Why the jobless rate will not get better

[retro-man]

What the hell is going on?!?!? Sprinter, twice in the past 24 hours you have printed things that I agree with! Have I gotten you confused with someone else?......

 

 

Edited July 30, 2011 by retro-man

[Edstock]

The American investor has to carry partial blame for this problem. All the money throw into mutual funds led the way for American companies to have the capital to build/move into China and other countries. Profits rose, CEOs and Wall Street made billions and a little even trickled down for the peons who made the money possible for all this to happen. But as I have said before, all pyramid schemes will come crashing down. Generation X and Y don't have jobs that pay well enough (service economy: "you want fries with that"? Or "Grandma, you need your bedpan emptied"?) to keep the scheme going. It is a race to the bottom. Jobs will come back after the middle class has been eliminated. If you look through history the middle class has not been around that long. The elite want it gone. A large group with enough money to afford a few luxuries can wield too much power. Serfdom living off the government teet is where we are headed.

Sprinter, right on! Except I think you're being an optimist — IMHO, even after the middle class has been liquidated, the jobs won't be coming back.

[Roadtrip]

Sprinter, right on! Except I think you're being an optimist — IMHO, even after the middle class has been liquidated, the jobs won't be coming back.

 

Hey, Edstock: If you believe what you say, then what's up with the exclamation point and the smiley face? Does this make you happy?

[jpd80]

The American investor has to carry partial blame for this problem. All the money throw into mutual funds led the way for American companies to have the capital to build/move into China and other countries. Profits rose, CEOs and Wall Street made billions and a little even trickled down for the peons who made the money possible for all this to happen. But as I have said before, all pyramid schemes will come crashing down. Generation X and Y don't have jobs that pay well enough (service economy: "you want fries with that"? Or "Grandma, you need your bedpan emptied"?) to keep the scheme going. It is a race to the bottom. Jobs will come back after the middle class has been eliminated. If you look through history the middle class has not been around that long. The elite want it gone. A large group with enough money to afford a few luxuries can wield too much power. Serfdom living off the government teet is where we are headed.

Good post mate, I think you're on the money with the wealthy trying to engineer a victory out of global economic tragedy.......

[RangerM]

The middle class hasn't, and won't disappear. What enables a person to become middle class has changed in many ways, though.

 

If the middle class does disappear, the businessmen lose the very market they depend upon to maintain their profitability.

 

There is no conspiracy to devolve the middle class into serfdom, except by those who would make them wards of the State.

[Edstock]

Hey, Edstock: If you believe what you say, then what's up with the exclamation point and the smiley face? Does this make you happy?

The exclamation point is a way of indicating solid agreement with that statement. The smiley is inconsequential, but let's just say that looking at the mess we have today, change is probably a good idea.

 

If the oligarchs have their way, there will be a progressive winnowing of the middle class as technological change will increase systemic productivity, requiring fewer and fewer people in middle management.

 

 

But it ain't over til it's over, and I'm sure the future will have some surprises.

 

My own guess? I won't live to see it, but I expect that 300 years from now, historians will look back at 9-11 and declare that its prime historical importance was that it caused the US to tighten its internal security so much that it delayed the start of the 2nd American Revolution by 75 years.

 

 

[Mark B. Morrow]

The American investor has to carry partial blame for this problem. All the money throw into mutual funds led the way for American companies to have the capital to build/move into China and other countries. Profits rose, CEOs and Wall Street made billions and a little even trickled down for the peons who made the money possible for all this to happen. But as I have said before, all pyramid schemes will come crashing down. Generation X and Y don't have jobs that pay well enough (service economy: "you want fries with that"? Or "Grandma, you need your bedpan emptied"?) to keep the scheme going. It is a race to the bottom. Jobs will come back after the middle class has been eliminated. If you look through history the middle class has not been around that long. The elite want it gone. A large group with enough money to afford a few luxuries can wield too much power. Serfdom living off the government teet is where we are headed.

 

 

I agree with you 100% on this Sprinter.

 

Wow that feels strange.

[Roadtrip]

The middle class hasn't, and won't disappear. What enables a person to become middle class has changed in many ways, though.

 

If the middle class does disappear, the businessmen lose the very market they depend upon to maintain their profitability.

 

There is no conspiracy to devolve the middle class into serfdom, except by those who would make them wards of the State.

 

Ranger, it's no use. Even though you and I are upwardly mobile and solidly middle class -- living the American Dream, as it were -- we are but pawns of the oligarchs. One day the sky is going to fall and the oligarchs will snatch away everything we have worked for. The oligarchs are the masters of the universe, and the truth is, you and I have no self-determination whatsoever. We never did. You and I and all the other members of the soon-to-be former middle class may be industrious, frugal, and financially literate, but this doesn't hold a candle to the ultimate power of the oligarchs. The oligarchs, well, they control our destiny. Don't you understand that?

 

When I can actually sleep at night, I have horrible nightmares involving oligarchy Armageddon.

 

The other day, I stopped at a lemonade stand in my neighborhood. I asked the little girl what her motivation was for setting up the lemonade stand. She said she wanted to make more money than the other girl down the street. I retched with revulsion, knowing that this sweet, innocent-looking girl has all the potential to become a future oligarch. I will never buy lemonade from her again, just because she represents the worst in our society.

 

Besides, what's wrong with becoming wards of the state? History has shown that the state (and the statists) care far more for the people than do the oligarchs. Get it through your head: The statists are caring and beneficent, and they promise a better way of life. A government that cares? What's not to like!?!? All they ask in return is that you vote for them. Is that too much to ask?

 

It's either that, or the oligarchs will get you -- the consequences of which would be unthinkable.

[xr7g428]

oligarchs = boogey man.

 

You guys need to get a life.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

 

[RangerM]

Ranger, it's no use. Even though you and I are upwardly mobile and solidly middle class -- living the American Dream, as it were -- we are but pawns of the oligarchs. One day the sky is going to fall and the oligarchs will snatch away everything we have worked for. The oligarchs are the masters of the universe, and the truth is, you and I have no self-determination whatsoever. We never did. You and I and all the other members of the soon-to-be former middle class may be industrious, frugal, and financially literate, but this doesn't hold a candle to the ultimate power of the oligarchs. The oligarchs, well, they control our destiny. Don't you understand that?

It's the (apparent) total hopelessness and helplessness that some portray that I find frustrating. People have either no idea or no understanding of the truly empowered position they are in as Americans. Maybe in other places around the USA, they really are kept prisoner by "the Man"?

 

I'm not sure how this way of thinking pervades. People are always looking for ways to externalize their problems. True, sometimes "they" really are out to get you, but for 99.999% of the population, they aren't. Like my uncle who's on disability (and the only thing wrong with him is he's too fat and smokes too much), it's easier to claim victim status.

 

Perhaps that's how a person like B.O. could be elected President. When you believe yourself to be so miserable and powerless and your desparation is that deep, you'll grasp onto anything. And as far as I'm concerned, he's perpetuated their misery (unintentionally perhaps), but apparently people like it that way.

 

I saw a lady in church this past Sunday. She's Chinese and been here for 6 years. For the last several she's been attending (free, at the church, no government involvement) English as a Second Language seminars, and is now gainfully employed at the Research Triangle Park. She had nothing 6 years ago when she got here. I have a hard time believing she's just luckier than others.

[RangerM]

YES WE kick the CAN down the road.

We may not agree on much, FJ. But on this we do.

[Edstock]

It's the (apparent) total hopelessness and helplessness that some portray that I find frustrating.

Me too. My father started his last company at 68, worked until he was 80, retired, punched-out at 89.

 

Anyway, this isn't about left or right: it seems that countries need growing populations to have economic growth. Just think what a shrinking population would do to real estate prices, for example. Instead of, say, 18 million cars a year, now, only 10 million are bought.

 

 

But we have seen technology eliminate a lot of "good paying" jobs over the last 30 years. I follow technology closely, and this process shows no sign of leveling-off in the future, with all manner of robotics developing.

 

So, we have a growing population and progressively fewer non-poverty-level jobs, which is going to add to the challenge of getting enough resources to raise a family.

 

A child born in 2010, who gets decent food and health care could easily live to 2090, and will be family-creating by 2030 as jobs keep disappearing . . . and those kids could live to 2120 or so. Sumbitch.

 

 

[RangerM]

Me too. My father started his last company at 68, worked until he was 80, retired, punched-out at 89.

Kudos to your Dad. Little doubt your Dad kept his marbles (most of them, anyway) all the way until his death. Keeping your mind occupied is the key to staying young at heart, and long in years. My grandfather recently died at 97. Other than his hearing, he was all there. (Sudoku puzzles were his favorite)

Anyway, this isn't about left or right: it seems that countries need growing populations to have economic growth. Just think what a shrinking population would do to real estate prices, for example. Instead of, say, 18 million cars a year, now, only 10 million are bought.

 

But we have seen technology eliminate a lot of "good paying" jobs over the last 30 years. I follow technology closely, and this process shows no sign of leveling-off in the future, with all manner of robotics developing.

 

So, we have a growing population and progressively fewer non-poverty-level jobs, which is going to add to the challenge of getting enough resources to raise a family.

 

A child born in 2010, who gets decent food and health care could easily live to 2090, and will be family-creating by 2030 as jobs keep disappearing . . . and those kids could live to 2120 or so. Sumbitch.

Unfortunately (on the other end), population "collapse" (for lack of a better term) is what turns social-welfare programs into de facto ponzi schemes.

 

European countries have tried to mitigate the lack of population growth by importing their populations (notably from Asia/Africa). This, in part, has lead to the problems they've faced with the immigrants not melding with the native population, and the natives (from what I understand) not really accepting them as fellow countrymen.

 

One thing our future adults have going for them is the acceptance of (and comfort with) ever-changing technology. This could make them more able to cope with changing times in ways their parents generation could not. We can only hope so, anyway.

Edited August 2, 2011 by RangerM

[lfeg]

One of our big problems is that due to political considerations, the US would rather export food, fuel, technology, and raw materials and import manufactured goods rather than manufacture finished goods. Case in point is the trade agreement with Vietnam that is close to being wrapped up. It will allow corporations in the US more favorable terms to export the above items, while allowing retailers access to more low cost manufactured goods. We have a trade policy (if you can call that conglomeration of haphazard regulations, exemptions, and special cases a policy) that is shaped more by monetary contributions to political parties and individual politicians than by conditions in the US and other nations. If you leave the technology out, we are going back to colonial times in which we were a source of raw materials and a market for finished goods. Seems we have gone full circle. Sure, there are opportunities, but only in some areas, and then, only until lower cost alternatives are not competing with us.

 

What it all comes down to is that we have no trade policy, no energy policy, no industrial policy, and really no technology policy. The only policy we have is that if the proper amount of money is contributed to the proper political organization and/or individuals, you can get what you want.

[sprinter]

The wealthy are getting a little fearful: $230,000 for a guard dog?

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/151837/$230%2C000_for_a_guard_dog:_why_the_wealthy_are_afraid_of_violence_from_below/?page=1

[retro-man]

LINK

 

"I mentioned the dollars first because we're much more focused on the dollars that the savings will create, than the number of heads," Goldman's CFO David Viniar told analysts on a conference call in July.

 

Of course they are.

[xr7g428]

Retro, what can we, (make it more to the point: you and I and the readers here) do personally, that will change the direction of the country? I am so sick of hearing "they" need to do something.

 

How can we create jobs for the 50 year old displaced (meaning: replaced by 20 something for less money) workers?

 

All we have left is our wits. Surely we are smart enough to figure this one out...

[lfeg]

Retro, what can we, (make it more to the point: you and I and the readers here) do personally, that will change the direction of the country? I am so sick of hearing "they" need to do something.

 

How can we create jobs for the 50 year old displaced (meaning: replaced by 20 something for less money) workers?

 

All we have left is our wits. Surely we are smart enough to figure this one out...

 

It is not easy. It takes time and effort.

First is to vote smart. Ignore the hype and labels, and most importantly, get those you know to do the same. Do not fall for the promise of "I will give everyone what they want".

Second is to get involved in government. Start on the local level. Get to know your councilpeople, trustees, mayor, whatever, personally. Get involved - if a seat is open on some board or committee, put your name in the hat. This is volunteer stuff on the local level, but it is vital if you are to have s smooth running efficient local government. Hey, once I got a cheap pen for serving several months on a review commission, but I got an inside view of how and why cities do things the way they do, and I met some experts in that field that have been trying to improve things.

Third is to get to know your state reps. Take a vacation day sometime and get to your statehouse, and sit in on some committee meetings. Even testify if you have something to add. This really gives you an idea how things work there. And you can make a difference, even if it is slight.

Fourth is put your money where your mouth is. I will not buy shoes made in Asia. Period. There are a few domestic companies that make shoes, search them out. Buy local. I will not buy Mexican produce. I shop at stores that buy from local farms whenever items are in season. If you believe that unions are good, buy union. Whenever you can, buy things made in the US or Canada, or in countries that have living standards you would want to live in. Not easy, and you do not get the "lowest price every day" , but it makes me feel better.

 

Results are not immediate, but if enough of us do this long enough, at least change will start. It took 40 or so years for us to get into this mess.

[Edstock]

Bill Bonner, of The Daily Reckoning

 

The Great Correction…5 years On, Part III

 

Of course, it should be obvious to everyone by now that the real problem in Europe as well as America is debt. In Europe, government debt is a problem. In America there is government debt plus household debt. Both are problems. America has about as much government debt as France – about 5 times GDP when you include unfunded pensions and health care costs. But America also has huge household debts.

 

From a low of 31% of GDP after WWII, private debt rose to about 300% at the top of the credit bubble. You know all about that, so I won't bore you with the details. But at the present rate – about 5% per year – it will take another

32 years

of de-leveraging before debt is down to a more comfortable level.

 

Ouch.

 

http://dailyreckonin...rs-on-part-iii/

[xr7g428]

Edstock, Get the gun out of your mouth and stop listening to people who make a living by scare mongering. There are no citations to back up any of the numbers. You are old enough to remember how we were all doomed by Y2K, Several different versions of bird flu, the population bomb and so on. Get out side, give your head a shake and breathe in some air. Remember: on the internet, there is no obligation to the truth, only traffic.

[sprinter]

Edstock, Get the gun out of your mouth and stop listening to people who make a living by scare mongering. There are no citations to back up any of the numbers. You are old enough to remember how we were all doomed by Y2K, Several different versions of bird flu, the population bomb and so on. Get out side, give your head a shake and breathe in some air. Remember: on the internet, there is no obligation to the truth, only traffic.

 

Maybe get your head out of your you know what and think. It's pretty obvious the $hit is going to hit the fan, but when is not clear. The US and Greece are on the same track. We just have the 'worlds reserve currency' that is our temporary life preserver. A few other countries are working to change that. It will be the end of the dollar and very well could start WWIII. But you could also set back and day dream and get caught with your pants down.

 

Despite the back-patting that many Congressmen are giving themselves as a result of the so-called Budget Control Act of 2011, former U.S. Comptroller General David Walker contends that the United States is still only three years away from becoming Greece. Walker told CNBC, “We are less than three years away from where Greece had its debt crisis as to where they were from debt to GDP.”

 

Walker’s assertions are similar to those made by GOP presidential contender Ron Paul in June, who predicts that the status of the United States dollar as the reserve currency of the world will end sooner than 25 years and that America is soon to face a financial crisis significantly worse than that of 2008.

 

“The U.S. has defaulted multiple times in its history,” Dr. Paul explained. “Those in CDs will get cheated because of the value loss in the US dollar.”

 

Paul predicts the anger in Greece will happen in America, as people discover that government promises will go unfulfilled. Young people in particular will grow increasingly angered at their limited prospects in a staggered economy.

 

Like Paul, who warns against the Federal Reserve’s practice of printing money and its other detrimental monetary policies, Walker said, “We are not exempt from a debt crisis. We’re never going to default, because we can print money. At the same point in time, we have serious interest rate risk, we have serious currency risk, we have serious inflation risk over time. If it happens, it will be sudden and it will be very painful.”

 

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/8447-former-us-comptroller-general-warns-america-faces-greece-like-crisis

[Edstock]

Edstock, Get the gun out of your mouth and stop listening to people who make a living by scare mongering. There are no citations to back up any of the numbers. You are old enough to remember how we were all doomed by Y2K, Several different versions of bird flu, the population bomb and so on. Get out side, give your head a shake and breathe in some air. Remember: on the internet, there is no obligation to the truth, only traffic.

XR, you're entitled to your opinion, but, from their track record, Mssrs. Bonner and Wiggins know much more than you do.

 

They don't really "scare monger", they don't have to, because the reality is scary enough, but you would have to remove head from orifice to perceive it. You should be perceptive enough to realize that Bonner's editorial was aimed at his regular readers — who are already well acquainted with the "numbers", lol, but I guess not.

 

 

 

[xr7g428]

Really? They are telling people that Obama took "a car equipped to launch a nuclear missile" to India along with a 3000 person entourage.

 

What these guys know is how to make a lot of money from gullible people. But heck, it is a free country, you can put the gun back in your mouth now.

[Trimdingman]

Start at the bottom and work up. There is famine in Africa. There is civil war in the Middle East. There is rioting in Europe. There is high unemployment in the U.S. It is getting progressively worse, like the Titanic slowly but surely sinking. There is no way to turn it around outside of WWIII. Nuclear Armageddon is not exactly a real choice; more like jumping off a burning sky scraper.