joihan777 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I wish for... A 4WD Hybrid Mustang. A small Ecoboost I-4 would power the front wheels and be on during all driving modes. HP would be in the 200+ range. A generator would be attached to this engine to charge a small set of batteries in the back. The rear wheels wheels would be powered by a electric engine and would only fire in 'burst' mode i.e. acceleration. Squashing the throttle would provide 'instant' 100+ additional HP, totaling around 300+ HP. The battery pack wouldn't be that big, and the electric boost wouldn't last that long (say about 2 minutes worth?) before recharging. Since electric engine can be powered up instantaneously, the driver wouldn't feel a "lack" because on-demand power is always available. This would give the Mustang good fuel economy but have the power needed for accelerating quickly off the line. Plus 4WD would improve grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 No... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I wish for... A 4WD Hybrid Mustang. A small Ecoboost I-4 would power the front wheels and be on during all driving modes. HP would be in the 200+ range. A generator would be attached to this engine to charge a small set of batteries in the back. The rear wheels wheels would be powered by a electric engine and would only fire in 'burst' mode i.e. acceleration. Squashing the throttle would provide 'instant' 100+ additional HP, totaling around 300+ HP. The battery pack wouldn't be that big, and the electric boost wouldn't last that long (say about 2 minutes worth?) before recharging. Since electric engine can be powered up instantaneously, the driver wouldn't feel a "lack" because on-demand power is always available. This would give the Mustang good fuel economy but have the power needed for accelerating quickly off the line. Plus 4WD would improve grip. I've sorta-ranted for a front-ICE/rear-electric "Virtual AWD" for some time. Think several driving-modes could use it for more than just "burst" acceleration. Tho definitely would include that. but That's not a Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) I've sorta-ranted for a front-ICE/rear-electric "Virtual AWD" for some time. Think several driving-modes could use it for more than just "burst" acceleration. Tho definitely would include that. but That's not a Mustang. I feel ya, but as an owner of a V6 'Stang, I can tell you that not all Mustangs are tracked on the weekends. =D A relatively powerful pony that gets 35-40mpg would be welcomed! (Of course there's always room for the GTs!) The batteries would provide enough juice that the only way to run out of power is to keep it over 100mph for more than several minutes. My way of thinking is... if you want that, go get a regular engine/ GT Mustang. This Hybrid would be a DD for most of the Mustang drivers. Like I said, the RWD power-add would be seamless and invisible. It would 'feel' slightly more powerful than a V6.... minus the grumble sonics. Plus it could do well in the rain/ snow & twisties. Edited November 27, 2011 by joihan777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) hmm... since my 2 liter (125hp?) 4-auto econobox can hit 120mph and cruise easily for hours at 100, I'm not sure you'd need the electrics to stay a bit above 100mph with 200hp... but my main concerns are - whether the structure requirements for this very different drivetrain would mechanically compromise the traditional Mustangs, and - whether just offering something so atypical would 'warp' perceptions of Mustangs in general, and - whether a different form-factor for "our" vehicle would work better (I'd prefer something based on the Focus family - but then I'd rather spend more on lightweight construction than quite as much HP as you're aiming for) ps forgot to say - it's very nice to find someone else calling for Virtual-AWD :D Edited November 28, 2011 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 hmm... since my 2 liter (125hp?) 4-auto econobox can hit 120mph and cruise easily for hours at 100, I'm not sure you'd need the electrics to stay a bit above 100mph with 200hp... but my main concerns are - whether the structure requirements for this very different drivetrain would mechanically compromise the traditional Mustangs, and - whether just offering something so atypical would 'warp' perceptions of Mustangs in general, and - whether a different form-factor for "our" vehicle would work better (I'd prefer something based on the Focus family - but then I'd rather spend more on lightweight construction than quite as much HP as you're aiming for) ps forgot to say - it's very nice to find someone else calling for Virtual-AWD :D :D The Mustangs are probably a little heavier than econobox. Plus, the electrics will primarily aid fuel economy, so the gasoline engine wouldn't have to go too far outside of the 'sweet-spot'. I think the generation that sees Mustangs as only trackable muscle cars will fade away. Reality says get more economical in ALL cars.... now. The less we depend on American-hatin' countries' oil the better. There is no argument against that. And, same here. I think performance, virtual AWD hybrids are in the near future! Ford may as well be THE LEADER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think the generation that sees Mustangs as only trackable muscle cars will fade away. The day that happens, the Mustang should fade away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 seems like the VW concept is a virtual-Awd autoblog "...offers a unique all-wheel-drive hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors (one for each axle) and a direct-injection, turbocharged gasoline engine. The system has a maximum output of 262 horsepower with the engine and one electric motor sharing propulsion duties up front, and a second 114-horsepower electric motor powering the rear axle when driving conditions require all-wheel drive. Volkswagen managed to fold the vehicle's lithium-ion battery pack into the transmission tunnel where the driveshaft would typically reside. This design allows for a low center of gravity and plenty of interior space, as well..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) seems like the VW concept is a virtual-Awd autoblog "...offers a unique all-wheel-drive hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors (one for each axle) and a direct-injection, turbocharged gasoline engine. The system has a maximum output of 262 horsepower with the engine and one electric motor sharing propulsion duties up front, and a second 114-horsepower electric motor powering the rear axle when driving conditions require all-wheel drive. Volkswagen managed to fold the vehicle's lithium-ion battery pack into the transmission tunnel where the driveshaft would typically reside. This design allows for a low center of gravity and plenty of interior space, as well..." Seems like they traded the weight of a gasoline transmission for a 2nd electric engine. Hmmmm.... What an exciting time to be an automotive engineer! I didn't see expected economy (mpg). My hope with my AWD Hybrid Mustang idea was using a smaller (less dangerous) battery pack that only provided a few minutes of continuous 'Ooomph' & relied primarily on the eI-4 for cruising. I've seen turbo-charged I-3s scoot little SUV up the side of mountains... I'm sure Ford can whip something up. As far as offering a Hybrid or pure electric model... one day hybrids will be ALL that's left of gasoline (caveman) engines. But I suspect the Mustang will be around as long as Ford will be. Unless Daimler buys it :fear: Edited December 1, 2011 by joihan777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) seems like the VW concept is a virtual-Awd autoblog "...offers a unique all-wheel-drive hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors (one for each axle) and a direct-injection, turbocharged gasoline engine. The system has a maximum output of 262 horsepower with the engine and one electric motor sharing propulsion duties up front, and a second 114-horsepower electric motor powering the rear axle when driving conditions require all-wheel drive. Volkswagen managed to fold the vehicle's lithium-ion battery pack into the transmission tunnel where the driveshaft would typically reside. This design allows for a low center of gravity and plenty of interior space, as well..." Honda/Acura seems to be going this direction as well: My link Should be lighter, as the transfer case, driveshaft, and rear differential can be eliminated. Edited December 1, 2011 by GTwannabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Honda/Acura seems to be going this direction as well: My link Should be lighter, as the transfer case, driveshaft, and rear differential can be eliminated. Are electric motors and accompanying battery packs really lighter than a transfer case, driveshaft, and differential though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Are electric motors and accompanying battery packs really lighter than a transfer case, driveshaft, and differential though? QUOTE: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. A high-efficiency, high output electric SH-AWD hybrid system which combines superior driving and environmental performance. A new hybrid system, electric SH-AWD, was developed for large-sized vehicles. By combining a 3.5L, V6 engine with this hybrid system, acceleration equivalent to V8 engines, as well as fuel efficiency equal or superior to in-line 4-cylinder engines were realized. An electric 4WD system with independent 20kW+ motors on both sides for the rear wheels combines a 7-speed dual clutch transmission system with a built-in 30kW+ high-efficiency motor with the engine. By mounting a high-performance lithium-ion battery and optimally controlling the front and rear motors, a new hybrid system with high fuel efficiency and output was realized. By mounting two independent motors in the rear and employing a newly developed bilateral torque adjustable control system, incredibly tight cornering just like driving "on-the-rail" is realized. With this mechanism, Honda strives to provide a stable ride for various driving environments. 6. A compact, high efficiency electric powertrain for EVs. Thanks to the high efficiency coaxial motor, low-friction gearbox and electric servo brake system, the system realizes the highest electrical consumption capability in the world*1, meeting the required AC consumption rate of 29kWh/100mile(116MPGe) as set forth by the United States. A traveling distance of 123 miles*2(LA-4mode: unadjusted) or 210km*2(JC08 mode) was achieved thanks to the mounting of a high capacity lithium-ion battery. When using the 240V U.S. electric source, a full charge takes less than 3 hours. (From the time a low-charge signal is lit till full charge) By offering three driving modes (SPORT, NORMAL, ECON), the driver can freely select from a number of options to meet the needs of various driving styles such as power-saving or sporty drive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmph, Looks like Honda is seeing a marketable trend. SERIOUSLY hoping Ford catches on, cause it's gonna suck if I leave Ford! =( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Yes absolutely brilliant idea two thumbs up, you get choked up a lot in traffic in the UK small heavily congested roads overtaxed fuel. Nobody has the slightest bit of interest in hybrid thanks to the pig ugly Prius that has average just 100 sales a month in the last 10 years, RWD fun with classic looks with hybrid power to wipe the smug grin of a self righteous Prius owners face when you are stuck on the M25 Highway car park would be priceless. If there is anything that will sell the hybrid it will be the handsome styled Mustang. Would love a 4x4 Mustang but it would not get used 99.9% of the time, we only get a about 1 feet of snow or much less for about one week a year in the UK l normally put a couple of sacks of coal or a few bags of cement in the boot (trunk) if we get some deep snow in my Mk1 Capri/Escort and have never had any problems at all with snow. I would prefer RWD as its more fun to drive and does not carry a weight penalty of 4x4, they tried 4x4 in F1 and failed the cars were a lot slower on every lap. Maybe a nice torquie diesel with superb MPG for Europe with the low CO2 shit to beat the EU taxes on C02 based environmental laws when it arrives in 2014 or it could end up another huge massive cock-up when the Ford USA dunderheads sent us a gasoline only Ford Maverick (no diesel option) to the UK then wondered why nobody was buying it, they could afford to fill it up as everybody else's SUV's were 90% nearly all diesel SUV's getting 3 times the MPG, and the few that were not had much smaller gasoline engines fitted. Edited December 2, 2011 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Maybe a nice torquie diesel with superb MPG for Europe with the low CO2 shit to beat the EU taxes on C02 based environmental laws when it arrives in 2014 or it could end up another huge massive cock-up when the Ford USA dunderheads sent us a gasoline only Ford Maverick (no diesel option) to the UK then wondered why nobody was buying it, they could afford to fill it up as everybody else's SUV's were 90% nearly all diesel SUV's getting 3 times the MPG, and the few that were not had much smaller gasoline engines fitted. Do you really think Ford would stick a diesel in the Mustang just to appease the 18 people in the UK who would buy one every month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Do you really think Ford would stick a diesel in the Mustang just to appease the 18 people in the UK who would buy one every month? Your tiny little country with 300 million use and Japan are isolated in that you don't drive diesel cars Nick there is a big wide world that exists outside of North America Nick believe it or not that all drive diesels. I live in Europe with 731 million live who all drive diesels like the rest of the world. Boring Mondeo might sell 18 hybrids if Ford ever done it, the super dull Prius might have averaged 100 sales month in ten years, the Chevy Volt might have sold 125 in July Stateside but put it in a Mustang diesel hybrid 10,000 sale month no problem in Europe with its cool shape it would make hybrids popular for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Your tiny little country with 300 million use and Japan are isolated in that you don't drive diesel cars Nick there is a big wide world that exists outside of North America Nick believe it or not that all drive diesels. I live in Europe with 731 million live who all drive diesels like the rest of the world. Boring Mondeo might sell 18 hybrids if Ford ever done it, the super dull Prius might have averaged 100 sales month in ten years, the Chevy Volt might have sold 125 in July Stateside but put it in a Mustang diesel hybrid 10,000 sale month no problem in Europe with its cool shape it would make hybrids popular for a change. 10,000 Mustang sales a month in Europe. The crack cocaine in the UK must be wicked good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Do you really think Ford would stick a diesel in the Mustang just to appease the 18 people in the UK who would buy one every month? They would mess their panties upon contact with a severely underpowered Mustang: My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 10,000 Mustang sales a month in Europe. The crack cocaine in the UK must be wicked good. Yes and over 2 million Prius have been sold already worldwide. I wonder how many small RWD cars have been as successful worldwide as the Prius in the last 14 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes and over 2 million Prius have been sold already worldwide. I wonder how many small RWD cars have been as successful worldwide as the Prius in the last 14 years? Probaby closest to it would be the BMW 3-series. Not a whole ton of RWD sleds that are sold in all of the major global markets simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Virtual AWD is almost here!!! :D Volvo V60 Plug-in Hybrid (2013) - NetCarShow ...Pressing the AWD button activates the electrical four-wheel drive. Instead of the mechanical power transfer of conventional four-wheel drive, the central control unit distributes power between the diesel-driven front wheels and the electrically-driven rear axle. The electric four-wheel drive system has been designed to provide better grip when starting and when driving on slippery roads, for instance in snow or mud... ...Three driving modes - three cars in one The driver selects the required driving mode via three buttons that give the car three entirely different temperaments: Pure, Hybrid or Power. In Pure mode the car is powered solely by its electric motor as much as possible. If the battery pack has been recharged with electricity from renewable sources, its range is up to 50 kilometres and its carbon dioxide emissions are zero. The electric range varies with terrain, climate and driving style. Hybrid is the standard setting whenever the car is started. The diesel engine and electric motor cooperate to ensure optimal balance between driving pleasure and environmental footprint. CO2 emission (NEDC, mixed driving cycle for certification) is 49g/km, corresponding to diesel consumption of 1.9l/100km. The car has a total range of up to 1,000km. In Power mode the technology is optimised to give the car the maximum possible power. The diesel engine and electric motor have a total power output of 215+70 horsepower and maximum torque of 440+200Nm. The electric motor's lightning-quick torque delivery contributes to the car's acceleration from 0 to 100km/h in 6.2 seconds... Edited December 14, 2011 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 4WD Mustang 4 Sale - MotorAuthority In 1965, Harry Ferguson Research built three 1965 Ford Mustang 4WD prototypes, in an effort to convince Ford (and others) of the value of driving all four wheels. Ferguson was confident in its engineering, as the company had built a race-winning 4WD Formula 1 car for the 1960 season, and the Ferguson Formula 4WD system used on the Mustangs later saw production in the Jensen FF. To call this particular Ford Mustang rare is more than a minor understatement... ...The car is for sale at a dealer in Hampshire, England... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I'm pretty sure if the 56 mpg requirements come to pass, all Ford's cars will have some type of electric drive assist, I believe Popular Mechanic's ran an article supposedly with Ford's assistance showing how this would work. As I recall the Pop Mech article showed electric assist used in-line with the 5.0L drive train, producing a car that when babied could get 40 mpgs and accelerate like a bat out of H! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 I'm pretty sure if the 56 mpg requirements come to pass, all Ford's cars will have some type of electric drive assist, I believe Popular Mechanic's ran an article supposedly with Ford's assistance showing how this would work. As I recall the Pop Mech article showed electric assist used in-line with the 5.0L drive train, producing a car that when babied could get 40 mpgs and accelerate like a bat out of H! An older article on this. Some of the ideas in the article may still be applicable to current sports car mentality! http://books.google.com/books?id=ZuQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=electric+drive+assist+Popular+Mechanics&source=bl&ots=p62wDl_bfo&sig=ANhnlGtjvH4wIKRKEuTQAHtI2b0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6L7zTqjPEabaiQK-uLiNDg&ved=0CJgBEOgBMBA#v=onepage&q=electric%20drive%20assist%20Popular%20Mechanics&f=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenracing Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I wish for... A 4WD Hybrid Mustang. A small Ecoboost I-4 would power the front wheels and be on during all driving modes. HP would be in the 200+ range. A generator would be attached to this engine to charge a small set of batteries in the back. The rear wheels wheels would be powered by a electric engine and would only fire in 'burst' mode i.e. acceleration. Squashing the throttle would provide 'instant' 100+ additional HP, totaling around 300+ HP. The battery pack wouldn't be that big, and the electric boost wouldn't last that long (say about 2 minutes worth?) before recharging. Since electric engine can be powered up instantaneously, the driver wouldn't feel a "lack" because on-demand power is always available. This would give the Mustang good fuel economy but have the power needed for accelerating quickly off the line. Plus 4WD would improve grip. :do what: NO NO NO NO NO NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I wish for... A 4WD Hybrid Mustang. A small Ecoboost I-4 would power the front wheels and be on during all driving modes. HP would be in the 200+ range. A generator would be attached to this engine to charge a small set of batteries in the back. The rear wheels wheels would be powered by a electric engine and would only fire in 'burst' mode i.e. acceleration. Squashing the throttle would provide 'instant' 100+ additional HP, totaling around 300+ HP. The battery pack wouldn't be that big, and the electric boost wouldn't last that long (say about 2 minutes worth?) before recharging. Since electric engine can be powered up instantaneously, the driver wouldn't feel a "lack" because on-demand power is always available. This would give the Mustang good fuel economy but have the power needed for accelerating quickly off the line. Plus 4WD would improve grip. Let me fix this for you..... I wish for... A 4WD Hybrid Mustang. A 2.0 liter Ecoboost I-4 would power the rear wheels and be on during all driving modes. HP would be in the 250+ range. A integrated starter generator would be attached to this engine to charge a small set of batteries in the back. The front wheels would be powered by an electric motor and would primarily run when accelerating. Squashing the throttle would provide 'instant' 100+ additional HP, totaling around 350+ HP. Since electric engine has full torque at zero RPM, the driver wouldn't feel any lack of power because on-demand power is always available. This would give the Mustang good fuel economy with the power needed for accelerating quickly off the line. Plus 4WD would improve grip during adverse weather or track conditions. 5.4 seconds 0-60, 35 mpg city 33 mpg highway Mustang Hybrid, that can actually drive in snow doesn't sound so bad does it? Edited January 22, 2012 by Mackintire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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