OHAP/LAP Consolidation

[Spring]

Word is coming down that Paul Quick has been at it again (heads up here International UAW and National Ford Department - he's a huge liability to you! He's going to drag you into all sorts of crap before he's through!) and has decreed that the appointed reps from LAP will retain their appointed jobs. So we will have 5 Health and Safety Reps, 3 Standards Reps, 4 Benefits reps, 3 Quality Reps, and our 4 ERCs and however many LAP has. That takes us to over 19 appointed reps. What that means is that 3 of our elected reps will not be on the floor - Bill Samples, Marvin Jones and Chris Ladikos will not be able to represent the membership on a full time basis. We will have 10 elected reps vs 19+ appointed reps. It would appear that the National Ford Department is steering us towards an appointed schill union as opposed to an elected union. Oh, and the 10 elected reps we have includes the Chairman. Now of course everyone is aware that appointed reps cannot write grievances or anything like that. And we've all seen how effective they are (NOT) when they're needed. So basically, they (National Ford) are trying to deny us our voice and subrogate our Collective Bargaining rights by denying us representation. I move that we should withold submitting our union dues and hold them in escrow - similar to a renter's strike until such a time as the union decides to start doing what we pay union dues for and that is to represent the rights of the membership and ensure that the CBA is adhered to (just a little reminder in case they forgot just what it is that they're supposed to be doing)!

[coconut]

Since we will have so many health and safety reps, I hope they address the fact that there are hardly any emergency line stop lights in trim. Sure we have the ones that stop a unit from leaving your station for a delta item (for quality) but what about safety= for example, someone being caught in the chain , etc. Are you telling me we have to do a 100 yard dash to the next stop light?! We can do better than this... :angry:

[Spring]

Since we will have so many health and safety reps, I hope they address the fact that there are hardly any emergency line stop lights in trim. Sure we have the ones that stop a unit from leaving your station for a delta item (for quality) but what about safety= for example, someone being caught in the chain , etc. Are you telling me we have to do a 100 yard dash to the next stop light?! We can do better than this... :angry:

 

 

Coconut, yeppers, that's pretty much it.

 

I don't know what it is going to take to impress this upon the membership! The International Union/National Ford Department does NOT care about the membership! They have a complete and utter contempt for the wishes and dictates of the rank and file membership. They are going to continue to completely disregard the Constitution and the contract. In their arrogance, incompetence and ignorance they believe they are above "the law" and that we are too weak and too small to stand up against them.

[dirtydeeds]

Word is coming down that Paul Quick has been at it again (heads up here International UAW and National Ford Department - he's a huge liability to you! He's going to drag you into all sorts of crap before he's through!) and has decreed that the appointed reps from LAP will retain their appointed jobs. So we will have 5 Health and Safety Reps, 3 Standards Reps, 4 Benefits reps, 3 Quality Reps, and our 4 ERCs and however many LAP has. That takes us to over 19 appointed reps. What that means is that 3 of our elected reps will not be on the floor - Bill Samples, Marvin Jones and Chris Ladikos will not be able to represent the membership on a full time basis. We will have 10 elected reps vs 19+ appointed reps. It would appear that the National Ford Department is steering us towards an appointed schill union as opposed to an elected union. Oh, and the 10 elected reps we have includes the Chairman. Now of course everyone is aware that appointed reps cannot write grievances or anything like that. And we've all seen how effective they are (NOT) when they're needed. So basically, they (National Ford) are trying to deny us our voice and subrogate our Collective Bargaining rights by denying us representation. I move that we should withold submitting our union dues and hold them in escrow - similar to a renter's strike until such a time as the union decides to start doing what we pay union dues for and that is to represent the rights of the membership and ensure that the CBA is adhered to (just a little reminder in case they forgot just what it is that they're supposed to be doing)!

LAP reps take care of trim and chassie, avon reps take care of paint and body, quality reps were bid jobs. Are you suggesting they cut out these jobs? Or are you saying these jobs should be filled with avon people?

[Spring]

Now when you talk about reps, you're not talking about elected committeemen, are you? I'm talking about appointed reps. The quality reps are not bid jobs. These are appointed. I think you may be talking about something else. Maybe QLI coordinators. In that case, those are bid. But I'm talking about the internationally appointed ones. My point on this is that the contract is very specific that you are allowed so many reps per so many people. Health and Safety, Standards, Quality, Benefits, etc. are all based on population numbers necessary for representation, the same as committeemen. The only ones that don't seem to be are ERCs. Usually you can get away with however many you can negotiate for. By the way, who's telling you that the LAP reps will be taking care of Chassis and Trim? They're just making the assignments now. Why would LAP be assigned to Final? There are OHAP people there as well.

[American Thunder]

Dirtydeeds you would rather have appointed union reps or elected grievance handlers? You are now at local 2000 and it will be local 2000 committeeman that will represent you. The only reason your appointed people are coming is because they are appointed by the international and the international must remove them not the Chairman from either local. And it's not just appionted people from Lorain either we still have all the appointed reps from when the Mariner went down. Nick G. does not have the authority to remove them.And for Bargining Structrue again it was the international who said both locals must hold there elections it wasn't up to either local to decide. The decisions being made are forced on all of us and it sucks we couldn't change the mistakes that have been made and go back and do the right thing. For now we need all the committeeman we can get on the floor the hell with having so many appointed people arguing about keeping there job. I'll take more committeeman and less appointed people anyday. Lets put politics off to the side there is a time in the near future for politics. Right now we need to set up our areas and fight the extra work being put on our jobs with the smaller work spaces we all have now.

[Antro]

Word is coming down that Paul Quick has been at it again (heads up here International UAW and National Ford Department - he's a huge liability to you! He's going to drag you into all sorts of crap before he's through!) and has decreed that the appointed reps from LAP will retain their appointed jobs. So we will have 5 Health and Safety Reps, 3 Standards Reps, 4 Benefits reps, 3 Quality Reps, and our 4 ERCs and however many LAP has. That takes us to over 19 appointed reps. What that means is that 3 of our elected reps will not be on the floor - Bill Samples, Marvin Jones and Chris Ladikos will not be able to represent the membership on a full time basis. We will have 10 elected reps vs 19+ appointed reps. It would appear that the National Ford Department is steering us towards an appointed schill union as opposed to an elected union. Oh, and the 10 elected reps we have includes the Chairman. Now of course everyone is aware that appointed reps cannot write grievances or anything like that. And we've all seen how effective they are (NOT) when they're needed. So basically, they (National Ford) are trying to deny us our voice and subrogate our Collective Bargaining rights by denying us representation. I move that we should withold submitting our union dues and hold them in escrow - similar to a renter's strike until such a time as the union decides to start doing what we pay union dues for and that is to represent the rights of the membership and ensure that the CBA is adhered to (just a little reminder in case they forgot just what it is that they're supposed to be doing)!

 

 

Who told you that Paul Quick has made this decision? I thought that Bantom said at the infamous Maumee meeting that all appointees worked for him and he would make any decisions regarding thier status after the consolidation. As far as any of the appointees from either plant have told me noone knows what decision has been made. If you have solid information regarding this or any of the myriad other concerns about who will be working where (clean up powerhouse etc) give us a firm source so we can take action.

[Spring]

First of all Ben, who empowered you to answer these questions? I believe that these things should be addressed by the Chairman. Furthermore, as a locally appointed person, your answer can only be suspect as to someone who is looking to protect his own position. As to the clean up positions, if you or anyone else has any questions about what they're saying, just ask them. Honestly, I really couldn't tell you what exactly is going on with the clean up guys, just know they're upset about something. What does the powerhouse have to do with anything? Who brought that up? Secondly, it isn't really any secret that Paul Quick has made many of the decisions regarding this situation with the consolidation, is it? It's not like he has a close warm cuddly relationship with our chairman as opposed to his warm cuddly friendship with Jack Hall, is it?

[Spring]

Ben, let me ask you a question here, do you think it's more important to have elected or appointed reps on the floor? Especially with all the confusion and questions? Personally, I believe that it is more important that we have elected reps. The contract calls for very specific numbers and I believe we should hold to that. The people elected the committeemen and they should have as many as possible to represent them. Do you honestly think we need to have all those appointed reps? I don't mind saying I don't. They cannot write grievances nor can they interpret the contract, only administer the areas of their responsibility.

[Antro]

First of all Ben, who empowered you to answer these questions? I believe that these things should be addressed by the Chairman. Furthermore, as a locally appointed person, your answer can only be suspect as to someone who is looking to protect his own position. As to the clean up positions, if you or anyone else has any questions about what they're saying, just ask them. Honestly, I really couldn't tell you what exactly is going on with the clean up guys, just know they're upset about something. What does the powerhouse have to do with anything? Who brought that up? Secondly, it isn't really any secret that Paul Quick has made many of the decisions regarding this situation with the consolidation, is it? It's not like he has a close warm cuddly relationship with our chairman as opposed to his warm cuddly friendship with Jack Hall, is it?

 

Okay take a breath Mary. You are the one that posted that you had inside info reagarding the thinking and actions of Mr. Quick, not me. How my asking you that is self serving I have no damned idea, but it sounds good so you may as well say it. What Pauls relationship is with Nick or Jack I have no idea, but if youdo, share the hard info. My point is that the post you made was one of those damned "I heard" or "A little bird" type posts meant to do nothing but stir shit. I told you that if anyone started that type of crap they would be expected to answer the questions arising from it. Apparantly you are not able to do so other than by implying some type of secret relationship, between Paul and Jack. Again no facts, just yellow journalisitc tactics. Oh, and the people that empowered me to ask the questions, they were the Authors of the Constitution and the Bill of Rghts.

 

Ben, let me ask you a question here, do you think it's more important to have elected or appointed reps on the floor? Especially with all the confusion and questions? Personally, I believe that it is more important that we have elected reps. The contract calls for very specific numbers and I believe we should hold to that. The people elected the committeemen and they should have as many as possible to represent them. Do you honestly think we need to have all those appointed reps? I don't mind saying I don't. They cannot write grievances nor can they interpret the contract, only administer the areas of their responsibility.

 

 

Actually I agree that there needs to be, especially now, more greivance handlers on the floor than appointed reps. I also do not believe that we need as many appointed reps as your previopus post indicated you believe we will have. That being said how Gerald Bantom manages his Internationally appointed reps is not something either of us knows yet, or can influence. I also still believe, as I've said here before that rumors and infounded speculation of this type do no help any of us during the consolidation.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Antro

[Spring]

You made it sound as if you were acting in an official capacity. It's no secret that Quick told Nick that this was how it was going to be. I'm not knocking Nick on this one. I am knocking the National Ford Department and rightly so. I truly believe that Nick would put the extra Districts on the floor. I think the National Ford Department is giving him a royal screwing on this just to make things difficult for him. Are you denying that Quick gave this directive? Where is your source of information? I was talking to the reps that aren't going to be on the floor. They were very clear about who gave the directive. Bantom is a lame duck and Quick has been taking it upon himself to make these decisions. Has been for some time. But you keep sucking up to the National Ford Department. It's not going to do you any good. They have no loyalty to the people and fancy themselves demogogues.

[Antro]

You made it sound as if you were acting in an official capacity. It's no secret that Quick told Nick that this was how it was going to be. I'm not knocking Nick on this one. I am knocking the National Ford Department and rightly so. I truly believe that Nick would put the extra Districts on the floor. I think the National Ford Department is giving him a royal screwing on this just to make things difficult for him. Are you denying that Quick gave this directive? Where is your source of information? I was talking to the reps that aren't going to be on the floor. They were very clear about who gave the directive. Bantom is a lame duck and Quick has been taking it upon himself to make these decisions. Has been for some time. But you keep sucking up to the National Ford Department. It's not going to do you any good. They have no loyalty to the people and fancy themselves demogogues.

[/qu

 

Oh yeah Mary, everyone thinks that for all the latest on the dealings of the Interantional you should go to the Ergo guy for "official info". I actually have no damnded idea what Nick was told or not told by Paul Quick so how would you like me to prove this negative? Give you a source for the fact that I don't know and I doubt that you do? Geee Mary what a deal. If your source is the three gentlemen you named earlier then that's okay. They obviously were privey to info that I don't have. They must have been there when Paul told Nick that he was keeping all of the appointed reps and not allowing us to put elected people on the floor, so people should ask them about what Paul and Nick have discussed.As far as my sucking up to the National Ford Department, isn't that a little lame even for this board? "I disagreed with Mary about something therfore I am an evil conniving little shit." Gawd Mary you should work for Carl Rove.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Antro

[Spring]

Did I say you were evil and conniving? Nope, don't think so. But I am very concerned with what we will be dealing with out on the floor on Monday. That's why I believe we will need every elected rep we can possibly get out there.

[Antro]

Did I say you were evil and conniving? Nope, don't think so. But I am very concerned with what we will be dealing with out on the floor on Monday. That's why I believe we will need every elected rep we can possibly get out there.

 

"But you keep sucking up to the National Ford Department. It's not going to do you any good."

 

Did you say evil and conniving? Nope that's not your game. You would rather make the implication without having bearing the responsibility of being held accountable for your statements. It's an old game, well played by masters like William Hearst and Carl Rove. I like the way you segue into your concern for representation, makes it seem as if that is all you are really concerned about.

[Spring]

Did you say evil and conniving? Nope that's not your game. You would rather make the implication without having bearing the responsibility of being held accountable for your statements. It's an old game, well played by masters like William Hearst and Carl Rove. I like the way you segue into your concern for representation, makes it seem as if that is all you are really concerned about.

 

 

Well, I can see how you've forgotten what it's like to be out on the floor in as you make it a point not to spend too much time there. You certainly must not remember what it's like to work on the floor. But you don't miss many meals in the cafeteria, do you? Well, I'm out there and I do know what people are asking about. My only concern is for this membership. Don't worry, the membership is well aware of who amongst the appointees voted against them. Same with the elected reps, as well. Your appointment is by the "pleasure" of the chairman. National Ford can't do a whole hell of a lot to help you there. Just waiting to see who you attach yourself to next. Like a wee limpet or mollusk you are. :lol: Really bugs you guys that someone isn't buying into your party line bullshit and isn't afraid to speak out. Whatever.... just remember that as they reduce out, you go before I do.

[needtoknow]

HA HA! Dude, that means shes got more time than you! Man Spring some of us saw you at that meeting! You really smoked that old dude up there. Was he pissed or what! We all saw he didnt answer your questions. Dudes from Lorain asked who you were and said they were glad you did that. Antro dude lighten up man you take everything so personal. Spring comes on here talking about the international and you start in on her. It dont matter what she says you get pissed. But then you wanna talk about rights and free speech shit? Dude your talking outta both sides a your mouth.

[40anout]

Ms. Spring

 

I’m going to give you a little advice.

You can not fight both the U.A.W. and Ford Motor Company. You need to choose one and I say fight Ford. Everybody knows the international has a awesome contract. They take care of themselves just like upper management at Ford. That’s life, that’s how it is. You or no one else is going to change that.

You seam like you have union smarts and know the contract. Why don’t you turn that energy towards Ford now, then focus your union problems at election time. I was hoping that we could leave this in house union bickering at Lorain and become one hell of a strong united local again.

Let it go man. Someone advised me awhile back to try Yoga. I did it works. Breath in, breath out, breath in, hold it, breath out, breath in, breath out, there feel better.

It is going to get real ugly on the line shortly. Ford is going to want blood along with the sweat. There is no job standards anymore so everyone must make there own job.

Fight Ford, the job you save could be your own.

Edited December 20, 2005 by 40anout

[American Thunder]

We need to fight for our jobs i agree, but you will need representation to do so. We need to force the union to get rid of the appionted reps that we don't need. Your right it's going to get real ugly on the floor once the company expects #'s off the end of the line.

Edited December 18, 2005 by American Thunder

[Powertool Princess]

I finally met "Spring" and she was very nice and very helpful. I like the fact that she will stand up for herself and for other people. Too bad our own union won't do the same. I noticed a lot of the people giving her a hard time are guys or seem to be. You don't know what it is like to be a female working in this place. She has been very helpful to a lot of people and doesn't seem to care if you are 425 or 2000. What we need is more people like her!

 

Spring,

Thank you for your help and for giving me a local contract book. I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to working with you.

P

[Antro]

Well, I can see how you've forgotten what it's like to be out on the floor in as you make it a point not to spend too much time there. You certainly must not remember what it's like to work on the floor. But you don't miss many meals in the cafeteria, do you? Well, I'm out there and I do know what people are asking about. My only concern is for this membership. Don't worry, the membership is well aware of who amongst the appointees voted against them. Same with the elected reps, as well. Your appointment is by the "pleasure" of the chairman. National Ford can't do a whole hell of a lot to help you there. Just waiting to see who you attach yourself to next. Like a wee limpet or mollusk you are. :lol: Really bugs you guys that someone isn't buying into your party line bullshit and isn't afraid to speak out. Whatever.... just remember that as they reduce out, you go before I do.

 

Mary, I am not going to play in the gutter with you. If you want to go there go alone. As far as my not being on the floor you know better but you can't make a reasonable response so you're trying to misdirect the conversation. You are also right that they will reduce me out before you, but I fail to see the purpose of that point. And as far as attching myself to anyone, come one Mary we both know better than that, but again it sounds good so you are going to say it and the truth be damned.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Antro

[Antro]

HA HA! Dude, that means shes got more time than you! Man Spring some of us saw you at that meeting! You really smoked that old dude up there. Was he pissed or what! We all saw he didnt answer your questions. Dudes from Lorain asked who you were and said they were glad you did that. Antro dude lighten up man you take everything so personal. Spring comes on here talking about the international and you start in on her. It dont matter what she says you get pissed. But then you wanna talk about rights and free speech shit? Dude your talking outta both sides a your mouth.

 

 

DUDE, you are right she has higher seniority than me. Feel better DUDE?? If I had known you were that easily amused I would have told you sooner. Didn't know that your amusement relyed on people having more or less seniortiy than Mary. There's a whole bunch, look at your seniority run DUDE you'll get a real chuckle there's tons of people with less seniority than Mary. As for lightening up DUDE, If you want to let bullshit pass uncallenged go for it. However when the bullshit is provided solely to create anxiety or to increase the stress levels in our already stressed plant, all of us need to address it. The last thing we need is more confusion and anxiety and the entire purpose of Mary's post I originally questioned was to pump up the stress.

[Killed Trades]

ANTRO WE'RE ALL UNDER A LOT OF STRESS RIGHT NOW. MARY HAS BEEN ASKING SOME PRETTY HARD HITTING QUESTIONS AND HAS BEEN STRAIGHT UP WITH US ALL ALONG. I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HER TOO WELL BEFORE ANY OF THIS CONSOLIDATION STUFF TOOK PLACE AND ALL I'VE SEEN IS THE UNION STRUCTURE ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF GOONS PICCKING ON HER FOR A LACK OF A BETTER WORD. THE UNION NEEDS TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF US OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T KNOW HER BEFORE BUT NOW THAT WE DO WE LIKE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY. WE LIKE HOW SHE STANDS UP TO EVERYONE AND ISN'T AFRAID TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID. WHAT WE DON'T LIKE IS HOW THE UNION TRIES TO AVOID ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE AND TRIES TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. IF JERRY WINS THIS APPEAL/LAWSUIT OR WHATEVER IT IS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REMEMBER WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO LOOK OUT FOR US. TOO BAD IT WASN'T ANYONE IN OFFICE NOW. THIS IS JUST THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING SAID BY A LOT OF THE CLEAN UP AND MAINTENANCE GUYS IN THE PLANT - UNIT 1 AND OLD UNIT 2. THE STRUCTURE NEEDS TO START WORKING WITH MARY BECAUSE SHE'S GOT SOME REALLY GOOD INSITE INTO WHAT'S GOING ON AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING HER AND JERRY ARE THE ONLY ONES WE CAN TRUST TO TELL US THE TRUTH AND STAND UP FOR US.

[slapshot2]

ANTRO WE'RE ALL UNDER A LOT OF STRESS RIGHT NOW. MARY HAS BEEN ASKING SOME PRETTY HARD HITTING QUESTIONS AND HAS BEEN STRAIGHT UP WITH US ALL ALONG. I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HER TOO WELL BEFORE ANY OF THIS CONSOLIDATION STUFF TOOK PLACE AND ALL I'VE SEEN IS THE UNION STRUCTURE ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF GOONS PICCKING ON HER FOR A LACK OF A BETTER WORD. THE UNION NEEDS TO REALIZE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF US OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T KNOW HER BEFORE BUT NOW THAT WE DO WE LIKE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY. WE LIKE HOW SHE STANDS UP TO EVERYONE AND ISN'T AFRAID TO SAY WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID. WHAT WE DON'T LIKE IS HOW THE UNION TRIES TO AVOID ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE AND TRIES TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. IF JERRY WINS THIS APPEAL/LAWSUIT OR WHATEVER IT IS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO REMEMBER WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE TRYING TO LOOK OUT FOR US. TOO BAD IT WASN'T ANYONE IN OFFICE NOW. THIS IS JUST THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING SAID BY A LOT OF THE CLEAN UP AND MAINTENANCE GUYS IN THE PLANT - UNIT 1 AND OLD UNIT 2. THE STRUCTURE NEEDS TO START WORKING WITH MARY BECAUSE SHE'S GOT SOME REALLY GOOD INSITE INTO WHAT'S GOING ON AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING HER AND JERRY ARE THE ONLY ONES WE CAN TRUST TO TELL US THE TRUTH AND STAND UP FOR US.

 

Was Mary sticking up for people when she was appointed by her Father to one of the very positions that she is belly aching about now, and did things like bring her children to work with her everyday? Kinda hard to represent a membership if you're sitting in an office all day playing board games. She has some of you so snowballed it's ridiculous. Spreading rumors is far from productive to the membership. Do you really think that Mary gives a shit about anyone other than Mary? We are talking about a person who has so many restrictions that she can barely walk into the building, yet she can come to work with her big ass bag of nonsense and walk around all day reading "scripture" from the contract. I've got news for you folks, Mary is the equivalent of a jailhouse lawyer. When it comes right down to it, she has no more of a clue of what is going on than any of you. You are going to make her a Martyr because she asks annoying questions? What has she done to change all of the wrongs that she cries about daily? Nothing. She blames all of you for things not going her way. In her eyes, she is saving the world, and the UAW, yet none of you will help her. It is hard to fathom that grown adults can bring themselves to buy into this load of crap. Do you really believe that there is a chance that they are going to undo all of this and bring back the entire Mariner workforce? Not gonna happen. Even if she does have all of these connections in the media as she claims, although I would hardly call a reporter for the Lorain Journal a strong media connection. Let's face it, Mary is full of shit people, and nobody who matters, company or union, really gives a damn what she thinks.

[needtoknow]

Dude your such a liar. Do you really believe your own shit? Bringing kids to work. What a laff! Shes told us more thats true than the union ever did. Whats the matter she making you look stupid? Prolly not to hard to do. Your just another hater that even if she said the sky was blue youd argue that it was something else just cuz shes doing stuff the union cant. Shes been out there on the lines with us and shes been doing more to help the guys on the line then any of the union been doing. How come you guys cant talk about nothing real and have to keep making lies and changing the subject about whats really going on? You think thats gonna make guys on the line forget about what the union aint doing for them? Aint happenin bro!

[Spring]

And any of your gross misstatements of fact help this membership in what way? Your suggestions for fixing issues on the floor is? You need to get a new line of crap because that one's already been taken. But keep trying to mislead the membership. They will come to see the truth of the matter.