8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We need to start a discussion on the sacrifices we've made over the last 8 years, and the lack of parity with salary workers. I've heard way too many times "Did you get a paycheck last week? Be happy." Or, "Some people don't even have jobs". Salary workers have not had the same attrition rates as hourly, nor have they been forced to hire future workers at a cut rate. AND nearly the entire time they have received raises and or bonuses! Pattern bargaining is DEAD, we will never have parity with GM or Chrysler due to the bankruptcies and wiping of all debit. It wasn't the case that Ford was morally superior to these other companies. The Ford family didn't want to lose the company, which is fine, and understandable. My contention is, don't cry to us because we aren't on par with GM or Chrysler. There's a buzz that inflation may run rampant in the near future. Think before we take what is shoved at us... remember the last round of concessions? we stood together and voted it down, the sky did not fall.. no plants were closed, shortly after they announced millions to retool various plants. The company will come at you time and time again until we stand together. Has salary gone 30% (aprox.) of their careers without a raise? Fuck no! but we have.. Another 4 year contract without raises will be nearly 45% of our working lives without a raise... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-10/gm-chrysler-salaried-workers-bonuses-said-to-reach-as-much-as-50-of-pay.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We need to start a discussion on the sacrifices we've made over the last 8 years, and the lack of parity with salary workers. I've heard way too many times "Did you get a paycheck last week? Be happy." Or, "Some people don't even have jobs". Salary workers have not had the same attrition rates as hourly, nor have they been forced to hire future workers at a cut rate. AND nearly the entire time they have received raises and or bonuses! Pattern bargaining is DEAD, we will never have parity with GM or Chrysler due to the bankruptcies and wiping of all debit. It wasn't the case that Ford was morally superior to these other companies. The Ford family didn't want to lose the company, which is fine, and understandable. My contention is, don't cry to us because we aren't on par with GM or Chrysler. There's a buzz that inflation may run rampant in the near future. Think before we take what is shoved at us... remember the last round of concessions? we stood together and voted it down, the sky did not fall.. no plants were closed, shortly after they announced millions to retool various plants. The company will come at you time and time again until we stand together. Has salary gone 30% (aprox.) of their careers without a raise? Fuck no! but we have.. Another 4 year contract without raises will be nearly 45% of our working lives without a raise... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-10/gm-chrysler-salaried-workers-bonuses-said-to-reach-as-much-as-50-of-pay.html I heard a rumor that we will get a 12% raise at the time of ratification for the 2011 agreement. The problem is we will have increased co-pays, office visits, prescription increases, 1 week less vacation, no personal time, loss of 1 holiday and reduced sub pay and no short work week benefits. So yeah if this rumor is true we will get a raise. Great news 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 How about forgoing a raise to eliminate the low tier language from the contract. I'd be less worried about direct personal gains, and more worried about protecting the new hires since the UAW has new bargaining leverage coming into this next round of negotiation. If not then the company is going to continue to beat you over the head with their divide and conquer tactics. Ford is currently maintaining the ability to pay all employees master wages, and still turning a profit. I wouldn't accept any concessions either. Their making money despite their debt, and their medical care cost liabilities. Their are certain members and departments that need to be made whole before raises are even considered. How bout shoring up the Trades? Them, and the new hires took the biggest hit in the last contract! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 How about forgoing a raise to eliminate the low tier language from the contract. I'd be less worried about direct personal gains, and more worried about protecting the new hires since the UAW has new bargaining leverage coming into this next round of negotiation. If not then the company is going to continue to beat you over the head with their divide and conquer tactics. Ford is currently maintaining the ability to pay all employees master wages, and still turning a profit. I wouldn't accept any concessions either. Their making money despite their debt, and their medical care cost liabilities. Their are certain members and departments that need to be made whole before raises are even considered. How bout shoring up the Trades? Them, and the new hires took the biggest hit in the last contract! I agree completely that all concessions need a hard look. I'm just concerned with stagnet wages, hyperinflation, and the inability of a large portion of our workers to augment their paychecks with overtime. In many facilities overtime is simply nonexistent.. Period. This has been the case at more than one plant. So yes, I see the big picture, new hires of course, the trades and talks of multicrafting. The increases in co-pays, reductions in benifits etc. I'm interested in our wages in this thread though. Am I the only one who feels we've given enough, and it's time we let international know we need raises. Let's not forget also that the folks at international, who represent us, have additional benefits over and above what we have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtpworker1993 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 According to our plant manager at our town hall meeting yesterday is that we still cost the company $6 or $7 more an hour than the transplants. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I heard a rumor that if we take a $3 an hour pay cut the entry level will be hired at our hourly rate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 According to our plant manager at our town hall meeting yesterday is that we still cost the company $6 or $7 more an hour than the transplants. They have zero legacy costs, Non-union shops are not our concern. Over the last 8 years that we've had one raise, has the cost of vehicles stayed the same? No. It's almost to the point where we can't afford a large section of the vehicles we make. Go price a loaded F-350, I know I can't afford one. The fucking company is going to cry poor every chance they get. We have a fraction of the number of workers we had 20 years ago. Do you think the salary people give a fuck what the salary folks are making at the goddamn "transplants" when they cashed those bonus check they got the last 6 of 8 years... Highly unlikely. I imagine they haven't felt bad about the bump in their base wages either, or continued overtime. So don't give me that fucking bullshit about wages in the non-union shops. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louie Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 They have zero legacy costs, Non-union shops are not our concern. Over the last 8 years that we've had one raise, has the cost of vehicles stayed the same? No. It's almost to the point where we can't afford a large section of the vehicles we make. Go price a loaded F-350, I know I can't afford one. The fucking company is going to cry poor every chance they get. We have a fraction of the number of workers we had 20 years ago. Do you think the salary people give a fuck what the salary folks are making at the goddamn "transplants" when they cashed those bonus check they got the last 6 of 8 years... Highly unlikely. I imagine they haven't felt bad about the bump in their base wages either, or continued overtime. So don't give me that fucking bullshit about wages in the non-union shops. Well I don’t know when you had this epiphany but don’t get all caught up in your “raises” rant. The entire product we have now is because of the 2007 agreement and our current wage structure which includes all wages, benefits, holidays, drugs, vacation, personal time, sub, tap short work week, etc. To DEMAND raises now would cause Ford to start putting product elsewhere like Mexico, Asia and Europe. Don’t get me wrong I would love a raise but reality is we have to compete with Asians, Mexicans and Europeans. We need to continue products and investments in our plants to GUARANTEE employment first. With your demands and the cyclical nature of automotive investments we would be priced out of a job within 3 years. Thanks for your flawed point of view, but this contract I will be happy with more investment full employment for all of my Brothers and Sisters on ILO and working in ACH and filling up our underutilized assembly, powertrain and stamping plants. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Well I don’t know when you had this epiphany but don’t get all caught up in your “raises” rant. The entire product we have now is because of the 2007 agreement and our current wage structure which includes all wages, benefits, holidays, drugs, vacation, personal time, sub, tap short work week, etc. To DEMAND raises now would cause Ford to start putting product elsewhere like Mexico, Asia and Europe. Don’t get me wrong I would love a raise but reality is we have to compete with Asians, Mexicans and Europeans. We need to continue products and investments in our plants to GUARANTEE employment first. With your demands and the cyclical nature of automotive investments we would be priced out of a job within 3 years. Thanks for your flawed point of view, but this contract I will be happy with more investment full employment for all of my Brothers and Sisters on ILO and working in ACH and filling up our underutilized assembly, powertrain and stamping plants. You've changed my mind, I think I'll just waive my wages and buy a ticket to come into the plant everyday like it's a fucking amusement park. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 We need to start a discussion on the sacrifices we've made over the last 8 years, and the lack of parity with salary workers. I've heard way too many times "Did you get a paycheck last week? Be happy." Or, "Some people don't even have jobs". Salary workers have not had the same attrition rates as hourly, nor have they been forced to hire future workers at a cut rate. AND nearly the entire time they have received raises and or bonuses! Pattern bargaining is DEAD, we will never have parity with GM or Chrysler due to the bankruptcies and wiping of all debit. It wasn't the case that Ford was morally superior to these other companies. The Ford family didn't want to lose the company, which is fine, and understandable. My contention is, don't cry to us because we aren't on par with GM or Chrysler. There's a buzz that inflation may run rampant in the near future. Think before we take what is shoved at us... remember the last round of concessions? we stood together and voted it down, the sky did not fall.. no plants were closed, shortly after they announced millions to retool various plants. The company will come at you time and time again until we stand together. Has salary gone 30% (aprox.) of their careers without a raise? Fuck no! but we have.. Another 4 year contract without raises will be nearly 45% of our working lives without a raise... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-10/gm-chrysler-salaried-workers-bonuses-said-to-reach-as-much-as-50-of-pay.html your expectation is parity with salaried workers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) your expectation is parity with salaried workers? The company set that expectation. There was a letter of agreement between the company and the union that stated, there would be an "Equity in loss" in regard to wages and benefits. The company has violated this letter of agreement numerious times. We are the first to lose, and last to regain. I'm not asking for a $10.00 raise. But I feel we have given enough. Edited February 11, 2011 by 8yearswithoneraise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The company set that expectation. There was a letter of agreement between the company and the union that stated, there would be an "Equity in loss" in regard to wages and benefits. The company has violated this letter of agreement numerious times. We are the first to lose, and last to regain. I'm not asking for a $10.00 raise. But I feel we have given enough. I heard there was a meeting (rah rah event) at the DTP plant today and word was that the company would like to not reinstate cola and just use a profit sharing calculation of some sort (don't know what) to pay hourly employees. Why on earth would the hourly agree to totally not getting back COLA ??? Sounds like the bean counters realize that they can always cry poor to the annual profit but if COLA returns, everyone would realize if the company is not paying the right amount. Don't vote COLA returning down!! Just do the math on $3.00 (I know it has never been that high) $3 x (40) hours = 120 x 52 = $6240 just on straight time. Yes profit for this year is $5,000 but what if they hit the skids again. Little profit and no bonus but COLA still receiving decent money based on COLA. I would love to here thoughts on this one. I think this is where the comment of losing COLA can be anywhere from $2,000 - $7,000 plays a factor adding for OT in those figures of coarse. Now take a salaried person middle manager for sure who is making 85K and receiving a 10% bonus this year from profit...the bonus would be around $8,500.00. Return the COLA !! Let me know your thoughts?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I heard there was a meeting (rah rah event) at the DTP plant today and word was that the company would like to not reinstate cola and just use a profit sharing calculation of some sort (don't know what) to pay hourly employees. Why on earth would the hourly agree to totally not getting back COLA ??? Sounds like the bean counters realize that they can always cry poor to the annual profit but if COLA returns, everyone would realize if the company is not paying the right amount. Don't vote COLA returning down!! Just do the math on $3.00 (I know it has never been that high) $3 x (40) hours = 120 x 52 = $6240 just on straight time. Yes profit for this year is $5,000 but what if they hit the skids again. Little profit and no bonus but COLA still receiving decent money based on COLA. I would love to here thoughts on this one. I think this is where the comment of losing COLA can be anywhere from $2,000 - $7,000 plays a factor adding for OT in those figures of coarse. Now take a salaried person middle manager for sure who is making 85K and receiving a 10% bonus this year from profit...the bonus would be around $8,500.00. Return the COLA !! Let me know your thoughts?? I agree 100%. Thank you for an opinion that isn't off topic, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who can see past the bullshit bean counters fabricate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALITYPLZ Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 DEFINATELY a NO on more concessions! We have shown enough good faith that we, as employees, care about the company we work for! There comes a time when we need to think about our families and our Union brothers and sisters and their families. The bottom line is, when we give concessions, the Company is going to profit. That means we give, and the share holders get more. Our profit share is only a part (small) of what is paid out to the entire "Ford Family" including share holders! I don't see us getting much in our next contract, but I sure don't want to give any more!! The Ford family and the investors deserve to profit from their business, but need to stop taking away what they AGREED to in our contract in the first place!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) DEFINATELY a NO on more concessions! We have shown enough good faith that we, as employees, care about the company we work for! There comes a time when we need to think about our families and our Union brothers and sisters and their families. The bottom line is, when we give concessions, the Company is going to profit. That means we give, and the share holders get more. Our profit share is only a part (small) of what is paid out to the entire "Ford Family" including share holders! I don't see us getting much in our next contract, but I sure don't want to give any more!! The Ford family and the investors deserve to profit from their business, but need to stop taking away what they AGREED to in our contract in the first place!!! To be fair, Ford hasn't paid a dividend to common stock since June 29, 2007. The stock has had a considerable increase in value in the past few years, and it's been said that's the reason they haven't paid a dividend. I agree though, IMO the well has ran dry on concessions. Edited February 11, 2011 by 8yearswithoneraise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 You guys are living in a dreamworld if you think we will ever get COLA back. It would be nice, but it isn't going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 You guys are living in a dreamworld if you think we will ever get COLA back. It would be nice, but it isn't going to happen. I'm sorry Pioneer, I don't think my original post was clear because I believe the subject of returning give-backs was brought up. I was curious to see that the bonus given out to most salaried employees could be the same amount the company has saved from the almighty complaint by salary referring to hourly COLA. Again, taking from one group hourly (to pay to management). Mr. King himself has said that the hourly have given upwards of $30K in benefits, time off, holiday, OT, COLA etc. A different profit sharing formula could either (1) be better but (2) more likely than not benefit the company not wages. Either way I was merely pointed out if given the option of the 2, I think COLA might be a better choice. A company may profit but still owe a lot of debt. Ford still owes I believe 16 billion. My guess is that the contract will promise the two tier back to one tier which is good for the workers and definitely good for the unions (higher dues amount) at the same time doing absolutely nothing for the most seniority employees. Chrysler payout to management for profit 4% to 16% just announced, avg salary worker will get $10,000 while the top 1% will receive 50% of their base salary. Btw, there is only 26K salary workers while the hourly get paid an average bonus of $750.00. Isn't that nice to file for bankruptcy and walk away with such a big bonus!! I want to know why people always perceive the hourly as overpaid??? Seriously? While the outsiders continue to say "Well at least you have a job." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm sorry Pioneer, I don't think my original post was clear because I believe the subject of returning give-backs was brought up. I was curious to see that the bonus given out to most salaried employees could be the same amount the company has saved from the almighty complaint by salary referring to hourly COLA. Again, taking from one group hourly (to pay to management). Mr. King himself has said that the hourly have given upwards of $30K in benefits, time off, holiday, OT, COLA etc. A different profit sharing formula could either (1) be better but (2) more likely than not benefit the company not wages. Either way I was merely pointed out if given the option of the 2, I think COLA might be a better choice. A company may profit but still owe a lot of debt. Ford still owes I believe 16 billion. My guess is that the contract will promise the two tier back to one tier which is good for the workers and definitely good for the unions (higher dues amount) at the same time doing absolutely nothing for the most seniority employees. Chrysler payout to management for profit 4% to 16% just announced, avg salary worker will get $10,000 while the top 1% will receive 50% of their base salary. Btw, there is only 26K salary workers while the hourly get paid an average bonus of $750.00. Isn't that nice to file for bankruptcy and walk away with such a big bonus!! I want to know why people always perceive the hourly as overpaid??? Seriously? While the outsiders continue to say "Well at least you have a job." Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanesz Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I heard a rumor that we will get a 12% raise at the time of ratification for the 2011 agreement. The problem is we will have increased co-pays, office visits, prescription increases, 1 week less vacation, no personal time, loss of 1 holiday and reduced sub pay and no short work week benefits. So yeah if this rumor is true we will get a raise. Great news I think this is one place the union has screwed up. When we rolled some of our cola money to pay for health care and keep our "no cost" insurance we should have kept the dollar an hour and paid $40 dollars a week as a co-pay. This way by now we would have been paying $200-250 a month co pay with no real loss in take home pay. I would not have to listen to my friends complain how much they pay for there insurance. We have to win the war with the media too not just the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I think this is one place the union has screwed up. When we rolled some of our cola money to pay for health care and keep our "no cost" insurance we should have kept the dollar an hour and paid $40 dollars a week as a co-pay. This way by now we would have been paying $200-250 a month co pay with no real loss in take home pay. I would not have to listen to my friends complain how much they pay for there insurance. We have to win the war with the media too not just the company. Winning the war with the media is the best option for Bob King to put into the contract...If you are listening Bob King. A graduate of one of the schools I attended is a spokesperson for the Big 3. Her quote when asked about how much the Chrysler salaried bonuses would be, the answer given and I quote "the details regarding salaried performance awards are considered confidential employment records." But in the same article all the amounts of the hourly were released. I have talked a lot about hourly comp. myself but nothing that hasn't already been released by the media, but most hourly employees should demand that exact confidential clause in their contract as well. This could only avoid future hang-ups that outsiders have with the UAW workforce. You rarely here of the complaints of the 18% that is supposed to be given above the hourly line-workers rate by the media. Their justification is education. Bob, a lot of hourly are educated!! Or that a regular lower level manager on the line does indeed get paid (for all of you who want to know) 85K. Or the absolute ridiculous amount of moving allowances that some salaried employees brag about when they have to go to a different plant along with work placement services for their spouses. Our union contracts are located in books still not on a computer that needs to have a log in just to look at. How about getting into this century, putting contracts on a secured data base for hourly employees like the salaried have, and avoiding media's questions by using "the details regarding the "Hourly" performance awards are considered Confidential Employment Records!! " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 Look everyone wants to make more money. I get it. And my personal finances are as messed up more than most, but less than some so a raise would be awesome. But face it people, unless you mishandled your money (I DID), have some serious helping family members or such we are not poor. Those of you not getting any OT can feel the pinch, but straight forty is a long way off poor. The talk of raises is silly to me. We have bigger issues to address. 1. Getting all our brothers and sisters back into plants 2. Getting that 2 tier shit gone. 3. more funding for our retirees. 4. Getting cola back If we get those then its time to talk raises. Sorry if I don't agree with your theories, but I'm lucky enough. There are union members on the street and future members not going to get what i have and that's just wrong. I can't talk about getting more till they get theirs too. We've gone though all your points throughout the thread. And everyone seems to agree. I wasn't implying raises and fuck everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Winning the war with the media is the best option You will never win a war in the media when line workers make more money than most people with a college degree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We've gone though all your points throughout the thread. And everyone seems to agree. I wasn't implying raises and fuck everything else. Raises are are short term issue, I would prefer our leaders think more long term. Entry Level = eventual Decrease in pay not a raise Entry Level enventually will lead to lower payed / benefit employees voting on contracts that effect our retirement. You may say "fuck everything else" but be carefull what you wish for , you may get it. In turn get fucked in your golden years, I am rather confident if you actually sit and think about things it will make sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8yearswithoneraise Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Raises are are short term issue, I would prefer our leaders think more long term. Entry Level = eventual Decrease in pay not a raise Entry Level enventually will lead to lower payed / benefit employees voting on contracts that effect our retirement. You may say "fuck everything else" but be carefull what you wish for , you may get it. In turn get fucked in your golden years, I am rather confident if you actually sit and think about things it will make sense. Jesus.. can u read man? I never said that... Edited February 12, 2011 by 8yearswithoneraise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) I agree completely that all concessions need a hard look. I'm just concerned with stagnet wages, hyperinflation, and the inability of a large portion of our workers to augment their paychecks with overtime. In many facilities overtime is simply nonexistent.. Period. This has been the case at more than one plant. So yes, I see the big picture, new hires of course, the trades and talks of multicrafting. The increases in co-pays, reductions in benifits etc. I'm interested in our wages in this thread though. Am I the only one who feels we've given enough, and it's time we let international know we need raises. Let's not forget also that the folks at international, who represent us, have additional benefits over and above what we have. No i can read fine, but contract negotiations are about give and take . You can bet it will take decades if ever for us to regain what we have already lost. Are you suggesting we concentrate on traditional employee wages this contract and worry about the other Larger issues down the road ? Again short sighted if you want my opinion. As to the first question I would say the majority of Ford employees felt they have given enough back in October of 2009, so no you are not alone. Edited February 12, 2011 by lquidspine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.