucks will be sold, so it is my belief that Ford will have to tap the line of credit by the end of this year, or early next year. So in my OPINION we should accept what we bargain now and than draw that line in the sand and say no more!!! How many lines are we going to draw? We are edging towards the precipice. The success or failure of the auto companies does not hinge on the drop in the bucket of concessions from us. It will affect us greatly, but the industry not an iota. If we are going to downgrade our profession to the level of retail clerks anyway, what harm will it do for us to stand up? If they shut down, or if we give in, we will have crappy low paying jobs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You are a real dick! You defend capitalism and bash the Union, yet you keep coming off as a militant. Do you know if your a boy or a girl? Undue your pants and check will you please and get back to me. Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putt Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You are a real dick! You defend capitalism and bash the Union, yet you keep coming off as a militant. Do you know if your a boy or a girl? Undue your pants and check will you please and get back to me. Ed. He sure knows how to get to you, keep it up and you lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTPisdead Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would much rather see my base rate go down however far it needs to cover any lost benefits or holidays. Our union is out of touch with us. How much can we sell Port Elgin for? How much does it cost to fly a brother from Edmonton to Port Elgin to take a one or two week course there? We could save a bundle by shutting down the union hall bar downstairs, as it has been sucking money out of our funds since Brian Feil left as President years ago. I'm sick of our financial secretary reporting in the 707 reporter about anything but our finances! Why is more money going out every month on business expenses than is coming in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTPisdead Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I, of course will be at the (if there is one) ratification meeting. Hopefully, the ballots will be held until after the info is reported and the questions have finished. I will then be informed on the facts. Ed, we don't agree on everything (anything?), but you know people are going to show up and vote blindly without stepping into the discussion room. I don't understand why the ballots are not held until after the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 We could save a bundle by shutting down the union hall bar downstairs, as it has been sucking money out of our funds since Brian Feil left as President years ago. I'm sick of our financial secretary reporting in the 707 reporter about anything but our finances! Why is more money going out every month on business expenses than is coming in? Now you've done it.......lol....don't bash anything Union....someone might have a tantrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloha Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would much rather see my base rate go down however far it needs to cover any lost benefits or holidays. Our union is out of touch with us. How much can we sell Port Elgin for? How much does it cost to fly a brother from Edmonton to Port Elgin to take a one or two week course there? We could save a bundle by shutting down the union hall bar downstairs, as it has been sucking money out of our funds since Brian Feil left as President years ago. I'm sick of our financial secretary reporting in the 707 reporter about anything but our finances! Why is more money going out every month on business expenses than is coming in? obviously you dont go to union meetings, the bar hours were extended by the membership. go to the next meeting and tell them you want to close it, but we no you wont, come to the meeting and talk about the finances but we no you wont.this local is in better finances today, come to a meeting but we no you wont, ask how lost time has been reduced dramatically ask your reps but again we both no you wont, i hate to see you sick as you said you are, maybe take that silver spoon out of your mouth and come to a meeting BUT AGAIN WE BOTH NO YOU WONT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyfromSTAP Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 obviously you dont go to union meetings, the bar hours were extended by the membership. go to the next meeting and tell them you want to close it, but we no you wont, come to the meeting and talk about the finances but we no you wont.this local is in better finances today, come to a meeting but we no you wont, ask how lost time has been reduced dramatically ask your reps but again we both no you wont, i hate to see you sick as you said you are, maybe take that silver spoon out of your mouth and come to a meeting BUT AGAIN WE BOTH NO YOU WONT Holy shit Einstein I no you don't no how to spell know!I don't no how someone like you makes it through the day...you no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloha Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Holy shit Einstein I no you don't no how to spell know!I don't no how someone like you makes it through the day...you no? WOW, now that is impressive, you must be a Lawyer? Doctor? Accountant? Teacher? There is know way you can be an assembler on the line, you are way to smart for that. If only I could meet someone as smart as you, the road would be endless, you must have made your Mom and Dad proud. Good for you!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would much rather see my base rate go down however far it needs to cover any lost benefits or holidays. Our union is out of touch with us. People go to work every week to get a paycheck last time I checked. Benefits are something that comes along with the job. You are the one that is out of touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyfromSTAP Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 WOW, now that is impressive, you must be a Lawyer? Doctor? Accountant? Teacher? There is know way you can be an assembler on the line, you are way to smart for that. If only I could meet someone as smart as you, the road would be endless, you must have made your Mom and Dad proud. Good for you!!!! No(that's as in the negative)I'm just a guy laughing at your dumb ass.I'm pretty sure there's a big OAC thread where you can try to keep on topic there.You no what I mean?You could try and post in the thread that cares about the OAC bar....but what I do I no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 You are a real dick! You defend capitalism and bash the Union, yet you keep coming off as a militant. Do you know if your a boy or a girl? Undue your pants and check will you please and get back to me. Ed. I try to make sense of the world. Sometimes I criticize unions and sometimes I criticize corporations. Nearly always, I criticize government. I am not religious. That includes Christianity, NDP, Al Gore, and CAW Local 707. I don't believe or have faith. I look at things and form my own opinions. What we do now about concessions will not change any decisions about car companies pulling out of Canada. That decision, one way or the other, has already been made. If they are really planning on pulling out of Canada, they will want the Canadian people to wrongly believe that it is our fault. They will do this by asking for unreasonable concessions, which we will reject. In this scenario, they would want us to reject them so they would still look like the good guy when they pull out. If they are planning to pull out of Canada, the real reason is because the US government is forcing them to in order to get bailout money. I don't believe that this is the case, but it is a real possibility when you look at which way the US is headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) This really isn't relevant to the agreement though it is a testament to the people at STAP J.D. Power and Associates on Thursday released its annual survey of vehicle dependability based on questionnaires sent to owners of 2006 model-year vehicles. Large Car: Highest ranked: Mercury Grand Marquis Runners-up: Buick Lucerne, Mercury Montego Large Premium Car: Highest ranked: Lexus LS430 Runners-up: Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS Now you know what you get when you invest NO money and throw your product into fleet only. If they had a category for fleet we would have been on top of that to. FORD you can say thanks by taking 40 more hours of my holidays and $30 a month co-pay and whatever else was in that bull shit agreement Your welcome adding the Ranger from that other plant they want to close: Midsize Pickup Highest ranked: Ford Ranger Edited March 19, 2009 by BT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Whilst I agree with a good portion of your post "charly"....How many of us on this board honestly believe Ford will fall all over themselves giving us ANYTHING back that they are wanting now? None of the automakers are faking any crisises.....but what they ARE doing is putting ALL of the recovery of this industry on our backs! Some U.S. economists are starting to spout off that their economy will "probably" start to turn around before the end of this year. While I myself highly doubt that will happen.....most of what Ford is looking for won't take effect till Jan. 1, 2010.What happens if it does turn around? You can bet your last loonie that Ford sure as hell won't be knocking on Lewenza's door backing up the truck with all our "concessions". Their spin doctors will make it look like Ford will take years to recover....hell at the end of this contract if it goes through, they'll still be looking for more in 2012!!! Yeah I'll be at any ratification vote...but I'm done giving these clowns any more!!! All of what our retirees, and us over 20 years have fought sooooo hard for, simply cannot be given away at a boardroom table and ever expect to see it again! I will vote NO and Call 'em out.....how bout the rest of us? I'm not naive enough to actually believe that all will be returned to "normal", but it never hurts to ask. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ground control to Charly...... Do you believe in Santa too? Publishing your real name and place of work (if that is indeed true) on an anonynous forum on the internet only confirms my opinion. Even 12 year olds no better than that, junior. By the way you still have not told me why you have gotten so wound up over someone wanting to read the contractual language rather than just highlights previous to voting. Perhaps you could disperse with the attitude and provide your reasons and this thread could get back to something more constructive than name calling and berating of other posters, but if you wish to persist carry on. If I was 12 ........well that's a few years ago, and if you think anything on the web is really anonymous, you are an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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