OHAP/LAP Consolidation

[slapshot2]

Dude your such a liar. Do you really believe your own shit? Bringing kids to work. What a laff! Shes told us more thats true than the union ever did. Whats the matter she making you look stupid? Prolly not to hard to do. Your just another hater that even if she said the sky was blue youd argue that it was something else just cuz shes doing stuff the union cant. Shes been out there on the lines with us and shes been doing more to help the guys on the line then any of the union been doing. How come you guys cant talk about nothing real and have to keep making lies and changing the subject about whats really going on? You think thats gonna make guys on the line forget about what the union aint doing for them? Aint happenin bro!

 

Ok, I give. Please tell me one thing that Mary has done that has resulted in positive change for this membership? Nobody that matters, listens to her. The fact that incompetent morons like you think she is so wonderful means absolutely fucking nothing. She ran for office this past time, and made a fool of herself. She got killed. She can come down on the floor and tell you whatever feel good stories she wants about all of the great things her Daddy is gonna make happen, and I'll guarantee you, none of them will come true. They never have yet. Mary Sprongowski is a nobody at Ohio Assembly, just like the rest of us. Regardless of what she tells the Morning Journal.

[slapshot2]

And any of your gross misstatements of fact help this membership in what way? Your suggestions for fixing issues on the floor is? You need to get a new line of crap because that one's already been taken. But keep trying to mislead the membership. They will come to see the truth of the matter.

 

You are absolutely hysterical Mary. Who the hell do you really think you are? What are you doing that makes the work day of this membership any better? Nothing. Running your fucking mouth, that's it. You give Ben shit about his appointment, but why? Are you jealous? I have never heard of anyone attacking a Ergo rep before. I am sure when you start your fucking whining about your new job and begin the process of pulling out your bag full of restrictions, he'll come down and help you. Tell me though, why is it that you are too good to do the jobs that the rest of the membership that you fight so hard to protect are doing? Can't wait to hear this load of BS.

[TruckerMan2003]

As far as my not being on the floor you know better but you can't make a reasonable response so you're trying to misdirect the conversation.

 

 

Misdirecting the conversation is what the UAW does - not the members. Congratulations Ms. Mary - Norfolk needs someone like you. Our president and appointed chairman always attack and lie about all that expose them.

[slapshot2]

Misdirecting the conversation is what the UAW does - not the members. Congratulations Ms. Mary - Norfolk needs someone like you. Our president and appointed chairman always attack and lie about all that expose them.

 

 

She has never exposed one single thing that she can prove. Not one. All the things she bitches about are so unsubstantial that nobody else really cares, except her cronies, which are very few. Factually speaking, she can't provide 1 shread of evidence to prove any of her claims which make her rants politically motivated nonsense.

[Spring]

Misdirecting the conversation is what the UAW does - not the members. Congratulations Ms. Mary - Norfolk needs someone like you. Our president and appointed chairman always attack and lie about all that expose them.

By the way, what's going on with all of that. Doug had someone call and he was supposed to mail me some stuff but I never got it. Did they ever appeal any of the election? What's going on with Ed?

[Antro]

Misdirecting the conversation is what the UAW does - not the members. Congratulations Ms. Mary - Norfolk needs someone like you. Our president and appointed chairman always attack and lie about all that expose them.

 

 

So are you saying that Mary is the UAW??

[jam]

I have only been at OHAP three days, and already can see that the politics in this plant are as bad or worse than LAP! Spring, I don't know you or much about you , but I will do my homework. You seem to be OHAP answer to LAP Al Nielson. That is not good! Al was trouble, alot of people blame him for part of LAP problems.

[slapshot2]

So are you saying that Mary is the UAW??

 

 

Come on Ben, you should know by now that Mary thinks she really matters to the UAW, more so than any of the rest of us. Additionally, any alleged misconduct on their behalfs, both locally and internationally, are wrong because Mary and her Dad say so, therefore we should all jeopardize our futures and the future security of our plant to join in her crusade, to further darken our reputation amongst the Ford brass. Mary braggs about how she has connections within the local media, but is too ignorant to realize that all of the propaganda that she continually leaked to the newspapers did not go unnoticed by the decision makers in Dearborn. When a team of local civic leaders went up north to try and offer proposals to the company in a last ditch effort to try and spare the fate of Lorain assembly, the board room in which they were seated had a different edition of the Lorain Morning Journal at each seat bashing the company. Mary and Jerry Donovan, as all of us know, were and still are the source of most of this news, which rarely has any truth to it what so ever. She is a nuisance to the company and the union alike and is an embarrassment to this local and all of the members it represents within the community. Make no mistake about it, the Donovans have no connections within either the UAW or Ford from which they would be getting any kind of solid information. I am dying to know, what exactly is it that these handful of supporters on this board think that "Spring" is going to do for them that will solidify their futures at Ohio Assembly Plant?

[truthshallset youfree]

How bout we like Spring for telling us the truth.

Aint hearing that from the union.

What yall going to do when Jerry wins that apeall thing?

I just want the new folks that come over to know that most of aint like them 2 thats putting their garbage on here. We just want to come to work and not get it stuck to us by our own union. A lot of folk I been talking to from 425 been telling me that there union wasnt worth nothing and we got a lot of that here to. Jerry got some of these boys on the run and there running real scared. There going to try to confuse you guys that just come over about whos been saying and doing what. They tried that with all the young kids we had from other plants and those poor kids didnt know what was what and now they found themselfs out of jobs. I aint saying Jerry could a stopped the consolidation but it sure wouldnt be as crazy as it is now.

I tell you one thing I been here a long time and dont plan on leaving just yet. I seen a lot of the politics here and at 425. I found out the hard way that I can count on a couple a folks telling me the truth every time. Spring is one of those folks. She might not say it in the prettyest way sometimes but at least she aint afraid to say it.

[slapshot2]

How bout we like Spring for telling us the truth.

Aint hearing that from the union.

What yall going to do when Jerry wins that apeall thing?

I just want the new folks that come over to know that most of aint like them 2 thats putting their garbage on here. We just want to come to work and not get it stuck to us by our own union. A lot of folk I been talking to from 425 been telling me that there union wasnt worth nothing and we got a lot of that here to. Jerry got some of these boys on the run and there running real scared. There going to try to confuse you guys that just come over about whos been saying and doing what. They tried that with all the young kids we had from other plants and those poor kids didnt know what was what and now they found themselfs out of jobs. I aint saying Jerry could a stopped the consolidation but it sure wouldnt be as crazy as it is now.

I tell you one thing I been here a long time and dont plan on leaving just yet. I seen a lot of the politics here and at 425. I found out the hard way that I can count on a couple a folks telling me the truth every time. Spring is one of those folks. She might not say it in the prettyest way sometimes but at least she aint afraid to say it.

 

Please enlighten us then. What has Mary told you the truth about? She has no pertinant information to share. She is a nobody. She knows no moer than you or I. And Jerry? People are running scared of him? Why? He is an electrician. What reason would anyone have to run scared from him? What can he do? Oh yeah, that's right, the infamous Donovan appeal. Come on sir, are you really that stupid? What do you suppose this alleged appeal will produce differently than what we have now? Please, substantiate your claims. Otherwise you are just as ignorant as she is. Again, who the hell is Mary Springowski to Ford and the Uaw other than a pain on the ass? Do you really think that any major business decisions will be impacted because of her ridiculous ramblings? If you do your nuts. I heard all of this crap before the election as well. People like yourself coming on this board talking up the Donovans and all the wonderful things they do, yet they both got their ASSES KICKED in the election. Must not be so great afterall, huh?

[truthshallset youfree]

I aint gonna lie a lot of us fell for the lies folks like you was spredding around but we aint gonna fall for that no more. Its to bad that we all had to learn the hard way but sometimes thats how it is. What you done thats so great for us except try to divide folks even more? Ya your real union!

[slapshot2]

I aint gonna lie a lot of us fell for the lies folks like you was spredding around but we aint gonna fall for that no more. Its to bad that we all had to learn the hard way but sometimes thats how it is. What you done thats so great for us except try to divide folks even more? Ya your real union!

 

Wow, you are an idiot. You should have finished high school. I make no claims of having done anything, other than not going on a rant on a public message board making an entire union membership look bad. This person spreads more gossip than anybody i've ever seen. How can you think that she has done anything to help you? So I ask again. Please tell me one thing that Mary has done for this membership that has made us better, or stronger? Please, here is your chance. What has she done? What lies has she exposed, as you claim? Please answer the questions so I can stop questioning your claims. You say that Mary and Jerry are the only ones that will tell you the truth. What is this truth that they were so kind to share with you? Let's have it, back up your claims. Make me see the Donovan way. What has she done? Tell us the other union officials that did you so wrong? Who were they? Please tell so the rest of us can stay away from them. The fact of the matter is, you have no clue what you are talking about. You stand up for Mary, but make no sense doing it. An unsubstantiated fact is nothing more than hearsay, which in your language equals HOGWASH. That is what Mary spreads. If you can't see that, again, please refer to the last election results. The rest of us can see it plain as day.

[505hpZO6]

Word is coming down that Paul Quick has been at it again (heads up here International UAW and National Ford Department - he's a huge liability to you! He's going to drag you into all sorts of crap before he's through!) and has decreed that the appointed reps from LAP will retain their appointed jobs. So we will have 5 Health and Safety Reps, 3 Standards Reps, 4 Benefits reps, 3 Quality Reps, and our 4 ERCs and however many LAP has. That takes us to over 19 appointed reps. What that means is that 3 of our elected reps will not be on the floor - Bill Samples, Marvin Jones and Chris Ladikos will not be able to represent the membership on a full time basis. We will have 10 elected reps vs 19+ appointed reps. It would appear that the National Ford Department is steering us towards an appointed schill union as opposed to an elected union. Oh, and the 10 elected reps we have includes the Chairman. Now of course everyone is aware that appointed reps cannot write grievances or anything like that. And we've all seen how effective they are (NOT) when they're needed. So basically, they (National Ford) are trying to deny us our voice and subrogate our Collective Bargaining rights by denying us representation. I move that we should withold submitting our union dues and hold them in escrow - similar to a renter's strike until such a time as the union decides to start doing what we pay union dues for and that is to represent the rights of the membership and ensure that the CBA is adhered to (just a little reminder in case they forgot just what it is that they're supposed to be doing)!

 

 

I will only say one thing about the appointed reps, the one i wish we had here is the dayshift health and safety rep from lap. that guy would work great with our ohap reps to eliminate the bullshit on the floor, thats what i want for x-mas and that will make the stay here at ohap great for me.

Edited December 20, 2005 by motherfcker

[fatfender]

I will only say one thing about the appointed reps, the one i wish we had here is the dayshift health and safety rep from lap. that guy would work great with our ohap reps to eliminate the bullshit on the floor, thats what i want for x-mas and that will make the stay here at ohap great for me. 94 seniority makes me a lil uneasy if ford wants to cut back further. how far are us 94 guys if that came?

 

That statement initself shows you don't know to much about the H&S reps from LAP. Basley by far had more expertice and knowledge about that field than his counterpart you mentioned. Most people I know felt that his appointment was a last min. favor to cover a political debt. More than once Basley had to tell him that wasn't how you did business. He was the only HOURLY union person we ever knew of that on different occassions threatened to have another hourly person fired. What the.....! Too much politics at Lorain, and even after we're gone Jack and the boys are still playing it out till the end. Remember who signed all those papers. Good riddance to all those idiots

[Evil95GT]

I will only say one thing about the appointed reps, the one i wish we had here is the dayshift health and safety rep from lap. that guy would work great with our ohap reps to eliminate the bullshit on the floor, thats what i want for x-mas and that will make the stay here at ohap great for me.

 

Robert is the man. He *always* got the job done, and stricly enforced all safety regulations. I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is all.

[505hpZO6]

That statement initself shows you don't know to much about the H&S reps from LAP. Basley by far had more expertice and knowledge about that field than his counterpart you mentioned. Most people I know felt that his appointment was a last min. favor to cover a political debt. More than once Basley had to tell him that wasn't how you did business. He was the only HOURLY union person we ever knew of that on different occassions threatened to have another hourly person fired. What the.....! Too much politics at Lorain, and even after we're gone Jack and the boys are still playing it out till the end. Remember who signed all those papers. Good riddance to all those idiots

 

well fatfender you must be from lorain and you didnt have to play the us and them game when it came to needing union help like alot of us did, he helped us when needed.

[40anout]

Ms. Spring

 

I’m going to give you a little advice.

You can not fight both the U.A.W. and Ford Motor Company. You need to choose one and I say fight Ford. Everybody knows the international has a awesome contract. They take care of themselves just like upper management at Ford. That’s life, that’s how it is. You or no one else is going to change that.

You seam like you have union smarts and know the contract. Why don’t you turn that energy towards Ford now, then focus your union problems at election time. I was hoping that we could leave this in house union bickering at Lorain and become one hell of a strong united local again.

Let it go man. Someone advised me awhile back to try Yoga. I did it works. Breath in, breath out, breath in, hold it, breath out, breath in, breath out, there feel better.

It is going to get real ugly on the line shortly. Ford is going to want blood along with the sweat. There is no job standards anymore so everyone must make there own job.

Fight Ford, the job you save could be your own.

[fatfender]

well fatfender you must be from lorain and you didnt have to play the us and them game when it came to needing union help like alot of us did, he helped us when needed.

 

That's right my friend I am from Lorain, and I thought what Jack and his posse did to the Avon people was the worst thing a union brother could do to another.( and then at the end they put out a letter saying we should all get along, give me a break) But I also know of those who did help. You're also right about me not having to play the game so to speak. If I needed something done, I took care of it myself. If you didn't support the TEAM you had no union behind you. They only took care of their own. I feel for the few or I should say the couple of good people who will lose out, but again, good riddance to the rest of them.

[superford]

Word is coming down that Paul Quick has been at it again (heads up here International UAW and National Ford Department - he's a huge liability to you! He's going to drag you into all sorts of crap before he's through!) and has decreed that the appointed reps from LAP will retain their appointed jobs. So we will have 5 Health and Safety Reps, 3 Standards Reps, 4 Benefits reps, 3 Quality Reps, and our 4 ERCs and however many LAP has. That takes us to over 19 appointed reps. What that means is that 3 of our elected reps will not be on the floor - Bill Samples, Marvin Jones and Chris Ladikos will not be able to represent the membership on a full time basis. We will have 10 elected reps vs 19+ appointed reps. It would appear that the National Ford Department is steering us towards an appointed schill union as opposed to an elected union. Oh, and the 10 elected reps we have includes the Chairman. Now of course everyone is aware that appointed reps cannot write grievances or anything like that. And we've all seen how effective they are (NOT) when they're needed. So basically, they (National Ford) are trying to deny us our voice and subrogate our Collective Bargaining rights by denying us representation. I move that we should withold submitting our union dues and hold them in escrow - similar to a renter's strike until such a time as the union decides to start doing what we pay union dues for and that is to represent the rights of the membership and ensure that the CBA is adhered to (just a little reminder in case they forgot just what it is that they're supposed to be doing)!

I was happy when i read this one from Spring I might not like all the people from lap but i will be glad to have Robert Gonzalez their safety rep here at ohap he treated us all good the 3 times I had to go to lorain that guy wont take any bull from anyone and the company does what he tells them he is for the workers welcome welcome welcome to OHAP Robert Gonzalez or pitbull like some people call him as for the rest I can't speak for

[American Thunder]

I'll say this whoever is going to stay appointed needs to be notified. All others need to find a job and get back to work. There is no need for so many appointed positions. We need our committeeman on the floor. There is to much B.S. going on and not enough Union reps to take care of it. Time for the Union to stand up to Ford and demand our one rep per 200 people. You cannot have six committeeman before the consolidation and six committeeman after the consolidation. Our plant population went up at least 1400 people. I think our plant population has to be at least 2600 or more does anyone know? Right now we only have 10 elected reps on duty. Using 10 as the number that means we only have 2000 people in the plant? How the hell can that be? Give us the representation our Union dues are paying for!

Edited December 21, 2005 by American Thunder

[slapshot2]

I have only been at OHAP three days, and already can see that the politics in this plant are as bad or worse than LAP! Spring, I don't know you or much about you , but I will do my homework. You seem to be OHAP answer to LAP Al Nielson. That is not good! Al was trouble, alot of people blame him for part of LAP problems.

 

Jam,

Keep on watching, and you will see. This loud mouth pain in the ass and her father are the only politicians that we have causing trouble in this plant. She bitches about everything, get used to it. She runs around the plant all day long spreading her nonsense to people, most of whom could care less. If you are lucky enough to be on her shift, you will find yourself wondering why this great union person, as she claims she is, is never on a job. The reason? She is too good to do the jobs that the rest of us do. She has more restrictions than you could possibly imagine. And when they actually do make her do something, she typically will screw up whatever she is doing so bad that they take her off of it, while her fellow union brothers and sisters that she professes to care about so deeply get to re-do her work. Yes sir, a real class act this one is. You mention Al Neilson, well let me tell you, it won't be long before Mary starts to attack him too if he threatens her position as head bullshiter in this plant. She resents that. She wants you all to think that she, and she only, knows all. If you really want to see just how full of shit she is, ask her to provide factual information as to 1 thing that she has done to help this local and the people working within it. She can't do it, because she's done NOTHING. She is taking advantage of the fact that she has fresh blood in the plant at which to spew her garbage, but mark my words, in the long run her result will be the same. None of you will be able to stand her either, and she'll pull her customary 150 votes in the next election. Please though, don't just take my word for it. Ask her to provide you proof that our current union structure has lied to the membership, other than because she says so. Obviously if she is certain enough of her claims as to come on this board and tell the membership about all of the wrong being done them, then she would certainly have proof, wouldn't she? It'd be a bit irresponsible of a person with political aspirations to not substantiate their claims, wouldn't it? She is absolutely 100% full of shit. You will all see this as we have, in due time. Welcome to OHAP!

[Spring]

Okay slap, you provide proof of one job I have had to be taken off of because "I screwed it up". This has never happened. Secondly, I have permanent industrial restrictions. So do a lot of people in the plant. I have always worked within those restrictions. Are you trying to say that I have less rights than others in the plant? Why don't you provide some proof of the lies you're perpetuating. Furthermore, when have I ever brought my children to work with me? That has never happened. YOU need to get YOUR facts straight before you start lying to the membership.

[slapshot2]

Okay slap, you provide proof of one job I have had to be taken off of because "I screwed it up". This has never happened. Secondly, I have permanent industrial restrictions. So do a lot of people in the plant. I have always worked within those restrictions. Are you trying to say that I have less rights than others in the plant? Why don't you provide some proof of the lies you're perpetuating. Furthermore, when have I ever brought my children to work with me? That has never happened. YOU need to get YOUR facts straight before you start lying to the membership.

 

Well, when you were the Erc rep in the Villager unit there were letters on the floor almost weekly about your actions of neglect to the job you were supposed to be doing, either being away from the plant with your kids or up in your office with them. You were seen with them there and if you say differently, you are a bigger liar than I thought. As for the permanent restrictions, yes others have them, most of them however were injured working for Ford. You are different you see because you are always on this board crying about how you have been wronged by company and union, and since you have never actually worked a real job that would result in permanent restrictions, it is obvious that you hired in with them, which means that people of the company and union have been pretty accomodating to you. As for screwing other people in the plant, you are wrong Ms. Mary. It was well known in the Econoline bodyshop during your short time there that everytime you were put on something even as simple as picking up a couple of wire welds, you would screw it up and others would have to make up the work elsewhere in the plant. Which is why they gave you the daunting task of clicker wrenching a few striker screws, because or your refusal to do anything else correctly. So again, you got your way and got out of doing the work that the others that transferred over from the Mariner unit, many of whom had more time than you, were being made to do. Not big strong union proud Mary. Too good to do the work that the rest of the membership does, huh Mary? What you are doing is putting up smoke screens of lies and inuendos with the hopes of getting yourself into some kind of office in the next election, which is nearly 3 years away! You are desperate, and pathetic, and I'll guarantee you, it will not work. You are telling these people that you have something of value to offer, and you don't. Your opinions mean no more around there than the rest of ours do. Deal with it, and shut the fuck up! I have absolutely nothing to gain here. Just speaking the truth, and you KNOW IT!!!

[American Thunder]

Slap why are you even arguing with spring? You are just as bad by trying to prove her wrong with no facts yourself.

[Spring]

Well, when you were the Erc rep in the Villager unit there were letters on the floor almost weekly about your actions of neglect to the job you were supposed to be doing, either being away from the plant with your kids or up in your office with them. You were seen with them there and if you say differently, you are a bigger liar than I thought.

 

Never at any time that I was on the clock was I ever seen in the plant with my children. Keep on lying all you wish, it still won't make it true.

 

As for the permanent restrictions, yes others have them, most of them however were injured working for Ford. You are different you see because you are always on this board crying about how you have been wronged by company and union, and since you have never actually worked a real job that would result in permanent restrictions, it is obvious that you hired in with them, which means that people of the company and union have been pretty accomodating to you.

 

I received those restrictions while working in the Trim department of the Villager. They are very industrial specific. This response alone indicates how inane you really are. No one is hired with disabilities that will prevent them doing the jobs on the line. This is one of the reasons for the saying that Ford doesn't have to hire disabled people, they make them.

 

As for screwing other people in the plant, you are wrong Ms. Mary. It was well known in the Econoline bodyshop during your short time there that everytime you were put on something even as simple as picking up a couple of wire welds, you would screw it up and others would have to make up the work elsewhere in the plant. Which is why they gave you the daunting task of clicker wrenching a few striker screws, because or your refusal to do anything else correctly. So again, you got your way and got out of doing the work that the others that transferred over from the Mariner unit, many of whom had more time than you, were being made to do.

 

How wrong you are on this one. Go ask Larry who was doing the wire welds after I was loaned to Pretrim. Why did I go? Did you happen to notice Larry's hand? I gave up my job to a junior person so he could continue to work. Unlike a certain former union offical who can no longer hold union office, he used his personal restrictions to go to Metal line because he tried to screw over every person in the department. Big difference between personal and industrial related restrictions. I know that the subtleties are evidently lost on you.

 

 

Not big strong union proud Mary. Too good to do the work that the rest of the membership does, huh Mary? What you are doing is putting up smoke screens of lies and inuendos with the hopes of getting yourself into some kind of office in the next election, which is nearly 3 years away! You are desperate, and pathetic, and I'll guarantee you, it will not work.

Nope, but I would venture to say that desperate and pathetic are two emotions that you are intimately familiar with.

 

You are telling these people that you have something of value to offer, and you don't. Your opinions mean no more around there than the rest of ours do. Deal with it, and shut the fuck up! I have absolutely nothing to gain here. Just speaking the truth, and you KNOW IT!!!

 

Nope, not shutting up. Going to continue to let the membership know what's going on. Furthermore, I have a lot more confidence in the membership than you obviously do. I prefer to put the information out there and let them make up their own minds about things. You need to go back to your shrink and get him/her to up your medication. You're having delusions and hallucinations again. I think the ESSP reps can help you out with anger management courses. It must be sad to be so angry and have no outlet for that anger. I'll pray for you. I hope you get better. Oh, and have a Merry Christmas! :D

 

 

Slap why are you even arguing with spring? You are just as bad by trying to prove her wrong with no facts yourself.

 

 

You know Thunder, you're absolutely correct. I will no longer respond to Slap's lies and innuendos. Besides, it isn't the Christian thing to do. I mean, it's really not fair of me to argue with an unarmed opponent, is it?