STAP TURNS DOWN CONCESSIONS!

[Jaah]

:yup: :yup: :yup:

 

We need a pattern of our own.

 

True, with the similarities between the former Big 3 becoming fewer and fewer pattern bargaining does not look possible at least for the near future. It served us well in the past but its time may have come and we need to look past it. Time to hold Ford to a higher standard that the others can strive to match and possibly once again sometime down the road all auto workers will be covered by similar agreements.

[Peanut]

I don't have the answers, only my opinion. My opinion is that Ford isn't going to piss off the UAW by putting brand new product in STAP when part of their bloodletting was getting all the new commitments to new product.

 

Like I said previously, our May contract gave them back a week of vacation per year, benefit copays and cuts, frozen wages and suspended COLA. And on top of that, at contract time the currency exchange was par and now it's down 22%. No not only did we give them concessions to weather "the perfect storm", they got a 22% bonus.

 

They hadn't even begun to reap the dollar benefits of what we gave them, and the Union wants to give them more? If I was truly convinced it would save your jobs I'd consider it. Sorry, I don't think it's in the cards.That's my opinion; and I'm sorry if it's not what you'd like to hear but it isn't my job to blow sunshine up your ass.

 

So from where I'm standing, if Ford is not operating under the premise of getting government money then we should stick to our guns and make them ride out the contract we ratified. In my 20 years at Ford (and I started working for this company in Windsor and went through a plant closure and had to relocate here back in '92) we never once opened up the contract mid-stream and asked for more money when Ford was raking in BILLIONS in profit (damn, I remember when there was talk of overtaking GM as the number one automaker). The CAW doesn't have to be militant about it, just grow some stones and point to the contract that Ford signed that the ink is still wet on.

 

 

I agree. Well said.

[GuyfromSTAP]

I don't have the answers, only my opinion. My opinion is that Ford isn't going to piss off the UAW by putting brand new product in STAP when part of their bloodletting was getting all the new commitments to new product.

 

Like I said previously, our May contract gave them back a week of vacation per year, benefit copays and cuts, frozen wages and suspended COLA. And on top of that, at contract time the currency exchange was par and now it's down 22%. No not only did we give them concessions to weather "the perfect storm", they got a 22% bonus.

 

They hadn't even begun to reap the dollar benefits of what we gave them, and the Union wants to give them more? If I was truly convinced it would save your jobs I'd consider it. Sorry, I don't think it's in the cards.That's my opinion; and I'm sorry if it's not what you'd like to hear but it isn't my job to blow sunshine up your ass.

 

So from where I'm standing, if Ford is not operating under the premise of getting government money then we should stick to our guns and make them ride out the contract we ratified. In my 20 years at Ford (and I started working for this company in Windsor and went through a plant closure and had to relocate here back in '92) we never once opened up the contract mid-stream and asked for more money when Ford was raking in BILLIONS in profit (damn, I remember when there was talk of overtaking GM as the number one automaker). The CAW doesn't have to be militant about it, just grow some stones and point to the contract that Ford signed that the ink is still wet on.

 

Post of the year...Very well done!

[rt2525]

:yup: :yup: :yup:

 

We need a pattern of our own.

Exactly my point-Ed doesn't seem to agree tho.

[Jaah]

I see in another thread that the UAW in its negotiations with Chrysler has given up the right to strike until sometime around 2017. Does anyone other than me see this as a total capitulation by the union and one of the darkess days in union history.

[OAC_Paint]

I've had a change of heart. I'll give Ford their concessions.....As soon as they give the CAW 55% of Ford. A pattern is a pattern is a pattern. Let's open up this contract Ford.

[charly]

I see in another thread that the UAW in its negotiations with Chrysler has given up the right to strike until sometime around 2017. Does anyone other than me see this as a total capitulation by the union and one of the darkess days in union history.

 

We (CAW) do not have the right to strike, we can only strike when we actually do not have a contract, while the C'ontract" is in effect we have a "no strike,no lockout" clause in the agreement

[Jaah]

We (CAW) do not have the right to strike, we can only strike when we actually do not have a contract, while the C'ontract" is in effect we have a "no strike,no lockout" clause in the agreement

 

True, and also true for UAW or at least it was. The way I read it is they gave up their right to strike at the end of their contract.

[young buck 1520]

Thanks Sparky for your opinion and honesty. In different times I would entirely agree with you. Unfortunately STAP has the the proverbial axe hanging over its head and if we can wrangle some kind of committment for a new product it would be worth some concessions to us at STAP. If not then I will NOT support ANY concessions. I hope you can understand our position even if you dissagree.

 

 

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

[Jaah]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

 

 

Don't hold back now, tell us what you really think..

 

Some good points just the same.

[OACville]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

 

You comments swayed my vote. I'll leave it at that.

[gocash]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

Let's be careful not to give Whitey MacDonald too much undeserved credit.Oakville members should not have to endure your rant either. They voted NO last year,it was our Local that chose to support the "live to fight another day" motto that our National Union endorses.The leadership at Oakville supports concessions so we need Oakville rank and file members to stand against their own leadership.Hopefully they will,for our sake. Jealousy of the investment in Oakville becoming a flex plant will get us nowhere.We did stand united in order for Oakville to get that investment from Ford,that is really all that needs to be said about it.If they vote like they did last May,we will have no worries except for the sheep at STAP that will follow the "live to fight another day again" motto,that our National Union will likely present to us at ratification time.I understand your frustration YoungBuck, but it would be of better use to direct it at CAW National,not the Oakville rank and file members.

Edited May 2, 2009 by gocash

[allford1]

No matter what STAP will need Oakville, now more than ever. STAP is like the Knight guarding the bridge in Montey Python, bouncing around losing limbs but WON"T GIVE UP. LIVING TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.....NOW IS THE TIME!!!!!your running out of limbs.

[Topgun]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

Re fresh my memory ,how did Whitey put the Edge in Oakville?

[Hosh]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

Hey young dumbass, saying your plant can build better vehicles than other plants is childish. Your just scared. You probably have no seniority, so go find another job.

[charly]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

 

 

Nice solidarity, it's comforting that we are a united force.

As far as awards go......take em to Walmart, we have ALL won awards, and the been kicked to the side of the road.

 

BTW Ford put the Edge in OAC....if you really believe ANY UNION Rep had a deciding vote in where ANY car goes you need to pop some reality into your drug cocktail.

 

 

 

Have a great day,

Edited May 3, 2009 by charly

[Jaah]

Everyone, take a long pause and a deep breath. This is a high stakes game between the company and union not Oakville and St. Thomas, which side your on has already been determined, you just need to decide if your a player or a spectator.

[allford1]

It wasn't that long ago that local 1520 was the CAW ! and the only reason that Oakville is building the Edge is because guys like Whitey Mcdonald put it there.

 

If STAP was in as much trouble as Oakville was then... the edge would be in St. Thomas now!!!

 

Oakville voted go fuck yourself in the last ratification which shows there true colors and solidarity, so who gives a shit if he agrees or understands.

 

From what I am hearing we at St. Thomas will be voting no if there is no new product for us. I believe that is also the opinion of our leadership.

 

Besides if the Edge and Flex was built here, It would be a much better built vehicle.

Maybe the powers that be should consider that. We could move everything here over the summer and build it here.

 

Our tooling is held together with band-aids and shoe string and I believe we just won the presidents award for quality.

 

So I wouldn't bark too loud over there. You may draw unwanted attention to your-selves

And whitey BALED for chrico national.....WTF>>>>you NEED Oakville no if ands or buts.....they voted no last time STAP voted to FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.... move on and think of NOW!!!!!one person doesn't have that kind of power or Chrico would not be chap11...STAP NEEDS OAKVILLE END OF STORY!!!!!!!

[Jaah]

And whitey BALED for chrico national.....WTF>>>>you NEED Oakville no if ands or buts.....they voted no last time STAP voted to FIGHT ANOTHER DAY.... move on and think of NOW!!!!!one person doesn't have that kind of power or Chrico would not be chap11...STAP NEEDS OAKVILLE END OF STORY!!!!!!!

 

We do need Oakville and maybe sometime down the road if STAP is still around you may need us again. Trading shots between us will not help anyone but the company. If everyone would focus on the real issues (concessions and survival) I am hopeful we will all do what is best for all concerned. We all vote based on the knowledge we have at the time which this forum will provide a very small part of. How you vote will be known only to you and coercion will not be a deciding factor. Name calling, verbal abuse and bullying will not change anyones vote.

 

While I quoted you at the beginning allford1, this was not directed at you.

[allford1]

We do need Oakville and maybe sometime down the road if STAP is still around you may need us again. Trading shots between us will not help anyone but the company. If everyone would focus on the real issues (concessions and survival) I am hopeful we will all do what is best for all concerned. We all vote based on the knowledge we have at the time which this forum will provide a very small part of. How you vote will be known only to you and coercion will not be a deciding factor. Name calling, verbal abuse and bullying will not change anyones vote.

 

While I quoted you at the beginning allford1, this was not directed at you.

Understood Jaah.. The time to stand together is now..STAP needs answers and a united front NOW!

[sharmuta44]

Understood Jaah.. The time to stand together is now..STAP needs answers and a united front NOW!

I agree and so should everyone at STAP and OAC plus our brothers and sisters in Windsor. Ive heard from someone who was at the last Ford/ CAW meeting , that Scott Smith was very impressive as he stood up during the meeting and basically told Lewenza and his puppets to shove it, if they expected him to come back to the membership @ 1520 and ask for concessions for what I guarentee they are going to try and sell us - a one more year extension take it our leave it proposel.

This is all bullshit from our national- if the shoe were on the ohter foot and the company was doing well, do you think the union could go to them and say we need to open the contract and get more for the membership, no fucking way, would that happen. Opening the contract 3 times in less than a year is just not right.

 

STAP members although I have had my own problems with Scott Smith, I will put them aside for what I believe is in our plants best interest and tell all members that we must get him re-elected, for our future's sake.

[gocash]

I agree and so should everyone at STAP and OAC plus our brothers and sisters in Windsor. Ive heard from someone who was at the last Ford/ CAW meeting , that Scott Smith was very impressive as he stood up during the meeting and basically told Lewenza and his puppets to shove it, if they expected him to come back to the membership @ 1520 and ask for concessions for what I guarentee they are going to try and sell us - a one more year extension take it our leave it proposel.

This is all bullshit from our national- if the shoe were on the ohter foot and the company was doing well, do you think the union could go to them and say we need to open the contract and get more for the membership, no fucking way, would that happen. Opening the contract 3 times in less than a year is just not right.

 

STAP members although I have had my own problems with Scott Smith, I will put them aside for what I believe is in our plants best interest and tell all members that we must get him re-elected, for our future's sake.

I hope and pray that Scott told CAW National to shove it.We deserve to know what Ford's intentions are,period."Live to fight another day" has gotten old.If we are doomed for closure in the future then we need/deserve to know now,so we can fully prepare ourselves for our own future.When times are booming for Ford we don't go asking for more money.This cat and mouse game has got to end,one way or the other.If Lewenza wants STAP 1520 to give concessions,he should be removed from his position.He is not a true leader,in my opinion. Scott and Dennis keep up the fight,WE are behind you,even if it means our plant will close.When Ford decides to bargain in GOOD FAITH someday,maybe then we will look at what we need to do to get secured commitment from them.We have until 2011 to get something done,let's not sell ourselves short again.We need to stand united CAW 1520 members,WE NEED TO MAKE FORD HONOUR OUR CURRENT CONTRACT until 2011.

[iluvnascar]

I hope and pray that Scott told CAW National to shove it.We deserve to know what Ford's intentions are,period."Live to fight another day" has gotten old.If we are doomed for closure in the future then we need/deserve to know now,so we can fully prepare ourselves for our own future.When times are booming for Ford we don't go asking for more money.This cat and mouse game has got to end,one way or the other.If Lewenza wants STAP 1520 to give concessions,he should be removed from his position.He is not a true leader,in my opinion. Scott and Dennis keep up the fight,WE are behind you,even if it means our plant will close.When Ford decides to bargain in GOOD FAITH someday,maybe then we will look at what we need to do to get secured commitment from them.We have until 2011 to get something done,let's not sell ourselves short again.We need to stand united CAW 1520 members,WE NEED TO MAKE FORD HONOUR OUR CURRENT CONTRACT until 2011.

 

Why doesn't the CAW (both the National as well as the St. Thomas local) develop a proposal to Ford? A proposal designed to save Ford a lot of money; and designed to significantly extend the life of the CV/GM without major investment in tooling and facilities. Special workrules for skilled trades during facility modification and installation; Government grants to help with development and tooling costs (get that wallflower Joe Preston on board....he isn't doing anything else; and get the Ontario Government involved as well); and a marketing campaign with all the State and Provincial Governments asking for future orders and marketing incentives if they will commit to future purchases.

 

Show Ford that there is an interest in helping.....as well as an interest in preserving jobs

[allford1]

Why doesn't the CAW (both the National as well as the St. Thomas local) develop a proposal to Ford? A proposal designed to save Ford a lot of money; and designed to significantly extend the life of the CV/GM without major investment in tooling and facilities. Special workrules for skilled trades during facility modification and installation; Government grants to help with development and tooling costs (get that wallflower Joe Preston on board....he isn't doing anything else; and get the Ontario Government involved as well); and a marketing campaign with all the State and Provincial Governments asking for future orders and marketing incentives if they will commit to future purchases.

 

Show Ford that there is an interest in helping.....as well as an interest in preserving jobs

Our great and powerful leaders in both fed and prov. have told the CAW to open up contract talks AGAIN with GM so they will pretty much match what cryco got. So looking for help from them would be pointless unless you want a wage and benefit cuts etc. Joe Preston doesn't give a shit he is only out for that BIG FED. PENTION. As far as national, I think STAP was a sacrifice for the Oakville revamp...time will tell. Like what was said before, 'LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY' is getting old. Lets shit or get off the pot. STAP has nothing to lose, OAKVILLE, STAP, WINDSOR stand firm.

[mrballsonya]

I really apologize if someone already said this, but I just couldn't bear to read through 4 pages of meaningless rhetoric........ It really doesn't matter how you vote, your vote is absolutely meaningless.

 

Ford is in survival mode right now. Ford is currently behaving like a wild animal, they'll do whatever they can to survive this mess.

 

I hate to be such an asshole, but you're giving the CAW democratic process way too much credit. If Ford wants to shut down STAP, they will. Your CAW vote, is absolutely irrelevant.

 

So vote which ever way you think best, but please know that your votes are being cast on a pieces of toilet paper that are ready to be flushed.

 

I know I sound like a total Company Yes man, but If you think your votes are meaningful, then you really need to start paying attention to whats been going on lately.

Edited May 11, 2009 by mrballsonya