2010/2011 Ford Focus

[pcsario]

Oh so it's clear now. You can insult my family with a racist term, use us as your toys, etc. but I'm not allowed to "attack" a moderator.

 

Got it, feeling pretty good now, even.

 

BTW, what I said about Nick is true, he said so himself before becoming a mod, we even like to argue every now and then so ditto for you: I'm not putting words in his mouth, and he's free to decide whatever he wants, just don't lie about him wanting me banned, ok? It is true, you're the only mod pushing for my head, I seriously doubt any other mod would've me at the top of their head.

 

BTW, a little history: You specifically tried to discredit me months ago for the "sin" of saying the Fiesta wouldn't cost 10k. All I said was "We're talking about a car launching in 2010, car prices are going up, steel prices are going up yadda yadda... rumors are placing the Fiesta @ 13k and I believe it's a realistic estimate".

 

Your response? Along the lines of

"IGNORE PC AND HIS DIATRIBE, FIESTA WILL BE 11.5K PLUS DESTINATION, TOPS!"

 

And you've acted like that on many other topics, basically minimizing whatever I had to say just because it didn't sit well with you.

 

Well, Ford went from talk to imprementation, and I've all the right to vindicate myself when almost all the things I said would happen, happened. I've admitted my mistakes many times in the past. You've a problem doing the same. In a way I'm not surprised by your sudden urge to "fix" things. Just don't associate it with the board or this "we" self-proclaimed majority.

 

PS.- Keep "getting back" at mhlm for being wrong about diesels, then "getting back" at those who believed in Lutz, then getting mad at me for "attacking" you. I know there's a term for that behavior...

Edited April 5, 2009 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

But you do provide a nice example of how it's only a joke, for instance, you and White99GT have a sense of humor and mess around with me every now and then, or viceversa, you joke, I joke, etc.

I notice you've edited your signature. Still going to claim that you've never insulted anyone?

The only name that's on that list for something not humorous is RJ, when he specifically chose to insult my family with a racist term to try to get at me.

I'm sorry for the comments made at the time. On review, they were out of line.

 

However, your conduct -before- I made those remarks was as atrocious as it has been since, so it doesn't change anything regarding my recommendation that your account be terminated.

[RichardJensen]

I've admitted my mistakes many times in the past. You've a problem doing the same.

 

Just don't associate it with the board or this "we" self-proclaimed majority.

1) Find the most recent example where you've admitted to making a mistake.

 

Here's a hint: Go to google.com and search thusly:

 

site:blueovalforums.com (whatever you want)

 

2) Like I said, take a poll. If you're so certain that the vast and overwhelming majority of people on this board want you here, take a poll.

 

You are tolerated, barely, by this board.

[keoni]

Good grief, can we talk cars or what? I haven't been visiting this site for 10 years to read this stuff. More car, less fighting.

 

PC, I'm really curious about Horbury's fit in the company, popular or not? Also, I am shocked that Mays sides with Kinetic since, in my opinion, he favors the unassuming-look.

[Critic]

Also, I am shocked that Mays sides with Kinetic since, in my opinion, he favors the unassuming-look.

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Kinetic really means.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Critic

[WC-MAN]

Must mean ugly. If the future of cars is they all must look like a suppository for an elephant, I guess I'll be scouring the country for used Panthers the rest of my life.

[Edstock]

Must mean ugly. If the future of cars is they all must look like a suppository for an elephant,

 

A suppository for an elephant — marvellous!

[pcsario]

2) Like I said, take a poll. If you're so certain that the vast and overwhelming majority of people on this board want you here, take a poll.

And like I already said on that:

"Why should I start a poll again? You're the only one complaining about my return.

And --you'll love this-- that's a FACT."

 

With that I'm done on that topic. I haven't done anything that's unusual and sanctioned by you, for others, on this site.

Edited April 5, 2009 by pcsario

[battyr]

Which explains, of course, why they just appointed a guy who has never worked on an FoE car to head North American design............

 

It's nice to know that after all these years, I'm still in your head.

 

From Ford press release.

 

Mays said Callum's global background and successful track record at Ford in the Americas and Europe, as well as at Mazda, position him to lead Ford design in the Americas as the company moves into a new era of global products. In addition to lead responsibility for all Ford cars and trucks designed in North and South America studios, Callum also will guide the design of Lincoln and Mercury products.

 

"Moray's success both at Mazda and in North America provide him with the experience to lead the Americas design team in developing cars and trucks that will build on our design leadership in the American marketplace," Mays said.

 

Callum joined Ford's Ghia studio in Italy in 1988 after assignments at Chrysler and Peugeot-Citroen. There he contributed the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale concept. Moving to Ford's Americas studio in 1995, Callum contributed to a broad range of Ford car and truck designs, including the 1998 Ford Super Duty pickup.

 

In 2001, Callum was appointed to lead Mazda's design organization globally. Highlights of his Mazda tenure included the design of the 2003 Mazda 3, 2005 Mazda MX-5, 2006 Mazda 5, 2007 CX-7 and CX-9, and the 2008 Mazda 6, plus a series of concept vehicles including the Washu, Ibuki, Kabura, and Senku. Since returning to Ford's Americas, Callum has overseen the design of the 2010 Ford Taurus. He also directed the teams that developed the 2010 Mustang, Fusion, and Mercury Milan designs.

 

I really don't see the next Focus would be getting the three bar grill. My bet is for a global Focus that looks much like the Iosis-Max. Very close to the photoshopped image from AutoExpress.

[pcsario]

PC, I'm really curious about Horbury's fit in the company, popular or not? Also, I am shocked that Mays sides with Kinetic since, in my opinion, he favors the unassuming-look.

 

When Mays was at FNA, he had his fans and detractors inside the studio. When he left, for those designers who didn't like him, Horbury was a breath of fresh air, and others disliked him because he wasn't disciplined enough, Freeman Thomas --who along with Martin Smith are disciples of the Audi school of design-- being one of them, according to an AN piece.

 

Once Mulally arrived, his "One Ford" vision clashed with Horbury's plans. I believe Mulally and Co. wanted kinetic all along. Mays simply did what the bosses were hinting him to do. Once Steve Mattin left Volvo, Fields and Mulally found the perfect excuse to get rid of Horbury.

[battyr]

We can call the next Focus the Bubble car, it has the proportions of one. But yeah, it's awfully clear now that Kinetic design will dictate most of the design language in Ford's NA showrooms.

 

I would call the first Taurus a bubble car, but they did a good job to make it look normal. The 1996 Taurus was designed to look like a bubble car and failed. The kinetic design does an incredible job making a bubble car look normal. Most cars in the future will be bubble cars. If Ford can make them look normal, then they win.

[Edstock]

And like I already said on that:

"Why should I start a poll again? You're the only one complaining about my return.

And --you'll love this-- that's a FACT."

The real fact is, RJ is the only one here you've gone after, so why would others object, if they are not targetted? Your signature was spattered with opprobrium directed at him, created especially for your current posts, which clearly shows the attitude of premeditated hostility — you came back looking for a fight. Your attempt at offended innocence is clumsy and transparent.

[battyr]

It looks nice, but I don't like the move to ultra-short hoods, and i think the rear hatch by the Ford emblem is a bit awkward looking. I do understand, though, that it's a rendering, so I'm not putting too much into it.

 

I assume you are thinking of the Iosis-max which is what this rendering was based on. It replaces the C-Max. Looking at the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and many of the European cars, I would say that a short hood is the coming trend.

 

As for the Focus, I expect it to look like a Fiesta but with a longer hood. I would think that it would look very good.

 

My question is what will the next Fusion and Taurus would look like. People won't want such a short hood on a more expensive car.

Edited April 5, 2009 by battyr

[battyr]

Went on a long trip late last year to Turkey, Egypt, and Greece. Saw Transit Connects everywhere.

 

...

 

Just look at all the love the Taurus is getting due to its FOE-inspired looks. FNA will use kinetic design. 'Nuff said. :shades:

 

The love for the next Taurus is from lowering the roof 3 inches to give it the proportions of a Crown Vic instead of the proportions of a Focus.

[battyr]

You know, Cesar, your first post here in months was a duplicate thread that was written to pick a fight.

 

I'm polling the other moderators regarding your future here. Having banned P71 (just like AutoBlog), I see no reason to allow you to continue posting here.

 

So what did the other moderators say????

[battyr]

Good grief, can we talk cars or what? I haven't been visiting this site for 10 years to read this stuff. More car, less fighting.

 

PC, I'm really curious about Horbury's fit in the company, popular or not? Also, I am shocked that Mays sides with Kinetic since, in my opinion, he favors the unassuming-look.

 

Ford has 3 head designers. Europe, America, and Everything. Under "One Ford" they only need one. Since Europe is a better fit for most of the cars around the world, that leave Horbury at the bottom of the list. Personally I like Horbury. I think they should have gotten ride of J. May, make Martin Smith Head of design world wide and make Horbury Second.

 

I heard an interview with Horbury a year ago from the Detroit Auto Show. Looking at his body laguage and what he said, it looked like he was being put under a lot of pressure and was not allowed to say too much.

[battyr]

I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Kinetic really means.

 

Ford says that it a way to make a car look like it is moving when it is parked.

 

To me, it a a number of styling tricks to make a tall car not look so tall. Make a short hood not look so short. Make a bubble car look less bubble looking and more wedge shaped.

[battyr]

Good grief, can we talk cars or what? I haven't been visiting this site for 10 years to read this stuff. More car, less fighting.

 

PC, I'm really curious about Horbury's fit in the company, popular or not? Also, I am shocked that Mays sides with Kinetic since, in my opinion, he favors the unassuming-look.

 

Isn't it the moderators job to keep things on topic?

[RichardJensen]

So what did the other moderators say????

They take the weekend off.

[pcsario]

So what did the other moderators say????

 

I can already imagine the exchange:

 

RJ: "Sir, there's this guy that's really annoying to "all of us". We need to get rid of him, RIGHT NICK?"

 

Nick: "(awkward moment) Do I really need to have an stance on this?"

 

RJ: "Yes, you DO support me, right?"

 

Nick: "It's really not about that...."

 

RJ: "Nick, if you're not with me, then you're against me."

 

Nick: "(WTF?) Uh yeah, whatever dude."

 

RJ: "Sir, see, the concensus is there! Just give me your blessing to go ahead, you gotta TRUST ME on this! He's bad for BON! *Insert heavily one sided story here*"

 

Robert or someone else: "Ok, do what you feel is right and stop bugging me. If he has commited these grave, unique sins that none of your friends do, then go ahead and cast the stone. Please give me his username..."

 

 

RJ to board: "The mods were all in agreement folks! Told you so! Huzzah!" </thread> :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Trust me, life goes on and I really don't care.

 

If this thing was really about winning or losing, then I've already won no matter what he does.

 

He'll be reminded of that over and over again until the "One Ford" lifecycle is complete, so yeah, some "victory" he'll be having.

[RichardJensen]

From Ford press release.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=23426

 

Callum's European experience was a stint for Ghia (back when they were more than an obscure trim on British Fords): http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=23426

After six years, he joined Ghia Spain as a consultant designer. His work included the Ghia Via concept vehicle in 1989, leading Ghia’s design consultancy to Jaguar, and the Aston Martin Lagonda Vignale concept.

Ghia Via

http://www.carstyling.ru/cars.1989_Ford_Via.html

Lagonda Vignale

http://www.astonmartins.com/vanquish/lagonda_vignale.htm

[RichardJensen]

Under "One Ford" they only need one. Since Europe is a better fit for most of the cars around the world...

The assumption inherent in this is that Ford should have globally designed vehicles.

 

No other car manufacturer does that with any success in the mainstream US market.

 

Please allow me to repeat myself for emphasis

 

No other car manufacturer does that with any success in the mainstream US market.

 

The NA market is large enough to profitably cover the costs of significant differences in sheetmetal--not different headlight clusters and grille inserts, and therefore should GET different sheetmetal.

 

Yes, the Focus & Fiesta should be dang near identical in Europe and the US; however as the price moves up from there, the differences should be justifiably more pronounced.

 

Companies that succeed DO differentiate their products between the US & ROW (Honda, Toyota). Companies that FAIL do not (VW: which has, if my memory and math are correct, has lost more money per car in the US than Ford, over the last five or six years.)

[Critic]

Ghia Via

http://www.carstyling.ru/cars.1989_Ford_Via.html

Lagonda Vignale

http://www.astonmartins.com/vanquish/lagonda_vignale.htm

.

 

Whoa. I just learned a lot....

 

And who amongst us wouldn't like to be able to drag just one of these out of that field and paint it up?

 

http://www.astonmartins.com/vanquish/vanquish_prototypes.htm

Edited April 5, 2009 by Critic

[rmc523]

While I don't really wanna get involved in the matter (although I just did....), I feel I should at least say this:

 

Pcsario, while I certainly believe (and have at times seen) you can be a great poster who contributes positively to all sorts of threads (also evidenced by your 7 year membership), your return and your subsequent posts have not shown that you don't seem to be willing to do that anymore.

 

While you're surely entitled to have arguments with other board members, including RJ, the way you've gone about it now isn't exactly exemplary.....there's no need to pick out one person and go after them. (I know what you're thinking....this thought will continue below).

 

It's one thing to say, "hey, it seems the prediction you made a while back of the Fiesta being priced at $11.5K may be wrong, RJ."

But doing this....

 

Next on the list of RJ's failed predictions:

Fiesta launching @ 11.5k plus destination, "tops".

 

....is not the best way to return (or post), IMO, and also seems like a personal attack, whether intentional or not.

 

To continue the above though, should the whole mhlm/mlhm situation have been handled like it was? Maybe, maybe not, but it is what it is, that's the past. Again, it's not necessary to pick out people and go after them individually like you have so far done (or seem to have done if that was not your intent).

 

-----

 

Back to 2010/2011 Focus (hopefully)...

Edited April 5, 2009 by rmc523

[Versa-Tech]

Back to 2010/2011 Focus (hopefully)...

Word^^^

 

Am I the only who thinks that AE's rendering looked like a Toyota?