US Hybrid Sales Down 45.5% in April

[Pioneer]

Couple of more years, that may be all that you are able to buy.

[NickF1011]

HYBRID Prius Sales are heading

 

d

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

o

w

n

 

OUT OF CONTROL

 

21,000 down to 8000

 

And the second gas prices go up again significantly, they'll go right back up. It's a fickle segment, but it's certainly not disappearing anytime soon.

[630land]

Average people are expecting magic SUV's that get 40 mpg to appear, and are waiting. The myth 'carmakers have the high MPG technology locked away somewhere; the oil companies pay them to do that' is still believed.

[nelsonlu]

Average people are expecting magic SUV's that get 40 mpg to appear, and are waiting. The myth 'carmakers have the high MPG technology locked away somewhere; the oil companies pay them to do that' is still believed.

 

Given that the Escape Hybrid currently gets 33 MPG overall with a slightly older design than the Fusion Hybrid, it's not that unbelievable that in a year or two that the next refresh of the Escape Hybrid -- certainly not that large for a SUV but nor is it really small -- will reach 40 MPG. No magic required.

Edited May 23, 2009 by nelsonlu

[Ford Jellymoulds]

You have to pay a large amount of cash upfront and drive hybrids 200,000 miles or keep them 20 years just to break even to make up the difference between the cost of it and a regular non-hybrid of the same type. Hybrids are brave effort, but it only serves to prove that before promised Government grants are taken into account, hybrid cars still have a long way to go.

 

With cheap gasoline in the US and half the price diesels cars that get better MPG in Europe they still are go find it hard for find buyers willing to waste the extra money on buying them, $147 oil like we had last year might force folk into them in the US but folk will flock to diesel cars in Europe and Ford/Peugeot make the best diesel engines in the world that are second to none so they will benefit the most..

Edited May 23, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[jpd80]

You have to pay a large amount of cash upfront and drive hybrids 200,000 miles or keep them 20 years just to break even to make up the difference between the cost of it and a regular non-hybrid of the same type.

That's not true,

New York cab drivers claim that they recouped the extra cost of

the hybrids inside 12 months, after that the rest is all cream.

 

Also hybrids have a much higher resale value so you don't

have to recoup all of the technology costs.

 

I have several hybrid owners that live near me and all are happy with their purchases.

Edited May 23, 2009 by jpd80

[Ford Jellymoulds]

That's not true,

New York cab drivers claim that they recouped the extra cost of

the hybrids inside 12 months, after that the rest is all cream.

 

Also hybrids have a much higher resale value so you don't

have to recoup all of the technology costs.

 

I have several hybrid owners that live near me and all are happy with their purchases.

 

I basing it on what the average person drives in the UK in a year- not everybody drives a taxi here JPD, even though l run the daughter around a lot l a feel a bit like a taxi driver most of the time.

 

Prius cost £21,210 ($33,763) new loses £12504 ($20,000) in its first four years in the UK, you could by yourself a Fiesta Econetic that is more roomier and returns better MPG with such a huge loss a Prius generates. How much long will those batteries last and how much will they cost to replace? Fiesta's bomb proof econetic diesel engine will last twice as long as well so you are getting two cars not one short lifed expensive Prius.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[nelsonlu]

You have to pay a large amount of cash upfront and drive hybrids 200,000 miles or keep them 20 years just to break even to make up the difference between the cost of it and a regular non-hybrid of the same type. Hybrids are brave effort, but it only serves to prove that before promised Government grants are taken into account, hybrid cars still have a long way to go.

 

I am not sure that where you get the 20 years form. Let's assume a driver who drives 15,000 miles per year. Based on EPA's numbers, that driver will burn 385 gallons of gas driving the Fusion Hybrid and 600 driving the 4-cylinder Fusion SEL. Assuming even $2.5/gallon gas (and I don't expect the price to stay that low) the gas savings per year is $538. Given that the price differential between similarly-equipped Fusion Hybrid and Fusion SEL is somewhere about $4,000 and given that (at least until October 1) the Fusion Hybrid has a $1,700 tax credit, the cost should be recouped in about four to five years. (Certainly, that's what I came up with when I was deciding what to buy -- I drive 25,000 miles a year but drive mostly on the highway, so the gas difference is about the same for me as in the above example.)

 

That's also ignoring a major benefit of the hybrid, even discounting the environmental benefits -- it should be a major time-saver (at least so far it has been for me and hopefully will stay that way) -- many fewer stops at the gas station and many fewer trips for maintenance.

[nelsonlu]

You have to pay a large amount of cash upfront and drive hybrids 200,000 miles or keep them 20 years just to break even to make up the difference between the cost of it and a regular non-hybrid of the same type. Hybrids are brave effort, but it only serves to prove that before promised Government grants are taken into account, hybrid cars still have a long way to go.

 

 

I basing it on what the average person drives in the UK in a year- not everybody drives a taxi here JPD, even though l run the daughter around a lot l a feel a bit like a taxi driver most of the time.

 

Prius cost £21,210 ($33,763) new loses £12504 ($20,000) in its first four years in the UK, you could by yourself a Fiesta Econetic that is more roomier and returns better MPG with such a huge loss a Prius generates. How much long will those batteries last and how much will they cost to replace? Fiesta's bomb proof econetic diesel engine will last twice as long as well so you are getting two cars not one short lifed expensive Prius.

 

Your original claim was that it takes 20 years to break-even between "the cost of [the hybrid] and a regular non-hybrid of the same type." It's more than a little misleading to now compare the Prius and the Fiesta in that manner, given that they're not the same type. (As much as I don't consider Prius a true mid-sized car, it is substantially larger than the Fiesta. Even a Prius-Focus comparison still wouldn't be quite fair, either.)

[aggoodin]

Personally. I'm buying new cars anyways. Had I not bought a hybrid I would have bought something else for the same price. I bought the hybrid for the tech aspects of it and its lower operating costs, money is already spent on acquisition but this will cost me less to operate.

 

THe example I will use is I was prepared to drop 30k on a used BMW 3 series. A 22mpg car with high maintenance costs. Instead I bought a Fusion Hybrid for 30k, a 35mpg + car with lower average maintenance costs.

 

I don't give 2 shits about breaking even, ever. THis break even excuse is the lamest one of all time.

[jpd80]

I basing it on what the average person drives in the UK in a year- not everybody drives a taxi here JPD, even though l run the daughter around a lot l a feel a bit like a taxi driver most of the time.

 

Prius cost £21,210 ($33,763) new loses £12504 ($20,000) in its first four years in the UK, you could by yourself a Fiesta Econetic that is more roomier and returns better MPG with such a huge loss a Prius generates. How much long will those batteries last and how much will they cost to replace? Fiesta's bomb proof econetic diesel engine will last twice as long as well so you are getting two cars not one short lifed expensive Prius.

I believe the Fusion Hybrid will show all of them up, at city 41 mpg corrected (US 53 mpg uncorrected)

that has to be as good as your Econetic diesels in Mondeo.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Your original claim was that it takes 20 years to break-even between "the cost of [the hybrid] and a regular non-hybrid of the same type." It's more than a little misleading to now compare the Prius and the Fiesta in that manner, given that they're not the same type. (As much as I don't consider Prius a true mid-sized car, it is substantially larger than the Fiesta. Even a Prius-Focus comparison still wouldn't be quite fair, either.)

 

Fiesta has more legroom front and back more headroom front and back than a Prius where do you sit in a car on the roof when you drive

 

Fiesta Econtic has more room legroom headroom than a Prius does to 88 UK MPG compared to 65 UK MPG of the Prius costs nearly half the price of a Prius its diesel engine will last twice as long as a Prius it even pumps out a lot less C02 than a Prius (Not that l am bothered about C02, but some folk seem to think 22 feet waves with polar bears floating past on icebergs in 90c Florida will be our future just hope they have some high factor sun cream on If this is our future it will be all those nasty Prius drivers fault in their nasty high CO2 gas guzzling vehicles will be to blame when they could have brought themselves a polar bear friendly low CO2 Fiesta high MPG Econetic diesel ) and you only have to buy one cheap battery when it needs replacing, Prius costs just $2,299 .

 

Roomy Fiesta v pay double the price for less space in your cramped Prius comparison

http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...44617&ED3=0

Edited May 23, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[nelsonlu]

Fiesta has more legroom front and back more headroom front and back than a Prius where do you sit in a car on the roof when you drive

 

Unless the UK-spec Prius is substantially smaller than the US-spec Prius, this is not true. I don't have the specs on the Fiesta, but the US-spec Focus -- which is roughly the same size as the European-spec Focus and which is thus supposed to be larger than the Fiesta, has these figures according to cars.com:

 

Front legroom: 41.7"

Rear legroom: 36.1"

Front headroom: 39.2"

Rear headroom: 38.3"

Front hiproom: 50.4"

Rear hiproom: 50.9"

 

In comparison, the US-spec Prius -- and I'm referring to the current one, not the incoming one that is supposed to be roomier -- has these figures:

 

Front legroom: 41.9"

Rear legroom: 38.6"

Front headroom: 39.1"

Rear headroom: 37.3"

Front hiproom: 51.0"

Rear hiproom: 51.6"

 

Certainly, the Prius is not a roomy vehicle -- which was one major reason why I chose the Fusion Hybrid over it -- but it's certainly slightly roomier than the Focus and therefore the Fiesta.

Edited May 23, 2009 by nelsonlu

[jpd80]

Personally. I'm buying new cars anyways. Had I not bought a hybrid I would have bought something else for the same price. I bought the hybrid for the tech aspects of it and its lower operating costs, money is already spent on acquisition but this will cost me less to operate.

 

THe example I will use is I was prepared to drop 30k on a used BMW 3 series. A 22mpg car with high maintenance costs. Instead I bought a Fusion Hybrid for 30k, a 35mpg + car with lower average maintenance costs.

 

I don't give 2 shits about breaking even, ever. THis break even excuse is the lamest one of all time.

Congradulations on chosing a quality hybrid, Ford took great care to get the Fusion hybrid

system right and I hope you have many wonderful experiences driving it.

 

PS,

It's actually 41 mpg city fuel economy.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Unless the UK-spec Prius is substantially smaller than the US-spec Prius, this is not true. I don't have the specs on the Fiesta, but the US-spec Focus -- which is roughly the same size as the European-spec Focus and which is thus supposed to be larger than the Fiesta, has these figures according to cars.com:

 

In comparison, the US-spec Prius -- and I'm referring to the current one, not the incoming one that is supposed to be roomier -- has these figures:

 

PRIUS

Front legroom: 41.9"

Rear legroom: 38.6"

Front headroom: 39.1"

Rear headroom: 37.3"

Front hiproom: 51.0"

Rear hiproom: 51.6"

 

 

 

Certainly, the Prius is not a roomy vehicle -- which was one major reason why I chose the Fusion Hybrid over it -- but it's certainly slightly roomier than the Focus and therefore the Fiesta.

 

You didnot even bother to look at my comparison link, if you say a Prius has more room than a US Focus then l will take your word for it, But the Euro FIESTA has more LEGROOM more HEADROOM room FRONT and BACK, does more MPG, less C02, costs half the price and its bomb proof diesel engine will last twice as long as a rubbish Prius, here is a link again Fiesta v Prius again please bother to look this time.

 

FACTS - HEADROOM/LEGROOM Fiesta v Prius

http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...44617&ED3=0

 

FACTS - MPG Fiesta Econetic v Prius

http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...44617&ED3=0

 

PRICE

Fiesta £13,195 (Bomp proof diesel engine will last twice as long)

Prius £21,210 (Battery replacement) $2,299

 

FIESTA

Front legroom: 43.75 (Cars.com US Prius 41.9)

Front headroom: 39.1 (What Car - Euro Prius 38.65)

Rear headroom: 37.6 (Cars.com US Prius 37.3)

Rear Knee room: 32.6 (What Car - Euro Prius 29.9)

Edited May 23, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[aggoodin]

PS,

It's actually 41 mpg city fuel economy.

 

Not mine, not yet anyways. Its climbing but the overall is 34.1 after about 200 miles.

 

You have to learn to drive it and where the sweet spots are. Just over 65mph it starts doing 40mpg +. You have to learn to "slip it" into EV too. You'll never get up to speed in EV only, so gas up to speed, let off, slips into EV, and then partial throttle to maintain the speed and EV mode.

[Patate]

Fusion Hybrid sales up 100% at my house

 

+100% of 0 = 0

 

Or you bought 2 this month, compared to one the year before?

 

I know what you meant :P

 

Edit: Bah, I just read the whole thread. Someone else got on that so I guess i'm late.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Patate

[nelsonlu]

You didnot even bother to look at my comparison link, if you say a Prius has more room than a US Focus then l will take your word for it, But the Euro FIESTA has more LEGROOM more HEADROOM room FRONT and BACK, does more MPG, less C02, costs half the price and its bomb proof diesel engine will last twice as long as a rubbish Prius, here is a link again Fiesta v Prius again please bother to look this time.

 

OK, so it looks to me that the room in the Euro Prius is a lot smaller than the US Prius. Point taken.

 

But this thread started out as a thread about cars available in the US market. Therefore, the US Prius is the more appropriate vehicle to look at. And I guess we have to wait to see how the US Fiesta turns out.

[nelsonlu]

Not mine, not yet anyways. Its climbing but the overall is 34.1 after about 200 miles.

 

You have to learn to drive it and where the sweet spots are. Just over 65mph it starts doing 40mpg +. You have to learn to "slip it" into EV too. You'll never get up to speed in EV only, so gas up to speed, let off, slips into EV, and then partial throttle to maintain the speed and EV mode.

 

Well, every car has a break-in period. Right now, my car had just gone over 4,000 miles. I'm getting about 38 MPG overall, which I'm pretty happy about. (Most of my driving is highway.)

[Noah Harbinger]

That's not true,

New York cab drivers claim that they recouped the extra cost of

the hybrids inside 12 months, after that the rest is all cream.

 

NYC cabs do live a bit different life than most cars, spending all their time in the city, driving all day through stop and go traffic -- it's a lifestyle made for a hybrid. And in this case, they're comparing the fuel economy to a Crown Vic -- they're probably tripling their gas mileage!

[Ford Jellymoulds]

OK, so it looks to me that the room in the Euro Prius is a lot smaller than the US Prius. Point taken.

 

But this thread started out as a thread about cars available in the US market. Therefore, the US Prius is the more appropriate vehicle to look at. And I guess we have to wait to see how the US Fiesta turns out.

 

Gotta say l would like to see an Hybrid option offered on every vehicle Ford makes just like you get an option for Air Conditioning for folk that want it and can afford it. Maybe Ford should produce two hybrid systems are that universally fit different models to help keep the costs down, heavy duty for light trucks, sports cars & large cars and a light duty hybrid system for anything smaller than a Mondeo/US Fusion.

 

Hybrids are very important, long term oil supplies will start to dwindle countries like China & India's oil consumption will start to get out of control and force up the price worldwide. UK North Sea peak oil production was reached in 1999 and suppiles will start to nose dive in the next 5 years and thats all that has been propping up the UK economy & over loaded welfare system.

 

So FOE will be looking for US hybrid know how in the not to distant future as nothing stands still Citreon with its Cactus and many others are planning 100+ MPG Diesel/hybrids for the future so FOE will have to start using hybrid technology sooner rather than later, but at the moment Toyota Honda hybrids are way to expensive when diesels will to the same job for half the price thats why nobody buys Toyota and Honda in Europe, Ford/Pug diesels are so much better more durable last longer.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Ford Jellymoulds

[jpd80]

No doubt, cars are slowly being transitioned from internal combustion to electric.

I would love nothing better than to see a manufacturer replace the conventional power train and gearbox with

a mini turbine and generator that feeds power to a smaller set of batteries and motors on all four wheels.

With Aluminum construction, such a vehicle would revolutionize the way we look at cars an what can be done.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

No doubt, cars are slowly being transitioned from internal combustion to electric.

I would love nothing better than to see a manufacturer replace the conventional power train and gearbox with

a mini turbine and generator that feeds power to a smaller set of batteries and motors on all four wheels.

With Aluminum construction, such a vehicle would revolutionize the way we look at cars an what can be done.

 

Great idea would be better than the throw away cars we have today JPD, only problem is you would do yourself out of a job once you star using aluminium & composite materials, most old aircraft like BA's old A320's like G-BUSH with millions of miles on the clock entered service in the mid 80's and they have only just starting to cut them up, and even then their was still not lot wrong with them.

 

[jpd80]

Great idea would be better than the throw away cars we have today JPD, only problem is you would do yourself out of a job once you star using aluminium & composite materials, most old aircraft like BA's old A320's like G-BUSH with millions of miles on the clock entered service in the mid 80's and they have only just starting to cut them up, and even then their was still not lot wrong with them.

It strikes at what is needed in a car. For the past 100 years or so, people have been putting big reciprocating engines, gearboxes and transmissions into cars, the framing to support these items takes up a fair bit of real

estate and quite a portion of the vehicle's weight.

 

If auto manufacturers were to think more like aerospace and design a passenger compartment first

and then add the power train and wheel systems around it, I'm sure they could kill a lot of weight

without making cars look like golf carts.

Edited May 24, 2009 by jpd80

[WC-MAN]

Jellymoulds, I don't know were you live, but in America almost no car offer an option of air conditioning these days. In fact, a lot of people from up north complain about it.

 

Hybrids are the wave of the future, apparantly by Govt. force if nothing else. SO I agree, it would be good to see it offered on the whole line. I also think Ford needs to act quickly to match GM's Volt, but I would advise trying to adapt the Escape or Fusion to the job rather than coming out with a whole new model. Personally I would love to go Hybrid next time out, but their are few current Hybrids that meet my needs.