NO COLA, NO DICE

[SHO_Driver]

COLA is a black and white issue.

 

With it your standard of living does not change, without it your standard of living goes down with inflation.

 

No lump sum bonus that can be suspended can do that, and neither can an annual raise. Parity in wages for the low teir is also important, but not the biggest issue at present. At this point the company has hired so few new hires, very few will benefit from their pay raise. It can be addressed in a later negotiation.

 

COLA reinstatement, or production losses, choose. Bloomberg is spouting about replacement workers, good hire twice as many, and still not meet your production goals. Train all new hires, and lose market share due to the learning curve in an attempt to ramp up production. Deal with quality issues, and foreman training line workers to do work they don't even know how to perform. Remember, the new foreman (group leaders) are union members, and will be walking the line, not training your new workforce. Morally the COAL reinstatement makes sense, also it does from a business standpoint. The investors have no gripe. The stock has tripled since Mulally has taken the helm! :shades:

You're insane. There's no way we're going to get COLA when GM & Chrysler didn't.

[Furious1Auto]

There is no way the company is going to give into demands for COLA reinstatement, and I think they are willing to endure a strike is it means standing up to you and the rest of the union. I think the investors are willing to look at the long run, as well, and hope for the union being broken. No one, in a white collar world, is going to fault Ford for not wanting to add cost that GM & Chrysler don't have.

 

I wouldn't doubt the government backing Ford against the union either, it was there stipulations that stripped GM, and Chrysler of their right to strike. However not being able to cover orders costs market share, union broken or not. It will take years to recover. Look at the diesel customers Ford lost over International, many o those customers will never shop Ford again. Gotta look at the big picture. Ford is asking for security they are not whiling to provide to the workforce who brought them back from a potential financial ruin.

[Len_A]

I wouldn't doubt the government backing Ford against the union either, it was there stipulations that stripped GM, and Chrysler of their right to strike. However not being able to cover orders costs market share, union broken or not. It will take years to recover. Look at the diesel customers Ford lost over International, many o those customers will never shop Ford again. Gotta look at the big picture. Ford is asking for security they are not whiling to provide to the workforce who brought them back from a potential financial ruin.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you. I think if the company tries to break the union, even just standing up to you guys, it will garner much more positive feedback, and sales, from a public increasingly hostile to organized labor. If they can successfully break you guys, I think it will gain them a lot business, especially at the expense of the transplants. That's what a lot of marketing data is already showing. In fact, as completely unlikely as it is to happen, should Ford some how break the union enough to become a non union company, from a sales and marketing standpoint, that is the very best thing that could happen. Maybe enough to risk losing some market share in the short run. Feelings among the union haters are running that hot. When you figure that half the retail market is still in the hands of the non union transplants, there has to be an element of truth in that.

[hotcarl]

Have you not been watching the news? Did you see the public support for unions in Wisconsin? People in many cities have been protesting what they see as corporate greed. We haven't gotten a raise since '03 while our executives have raked in hundreds of millions in compensation even when ford was losing billions.Ford will probably report a profit of $20 billion for 2011 and it will be a record followed by years of more multi- billion dollar profits. My costs have gone up and so has the price of new Fords. Why can't I get a raise when they raise car prices and give each other raises? Are their families more important than mine? I just want to keep up, not get ahead and certainly not fall further behind.

[Furious1Auto]

Good luck trying to swing public opinion now. The MI, and WI laws to end collective bargaining hasn't sat well with the public, and Ford's image is favorable right now. As if the public prefers to drive non union vehicles anyway. That might be how investors buy stock, but it ain't how people buy vehicles. Fact Ford has products people want to buy. Fact non union, and even foreign made vehicles are priced comparably to union made vehicles, and the cost savings don't reach the customer. Fact, if there is a strike it will cost them market share. Now we know the rules of the game, and all the BS is aside, lets talk about the benefits that were stolen from the workforce, and the ones reinstated to the "Management Talent". Balls in Ford's court, looks like the contract is failing in the polls!

 

Oh and what kind of PR does shit quality bring, that is what your replacement workers will be giving you for the next year optimistically speaking!

Edited October 14, 2011 by Furious1Auto

[oap2ktpvet]

Have you not been watching the news? Did you see the public support for unions in Wisconsin? People in many cities have been protesting what they see as corporate greed. We haven't gotten a raise since '03 while our executives have raked in hundreds of millions in compensation even when ford was losing billions.Ford will probably report a profit of $20 billion for 2011 and it will be a record followed by years of more multi- billion dollar profits. My costs have gone up and so has the price of new Fords. Why can't I get a raise when they raise car prices and give each other raises? Are their families more important than mine? I just want to keep up, not get ahead and certainly not fall further behind.

 

I agree we need cola at the very least. If we give up now they'll be back in 4 years for more concessions

[Pioneer]

Have a Coke and a smile, boys. Because that is as close as you will ever get to getting COLA.

 

It's gone. For good. Deal with it.

[whereswaldo]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with you. I think if the company tries to break the union, even just standing up to you guys, it will garner much more positive feedback, and sales, from a public increasingly hostile to organized labor. If they can successfully break you guys, I think it will gain them a lot business, especially at the expense of the transplants. That's what a lot of marketing data is already showing. In fact, as completely unlikely as it is to happen, should Ford some how break the union enough to become a non union company, from a sales and marketing standpoint, that is the very best thing that could happen. Maybe enough to risk losing some market share in the short run. Feelings among the union haters are running that hot. When you figure that half the retail market is still in the hands of the non union transplants, there has to be an element of truth in that.

All this is pipe dreams. Ford would be a Chrysler if they truly tried to break the UAW. And Ford and IUAW know this. First Ya's will likely win this vote, but even if the NAy's do....there wont be any strike.Period. Ford as a company would be toast. IUAW wont allow a strike. Strikebreakers would be the worst thing for the situation. IF there would be a companywide strike....the market share loss would be more than short term. The sides will hit the tables,shuffle the money and vote again. By the way 1/2 market is not in transplants hands......unless you are adding in all the cars that are still imported from overseas, which is not the same.

[whereswaldo]

 

Have a Coke and a smile, boys. Because that is as close as you will ever get to getting COLA.

 

It's gone. For good. Deal with it.

 

This is from a guy that has his, so he's..... "good where he's at". Crying when Monroe closed on him....cried that Ford/UAW were leaving trades in the wind/on the street.....mercenaried at Neapco on a double dip...cried til he got into Rouge and now with his " 45 hrs on avg per week on a 4 on 4 off schedule" , he's got his. I see true colors now. Same back at you sparky in response to your reply,if any.

[Pioneer]

This is from a guy that has his, so he's..... "good where he's at". Crying when Monroe closed on him....cried that Ford/UAW were leaving trades in the wind/on the street.....mercenaried at Neapco on a double dip...cried til he got into Rouge and now with his " 45 hrs on avg per week on a 4 on 4 off schedule" , he's got his. I see true colors now. Same back at you sparky in response to your reply,if any.

 

How is getting COLA back going to get you moved into another plant and back on your tools? If anything, forcing Ford to give you COLA is going to make then lower their investments into their NA plants and will make less jobs available.

[Len_A]

How is getting COLA back going to get you moved into another plant and back on your tools? If anything, forcing Ford to give you COLA is going to make then lower their investments into their NA plants and will make less jobs available.

Exactly!!

[Furious1Auto]

That's right!

 

Bend over, spread your cheeks, and give me too good coughs.

 

Pioneer, so it is trades you are worried about preserving, and not protections for the majority? Come on my friend, don't follow the carrot. Just like raises for the group leaders. They reduced foreman's numbers, and have the union performing their duties for much less then the foreman got paid to do the same. People that take group leader jobs ride the fence, wanted authority, and didn't have the balls to go salary, too lazy to work, but want to throw their brothers under the bus if they have to pick up parts cause they are beating up a line worker with their overloaded peck sheets. Now they are waiving money in their face to try to influence the line workers.

 

You know as well as I do, anything offered in the highlights, has language in the white pages giving the company the right to back out of their commitment. There have been 4 rounds of negotiations since 07', and the company still has not met their product commitments from the 07' agreement. I am sure they will be taking care of trades too, "based on market conditions". Wake up bruh.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Furious1Auto

[Pioneer]

Pioneer, so it is trades you are worried about preserving, and not protections for the majority?

 

I'm worried about all jobs. Waldo is a millwright so I was speaking of trades jobs in my reply to him.

 

Voting no will not protect jobs, get raises, or even bring COLA back. In fact it will do the opposite. We got the best deal out of the three. The UAW went on strike in the 70's and ultimately voted to ratify the same contract three weeks later that they originally turned down. The only thing people gained was losing three weeks pay.

 

Fast forward 30 years. There is more competition, we are looking at a double-dip recession, and Ford has the gall to add good paying jobs to our plants while other people in our communities are losing their homes and can't afford to eat? How dare they!

 

/sarcasm

 

Ford has the highest paid unskilled workers in the automotive field. We have better medical benefits than my wife's job provides, and she is a nurse. Ford is adding jobs at many plants. The only downside I see is that Walton Hills is closing, but they will have opportunities to move to other plants just like I was forced to do.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Pioneer

[whereswaldo]

How is getting COLA back going to get you moved into another plant and back on your tools? If anything, forcing Ford to give you COLA is going to make then lower their investments into their NA plants and will make less jobs available.

 

First find a post of mine that you havent doctored that said anything about COLA. It aint there......And seeing as your not a mechanical trade, I understand where your bias lies. It doesnt matter if trades went to 2nd tier.....Ford will still be reducing us. And its not like there isnt any work. There is but regardless what any letters in the contract says, work still is going out and it will continue with this new contract. Bob King made it clear one or two contracts ago the direction he was going to let trades go and that is south. GM has more direct language about mechanisms for placing, reskilling,etc etc trades than anything in ours. Anyway, no one likes the monies we gave up but I havent said anything about insisting on getting COLA back.

[whereswaldo]

 

Edited October 16, 2011 by whereswaldo

[Furious1Auto]

I don't know, ya know. F-ck it I don't even care anymore. I see a trend that has got me leaning towards the dark side. I have been a labor activist for years, and took particular interest in the well being of the UAW and members. It's obvious to me that there are no more unions in this country who are not corrupt, and worried about their own self interests. Also it is the company that wins every negotiation, and the management that get rewarded for it. I may as well join the salaried, and use my knowledge, and skills to get rich screwing the sheep I would be paid to manage. I will be moving in that direction from this day forward, cause you can open peoples eyes, but you can't make them see. What a waste of time, years of my life standing up for people that lack the common sense, will and ability to defend their selves. I feel numb, what a pity.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Furious1Auto

[Pioneer]

First find a post of mine that you havent doctored that said anything about COLA. It aint there......And seeing as your not a mechanical trade, I understand where your bias lies. It doesnt matter if trades went to 2nd tier.....Ford will still be reducing us. And its not like there isnt any work. There is but regardless what any letters in the contract says, work still is going out and it will continue with this new contract. Bob King made it clear one or two contracts ago the direction he was going to let trades go and that is south. GM has more direct language about mechanisms for placing, reskilling,etc etc trades than anything in ours. Anyway, no one likes the monies we gave up but I havent said anything about insisting on getting COLA back.

 

 

If you consider leaving only the part of the post that I am responding to and deleting the rest "doctoring", then sorry. I'll leave the whole post from now on.

 

And I assumed you were talking about COLA. You are replying in a thread titled "NO COLA, NO DICE".

 

The way I see the contract, with the new work coming into DSP, DDMP, AAI, and the third shift at MAP combined with the buyouts of trades-persons, I see a major influx of mechanical trades in the SE Michigan area.

[whereswaldo]

If you consider leaving only the part of the post that I am responding to and deleting the rest "doctoring", then sorry. I'll leave the whole post from now on.

 

And I assumed you were talking about COLA. You are replying in a thread titled "NO COLA, NO DICE".

 

The way I see the contract, with the new work coming into DSP, DDMP, AAI, and the third shift at MAP combined with the buyouts of trades-persons, I see a major influx of mechanical trades in the SE Michigan area.

No I dont consider that. Just because someone responds anything under this post, you conveniently put words in their mouths.

[Furious1Auto]

If you consider leaving only the part of the post that I am responding to and deleting the rest "doctoring", then sorry. I'll leave the whole post from now on.

 

And I assumed you were talking about COLA. You are replying in a thread titled "NO COLA, NO DICE".

 

The way I see the contract, with the new work coming into DSP, DDMP, AAI, and the third shift at MAP combined with the buyouts of trades-persons, I see a major influx of mechanical trades in the SE Michigan area.

 

 

Yeah, and it was contracted at OHAP, and the warranties on the new equipment limited the regular tradesman's ability to make repairs. Demand for tradesman, does not mean that they will be Ford employees. Now speaking as a manager, I would set up a trades database, and advertise temporary work for skilled labor for short term contacts. No unemployment to pay when they are not working, and no need to hire full time. The internet would be where I draw most of my staff, offering paid travel, and meal comps while traveling to the job site. Also providing them with hotel lodging till they receive their first 3 weeks salary. There are companies all over that service other like facilities. Also I would move to outsource future in-house maintenance crews much the same as the clean up crew. We can take this further. I learned enough about how things work to fight with the language from either side of the fence.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Furious1Auto

[danehilby]

You already make way more than most unskilled people. The company will not raise fixed costs . They have to show investers that they pay competitive wages. If the company gives anything they will cut something else out. If Americans are told that Ford is not going to invest as much in American jobs by anything less than they are agreeing to now because the already well paid workers want more the American people will rally to do what they can to stamp the union out. If we were taking a big pay cut like some others have done than I would be voting NO along with you. The RISKS ARE GREATER THAN THE REWARDS. The No voters are gambleing with the Yes voters money. I wiil still be pissed even if I get something more because you took a chance with my finances which could of hurt my and lot of other families. I am good( actually great for my skill set) with were I will be at if the deal passes.

 

 

Shows how much you know, wages are NOT a fixed cost; they are a direct variable cost. . A part that goes into a car is a fixed cost. Each part (such as a brake) costs the same coming from a shipment of parts. You do not get a shipment of parts and pay one price for one brake and another price for another brake from the same batch.

 

However, it may take one assembler 10 seconds to put the part into the car when assembling; it may take 15 seconds for another assembler. That is not a fixed cost. Wages for a period are added up and then divided into the amount of products you assemble, making it a direct variable cost. Then you apply the amount you have found by the division to each product you make.

 

Supervisor salaries and your skilled trades wages are a variable overhead cost. Should I go on or do you want to still argue your untruths????

[whereswaldo]

I don't know, ya know. F-ck it I don't even care anymore. I see a trend that has got me leaning towards the dark side. I have been a labor activist for years, and took particular interest in the well being of the UAW and members. It's obvious to me that there are no more unions in this country who are not corrupt, and worried about their own self interests. Also it is the company that wins every negotiation, and the management that get rewarded for it. I may as well join the salaried, and use my knowledge, and skills to get rich screwing the sheep I would be paid to manage. I will be moving in that direction from this day forward, cause you can open peoples eyes, but you can't make them see. What a waste of time, years of my life standing up for people that lack the common sense, will and ability to defend their selves. I feel numb, what a pity.

 

Dude people are ultimately responsible for themselves. There are a lot of people out there that could use someone with your drive. Unfortunately they wont be UAW and likely wont be union. You just need to redirect. Put it to a better use. Take a break....( just not on company time )..LOL.. reload...(oops we cant say that anymore...) come back and take no prisoners..(crap, cant say that either). Anyway you know what I mean. Good Luck & Godspeed.

[Furious1Auto]

Dude people are ultimately responsible for themselves. There are a lot of people out there that could use someone with your drive. Unfortunately they wont be UAW and likely wont be union. You just need to redirect. Put it to a better use. Take a break....( just not on company time )..LOL.. reload...(oops we cant say that anymore...) come back and take no prisoners..(crap, cant say that either). Anyway you know what I mean. Good Luck & Godspeed.

 

I already left Ford on Jan, 5th of 09'. Me being retired, and eligible for a pension is the only thing allows me to maintain my membership on BOF. During the 07' negotiation I was arguing with a manager on this site that told me what I did not want to hear, the truth. He told me the difference between him and I was that he was being compensated competitively within his market. He could lose his job tomorrow, and find a another job that paid comparable for his skill level. Made me angry, but it also motivated me. I left Ford, and invested almost all the money I walked away with into building my future. Started a moving company, got a bail bonding license, and got my Mariners document. Two of my three ventures did not pan out. Now I have been sailing the great lakes for 3 years, and have been perpetually going to school to acquire more credentials. I make more then I did as a line worker, have plenty of room for advancement, and if I lost my job tomorrow would likely get a pay raise doing so. However I do have loyalty to my employer, and am the head of my dept. Someone else also told me that some people are not meant to rise above their station in life, but I am not satisfied that someone else will decide how far I will go. That is my choice, and I will smash anyone who stands in my way!

 

Like I said before, no point in defending the ignorant, and defenseless, I may as well just take what I need, and let them fend for their selves. The union mainly defended the trouble makers anyway. I came to work everyday, did my job, and was never disciplined the entire time I worked at Ford. 3 more years and I will have my steam engineers license, instead of worrying if I have a job every day, and stressing over rebalance after rebalance, and contract negotiation! By the way, will someone take the thong out of Henry's hand. His statue is standing in front of the Rouge complex as we speak with ladies underwear in his right palm. He must have had a Mustang burger for lunch! LOL

 

 

Edited October 16, 2011 by Furious1Auto

[poop]

By the way, will someone take the thong out of Henry's hand. His statue is standing in front of the Rouge complex as we speak with ladies underwear in his right palm.

 

 

LMAO LMAO :hysterical2: :hysterical3: