Not good enough. Ken!

[gocash]

Getting sick and tired of all the JR members talking trash. Some STAP members bringing down the whole fleet, just because their ship is sinking. They are only screwing the ones that help build this Union and made the gains we have today. I would sacrifice MORE than GM and Chrysler workers to protect the pensioners. This is what it's all about. Time for people to stop thinking ME ME ME for once!

 

Ed.

 

 

 

Wrong again Edsel....Ford pensioners are no where near being in the same trouble that the other companies pensioners are...Ford Canada pension is 73.5% funded compared to GM/Chrysler who were only at near 50% funded...Ford needs to be held accountable to this country and its employees in Canada if they want the same concessions as GM/Chrysler.....NO COMMITMENT= NO CONCESSIONS...that is the message that WE as members of the CAW absolutely need to send Ford and our CAW National....When/IF STAP closes or is idled, Ford will only be at 8-9% compared to GM/Chrysler who are in the 15-20 % range...This is not about the retirees now,it is about our future and us.

[sparky1520]

Getting sick and tired of all the JR members talking trash. Some STAP members bringing down the whole fleet, just because their ship is sinking. They are only screwing the ones that help build this Union and made the gains we have today. I would sacrifice MORE than GM and Chrysler workers to protect the pensioners. This is what it's all about. Time for people to stop thinking ME ME ME for once!

 

Ed.

Your full of shit, would you sacrifice your job? I call BS on EDSEL . With Edsel as your tag name that tells me u will soon be a retiree which means you want to protect YOUR future pension and benefits. As for STAP , why would we vote yes to anything without solid commitment. Our days are numbered as it stands now, and you want us to give up more to protect pensioners.If we do not take a stand now , when do we? Do we only take a stand when the pensioners lifestyle is affected? I do not want to see the pensioners lose anything, but I also do not want to see our union dues paying, working families lose anymore than was given at last "perfect storm" contract renegotiations.

How is taking a stand against a company greed screwing the pensioners? So we give in now, lose more jobs, lose more money, lose more benefits, then what is next? I tell u what is next they come after pensioners, is that when we take a stand?

I am glad and appreciative that the retired members fought hard for what we have and I can't understand how anyone can say that now we need to stop the fight . Grow a set of balls Edsel

I will be voting no because I would some day like to be one of those ford pensioners, not another closed plant statistic. As it stands now I will not be afforded that chance if people like you get your way and give in to everything without so much as a wimper.

[Topgun]

Your full of shit, would you sacrifice your job? I call BS on EDSEL . With Edsel as your tag name that tells me u will soon be a retiree which means you want to protect YOUR future pension and benefits. As for STAP , why would we vote yes to anything without solid commitment. Our days are numbered as it stands now, and you want us to give up more to protect pensioners.If we do not take a stand now , when do we? Do we only take a stand when the pensioners lifestyle is affected? I do not want to see the pensioners lose anything, but I also do not want to see our union dues paying, working families lose anymore than was given at last "perfect storm" contract renegotiations.

How is taking a stand against a company greed screwing the pensioners? So we give in now, lose more jobs, lose more money, lose more benefits, then what is next? I tell u what is next they come after pensioners, is that when we take a stand?

I am glad and appreciative that the retired members fought hard for what we have and I can't understand how anyone can say that now we need to stop the fight . Grow a set of balls Edsel

I will be voting no because I would some day like to be one of those ford pensioners, not another closed plant statistic. As it stands now I will not be afforded that chance if people like you get your way and give in to everything without so much as a wimper.

Well said sparky 1520.

[OACville]

I asked this question earlier and Nobody seemed to have an answer. Will STAP even be allowed to vote on concessions? If they are slated to close they might only be allowed to vote on the closure package. If that's the case then No Commitment = A No Concessions is not even an option. I read somewhere that Ford isn't even going to ask STAP for concessions because they are closing.

[gocash]

I asked this question earlier and Nobody seemed to have an answer. Will STAP even be allowed to vote on concessions? If they are slated to close they might only be allowed to vote on the closure package. If that's the case then No Commitment = A No Concessions is not even an option. I read somewhere that Ford isn't even going to ask STAP for concessions because they are closing.

 

 

Technically Ford hasn't announced a "plant closure" at STAP as of this point...The CAW and Ford have only announced there will not be any product after Sept. 2011...I would assume that since FOMOCO hasn't announced plant closure yet,they don't actually have to negotiate a plant closure package...I have heard that Ford doesn't want concessions from STAP also,and that we won't necessarily be voting on concessions whenever a new deal gets struck... NO COMMITMENT = NO CONCESSIONS applies to ALL Ford plants in Canada,if you look at it as getting some sort of arrangement/ security where Ford has to maintain the same % of production in Canada as GM/Chrysler agreed to in order to get the gov't loans,which is between 15-20% going forward....I personally would love to see both Windsor and Oakville Assembly adopt the NO COMMITMENT=NO CONCESSIONS amongst ALL of the CAW members within these communities and STAND UP for ALL Canadian Ford workers....I wish the CAW National Leadership had the balls to stand up to Ford and get on board with NO COMMITMENT= NO CONCESSIONS also, but I haven't seen it happen yet.....

[OACville]

Technically Ford hasn't announced a "plant closure" at STAP as of this point...The CAW and Ford have only announced there will not be any product after Sept. 2011...I would assume that since FOMOCO hasn't announced plant closure yet,they don't actually have to negotiate a plant closure package...I have heard that Ford doesn't want concessions from STAP also,and that we won't necessarily be voting on concessions whenever a new deal gets struck... NO COMMITMENT = NO CONCESSIONS applies to ALL Ford plants in Canada,if you look at it as getting some sort of arrangement/ security where Ford has to maintain the same % of production in Canada as GM/Chrysler agreed to in order to get the gov't loans,which is between 15-20% going forward....I personally would love to see both Windsor and Oakville Assembly adopt the NO COMMITMENT=NO CONCESSIONS amongst ALL of the CAW members within these communities and STAND UP for ALL Canadian Ford workers....I wish the CAW National Leadership had the balls to stand up to Ford and get on board with NO COMMITMENT= NO CONCESSIONS also, but I haven't seen it happen yet.....

 

 

Oakville stepped up and said no at the last round of concessions. Why didnt STAP stand with us then? I have no idea on how Oakville will vote this time around.

[gocash]

Oakville stepped up and said no at the last round of concessions. Why didnt STAP stand with us then? I have no idea on how Oakville will vote this time around.

 

 

Yes Oakville did step up and vote NO last year, I did as well.But there are alot of members at STAP that just go with the stories of "trust your union" and voted YES because they were scared by the "perfect storm" scenario presented at the ratification meeting. They believe in the "live to fight another day" scenario also. I think it is different this time,people realize that living with 1 year extensions isn't a very good feeling. I'm not convinced which way a vote might go this time around,but I believe that if STAP has any chance of getting investment and being retooled,it has to be negotiated at this time.Ford wants something from us,and we need something from them in return...If we can get the CAW to take a NO COMMITMENT = NO CONCESSIONS stand and demand that Ford maintain a percentage of production in Canada equal to that of what GM/Chrysler agreed to,it might be the only hope STAP has of staying operating in the future.It would also put an end to the rumours of Oakville losing its product to the U.S. and it would also quiet the threats by Ford of leaving this country altogether....In my opinion, if concessions are given with nothing in return for ALL Ford workers in Canada during these upcoming negotiations,it will be the end of the CAW as we have known it up until now.....But then again,what do I know??

[iluvnascar]

Rather than all the bluster about NO CONCESSIONS and so on.......I would love to see the St. Thomas Bargaining Committee make a public offer to Ford. I would think that - by now - they would have sat down with local political representatives and gained a funding/incentive commitment for Ford.....and that armed with a promise of financing support, a no-strike clause, and an agreement to have St. Thomas wages/benefits/and productivity 5% below the level of the transplants, Ford would have a tough choice to make. With record Canadian sales; and a production footprint below GM/Chrysler, all that is missing is a financial incentive and a concession package.........and Ford would be in a very tough political corner.

 

But as it stands, it's being painted as Ford looking to remain competitive (don't forget that both GM and Chrysler have a concession package in place; and a balance sheet far better than Ford by virtue of all the debt that was forgiven through bankruptcy filings).........and the CAW standing in their way.

[gocash]

Rather than all the bluster about NO CONCESSIONS and so on.......I would love to see the St. Thomas Bargaining Committee make a public offer to Ford. I would think that - by now - they would have sat down with local political representatives and gained a funding/incentive commitment for Ford.....and that armed with a promise of financing support, a no-strike clause, and an agreement to have St. Thomas wages/benefits/and productivity 5% below the level of the transplants, Ford would have a tough choice to make. With record Canadian sales; and a production footprint below GM/Chrysler, all that is missing is a financial incentive and a concession package.........and Ford would be in a very tough political corner.

 

But as it stands, it's being painted as Ford looking to remain competitive (don't forget that both GM and Chrysler have a concession package in place; and a balance sheet far better than Ford by virtue of all the debt that was forgiven through bankruptcy filings).........and the CAW standing in their way.

 

 

I guess that makes some sense Nascar,the CAW has already met with federal,provincial and municipal gov't officials and I'm sure they have some financing from them confirmed. With the concessions that you have suggested,and you being a retiree,I'm guessing that you also would be willing to take a hit on benefits and a 10% drop in your pension to make this happen??...it's true that GM/Chrysler have wiped out most of their debt through bankruptcy,but they are still being publicly scrutinized by the buying consumers which has put Ford on top of sales in this country. The only public talk by the CAW National Leadership has been "pattern bargaining" and that Ford workers need to give concessions to make Ford "competitive" again...The CAW isn't standing in Ford's way,as you say....Ford needs to give the members a guaranteed percentage of production in this country comparable to GM/Chrysler in order to get the same concessions. Hell,Lewenza can't even be consistent to whether we are fighting for major investment at the St.Thomas facility or if the CAW is seeking an extension until the contract ends in 2012. If Lewenza would rally the members for a DEFINITIVE CAUSE, instead of jumping back and forth and all over the place,things might get worked out for everyone. If the cause is just another extension of one year at STAP then it is not worthwhile to give any concessions by any of the CAW Locals. I think most members at Ford are tired of walking on eggshells and just want this shit to end.

Edited August 5, 2009 by gocash

[gocash]

Rather than all the bluster about NO CONCESSIONS and so on.......I would love to see the St. Thomas Bargaining Committee make a public offer to Ford. I would think that - by now - they would have sat down with local political representatives and gained a funding/incentive commitment for Ford.....and that armed with a promise of financing support, a no-strike clause, and an agreement to have St. Thomas wages/benefits/and productivity 5% below the level of the transplants, Ford would have a tough choice to make. With record Canadian sales; and a production footprint below GM/Chrysler, all that is missing is a financial incentive and a concession package.........and Ford would be in a very tough political corner.

 

But as it stands, it's being painted as Ford looking to remain competitive (don't forget that both GM and Chrysler have a concession package in place; and a balance sheet far better than Ford by virtue of all the debt that was forgiven through bankruptcy filings).........and the CAW standing in their way.

 

 

When the leader of the CAW makes public comments like this..."Ford has an obligation to work with the CAW and the federal, provincial and municipal governments to maintain jobs in the St. Thomas facility," said CAW President Ken Lewenza. "It's unacceptable to the CAW and the workers in this facility that Ford has no product beyond 2011 for this plant."

 

and says this 2 days later... Lewenza said keeping St. Thomas open would be one of the union's main priorities in bargaining a new agreement, which would extend the current deal to 2012. "At the very least, we want to keep that plant going for the life of the agreement, which is now out to 2012, and give us even more of an opportunity if their market share increases to argue intelligently about a new product (for the plant)," he said.

 

When this is actually what is taking place in front of our eyes....In order to receive emergency funding from the governments of Canada and the province of Ontario, GM and Chrysler had to commit to maintaining somewhere between 15 and 20 percent of their Canada-U.S. vehicle production in Canada.

 

Lewenza said that Ford's manufacturing footprint in Canada is about 13 to 14 percent of its Canada-U.S. production, but that would fall to below 10 percent if the St. Thomas plant is closed.

 

 

What message is the Leadership trying to send? because it isn't clear to me...

 

but... NO COMMITMENT = NO CONCESSIONS is a very clear message that can and should be sent back to Ford by ALL CAW members.

[iluvnascar]

I guess that makes some sense Nascar,the CAW has already met with federal,provincial and municipal gov't officials and I'm sure they have some financing from them confirmed. With the concessions that you have suggested,and you being a retiree,I'm guessing that you also would be willing to take a hit on benefits and a 10% drop in your pension to make this happen??...it's true that GM/Chrysler have wiped out most of their debt through bankruptcy,but they are still being publicly scrutinized by the buying consumers which has put Ford on top of sales in this country. The only public talk by the CAW National Leadership has been "pattern bargaining" and that Ford workers need to give concessions to make Ford "competitive" again...The CAW isn't standing in Ford's way,as you say....Ford needs to give the members a guaranteed percentage of production in this country comparable to GM/Chrysler in order to get the same concessions. Hell,Lewenza can't even be consistent to whether we are fighting for major investment at the St.Thomas facility or if the CAW is seeking an extension until the contract ends in 2012. If Lewenza would rally the members for a DEFINITIVE CAUSE, instead of jumping back and forth and all over the place,things might get worked out for everyone. If the cause is just another extension of one year at STAP then it is not worthwhile to give any concessions by any of the CAW Locals. I think most members at Ford are tired of walking on eggshells and just want this shit to end.

 

".........I'm guessing that you also would be willing to take a hit on benefits and a 10% drop in your pension to make this happen??..."

 

 

Yes gocash......I would be more than willing to take a 10% pension hit. And a benefits hit.....and whatever it takes. Don't forget.....a 10% pension hit (like a 10% wage hit) is before tax.....in essence, the Government picks up close to half the hit through reduced taxes payable.

 

I'm a "Ford guy" through and through. I don't like it anymore than you......but the most important thing - for me - is to maintain the Ford presence in Canada.....and that means maintaining St. Thomas as a viable entity. I have written all elected officials on numerous occasions and I will continue to do so. The only politico with a notiecable interest is Steve Peters......and although there MAY be others, they are certainly silent,

[gocash]

".........I'm guessing that you also would be willing to take a hit on benefits and a 10% drop in your pension to make this happen??..."

 

 

Yes gocash......I would be more than willing to take a 10% pension hit. And a benefits hit.....and whatever it takes. Don't forget.....a 10% pension hit (like a 10% wage hit) is before tax.....in essence, the Government picks up close to half the hit through reduced taxes payable.

 

I'm a "Ford guy" through and through. I don't like it anymore than you......but the most important thing - for me - is to maintain the Ford presence in Canada.....and that means maintaining St. Thomas as a viable entity. I have written all elected officials on numerous occasions and I will continue to do so. The only politico with a notiecable interest is Steve Peters......and although there MAY be others, they are certainly silent,

 

 

.but the most important thing - for me - is to maintain the Ford presence in Canada.....and that means maintaining St. Thomas as a viable entity.

 

Brother,we are both on the same page...I guess we wait and see what happens when bargaining begins on Sept. 8th..hopefully enough pressure is put on both parties to get something done for ALL Canadian Ford workers.

[gocash]

".........I'm guessing that you also would be willing to take a hit on benefits and a 10% drop in your pension to make this happen??..."

 

 

Yes gocash......I would be more than willing to take a 10% pension hit. And a benefits hit.....and whatever it takes. Don't forget.....a 10% pension hit (like a 10% wage hit) is before tax.....in essence, the Government picks up close to half the hit through reduced taxes payable.

 

I'm a "Ford guy" through and through. I don't like it anymore than you......but the most important thing - for me - is to maintain the Ford presence in Canada.....and that means maintaining St. Thomas as a viable entity. I have written all elected officials on numerous occasions and I will continue to do so. The only politico with a notiecable interest is Steve Peters......and although there MAY be others, they are certainly silent,

 

 

Nascar,I don't believe that any current Ford retirees should be asked or required to give ANY concessions at all,they earned what they are receiving and should be allowed to retire with dignity...That being said, I also believe that the current Ford employees should not be asked to give anything up in order to "top-up" the pension fund for past retirees either. That responsibility lies with Ford Motor Co. itself,since they have not kept it totally funded during the highly profitable times.The CAW needs to ensure that Ford continues to add to the pension fund annually with an adequate supply of cash going forward to "top-up" the pension fund so instead of being at 73.5% funded it gets closer to 90% or more funded in the near future. On the other hand if Ford makes a solid commitment to maintaining the current number of employees in Canada,and keeps a percentage of production close to that of GM/Chrysler (which is 15-20%) and that would indeed insure that STAP remains open for many years to come,so that the employees like myself have an opportunity to retire from Ford someday...then I personally could accept donating $1/hour towards a pension fund that I would likely draw from someday. In the new GM/Chrysler contract, any new hires will have $1/hour donated towards the pension fund of their respective companies,I don't see anything wrong with that being the norm for all auto workers in Canada,as it is relatively small in comparison to wages.I also think that the "special payment" for summer vacation should stay in the contract going forward,although I do realize that GM/Chrysler were forced to give that up in order for our crummy gov't to give the bridge loans required for those companies to survive. Another concession that I totally disagree with that was forced upon GM/Chrysler was the 1 week waiting period for Sickness and Accidents Benefits...I don't think that is a fair concession for anyone who becomes temporarily disabled,who will now miss a weeks pay when it will likely be needed at the worst possible time. I would never have given that concession if I had the power to stop it....just my thoughts.

[ute]

Thanks gocash ..as a retiree i appreciate what you have said we based our life on what we get ...no OT for us ..lol

 

that being said i for one would give up 10% to guarantee STAP a product...Stap gave me a great life for 30 years ...but it would be only for a long term guarantee

 

i agree 100% with your post ..all solid

 

 

 

you should be in charge instead of Lewenza

[iluvnascar]

I think we need to realize that we are playing in a "world market". Thanks to our politicians, free trade has allowed any and all products to enter North America from almost any country. Countries like China, Korea and Mexico manufacture products with minimal wage costs......and North American consumers buy them. They are all looking for the lowest price. "Made in Canada" or "Made in America" just doesn't cut it with most consumers. They don't care where the rpduct comes from.....they just want it cheap......and they don't understand the implications. Ford (and GM & Chrysler) are essentially being forced into moving production to low-wage economies if they want to survive. They have no choice. You can't change the laws of economics and so if we want Ford (and GM & Chrysler) to build cars in North America, we have to make it unbelievably attractive.......and that means concessions and more concessions and pension cuts and benefit cuts and Goverment incentives and low/no-interest loans and so on. The alternatives are a lower paying good job with an auto manufacturer....or likely no job at all.

 

Our politicians haven't faced up to the fact that you can't have a successful economic model without manufacturing. They seem to think that everyone can be a Government employee or a Health Care employee (Government funded, of course) or self-employed. To hell with manufacturing......it's "old work".....bring on the "new Economy"! (Whatever that is)

 

That's why I have volunteered (in writing) a pension cut and a benefits cut. And why I have written numerous letters to political officials asking for Government incentives for Ford to maintain the footprint in canada (i.e. St. Thomas). i want to see no-interest loans to Ford; accompanied by concessions and pension benefit cuts from the employees; with a new product being introduced; and with the loan totally forgiveable over time based upon the number of full time jobs created and maintained.

 

We should all be prepared to sacrifice big time....whether it's justified or not. The alternative is too dire.

[Jaah]

Good thoughts and opinons guys. Just want to stress that in my humble opinion based on everyone I talked to, no one is voting no to concessions unless there is no long term comittment to Canadian operations.

 

PS: I am not on pension but not too far away, that being said, I do not think pensioners should be taking any kind of a cut. Its great that some can afford to, but many cannot and any alternative way for them to make up the loss is rare. Those of us still working can still lobby our union to retrieve any concessions in future negotiations provided we still have a job.

[sparky1520]

We should all be prepared to sacrifice big time....whether it's justified or not. The alternative is too dire.

 

Before I start .I do not have a large family, do not need much of the bennies and am 17 years from my 30.

With that said,

I don't want to give up anything else, but we all know it is almost inevitable.

So instead of coughing up more benefits holidays,etc,etc (which come directly out of only our pocket), why can't we take a actual wage reduction and save cuts to the benefits and other things? At least with a wage reduction, we ALL take a hit, gov't on lower tax intake from us, CAW with lower union dues, and us with less income, everyone across the board (except FORD of coarse ) sacrifices.As an example, at my tax base a 5$ per hr cut is actually more like 2.75$ approx. because gov't coughs up the other 2.25$ approx in lost tax intake.The union would cough up 11.67$ approx. per month, and we all share the belt tightening.

I will now repeat, I personally do not want to give anything else up.

 

I hope that when I retire , the pension I had built my retirement on would not slowly be chiselled away like everything else we we have invested in.So let us leave the pensioners where they are. I am pretty sure the majority of the pensioners would vote no on any of this BS if they were still working. Hell, they were the ones who got us all the stuff we are now giving away.

[justnthrmushroom]

I think we need to realize that we are playing in a "world market". Thanks to our politicians, free trade has allowed any and all products to enter North America from almost any country. Countries like China, Korea and Mexico manufacture products with minimal wage costs......and North American consumers buy them. They are all looking for the lowest price. "Made in Canada" or "Made in America" just doesn't cut it with most consumers. They don't care where the rpduct comes from.....they just want it cheap......and they don't understand the implications. Ford (and GM & Chrysler) are essentially being forced into moving production to low-wage economies if they want to survive. They have no choice. You can't change the laws of economics and so if we want Ford (and GM & Chrysler) to build cars in North America, we have to make it unbelievably attractive.......and that means concessions and more concessions and pension cuts and benefit cuts and Goverment incentives and low/no-interest loans and so on. The alternatives are a lower paying good job with an auto manufacturer....or likely no job at all.

 

Our politicians haven't faced up to the fact that you can't have a successful economic model without manufacturing. They seem to think that everyone can be a Government employee or a Health Care employee (Government funded, of course) or self-employed. To hell with manufacturing......it's "old work".....bring on the "new Economy"! (Whatever that is)

 

That's why I have volunteered (in writing) a pension cut and a benefits cut. And why I have written numerous letters to political officials asking for Government incentives for Ford to maintain the footprint in canada (i.e. St. Thomas). i want to see no-interest loans to Ford; accompanied by concessions and pension benefit cuts from the employees; with a new product being introduced; and with the loan totally forgiveable over time based upon the number of full time jobs created and maintained.

 

We should all be prepared to sacrifice big time....whether it's justified or not. The alternative is too dire.

 

Essentially what you're saying is all is lost. Give up, we're doomed, check mate, etc... I don't believe that major concessions will ever be enough. Unless, any and all concessions be accompanied by very rigid contract language coupled with economic penalty for non-compliance.

Consider how much our wages and benefits actually contribute to the cost of a new vehicle. We could work for free and the consumer would only see at most a couple thousand dollars in price. Also, that would only be if the savings are actually passed onto the customer. There is a larger corporate problem. However, direct labour costs are not the problem. But, indirect costs such as work rules, classifications, and company contributed union causes (ie. social justice fund, Port Elgin, etc.) should be considered in any cost savings before direct labour and benefit costs are touched.

If the renegotiated contract is concession laden without major investment I personally believe STAP will vote no. Think critically and don't be swayed by "Perfect Storm" presentations. Sooner or latter a stand will need to be taken.

[gocash]

Essentially what you're saying is all is lost. Give up, we're doomed, check mate, etc... I don't believe that major concessions will ever be enough. Unless, any and all concessions be accompanied by very rigid contract language coupled with economic penalty for non-compliance.

Consider how much our wages and benefits actually contribute to the cost of a new vehicle. We could work for free and the consumer would only see at most a couple thousand dollars in price. Also, that would only be if the savings are actually passed onto the customer. There is a larger corporate problem. However, direct labour costs are not the problem. But, indirect costs such as work rules, classifications, and company contributed union causes (ie. social justice fund, Port Elgin, etc.) should be considered in any cost savings before direct labour and benefit costs are touched.

If the renegotiated contract is concession laden without major investment I personally believe STAP will vote no. Think critically and don't be swayed by "Perfect Storm" presentations. Sooner or latter a stand will need to be taken.

Edited September 16, 2009 by gocash

[iluvnascar]

Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE - needs to start lobbying and calling his/her elected representatives and DEMAND a major incentive package for Ford (or some other automaker willing to buy the Plant and its workforce to manufacture its own product). Ford is asking for concessions to match Chrysler and GM; and Ford should also be getting Government aid similar to that given to Chrysler/GM. Otherwise, it's not a fair deal.

 

There may be something going on behind the scenes but I doubt it. And a public show of a desire for Government aid - accompanied by a willingness to accept concessions - needs to take place. Money talks and if a large Government incentive package were made available in return for Ford's guarantee to maintain the historical Canadian production ratio, it might be enough.

[Trimdingman]

Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE - needs to start lobbying and calling his/her elected representatives and DEMAND a major incentive package for Ford (or some other automaker willing to buy the Plant and its workforce to manufacture its own product). Ford is asking for concessions to match Chrysler and GM; and Ford should also be getting Government aid similar to that given to Chrysler/GM. Otherwise, it's not a fair deal.

 

There may be something going on behind the scenes but I doubt it. And a public show of a desire for Government aid - accompanied by a willingness to accept concessions - needs to take place. Money talks and if a large Government incentive package were made available in return for Ford's guarantee to maintain the historical Canadian production ratio, it might be enough.

 

 

Ford will recieve more appreciation from, and sell more new cars to the public if they do not take money from the government. As for the future of auto workers, it is out of our hands. The car companies have shown us who is the boss and who the boss was all along. Our wages and benefits were not "won" by our union. It was all a charade. The car companies are paying what it is in their best interest to pay. Paying a comparative handful of workers wages that are required to be new car buyers makes business sense, if it can be magnified to make the public believe that more people make these wages than actually do. This causes a ripple of higher wage expectation throughout the whole middle class. This will be reaped by the car companies by either increased sales volumes or higher car prices, or a combination of both.

[OAC_Paint]

Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE - needs to start lobbying and calling his/her elected representatives and DEMAND a major incentive package for Ford (or some other automaker willing to buy the Plant and its workforce to manufacture its own product). Ford is asking for concessions to match Chrysler and GM; and Ford should also be getting Government aid similar to that given to Chrysler/GM. Otherwise, it's not a fair deal.

 

There may be something going on behind the scenes but I doubt it. And a public show of a desire for Government aid - accompanied by a willingness to accept concessions - needs to take place. Money talks and if a large Government incentive package were made available in return for Ford's guarantee to maintain the historical Canadian production ratio, it might be enough.

 

 

No. Fords sales and market share are skyrocketing because they did not take a bailout. Relax dude. The future is bright..check out the products....

[iluvnascar]

".....Ford will receive more appreciation from, and sell more new cars to the public if they do not take money from the government."

 

".....No. Fords sales and market share are skyrocketing because they did not take a bailout. Relax dude. The future is bright..check out the products...."

 

 

Although I agree with both of these statements, I think there is a huge difference between taking money from the taxpayers to avoid bankruptcy.........versus having the Government "invest" in a new product decision destined to enhance Government revenues for years to come. Every new product/plant gets some kind of Government assitance and incentives.....the only question is who wants to pay the tab in order to earn the sourcing.

[Trimdingman]

".....Ford will receive more appreciation from, and sell more new cars to the public if they do not take money from the government."

 

".....No. Fords sales and market share are skyrocketing because they did not take a bailout. Relax dude. The future is bright..check out the products...."

 

 

Although I agree with both of these statements, I think there is a huge difference between taking money from the taxpayers to avoid bankruptcy.........versus having the Government "invest" in a new product decision destined to enhance Government revenues for years to come. Every new product/plant gets some kind of Government assitance and incentives.....the only question is who wants to pay the tab in order to earn the sourcing.

 

The people have been played at this game for too long. They are starting to wise up. Why should they be played one against the other for sourcing and then have to turn around and bail the car companies out when they get into trouble? If that is the case, shouldn't the government own part of the car companies, and shouldn't the people get subsidizes when buying new cars? This is government at its worst. It is like Communism. Are GM and Chrysler closet Communists? Auto companies locate where it is most beneficial for them. Make them provide the guarantees before allowing them to build their eyesores in your community. The government keeps us all close to poverty with their high taxes, so we are like slaves, and beg for factory jobs. Factory jobs should be for the lower classes, not the middle class. What have we become?

[justnthrmushroom]

The people have been played at this game for too long. They are starting to wise up. Why should they be played one against the other for sourcing and then have to turn around and bail the car companies out when they get into trouble? If that is the case, shouldn't the government own part of the car companies, and shouldn't the people get subsidizes when buying new cars? This is government at its worst. It is like Communism. Are GM and Chrysler closet Communists? Auto companies locate where it is most beneficial for them. Make them provide the guarantees before allowing them to build their eyesores in your community. The government keeps us all close to poverty with their high taxes, so we are like slaves, and beg for factory jobs. Factory jobs should be for the lower classes, not the middle class. What have we become?

 

So take a stand and quit. Show the masses how committed you are to your rhetoric.

I'll bet you show up for work. :shades: