GM Orion Township seniority workers get screwed

[deflep1]

Both the Detroit News & Free Press reported today that the GM Orion Township Plant will be cutting 40% of their workers pay. The plant used to make Pontiacs, and was closed last year. The union cut a deal with GM to retool the plant for a new Buick and mainly to move production of the Chevy Aveo from South Korea to this facility. In order to make a small car in the U.S. and still be profitable, the union agreed to let the company pay the highest 60% seniority keep their base wage, but the bottom 40% (11 years or less) will now be second tier workers and will be paid $15 an hour. The workers could not vote on ANY of this. If they don't want to return from layoff (almost one year) to this lower wage, then they can sign up to be transfered. Second tier wages were supposed to be for NEW hires and only for 20% max, but if the union concedes wages to get products, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Ford wants the same concessions as GM & Chrysler made, and this was one of the concessions made last year. It was a "small car" provision to try to still make a profit producing compact & subcompact cars in the U.S. The affected workers there are furious that the union sold them out. This is a GM plant, not Delphi or a parts plant. Imagine your local & the International agreeing to this for YOUR plant in order to get or keep a product and YOU have NO vote in the matter!

[lquidspine]

Both the Detroit News & Free Press reported today that the GM Orion Township Plant will be cutting 40% of their workers pay. The plant used to make Pontiacs, and was closed last year. The union cut a deal with GM to retool the plant for a new Buick and mainly to move production of the Chevy Aveo from South Korea to this facility. In order to make a small car in the U.S. and still be profitable, the union agreed to let the company pay the highest 60% seniority keep their base wage, but the bottom 40% (11 years or less) will now be second tier workers and will be paid $15 an hour. The workers could not vote on ANY of this. If they don't want to return from layoff (almost one year) to this lower wage, then they can sign up to be transfered. Second tier wages were supposed to be for NEW hires and only for 20% max, but if the union concedes wages to get products, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Ford wants the same concessions as GM & Chrysler made, and this was one of the concessions made last year. It was a "small car" provision to try to still make a profit producing compact & subcompact cars in the U.S. The affected workers there are furious that the union sold them out. This is a GM plant, not Delphi or a parts plant. Imagine your local & the International agreeing to this for YOUR plant in order to get or keep a product and YOU have NO vote in the matter!

Read up on how Local 23's President and IUAW tried to sell them out( another GM plant that was to be sold), I guess the new shareholders of the Big 3 have fallen for the corporate notion that the only way to increase profits is by cutting into labor. The sad part is this is the institution that we pay to defend our living and working standards.

[Die Wahrheit]

Both the Detroit News & Free Press reported today that the GM Orion Township Plant will be cutting 40% of their workers pay. The plant used to make Pontiacs, and was closed last year. The union cut a deal with GM to retool the plant for a new Buick and mainly to move production of the Chevy Aveo from South Korea to this facility. In order to make a small car in the U.S. and still be profitable, the union agreed to let the company pay the highest 60% seniority keep their base wage, but the bottom 40% (11 years or less) will now be second tier workers and will be paid $15 an hour. The workers could not vote on ANY of this. If they don't want to return from layoff (almost one year) to this lower wage, then they can sign up to be transfered. Second tier wages were supposed to be for NEW hires and only for 20% max, but if the union concedes wages to get products, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Ford wants the same concessions as GM & Chrysler made, and this was one of the concessions made last year. It was a "small car" provision to try to still make a profit producing compact & subcompact cars in the U.S. The affected workers there are furious that the union sold them out. This is a GM plant, not Delphi or a parts plant. Imagine your local & the International agreeing to this for YOUR plant in order to get or keep a product and YOU have NO vote in the matter!

 

 

Go back into hiding idiot! EVery time you open your trap its negative. Your either putting a negative spin on something or your talking about you heard theres going to be a layoff. I've talked to a guy from this plant and he said no one is getting screwed. The lower senority will be able to transfer to other GM facilities and there are openings for them. They are not getting forced to take a pay cut. We have employees at Ford who have transferred as well to other plants and even out of state..., are they getting screwed also??? The union sold no one out and the workers are not furious, I want to know who told you that the workers were furious. Stop making shit up you babble mouth. These guys are bout to get overtime up the ass and they are happpy as can be. GM and the union agreed to start hiring two tier employees means jobs and thats a good thing. Its good for the state and its good for GM because hiring means their making money. SO before you go around spewing negative falsehood get your facts straight. Contract talks is next year and your already spreading fear. The only dangerous precedent around here is whats coming out of you piehole... Lying F***!!!

[TANGO4224]

Both the Detroit News & Free Press reported today that the GM Orion Township Plant will be cutting 40% of their workers pay. The plant used to make Pontiacs, and was closed last year. The union cut a deal with GM to retool the plant for a new Buick and mainly to move production of the Chevy Aveo from South Korea to this facility. In order to make a small car in the U.S. and still be profitable, the union agreed to let the company pay the highest 60% seniority keep their base wage, but the bottom 40% (11 years or less) will now be second tier workers and will be paid $15 an hour. The workers could not vote on ANY of this. If they don't want to return from layoff (almost one year) to this lower wage, then they can sign up to be transfered. Second tier wages were supposed to be for NEW hires and only for 20% max, but if the union concedes wages to get products, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Ford wants the same concessions as GM & Chrysler made, and this was one of the concessions made last year. It was a "small car" provision to try to still make a profit producing compact & subcompact cars in the U.S. The affected workers there are furious that the union sold them out. This is a GM plant, not Delphi or a parts plant. Imagine your local & the International agreeing to this for YOUR plant in order to get or keep a product and YOU have NO vote in the matter!

 

FORD EMPLOYEES!!! take a good hard look. This is why you never give up your right to strike!!!

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

Both the Detroit News & Free Press reported today that the GM Orion Township Plant will be cutting 40% of their workers pay. The plant used to make Pontiacs, and was closed last year. The union cut a deal with GM to retool the plant for a new Buick and mainly to move production of the Chevy Aveo from South Korea to this facility. In order to make a small car in the U.S. and still be profitable, the union agreed to let the company pay the highest 60% seniority keep their base wage, but the bottom 40% (11 years or less) will now be second tier workers and will be paid $15 an hour. The workers could not vote on ANY of this. If they don't want to return from layoff (almost one year) to this lower wage, then they can sign up to be transfered. Second tier wages were supposed to be for NEW hires and only for 20% max, but if the union concedes wages to get products, this sets a very dangerous precedent. Ford wants the same concessions as GM & Chrysler made, and this was one of the concessions made last year. It was a "small car" provision to try to still make a profit producing compact & subcompact cars in the U.S. The affected workers there are furious that the union sold them out. This is a GM plant, not Delphi or a parts plant. Imagine your local & the International agreeing to this for YOUR plant in order to get or keep a product and YOU have NO vote in the matter!

 

 

 

[lquidspine]

Go back into hiding idiot! EVery time you open your trap its negative. Your either putting a negative spin on something or your talking about you heard theres going to be a layoff. I've talked to a guy from this plant and he said no one is getting screwed. The lower senority will be able to transfer to other GM facilities and there are openings for them. They are not getting forced to take a pay cut. We have employees at Ford who have transferred as well to other plants and even out of state..., are they getting screwed also??? The union sold no one out and the workers are not furious, I want to know who told you that the workers were furious. Stop making shit up you babble mouth. These guys are bout to get overtime up the ass and they are happpy as can be. GM and the union agreed to start hiring two tier employees means jobs and thats a good thing. Its good for the state and its good for GM because hiring means their making money. SO before you go around spewing negative falsehood get your facts straight. Contract talks is next year and your already spreading fear. The only dangerous precedent around here is whats coming out of you piehole... Lying F***!!!

Maybe you should read the article before you start typing Die

 

Some recalled workers, however, won't be returning with full pay. Local union officials told members Sunday they had struck a deal with GM to implement a two-tier wage scale for recalled workers, based on seniority.

 

Sixty percent of Orion Assembly workers will receive the traditional tier one hourly wage of $28, while the remaining 40 percent will get about half that pay upon returning.

 

 

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20101006/AUTO01/10060329/1148/GM-to-build-new-compact-car-in-Orion-Township#ixzz11cZT51Px

Taken from the linked article.

 

Not the first time this year our union, yes OUR union leadership has been willing to sell short GM workers

Local 23 shouts down GM plan

Opposition to wage cuts means plant's fate appears sealed

 

 

 

The fight to keep GM's huge Indianapolis stamping plant open reached a dead end Sunday after defiant autoworkers meeting in a union hall shouted "no" to discussion of pay cuts.

With workers dug in, General Motors looks likely to go ahead with closing plans and post a timeline as early as Tuesday for taking out the dies and machinery, said Maurice "Mo" Davison, UAW Region 3 director.

 

Again facts I am sure you will completely ignore Die Wahrheit', IUAW still believes strongly in pattern bargaining. So to think this can happen only at GM or Chrysler you are only fooling yourself.

 

Open your eyes for once, and stop being a blind sheep Die.

[Die Wahrheit]

Maybe you should read the article before you start typing Die

 

 

Taken from the linked article.

 

Not the first time this year our union, yes OUR union leadership has been willing to sell short GM workers

 

 

Again facts I am sure you will completely ignore Die Wahrheit', IUAW still believes strongly in pattern bargaining. So to think this can happen only at GM or Chrysler you are only fooling yourself.

 

Open your eyes for once, and stop being a blind sheep Die.

 

 

Hey Dickhead, need I remind you whom you are quoting. the newspaper. THe same paper who never gets it right. Talk about being a blind sheep. They will retract their story and reprint it when the facts come out. Stop being so damn naive my friend. I spoken to an individual that was directly impacted by this. That is where I got my info from not some half right ass newspaper. Facts my asss, this paper is not known for facts, only half truths. Quit the union and that way you want have to cry anymore when they do something that you dont like. The sooner we weed out you ANTI's the better!

Edited October 7, 2010 by Die Wahrheit

[fastime]

Maybe you should read the article before you start typing Die

 

 

Taken from the linked article.

 

Not the first time this year our union, yes OUR union leadership has been willing to sell short GM workers

 

 

Again facts I am sure you will completely ignore Die Wahrheit', IUAW still believes strongly in pattern bargaining. So to think this can happen only at GM or Chrysler you are only fooling yourself.

 

Open your eyes for once, and stop being a blind sheep Die.

 

Die is a troll .. check his posts out ... as a matter of fact I thought he was banned .. but I guess I was mistaken.

[Cocheese]

. Quit the union and that way you want have to cry anymore when they do something that you dont like.

 

Only if that was possible.

 

But the union is like an ex wife. It makes your life miserable, and takes your money.

[lquidspine]

Hey Dickhead, need I remind you whom you are quoting. the newspaper. THe same paper who never gets it right. Talk about being a blind sheep. They will retract their story and reprint it when the facts come out. Stop being so damn naive my friend. I spoken to an individual that was directly impacted by this. That is where I got my info from not some half right ass newspaper. Facts my asss, this paper is not known for facts, only half truths.

Hardly right wing news paper propaganda here bro, and look at who the quotes are from smart guy *hint* the Local leaders at Orion.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owUjzuVLY-s

 

 

Like i said this is within the past 6 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quit the union and that way you want have to cry anymore when they do something that you dont like. The sooner we weed out you ANTI's the better!

I'm not anti union , I am completely opposite. I would like to see the leadership actually listen to what the workers are asking for and find a happy medium. It is rather apparent people are starting to realize what effect allowing 2 tier wages into our shops is doing. Whipsawing between plants is running rampant, and the saddest part is that it is our leadership that is doing the companies dirty work.

 

You want to hide the truth then play def dumb and blind Die , I however will not I will lend my support to those that are willing to fight for fair and equal treatment of all workers.

 

You want to listen to leaders that where in support of a pay increase for UAW leadership(2010 Con Con) in a period where the workers have done nothing but been asked to give back, then be my guest. Oh ya this after passing resolutions that cut 1 more VP slot as well as introduced a resolution to make new IUAW reps wait 6 years to get full rate.

 

I hear Bob talk on the radio against 2 tier wage systems and then I see proof like the video I provide proving otherwise.

 

It's no fucking wonder why IUAW is so afraid of one man one vote, because then the buddy system would be in jeopardy and they might lose grip on their dictatorship they call a democracy.

Edited October 7, 2010 by lquidspine

[deflep1]

Go back into hiding idiot! EVery time you open your trap its negative. Your either putting a negative spin on something or your talking about you heard theres going to be a layoff. I've talked to a guy from this plant and he said no one is getting screwed. The lower senority will be able to transfer to other GM facilities and there are openings for them. They are not getting forced to take a pay cut. We have employees at Ford who have transferred as well to other plants and even out of state..., are they getting screwed also??? The union sold no one out and the workers are not furious, I want to know who told you that the workers were furious. Stop making shit up you babble mouth. These guys are bout to get overtime up the ass and they are happpy as can be. GM and the union agreed to start hiring two tier employees means jobs and thats a good thing. Its good for the state and its good for GM because hiring means their making money. SO before you go around spewing negative falsehood get your facts straight. Contract talks is next year and your already spreading fear. The only dangerous precedent around here is whats coming out of you piehole... Lying F***!!!

Hey Die, please take your head out of your ass long enough to actually READ the article. GM isn't HIRING two tier employees, the bottom 40% seniority in the plant (that are laid off FROM that plant) will BECOME 2nd tier. All of those affected have 11 years in or less. They don't have to take the pay cut, but then they would have to transfer to another GM facility, possibly out of state. I know some guys who had to leave the state last spring (to Kansas City I think), and they only had a weekend's notice to report. Do you know how hard it is to sell your house in Michigan????? Values are half of what they were 4 years ago. Do you think it's a good deal to short sell your house, if you can even sell it? The Orion plant workers have been laid off for almost a year. If they have to be put on a transfer list and wait, they are still burning up their sub&tap weeks. Some of the workers are quoted in the articles as saying they are furious. We have workers at AAI who are related to some of the affected workers and they say they feel betrayed. Our workers at Ford that you mention DID NOT have the tough choice to make of staying and taking a pay cut or having to transfer. I think when you call someone else a babble mouth, you actually need to KNOW the facts. You embarrass yourself every time you type! (child like spelling included) When I've posted info on layoffs coming, or losing a shift, it's been RIGHT! This new GM information was featured on channel 7(ABC), 4 (NBC) 2 (Fox) all Detroit stations. It was also on CNN and mentioned on CNBC's Mad Money talking about current seniority employees taking almost a 50% pay cut to be able to stay, and if that would help GM become profitable making small cars in the U.S. I'm glad "your guy" at that plant knows more than their local union, the international, print media, t.v. news stations and GM. And by the way, hiring second tier workers is good for the company, NOT for the union workers! I've been posting every week for over a year, so how was I hiding? You have been banned before and don't post on anything for weeks at a time....SO WHAT ARE YOU HIDING DIE?

[Grim Reaper]

Blame the UAW all day long and you are pointing the finger the wrong direction.

 

The bankruptcy forced GM UAW workers into a no win situation. The issue down at local 23 is nothing more than the terms of the bankruptcy. The location was slated for sale (building and operations continue under new ownership) or closure (new company takes the contract parts elsewhere). The UAW did a great job in orchestrating a sale to a buyer to keep the plant open and a union shop (saving jobs). The plant was done because of the bankruptcy; the UAW did a great job in saving work. The GM workers there can continue to work there until there are openings at a traditional plant. If they continue to push a no win agenda the buyer will more than likely dismantle and move the equipment to non union shops.

 

Again driven by the bankruptcy terms.

 

With the Orion situation is a b car production facility. There is no way to produce a b car with our current wage structure. If we did build the Fiesta in the USA we would have to follow the same structure. Again GM was going to take the loan and then outsource to other countries, the terms claimed to build these cars profitably if the government was going to loan the money.

 

These SOS and Labor Notes outlets are nothing more than an old outdated ideal that we just strike and let the chips fall where they may. I am glad the UAW represents us and not these whackos.

 

The only way any of this will change is within our political structure (labor friendly politicians), otherwise labor rates will continue to fluctuate. I do not blame the UAW; I applaud them for the fight the give every day for our best interest.

 

Grimshaw

Edited October 7, 2010 by Grim Reaper

[Die Wahrheit]

Hey Die, please take your head out of your ass long enough to actually READ the article. GM isn't HIRING two tier employees, the bottom 40% seniority in the plant (that are laid off FROM that plant) will BECOME 2nd tier. All of those affected have 11 years in or less. They don't have to take the pay cut, but then they would have to transfer to another GM facility, possibly out of state. I know some guys who had to leave the state last spring (to Kansas City I think), and they only had a weekend's notice to report. Do you know how hard it is to sell your house in Michigan????? Values are half of what they were 4 years ago. Do you think it's a good deal to short sell your house, if you can even sell it? The Orion plant workers have been laid off for almost a year. If they have to be put on a transfer list and wait, they are still burning up their sub&tap weeks. Some of the workers are quoted in the articles as saying they are furious. We have workers at AAI who are related to some of the affected workers and they say they feel betrayed. Our workers at Ford that you mention DID NOT have the tough choice to make of staying and taking a pay cut or having to transfer. I think when you call someone else a babble mouth, you actually need to KNOW the facts. You embarrass yourself every time you type! (child like spelling included) When I've posted info on layoffs coming, or losing a shift, it's been RIGHT! This new GM information was featured on channel 7(ABC), 4 (NBC) 2 (Fox) all Detroit stations. It was also on CNN and mentioned on CNBC's Mad Money talking about current seniority employees taking almost a 50% pay cut to be able to stay, and if that would help GM become profitable making small cars in the U.S. I'm glad "your guy" at that plant knows more than their local union, the international, print media, t.v. news stations and GM. And by the way, hiring second tier workers is good for the company, NOT for the union workers! I've been posting every week for over a year, so how was I hiding? You have been banned before and don't post on anything for weeks at a time....SO WHAT ARE YOU HIDING DIE?

 

Stop it with your second hand information!!! Had a cold beer with my pal that works at this plant, and he said the ignorant media and all you assholes need to get your info straight before you start spreading false info. LIke I stated no one at this plant is being forced to take a paycut. They have 300 workers that are eligible to retire and half of that 300 are expected to. With this being said the majority of these workers will be able to stay at this plant and keep their same rate of pay. Some may have to transfer but hell I work with guys everyday that drive over 2 1/2 hours to work one way so thats no big deal. As far as selling their house my buddy said these guys have less than 11 years and he spoke to the majority of them at their meeting and they have no problem with transferring out of state and getting paid to do so. So Deflep or shall I call you MUD because thats what your name is All the anti union crap your spewing out of your mouth needs to stop. You say the union sold the workers out without even knowing the whole truth. YOu are so quick to jump and post a topic when you hear something negative about the union. Like I said before once we weed all you ANTI assholes out of the union we will become the union that we are meant to be. Who needs the media lying to make the UAW look bad when you have DEFLEP doing such a great job!! Way to go MUD once again you let your disdain for the union prevent you from getting the true facts..

[lquidspine]

Blame the UAW all day long and you are pointing the finger the wrong direction.

 

The bankruptcy forced GM UAW workers into a no win situation. The issue down at local 23 is nothing more than the terms of the bankruptcy. The location was slated for sale (building and operations continue under new ownership) or closure (new company takes the contract parts elsewhere). The UAW did a great job in orchestrating a sale to a buyer to keep the plant open and a union shop (saving jobs). The plant was done because of the bankruptcy; the UAW did a great job in saving work. The GM workers there can continue to work there until there are openings at a traditional plant. If they continue to push a no win agenda the buyer will more than likely dismantle and move the equipment to non union shops.

 

Again driven by the bankruptcy terms.

 

The plant was driven to closure due to the bankruptcy, I can partially agree with that statement. However the terms of the sale of that plant where to keep GM workers there and cut there wages something the UAW agreed to.

They tried to save work but at what cost Grim ?

 

Are you willing to take a 50% pay cut in your facility to keep working ?

Would you be willing right now to allow 40% of the lowest workers in your plant (they stated the cut off was 11 years seniority) lose 50% of their pay to ensure new products less than a year before our current contract expires ?

 

I love what the UAW has been able to help workers achieve, but all that is being thrown away in the name of competitiveness.

Where is the Solidarity in these new deals they are trying to push ?

 

 

 

 

With the Orion situation is a “b” car production facility. There is no way to produce a “b” car with our current wage structure. If we did build the Fiesta in the USA we would have to follow the same structure. Again GM was going to take the loan and then outsource to other countries, the terms claimed to build these cars profitably if the government was going to loan the money.

 

These “SOS” and “Labor Notes” outlets are nothing more than an old outdated ideal that we just strike and let the chips fall where they may. I am glad the UAW represents us and not these whackos.

 

The only way any of this will change is within our political structure (labor friendly politicians), otherwise labor rates will continue to fluctuate. I do not blame the UAW; I applaud them for the fight the give every day for our best interest.

 

Grimshaw

 

Funny we can build the Focus and the next generation Focus here but on average the Mexican Fiesta with added options sells for more.

The Fiesta is fetching an average of $3,000 to $4,000 above its $13,995 base price as buyers load it with extra features such as heated leather seats, said George Pipas, Ford’s sales analyst. At almost $18,000, the Fiesta is commanding a higher average price than the Honda Motor Co.’s Civic compact and Toyota Motor Corp.’s Corolla small car, according to Pipas.

 

*source*

 

So please do not try and sell me the company line of BS that we can not build a profitable compact car built in the US.

You may discredit SOS and Labor Notes as old school outdated ideal, and I personally do not agree with strike on a whim mentality.

But at what point will the leadership say enough is enough ?

When can I expect to see some of our dues that gets used for political contributions put to trying to correct unfair trade agreements our country practices ?

 

At some point even the 55k trucks I build will not be competitive and then what am I suppose to do simply accept poverty wages in the name that is good for profits ?

 

Come on Grim open your eyes it will start with the bankrupt companies and then it will be Ford's rallying cry for competitiveness, its only a matter of time.

[deflep1]

Blame the UAW all day long and you are pointing the finger the wrong direction.

 

The bankruptcy forced GM UAW workers into a no win situation. The issue down at local 23 is nothing more than the terms of the bankruptcy. The location was slated for sale (building and operations continue under new ownership) or closure (new company takes the contract parts elsewhere). The UAW did a great job in orchestrating a sale to a buyer to keep the plant open and a union shop (saving jobs). The plant was done because of the bankruptcy; the UAW did a great job in saving work. The GM workers there can continue to work there until there are openings at a traditional plant. If they continue to push a no win agenda the buyer will more than likely dismantle and move the equipment to non union shops.

 

Again driven by the bankruptcy terms.

 

With the Orion situation is a “b” car production facility. There is no way to produce a “b” car with our current wage structure. If we did build the Fiesta in the USA we would have to follow the same structure. Again GM was going to take the loan and then outsource to other countries, the terms claimed to build these cars profitably if the government was going to loan the money.

 

These “SOS” and “Labor Notes” outlets are nothing more than an old outdated ideal that we just strike and let the chips fall where they may. I am glad the UAW represents us and not these whackos.

 

The only way any of this will change is within our political structure (labor friendly politicians), otherwise labor rates will continue to fluctuate. I do not blame the UAW; I applaud them for the fight the give every day for our best interest.

 

Grimshaw

Grim, I fully understand the bankruptcy terms GM had and the deals it cut, but believing a sub compact can't be produced here with our wage structure is misguided. A fully loaded Fiesta can have a HIGHER sticker price than a loaded Focus. When you have $8000 worth of options on a $12,000 base price car, you can still make a profit. Sharing parts worldwide on the same model makes it much cheaper to produce. If we try to produce a $10,000 sticker price car to compete with South Korea or future products from China or India, then you're right, we couldn't compete with our wage structure.The fact that China and other Asian countries devalue their currencies and gives them up to a 40% discount when shipping cars here really hurts us. Other countries producing products for one tenth of what we can also hurts us tremendously. I don't blame the union for all this, GM's bankruptcy created bad situations, and the union took whatever they could get. I support the union workers, because WE are the union. I do have problems with our union leadership who usually look out for themselves first, like many of our politicians. I'm glad you see the union fighting for you, but where I work, they've cut their own deals and screwed us for many years. I hope we never see a strike, it's never good. I don't want to see Ford try to cut individual deals with plants and get the same concessions as the others, but going bankrupt cut their bottom lines tremendously and lowered the interest rates from 7-8% down to under 1%. Ford still owes over 20 billion at up to an 11% rate, it lowers when our credit rating rises, but it's still a mountain of debt. Ford will try everything it can to put its' labor costs in line with GM & Chrysler. A lot of things we say could never happen did happen. Ford will do what it has to survive, and eventually our higher labor costs, unfunded pensions and high insurance costs as compared to other parts of the world are going to make it very hard to compete. We have to be prepared for some unexpected business choices in our contract talks. We aren't going to get all our concessions back, and if we want guarantees on products, some new provisions might be on the table.

[Grim Reaper]

The plant was driven to closure due to the bankruptcy, I can partially agree with that statement. However the terms of the sale of that plant where to keep GM workers there and cut there wages something the UAW agreed to.

They tried to save work but at what cost Grim ?

 

Are you willing to take a 50% pay cut in your facility to keep working ?

Would you be willing right now to allow 40% of the lowest workers in your plant (they stated the cut off was 11 years seniority) lose 50% of their pay to ensure new products less than a year before our current contract expires ?

 

I love what the UAW has been able to help workers achieve, but all that is being thrown away in the name of competitiveness.

Where is the Solidarity in these new deals they are trying to push ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny we can build the Focus and the next generation Focus here but on average the Mexican Fiesta with added options sells for more.

 

 

*source*

 

So please do not try and sell me the company line of BS that we can not build a profitable compact car built in the US.

You may discredit SOS and Labor Notes as old school outdated ideal, and I personally do not agree with strike on a whim mentality.

But at what point will the leadership say enough is enough ?

When can I expect to see some of our dues that gets used for political contributions put to trying to correct unfair trade agreements our country practices ?

 

At some point even the 55k trucks I build will not be competitive and then what am I suppose to do simply accept poverty wages in the name that is good for profits ?

 

Come on Grim open your eyes it will start with the bankrupt companies and then it will be Ford's rallying cry for competitiveness, its only a matter of time.

 

 

The plant was driven to closure due to the bankruptcy, I can partially agree with that statement. However the terms of the sale of that plant where to keep GM workers there and cut their wages something the UAW agreed to.

 

Untrue statement. The GM workers we never a part of the other than they could quit GM and rehire with the new company or stay at the new rate until picked up by GM elsewhere. The agreement was basically there for new hires. If you read the newspaper site in that area it looks like the plant will be closing and work will go elsewhere. The buyer is walking away and the plant will close. The work will be sent elsewhere over time. The UAW brought their best deal to the uneducated members and as you know they voted it down and everyone losses. Plant closing.......... Very, very, sad.

 

They tried to save work but at what cost Grim?

 

You must know that this was an agreement from the bankruptcy that the b car must have competitive b car labor rates. These rates are below the standard Midwest region excluding southern states rate resolved in the Senate hearings which was $45- $50 dollars per hour or the investment would not be made. This b car plant would not be possible with any UAW plant without that rate. The b car Ford makes is the Fiesta which you know is made in Mexico simply because of the labor rates. Ford or any auto manufacturer can not surviive by simply makeing $1,000 or less profit margin. Again this is a B car rate not the C car and above rate again resolved in the Senate hearings at $45 to $50 per hour.

 

Are you willing to take a 50% pay cut in your facility to keep working?

 

If you are referring to Indianapolis example the answer is yes. The plant is closing, the UAW saved the plant by bargaining with a buyer wanting to keep the plant and hire UAW people. The current GM workers will not be a part of the permanent workforce. Again the settlement of the bankruptcy was clear the plant will be sold or closed. They will be placed at other GM locations per their job security language. They were offered to stay at the new rate until they would transfer to a GM facility. The GM people there will probably turn the situation into a closed facility with the work going to other vendors and no jobs will be created..........Everyone losses.

 

Would you be willing right now to allow 40% of the lowest workers in your plant (they stated the cut off was 11 years seniority) lose 50% of their pay to ensure new products less than a year before our current contract expires?

 

Again this story is still in the media spin zone. I question the original article and they are bound with the settlement of the bankruptcy. This is a government owned company and the investment had certain specifics that had to be met for the loan for investments. I do believe the 60% 40% ratio is true, that is the B car rate for US investment. As for forced or voluntary rates I am sure they were given a choice of transfer or accept the rate. This was the result of the complaints that GM had real plans of taking the loan money and outsourcing all of these vehicles. Again they are bound by the settlement.

 

I love what the UAW has been able to help workers achieve, but all that is being thrown away in the name of competitiveness.

 

No. It was the Republicans who defined competitiveness.

 

Where is the Solidarity in these new deals they are trying to push?

 

The government made the rates for B car production as well as C car and up through the Senate hearings. This was vehemently fought by the UAW as you remember.

 

Funny we can build the Focus and the next generation Focus here but on average the Mexican Fiesta with added options sells for more.

 

The Focus is a C car. Our labor rates adjusted by the government are competitive for C car and above.

 

So please do not try and sell me the company line of BS that we can not build a profitable compact car built in the US. GM is proving that now.

 

Sure we can build it at a $500 to $1,000 profit margin with our $50 per hour rate but the profit margins must be higher to compete. Can you imagine only making $1,000 per vehicle? Ford would have been in the soup line waty before 2006.

 

You may discredit SOS and Labor Notes as old school outdated ideal, and I personally do not agree with strike on a whim mentality. Agree

 

But at what point will the leadership say enough is enough?

 

Again I must applaud the UAW. They are keeping us in the game with our current labor rates and bargaining new investment with these rates for true job security.

 

When can I expect to see some of our dues that gets used for political contributions put to trying to correct unfair trade agreements our country practices?

 

Not 1 penny of our dues goes to political contributions. It is illegal for the UAW as well as any Union. The UAW has a VCAP program that takes voluntary contributions only.

 

 

At some point even the 55k trucks I build will not be competitive and then what am I suppose to do simply accept poverty wages in the name that is good for profits?

 

Keep the political pressure on fair trade. This will not go away unless our politicians change them. It is all of our problem. To siply throw your hands in the air and blame the union is simply asinine.

 

 

Grimshaw

Edited October 8, 2010 by Grim Reaper

[lquidspine]

The plant was driven to closure due to the bankruptcy, I can partially agree with that statement. However the terms of the sale of that plant where to keep GM workers there and cut their wages something the UAW agreed to.

 

Untrue statement. The GM workers we never a part of the other than they could quit GM and rehire with the new company or stay at the new rate until picked up by GM elsewhere. The agreement was basically there for new hires. If you read the newspaper site in that area it looks like the plant will be closing and work will go elsewhere. The buyer is walking away and the plant will close. The work will be sent elsewhere over time. The UAW brought their best deal to the uneducated members and as you know they voted it down and everyone losses. Plant closing.......... Very, very, sad.

The plant was on the chopping block since 2007 so it can not be blamed on the bankruptcies, It was an attempt to outsource more UAW jobs at entry level wages plain and simple and used to whipsaw other facilities

 

They tried to save work but at what cost Grim?

 

You must know that this was an agreement from the bankruptcy that the “b” car must have competitive “b” car labor rates. These rates are below the standard Midwest region excluding southern states rate resolved in the Senate hearings which was $45- $50 dollars per hour or the investment would not be made. This “b” car plant would not be possible with any UAW plant without that rate. The “b” car Ford makes is the Fiesta which you know is made in Mexico simply because of the labor rates. Ford or any auto manufacturer can not surviive by simply makeing $1,000 or less profit margin. Again this is a “B” car rate not the “C” car and above rate again resolved in the Senate hearings at $45 to $50 per hour.

 

I missed that somehow, they used the "innovative ways" language to push this in Orion. you got me there

 

Are you willing to take a 50% pay cut in your facility to keep working?

 

If you are referring to Indianapolis example the answer is yes. The plant is closing, the UAW saved the plant by bargaining with a buyer wanting to keep the plant and hire UAW people. The current GM workers will not be a part of the permanent workforce. Again the settlement of the bankruptcy was clear the plant will be sold or closed. They will be placed at other GM locations per their job security language. They were offered to stay at the new rate until they would transfer to a GM facility. The GM people there will probably turn the situation into a closed facility with the work going to other vendors and no jobs will be created..........Everyone losses.

 

Again this situation was a test to see how far the UAW would bend for the company, the plant was already pointed to in 2007 as a plant that will be closed. The company can still buy the place and hire there own workers, they chose to pull out for now so yes as of now looks like the place will close. Why couldnt they just buy and staff with their own employees ?

Again testing ground to see what the UAW would allow , at least the workers saw through this and they still have their transfer rights without screwing future workers.

 

Would you be willing right now to allow 40% of the lowest workers in your plant (they stated the cut off was 11 years seniority) lose 50% of their pay to ensure new products less than a year before our current contract expires?

 

Again this story is still in the “media spin zone”. I question the original article and they are bound with the settlement of the bankruptcy. This is a government owned company and the investment had certain specifics that had to be met for the loan for investments. I do believe the 60% 40% ratio is true, that is the “B” car rate for US investment. As for forced or voluntary rates I am sure they were given a choice of transfer or accept the rate. This was the result of the complaints that GM had real plans of taking the loan money and outsourcing all of these vehicles. Again they are bound by the settlement.

 

After further research I see where they are using "Innovative Solutions" to claim the right to the way they will handle this plant. Makes me wonder how true the rumers where a few years ago about them staffing MAP with entry level in the near future.

 

I love what the UAW has been able to help workers achieve, but all that is being thrown away in the name of competitiveness.

 

No. It was the Republicans who defined “competitiveness”.

No it was top management, the southern Republicans simply added to it.

 

Where is the Solidarity in these new deals they are trying to push?

 

The government made the rates for “B” car production as well as “C” car and up through the Senate hearings. This was vehemently fought by the UAW as you remember.

 

I am not sure on this one to be honest

 

Funny we can build the Focus and the next generation Focus here but on average the Mexican Fiesta with added options sells for more.

 

The Focus is a “C” car. Our labor rates “adjusted” by the government are competitive for “C” car and above.

 

Competitive does not mean anything if you do not have a product the public wants

 

So please do not try and sell me the company line of BS that we can not build a profitable compact car built in the US. GM is proving that now.

 

Sure we can build it at a $500 to $1,000 profit margin with our $50 per hour rate but the profit margins must be higher to compete. Can you imagine only making $1,000 per vehicle? Ford would have been in the soup line waty before 2006.

 

Ford was on the verge of bankruptcy for several reasons, a major recall of a high volume segment large profit margin vehicle. They also slacked on their cars choosing higher profit niche lineups over long term complete portfolio of vehicles

 

You may discredit SOS and Labor Notes as old school outdated ideal, and I personally do not agree with strike on a whim mentality. Agree

Do not mistake that statement meaning I do not care for these forms of activism, I simply do not believe in striking over just anything

 

But at what point will the leadership say enough is enough?

 

Again I must applaud the UAW. They are keeping us in the game with our current labor rates and bargaining new investment with these rates for true job security.

Job security with the foundation for huge wage cuts in the not so distant future, great we are fine for now but any new hires don't expect to be able to afford what you build.

 

Solidarity at its finest

 

When can I expect to see some of our dues that gets used for political contributions put to trying to correct unfair trade agreements our country practices?

 

Not 1 penny of our dues goes to political contributions. It is illegal for the UAW as well as any Union. The UAW has a VCAP program that takes voluntary contributions only.

 

I guess you missed the millions of dollars taken from the strike fund in 2007 or 2008 to help support union friendly politicians for the 2008 elections

 

 

At some point even the 55k trucks I build will not be competitive and then what am I suppose to do simply accept poverty wages in the name that is good for profits?

 

Keep the political pressure on fair trade. This will not go away unless our politicians change them. It is all of our problem. To siply throw your hands in the air and blame the union is simply asinine.

 

Its asinine for our leadership to be so quiet on the issue, the number one problem to not only our livings but the living standards for all working Americans.

 

 

Grimshaw

 

You did open my eyes to a few things i did not know, for that I thank you Grim

[Grim Reaper]

You did open my eyes to a few things i did not know, for that I thank you Grim

 

 

No problem, glad to have the conversation.

 

I was being repectful and did not to use the word "asinine" as a personal statement. It was used as a generality.

 

Thanks for seeing this was a respectful response.

 

I think the Indy situation was a shame. I know in my heart the UAW would have been successful in increasing the new hires wages at Indy contract over contract. The only winner here is GM. GM will more than likely send these stampings to a right to work state and pay $8.00 per hour.

 

The people that need jobs in the Indy area lost a great opportunity to join the UAW at the hand of misled and uneducated members.

 

Take care my friend...........

 

Grimshaw

[lquidspine]

No problem, glad to have the conversation.

 

I was being repectful and did not to use the word "asinine" as a personal statement. It was used as a generality.

 

Thanks for seeing this was a respectful response.

 

I think the Indy situation was a shame. I know in my heart the UAW would have been successful in increasing the new hires wages at Indy contract over contract. The only winner here is GM. GM will more than likely send these stampings to a right to work state and pay $8.00 per hour.

 

The people that need jobs in the Indy area lost a great opportunity to join the UAW at the hand of misled and uneducated members.

 

Take care my friend...........

 

Grimshaw

I realized you where being respectful bro, I did not take the asinine comment personally. The Indy situation is a shame, the company that was looking to buy them was a local company by the way. I realize people need jobs but i truly believe situations like these two are laying the groundwork for pinning plant against plant in order to be competitive and we both know damn well the companies will use anything to their advantage.

 

The latest from the Detroit News, picket planned on two tiered wages at Orion plant

[Grim Reaper]

I realized you where being respectful bro, I did not take the asinine comment personally. The Indy situation is a shame, the company that was looking to buy them was a local company by the way. I realize people need jobs but i truly believe situations like these two are laying the groundwork for pinning plant against plant in order to be competitive and we both know damn well the companies will use anything to their advantage.

 

The latest from the Detroit News, picket planned on two tiered wages at Orion plant

 

The UAW will negotiate with these plant closures to salvage keeping the work within the UAW. They negoitate wages, benefits and product to be produced at the location like Indy. This is called a MOU or Memorandum of Understanding. In no way is this whipsawing plant to plant. The easiest thing to do is not negoitate with the UAW and outsource the work to non union right to work states.

 

Again the whipsawing is not an issue like it once was.

 

The new name of the game is outsourcing and off shoring and if we can build product smarter, more efficently with world class quality the labor costs can be slightly higher and we will continue to win more and more product.If the UAW cant be competitive then there will be no new investment in our plants and we will die a slow death.

 

Again, thank God for the insightful UAW to protect our jobs.

 

Grimshaw

[skeptic]

The UAW will negotiate with these plant closures to salvage keeping the work within the UAW. They negoitate wages, benefits and product to be produced at the location like Indy. This is called a MOU or Memorandum of Understanding. In no way is this whipsawing plant to plant. The easiest thing to do is not negoitate with the UAW and outsource the work to non union right to work states.

 

Again the whipsawing is not an issue like it once was.

 

The new name of the game is outsourcing and off shoring and if we can build product smarter, more efficently with world class quality the labor costs can be slightly higher and we will continue to win more and more product.If the UAW cant be competitive then there will be no new investment in our plants and we will die a slow death.

 

Again, thank God for the insightful UAW to protect our jobs.

 

Grimshaw

The UAW is nothing more than a company union.It does what it is told with no regard for the membership.The Ford workers who voted no on further modifactions and the Gm workers who said no are the only union that exists.We have no leadership.Now the the union has changed its procedure It Will not allow You To Vote No destroying whatever is left of the former independent union.

Edited October 9, 2010 by skeptic

[Grim Reaper]

The UAW is nothing more than a company union.It does what it is told with no regard for the membership.The Ford workers who voted no on further modifactions and the Gm workers who said no are the only union that exists.We have no leadership.Now the the union has changed its procedure It Will not allow You To Vote No destroying whatever is left of the former independent union.

 

Ah yes the good old conspiracy theories………….

The “union is selling us out”

The “union is getting paid off by the company”

The “union doesn’t have the memberships interest”

The “union only cares about themselves”

The “union is nothing more than a company union”

The “union does what it is told with no regard for the membership”

“We have no leadership”

The “union changed its procedure it will not allow you to vote”

 

Horses!#$.

 

Can you understand that the union protected our jobs thru the bankruptcies, protected our base rate of pay? Protected our benefits and pension, all while our Republican Senators wanted you to lose all of these in the name of busting us and our union. Its what they do everyday to protect us.

The union fights for product and investments in our plants for real job security everyday.

The union fights for all of this and more against Wall Street’s interest and pressure.

All of this in the worse economic disaster this country has ever seen.

You need to educate yourself instead of listening to the uneducated and misinformed

I thank God for the UAW and their foresight.

 

BTW……….. I’m ready to strike. I do believe it could happen in 2011. I have saved my money and as of now I can with stand a 3 month period at $200 a week strike pay.

Can you?

A no vote this time will put us on strike which is fine with me.

[ReDemption]

Ok for all you on here that think it’s such a sweetheart of a deal with what’s transpiring over at Orion. Then you should agree that for as long as we have brothers and sisters forced into 2nd tier wages then so should our IUAW Representatives. Also at any plant with this type of deal, the salary side should be at the same % of them at 2nd tier.

 

I wonder how many more of our brothers and sisters could have been returned at full pay (1st tier) had the IUAW demand that the Salary said accept the same “sweetheart” deal. This would mean that they (salary) would be returning to Orion 40% at half pay. Let’s face facts, the Salary side needs these jobs just as much as we do. Don’t we hear it over and over “we are in this together”, yea we do, so shut up and prove it.

 

I bet that if both Salary and our IUAW Representatives had the same 1st and 2nd tier wages, they would both get off there creative asses and start working on innovative ways to eliminate the 2nd tier wage agreement altogether.

 

Come on guys, there’s a whopping 90% of total vehicle cost sitting out there. Stop with the attack on the 10% and go after the real savings.

 

One last thought, Grim you say your ready to strike, but for what? If forcing half pay unto our brothers and sisters is ok with you I really want to know what you feel sets the bar. I’m not being an ass, I’m really just curious.

 

Jeff Hodges

DTP Body Shop

Box Unit (outer)

[Grim Reaper]

Ok for all you on here that think it’s such a sweetheart of a deal with what’s transpiring over at Orion. Then you should agree that for as long as we have brothers and sisters forced into 2nd tier wages then so should our IUAW Representatives. Also at any plant with this type of deal, the salary side should be at the same % of them at 2nd tier.

 

I wonder how many more of our brothers and sisters could have been returned at full pay (1st tier) had the IUAW demand that the Salary said accept the same “sweetheart” deal. This would mean that they (salary) would be returning to Orion 40% at half pay. Let’s face facts, the Salary side needs these jobs just as much as we do. Don’t we hear it over and over “we are in this together”, yea we do, so shut up and prove it.

 

I bet that if both Salary and our IUAW Representatives had the same 1st and 2nd tier wages, they would both get off there creative asses and start working on innovative ways to eliminate the 2nd tier wage agreement altogether.

 

Come on guys, there’s a whopping 90% of total vehicle cost sitting out there. Stop with the attack on the 10% and go after the real savings.

 

One last thought, Grim you say your ready to strike, but for what? If forcing half pay unto our brothers and sisters is ok with you I really want to know what you feel sets the bar. I’m not being an ass, I’m really just curious.

 

Jeff Hodges

DTP Body Shop

Box Unit (outer)

 

 

Well as I posted earlier I found out IUAW reps had lost performance bonus (like us). Lost their Easter Monday (like us). Must take 10 furlough days (10 days with no pay). Lost their Xmas bonus. Hire in at 70% and do not get to 100% pay for 7 years. They also do not have a defined pension anymore. No cola.

 

I was pissed like you until I called the Region and IUAW and got the facts. They were forced to these concessions about 2 years ago.

 

So I guess they will not be thinking of anything creative if they are leading by example.

 

The Orion deal is a shame but it is the direct result of unfair trade. If you remember the Republican Senators cutting our wages. Then you should remember that GM was going to take the loan and outsource these platforms outside the USA. The UAW stood firm and made sure these platforms were produced here in our UAW plants. The Republican Senators set the labor rates for these plants.......Not the UAW.

 

You seem bent on blaming the UAW for many things that really are out of their control.

 

I am glad the UAW is representing me, providing a good paying job, great job security and a pension for me and my Father.

 

I am a Union supporter............ I will strike if one is called. Nothing wrong with being prepared.

 

Nobody is "happy" with 2 tier, it is what we had to do for job security and product in our plants.

 

Without 2 tier wages we would get no investments in our plants. We would be near the $70 per hour rate again while our competition is at $45 per hour. It wouldnt take long to lose our products. New launches and platforms would slowly move out of our plants.

 

Not being a "ass" but what would you do to stay competitive?

 

Would you strike and demand $70 per hour all in rate knowing that the Ford could not sustain this level before outsourcing every product in the USA?

 

Its easy to claim right and wrong............. Let me ask ................................................................................................................................................................................................... What would you do to get our rates lower to get investments and real job security in our plants????

 

Remember you have 40,000 members to protect............ What would you do????

 

God bless the UAW

[lquidspine]

Well as I posted earlier I found out IUAW reps had lost performance bonus (like us). Lost their Easter Monday (like us). Must take 10 furlough days (10 days with no pay). Lost their Xmas bonus. Hire in at 70% and do not get to 100% pay for 7 years. They also do not have a defined pension anymore. No cola.

 

I was pissed like you until I called the Region and IUAW and got the facts. They were forced to these concessions about 2 years ago.

 

So I guess they will not be thinking of anything creative if they are leading by example.

 

The Orion deal is a shame but it is the direct result of unfair trade. If you remember the Republican Senators cutting our wages. Then you should remember that GM was going to take the loan and outsource these platforms outside the USA. The UAW stood firm and made sure these platforms were produced here in our UAW plants. The Republican Senators set the labor rates for these plants.......Not the UAW.

 

You seem bent on blaming the UAW for many things that really are out of their control.

 

I am glad the UAW is representing me, providing a good paying job, great job security and a pension for me and my Father.

 

I am a Union supporter............ I will strike if one is called. Nothing wrong with being prepared.

 

Nobody is "happy" with 2 tier, it is what we had to do for job security and product in our plants.

 

Without 2 tier wages we would get no investments in our plants. We would be near the $70 per hour rate again while our competition is at $45 per hour. It wouldnt take long to lose our products. New launches and platforms would slowly move out of our plants.

 

Not being a "ass" but what would you do to stay competitive?

 

Would you strike and demand $70 per hour all in rate knowing that the Ford could not sustain this level before outsourcing every product in the USA?

 

Its easy to claim right and wrong............. Let me ask ................................................................................................................................................................................................... What would you do to get our rates lower to get investments and real job security in our plants????

 

Remember you have 40,000 members to protect............ What would you do????

 

God bless the UAW

That $70 an hour all in was before VEBA Grim, so you can throw that number out since retirees pensions can no longer be included in the active hourly rates lumped in with the legacy costs.

 

We have not hired anyone since before 2007(when entry level was introduced) so again the 2nd tier has not even made a impact yet on the daily production costs.

 

True UAW leadership gave all of what you have claimed, until this years Con Con where they got a raise some as high as 8k per year.

The 70% IUAW rep rate is only for new IUAW reps so not the leaders but those just getting in. It's 6 years to max out not 7 as well. They cut a VP as well .

So leading by example is cutting from the bottom of the pyramid and raising the standards of the top of the pyramid.

 

Sounds more like corporate philosophy and less like Solidarity.

 

I am a Union supporter as well , but at the end of the day they work for us not the other way around.

Edited October 10, 2010 by lquidspine