pmooret Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 All we heard about in these negotiations was getting down the hourly labor cost to keep the company competitive and naturally this burden was yours. If labor cost were the only factor in determining a company's profit then that could have been accompolished by Bill Ford and he could have saved a lot of money by not hiring Mulally. So apparently this burden is not yours. (Mulally also demanded use of the company jet for personal use by he and his family members as a part of his benefit package when he was hired.) But labor is not the only cost to a company, it may be the only fixed cost but not the only cost, and I'm sure everybody can name several. There are other contributing factors and one of them is the salaried employees wages. Why is it that you never see their hourly cost compared to other companies? If the company has promised more transparency then they can start with this. I'd like to see salaried wages compared to other companies, after all they put ours out there all the time for the viewing public to see. Is there a double standard here? Why should we agree to concessions without knowing if their pay is competitive? If they want us to look at the big picture the picture has to be available to view. I'd like to know how the negotiators looked at the big picture if they don't have all the facts. I believe the only picture they saw was the one with more dues paying members and they definitely didn't see a picture of retirees. The only burden I'm willing to carry is that of my fat ass to the polls for a NO vote. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0824sgt Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well said. I'm with ya on that.... I see daily about a million $ in salary stand around and be critical and condescending towards every hourly employee in sight. Then I think , " is that value added??" My answer is no, not really. None of them are doing anything to rectify the problem at hand or move those parts down the line... I only need one of them and that's to pay me and get outta the way..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Shooter Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Well said. I'm with ya on that.... I see daily about a million $ in salary stand around and be critical and condescending towards every hourly employee in sight. Then I think , " is that value added??" My answer is no, not really. None of them are doing anything to rectify the problem at hand or move those parts down the line... I only need one of them and that's to pay me and get outta the way..... I just recently read that hourly wages with overtime are higher per year on average at Ford than salaried wages. Plus, our benefit package is way better than salaried. We think salaried get more but we actually do. Edited October 10, 2011 by Sharp Shooter 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmeuaw Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Well said. I'm with ya on that.... I see daily about a million $ in salary stand around and be critical and condescending towards every hourly employee in sight. Then I think , " is that value added??" My answer is no, not really. None of them are doing anything to rectify the problem at hand or move those parts down the line... I only need one of them and that's to pay me and get outta the way..... Half of salary will lose their jobs when the team leaders are added for every 10 workers good bye line supervisor,now u know how we feel soon.Busting your butts off ,running to every breakdown,get yell out for no reason or fault of you,also they won't need alot of middle management either so I suggest you get off this site and stop pushing this new contract ,u mite be pushing yourself out the door.I think they cut middle manage first because they get paid more :just like 1st tier people,their phasing out.Just Saying ,do you really trust Ford and you don't have a union ,so be prepare to have security guards escort you out the door. Edited October 10, 2011 by itsmeuaw 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmeuaw Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I just recently read that hourly wages with overtime are higher per year on average at Ford than salaried wages. Plus, our benefit package is way better than salaried. We think salaried get more but we actually do. Just saying how come hourly got a cap on profit salary and salaries does't and we have to paid 10 percent to veba from our profit sharing checks and you do not and you still owe us for 3rd of it!We had agreement when we took over VEBA remember IUAW in money paid into ,before we took it from them,can you tell them ,show me the money. Edited October 10, 2011 by itsmeuaw 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well said. I'm with ya on that.... I see daily about a million $ in salary stand around and be critical and condescending towards every hourly employee in sight. Then I think , " is that value added??" My answer is no, not really. None of them are doing anything to rectify the problem at hand or move those parts down the line... I only need one of them and that's to pay me and get outta the way..... And a lot of times they can't even get the pay right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Shooter Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just saying how come hourly got a cap on profit salary and salaries does't and we have to paid 10 percent to veba from our profit sharing checks and you do not and you still owe us for 3rd of it!We had agreement when we took over VEBA remember IUAW in money paid into ,before we took it from them,can you tell them ,show me the money. You are wrong again, Chucky. There is no cap on profit sharing. If you had a job at Ford, you would be shown the money, but you haven't worked here in awhile. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 You are wrong again, Chucky. There is no cap on profit sharing. If you had a job at Ford, you would be shown the money, but you haven't worked here in awhile. You really need to read the white pages of this proposed agreement. There is a 12,000 cap on our profit sharing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Shooter Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 You really need to read the white pages of this proposed agreement. There is a 12,000 cap on our profit sharing. Bodette, you really like making things up. I have read it. There is no 12000 cap on profit sharing. You can make more or less based on the Company's profits and hours worked. If you don't understand this time, I can get a Special Ed teacher to explain it to you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Bodette, you really like making things up. I have read it. There is no 12000 cap on profit sharing. You can make more or less based on the Company's profits and hours worked. If you don't understand this time, I can get a Special Ed teacher to explain it to you. If its the same teacher that taught you I will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO_Driver Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Bodette, you really like making things up. I have read it. There is no 12000 cap on profit sharing. You can make more or less based on the Company's profits and hours worked. If you don't understand this time, I can get a Special Ed teacher to explain it to you. Are you sure there's a Special Ed teacher capable of doing that???? Explain it to him??? Really?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 When I wrote this thread when I referred to salaried people I intended for that to include corporate too but omitted to clarify. I meant everyone other than hourly to be included in this comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonunion slug Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 When I wrote this thread when I referred to salaried people I intended for that to include corporate too but omitted to clarify. I meant everyone other than hourly to be included in this comparison. Well, it's hard to compare hourly to management and it is much easier to compare hourly to regular salaried workers. We are both "workers" and not in management positions. Since the number of management is rather minimal compared to hourly, you can't begin to compare. Your jobs are extremely different from each other, whereas, with salaried employees, a case can be made that we are very similar. So, it is relevant to compare hourly workers pay and benefits to regular salaried workers pay and benefits and hourly win hands down in both pay (with OT) and have a major advantage when it comes to benefits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmooret Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 In this thread we are not comparing hourly and salary to each other. We are comparing Ford hourly wage/benefit to our competitors hourly wage/benefit. And we would like to compare Ford salaried wage/benefit to our competitors salaried wage/benefit. Ford is always crying that they need to reduce our salary/benefit to keep them more competitive. But if the salaried wage/benefit is higher than our competitors it would be a hard sell to the union because our comeback would be that they need to clean up their own house first. Thing is nobody knows what those figures are for salaried workers at any auto plant! However, since the company is promising more transparency in the profit sharing formula maybe they can extend that transparency to reveal their salaries versus their competitors salaries!! After all they are a publicly traded company. The shareholders might want to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 In this thread we are not comparing hourly and salary to each other. We are comparing Ford hourly wage/benefit to our competitors hourly wage/benefit. And we would like to compare Ford salaried wage/benefit to our competitors salaried wage/benefit. Ford is always crying that they need to reduce our salary/benefit to keep them more competitive. But if the salaried wage/benefit is higher than our competitors it would be a hard sell to the union because our comeback would be that they need to clean up their own house first. Thing is nobody knows what those figures are for salaried workers at any auto plant! However, since the company is promising more transparency in the profit sharing formula maybe they can extend that transparency to reveal their salaries versus their competitors salaries!! After all they are a publicly traded company. The shareholders might want to know. From my experience it differs. I have friends who have left for Mazda, Nissan, and Hyundai salaried positions for more money. Nissan paid much better but also had much more turnover. The Mazda guy left and came back to Ford and the Hyundai guy has has stayed put. With the salaried folks, you need to compare across industries as well. Ford salaried should be compared against salaried for Ely Lily, 3M, P&G, and other companies based on job roles. UAW Ford should be compared against other auto workers, but also the steel industry, Boeing, Catepillar, and anyone else in assembly line work. On a side note, it is not uncommon for American upper management to earn more than their bosses in Japan. I've read there are many American management workers in Toyota that make more than their CEO. The key question to look at is turnover without buyouts. How many hourly workers are leaving for other positions without buyouts? How many salaried? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Real? Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 From my experience it differs. I have friends who have left for Mazda, Nissan, and Hyundai salaried positions for more money. Nissan paid much better but also had much more turnover. The Mazda guy left and came back to Ford and the Hyundai guy has has stayed put. With the salaried folks, you need to compare across industries as well. Ford salaried should be compared against salaried for Ely Lily, 3M, P&G, and other companies based on job roles. UAW Ford should be compared against other auto workers, but also the steel industry, Boeing, Catepillar, and anyone else in assembly line work. On a side note, it is not uncommon for American upper management to earn more than their bosses in Japan. I've read there are many American management workers in Toyota that make more than their CEO. The key question to look at is turnover without buyouts. How many hourly workers are leaving for other positions without buyouts? How many salaried? Marginal, we have been compared to other auto workers and we come out on top in pay and benefits. We still have the highest benefit and labor rate. We just have some dumb asses who have their head in their ass and deny the truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0824sgt Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 It happened yesterday and I was thinking of my post in this thread . Major breakdown , there was an area manager, superintendent,MPS, 2 line supers all standing there watching. Hands in their pockets saying " how could this have been avoided?" That's what they offered up... So I added it up in my mind... Yep I will assume that's close to a million in salary. With car programs , bonuses, options, matching 401, and salary and not one of them got the line up and running, my partner and I did.... After it was done not one said anything about how a problem was lessened by our hard work and sweat. I dont want an atta boy but zero acknowledgement only reaffirms the way I feel and how I'm goin to vote. The company keeps their salaries secret for a reason , so we don't truly know what they make. Unlike our salaries that are our out for the world to see and be critical of.. I also read and understand there is a $12,000 cap on profit share.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0824sgt Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Dislike my comment all u want, but it sure looked like they all had nothing better to do for 45 minutes except stand there and make sure we did our job... They should be doin what they're supposed to be doing. I'm sure there is a reason they're here and none of them was my boss so their jobs are not to watch me for the duration of my job.... Id have no complaint If its just the line supervisor...... Just like our TENTATIVE agreement states, a FULL UTILIZATION of the workforce, or is it just the hourly workforce. If they're paying all those people to stand there and watch me, then their priorities are all backwards... Most of those positions were filled after they cut the hourly workforce numbers... They have an area manager that nobody wants to deal with ,hourly or management, they give him a title and just allow him to be... No power to even make decisions anymore, they took that from him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonunion slug Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 From my experience it differs. I have friends who have left for Mazda, Nissan, and Hyundai salaried positions for more money. Nissan paid much better but also had much more turnover. The Mazda guy left and came back to Ford and the Hyundai guy has has stayed put. With the salaried folks, you need to compare across industries as well. Ford salaried should be compared against salaried for Ely Lily, 3M, P&G, and other companies based on job roles. UAW Ford should be compared against other auto workers, but also the steel industry, Boeing, Catepillar, and anyone else in assembly line work. On a side note, it is not uncommon for American upper management to earn more than their bosses in Japan. I've read there are many American management workers in Toyota that make more than their CEO. The key question to look at is turnover without buyouts. How many hourly workers are leaving for other positions without buyouts? How many salaried? Management may get buyouts, but General Salaried Roll do not. We either retire or quit or get fired. We don't get money to leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Shooter Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 From my experience it differs. I have friends who have left for Mazda, Nissan, and Hyundai salaried positions for more money. Nissan paid much better but also had much more turnover. The Mazda guy left and came back to Ford and the Hyundai guy has has stayed put. With the salaried folks, you need to compare across industries as well. Ford salaried should be compared against salaried for Ely Lily, 3M, P&G, and other companies based on job roles. UAW Ford should be compared against other auto workers, but also the steel industry, Boeing, Catepillar, and anyone else in assembly line work. On a side note, it is not uncommon for American upper management to earn more than their bosses in Japan. I've read there are many American management workers in Toyota that make more than their CEO. The key question to look at is turnover without buyouts. How many hourly workers are leaving for other positions without buyouts? How many salaried? Many of us live in our own world and don't know and don't care about what goes on in the rest of the world and how it impacts others. At the same time we believe our own lies that we make up on the plant floor about what salaried and management get. We are our own Fox news factory out there. It is going to hurt us or kill us in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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