How stupid is the UAW going to look

[condor]

If Obama lets GM and Chrysler go into bankruptsy after the UAW backed the shit out of him in the election? I'm hoping the 06/01 deadline is a scare tactic. All those people that supported him are going to look like idiots if he throws them under the bus.

Edited April 14, 2009 by condor

[megirldeth]

I voted for Obama and I didn't agree with him getting rrid of wagoner....all polititions suck all we tried to do is pick the lesser of the evils....do you think Mc Cain would have been better?

[lovelincolns]

I voted for Obama and I didn't agree with him getting rrid of wagoner....all polititions suck all we tried to do is pick the lesser of the evils....do you think Mc Cain would have been better?

If Obama forces GM into bankruptcy, McCain would have been no worse.

[Die Wahrheit]

If Obama forces GM into bankruptcy, McCain would have been no worse.

 

 

Look at the big picture, The government is not going to force GM into bankruptcy their going to put themselves in there because they can't turn this thing around. What would you suggest? keep pumping billions of dollars into these companies to try an keep them a float even thou the turn around plan isn't working. WAKE UP PEOPLE! The government has been prolonging this since last year and these companies still hasn't got it together. You don't think the government is taking a risk by loaning these companies money or what they have to get paid back also. Over 80% of the country doesn't care if GM fails or not. So that just let you know that we the union is fighting on our own. GM already stated if they cannot get more concessions from the UAW, shareholders and the dealers than they will go into bankruptcy. So it will now be the President forcing them into it, it will be the only card left they have to play.

[Chiefs84]

At least McCain said they just go into backruptcy, and didn't lie about any of it.

[macattack]

If there is a union rep.on this blog tell us what happens to the GM/CHRYS. retirees and their pensions/benefits........are you going to protect them like the good union you pretend to be?

[udontkno]

GM and Chysler has not even reached a deal with UAW about concessions............I don't think GM and Chysler are trying very hard cause they know if they go into bankruptcy that they will come out better cause then they can really overhaul the UAW contract to include wage cuts and hourly pays for insurance!!! Thats what GM and Chysler really want,to get rid of UAW..

[/quote

GM and Chrysler are playing with fire if they think they are going to waltz in bankruptcy and come out smelling like roses. A little data revels that of the 130 airlines that have gone into bankruptcy only 8 were successful. The overall success rate of all companies that have gone into Chapter 11 and reorganized is approx. 16%.

The way I see it is if GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy, they will probably get a judge to throw out all contracts. This can happen in as little as 14 days with the union allowing to request an additional 7 days, in 21 days the judge will rule to either throw out the contract or not. If the contract is thrown out the workers will become work at will workers with no representation until/if the company comes out of bankruptcy at which time the union will be negotating as if it was the first contract. The problem with this is the workers will feel screwed and attendance, quality, workmanship and overall employee moral will fall thus pushing these companies into a tougher situation then they are currently facing. Ford will be left with a few supplier issues but no more then any other U.S. auto manufacturer and in the long run Ford may sell more vehicles and make more profit. Although no American company the size of GM or Chrysler has gone bankrupt so this could be interesting. I will follow every aspect and hopefully one day I will author a book on the U.S. auto industry.

[MTP'er]

The big question is........if GM & Chrysler get a better deal by going into bankruptcy than Ford got by not going that route are "we" going to have to take even more concessions to be @ par with GM & Chrysler? :reading:

[whereswaldo]

lol...the issue of a pre-packaged bankruptcy, which was discussed at the beginning during his campaign and a flat-out chapter 11 is completely different.

Exactly. There is a big diff between a C11 and a prepackaged bankruptcy.

[whereswaldo]

HELL YES!!! Those concessions we gave up were to help FORD now til GM and Chysler get better concessions from the UAW..Once they get better concessions we give again.....we keep giving til Toyota pays its workers more than we do....The government will be happy then.........

Last yr Toyo paid better than we did. And Ford will still have to have a vote on further concessions. If ya'll are that stupid to vote yes on giving more without the Ford family having to give it all up, than stupid is as stupid does..........

[lovelincolns]

Last yr Toyo paid better than we did. And Ford will still have to have a vote on further concessions. If ya'll are that stupid to vote yes on giving more without the Ford family having to give it all up, than stupid is as stupid does..........

Exactly. In some instances Toyota workers were making more than UAW workers before the concessions. Now making less isn't even enough. Where will it stop if a stand isn't taken?

[fordworker]

Obama is doing the best he can. GM has cost that are unsustainable. Sorry its the truth.

If McCain had won GM would be out of business by summer as McCain would not have given GM any $$ to come out of bankruptcy and Obama will. Theres a big difference there. And Obama wants to save the retiree insurance plan and McCain does not.

Whatever happens happens we cant control it now its out of our hands.

[fordworker]

Look at the big picture, The government is not going to force GM into bankruptcy their going to put themselves in there because they can't turn this thing around. What would you suggest? keep pumping billions of dollars into these companies to try an keep them a float even thou the turn around plan isn't working. WAKE UP PEOPLE! The government has been prolonging this since last year and these companies still hasn't got it together. You don't think the government is taking a risk by loaning these companies money or what they have to get paid back also. Over 80% of the country doesn't care if GM fails or not. So that just let you know that we the union is fighting on our own. GM already stated if they cannot get more concessions from the UAW, shareholders and the dealers than they will go into bankruptcy. So it will now be the President forcing them into it, it will be the only card left they have to play.

your correct.. some people cant face reality.......

[Die Wahrheit]

The big question is........if GM & Chrysler get a better deal by going into bankruptcy than Ford got by not going that route are "we" going to have to take even more concessions to be @ par with GM & Chrysler? :reading:

 

If GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy and lets say the judge order the workers to take pay cuts and what ever else he decides to take to make the companies profitable again. Do you really think that Ford fairly compete with GM and Chrylser if they are paying there employees less then what Ford is. NO! So that means Ford will get similar concessions that GM and Chrylser get without having to go into bankruptcy. The Fords will make out like a fat rat.

[fordworker]

If GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy and lets say the judge order the workers to take pay cuts and what ever else he decides to take to make the companies profitable again. Do you really think that Ford fairly compete with GM and Chrylser if they are paying there employees less then what Ford is. NO! So that means Ford will get similar concessions that GM and Chrylser get without having to go into bankruptcy. The Fords will make out like a fat rat.

But as someone else posted there is NO guarantee GM or Chrysler comes out of bankruptcy with there 33% market share! more like 15% and Ford will pick up a quick 5% in a month and another 5% by years end. As lonf as Ford stays out of court they will gain market share. Which is better for us FORD workers.

[soupy]

Last yr Toyo paid better than we did. And Ford will still have to have a vote on further concessions. If ya'll are that stupid to vote yes on giving more without the Ford family having to give it all up, than stupid is as stupid does..........

 

In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

 

 

Now do suppose that 8,000.00 bonous made toyo pay better than our base pay? Sure did.

Don't cherry-pick your facts to prove your propaganda bull-shit agenda of accusing ya'll of us to be stupid!

[Die Wahrheit]

But as someone else posted there is NO guarantee GM or Chrysler comes out of bankruptcy with there 33% market share! more like 15% and Ford will pick up a quick 5% in a month and another 5% by years end. As lonf as Ford stays out of court they will gain market share. Which is better for us FORD workers.

 

 

They will emerge from bankruptcy and become profitable again. Although they will now be the same company. Much smaller and leaner. And yes Ford will gain market share and will become very profitable while paying its employees less. So make no mistake Ford want and will get the same concessions. This writing has been on the wall for a long time. And now they have the perfect opportunity to go for the UAW throats and the union doesn't have a leg to stand on. Because you cannot call a strike in a time like this.

[jm2607]

They will emerge from bankruptcy and become profitable again. Although they will now be the same company. Much smaller and leaner. And yes Ford will gain market share and will become very profitable while paying its employees less. So make no mistake Ford want and will get the same concessions. This writing has been on the wall for a long time. And now they have the perfect opportunity to go for the UAW throats and the union doesn't have a leg to stand on. Because you cannot call a strike in a time like this.

Fear mongering. Thats all you've done since you joined this site. Just stop. No one even knows what the concessions will be.

[Die Wahrheit]

Fear mongering. Thats all you've done since you joined this site. Just stop. No one even knows what the concessions will be.

 

There is iron in the words I speak. Im giving a scenerio here. If your that scared than you need to be in church. Its all reality from this point on. There is no fear mongering going on here. Get your house in order because if its not by now than you probably have a reason to be scared.

[udontkno]

They will emerge from bankruptcy and become profitable again. Although they will now be the same company. Much smaller and leaner. And yes Ford will gain market share and will become very profitable while paying its employees less. So make no mistake Ford want and will get the same concessions. This writing has been on the wall for a long time. And now they have the perfect opportunity to go for the UAW throats and the union doesn't have a leg to stand on. Because you cannot call a strike in a time like this.

Show me where we can not call a strike??? As far as I am concerned if we the workers are not being treated fair then we have a right to stage a sit-in, strike, protest or what ever you want to call it. If all the workers at GM decided they were going to go outside of their workplace and picket and prevent anyone from going into the workplace to replace them what will GM do? Sure they can call the police and the national guard to arrest them but that could backfire and create sympathy for the workers. Any case GM will be in the hole forever if they are not able to produce quality products efficiently. Now the question is will workers demand a fair slice of the pie or accept the crumbs given to them???

[udontkno]

If GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy and lets say the judge order the workers to take pay cuts and what ever else he decides to take to make the companies profitable again. Do you really think that Ford fairly compete with GM and Chrylser if they are paying there employees less then what Ford is. NO! So that means Ford will get similar concessions that GM and Chrylser get without having to go into bankruptcy. The Fords will make out like a fat rat.

A judge will not order for parts of a contract to be null and void, all a judge will do is either throw out the whole contract or not. At this point workers become work at will workers and have to accept the pay and benefit package offered by the company or not work. There is no negotiating at this point.

 

I say if the package is unreasonable the workers should create as much civil unrest as possible and force the companies and the govt to step up and create better terms. I believe that enough civil unrest from the public could force the govt to change the BS trade agreements this would require more companies to move production into the US or face huge tariffs essentially making their vehicles and parts overpriced and unsaleable. GM, Ford and Chrysler do not want this to happen because they build a large portion of their parts outside of the US. These compaines could care less about its workers they are in it for profit.

[Die Wahrheit]

Show me where we can not call a strike??? As far as I am concerned if we the workers are not being treated fair then we have a right to stage a sit-in, strike, protest or what ever you want to call it. If all the workers at GM decided they were going to go outside of their workplace and picket and prevent anyone from going into the workplace to replace them what will GM do? Sure they can call the police and the national guard to arrest them but that could backfire and create sympathy for the workers. Any case GM will be in the hole forever if they are not able to produce quality products efficiently. Now the question is will workers demand a fair slice of the pie or accept the crumbs given to them???

 

Im not sayn that you can't. What im saying is at times like this when bankruptcy is looming a strike is out of the question. In bankruptcy the judge holds all the cards.

[Die Wahrheit]

A judge will not order for parts of a contract to be null and void, all a judge will do is either throw out the whole contract or not. At this point workers become work at will workers and have to accept the pay and benefit package offered by the company or not work. There is no negotiating at this point.

 

I say if the package is unreasonable the workers should create as much civil unrest as possible and force the companies and the govt to step up and create better terms. I believe that enough civil unrest from the public could force the govt to change the BS trade agreements this would require more companies to move production into the US or face huge tariffs essentially making their vehicles and parts overpriced and unsaleable. GM, Ford and Chrysler do not want this to happen because they build a large portion of their parts outside of the US. These compaines could care less about its workers they are in it for profit.

 

Agreed. we don't have a contract anyhow. we been working with an open one sinced we passd the last one or was it last two.

[condor]

The UAW didn't have to back anyone. They threw everything behind this fool and now they are about to get fucked by the guy. The biggest losers in this will be the rank and file, the people he said he was for. Don't give me this throwing money away. Compared to the banks the auto companies have gotten a pittance. When a judge is involved and guys are making 5 dollars less an hour see what kind of a housing crisis we have, all on the back of the "annointed" one. Don't you remember him saying GM "was too big to fail?" Well I guess its not and he's about to throw a shitload of people under the bus. Fucking piece of shit took our money and support and now he's shoving it up our ass.

[fordguy61mi]

If GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy and lets say the judge order the workers to take pay cuts and what ever else he decides to take to make the companies profitable again. Do you really think that Ford fairly compete with GM and Chrylser if they are paying there employees less then what Ford is. NO! So that means Ford will get similar concessions that GM and Chrylser get without having to go into bankruptcy. The Fords will make out like a fat rat.

 

Wait a minute, didn't the government make a BIG deal out of us not being on par with the foreign companies wages and benefits? That's why we had to take concessions in the modification of the contract, right? Well that should work both ways, shouldn't it? If GM gets major wage concessions from the UAW in a bankruptcy, then the transplants will have to lower their wages and benefits so we're all competitive like they wanted us to do, right? WRONG. It's only when WE'RE ahead that they pull that shit. The transplants wages won't be touched if we're all making $14 an hour, you can bet on that.