Crown Vic, Grand Marquis Named "Worst Cars"

[Moby Vic]

Oh boy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13939015/

 

They got dinged for poor resale value.

[Watchdevil]

Oh boy:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13939015/

 

They got dinged for poor resale value.

 

Go figure.. it's not really a state of the art contemporary car anyone aspires to own with style and design barely progessed from the 1980's. The market is flooded with new, used and like new used vehicles for those looking for a deal.

 

It's time for the Panthers to be put out of it's misery! Especially now that it has lost ground to Chrysler for police duty.

 

At the very least, there should have been a total restyling instead of facelifting the same old body.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Watchdevil

[Moby Vic]

Some of us don't buy cars to sell them, so resale value isn't a factor.

 

Of the four cars I've ever owned, I still have three. The only reason I don't have the fourth is that it was stolen and never recovered.

 

Ford seems determined to let the Panthers die for no good reason. They're still selling despite essentially zero retail marketing support, and they're competent cars. Everyone I know who has driven one has liked it.

 

An engine upgrade and a thorough styling freshening would do the trick, but it doesn't seem to be part of the Way Forward.

[SysEng]

This from Ford...

 

 

A Ford Motor spokesman explained that Grand Marquis "has limited market appeal. It's primarily older customers who buy the car. ... It's not what I would call contemporary.

 

"In addition," he said, "the sticker price of the vehicle is relatively higher than the transaction price because incentives have grown. That helps drive resale value down, because that's all based on sticker prices."

 

No you morons, its NOT contemporary! How the can it be when its practically indistinguishable from model from the turn of the last century! Is it any wonder Ford stock is near joke levels, and the company is on the edge. The very attitude of this guy reeks of goof.

 

Meanwhile, wasn't it Forbes tha basically declared the "panthers" 4 of the 8 safest cars in the world just a couple of years ago? Anything that sells the rag I guess. :shrug:

[taxman100]

I love low resale value - where else can you get one of longest lasting cars built today for song? Of course, an 06 is not that much different than a 98 (some say 92 for the Grand Marquis), so if you own one, why get a new one?

 

Just because everyone else is unaware of what a great platform the Panther is, it causes better used car values for people in the know.

[Traveler]

Obviously if the Ford spokeman truly speaks for Ford, then it just goes to show what Ford management thinks of the CV/GM/TC. Its the model they wish to avoid talking about publically because it doesn't mesh well with their 'updated' image. I'm probably the only dummy to buy one new but no so much to not get a good price because I knew the hit would come. Of course, whereas the typical sedan buyer must keep with the trends of whatever is popular, they'll be out of there car in 3 years. Lots of Panther owners keep their cars double and triple that. The Panther platform is just automotive media fodder to kick around. Its the oldest car platform out there, its domestic and makes a good target because its stereotyped seven ways to Sunday.

I'd like to challenge any media outlet to run a two-sided story and inquire just how many Panthers are on the roads today and survey how long the average owner keeps them. Many car buyers flip-flop from one thing to the next, but take notice...many Panther owners will often trade for another one.

[Bored of Pisteon]

MSNBC reported this huh?

 

Well MSNBC... NOBODY WATCHES YOUR PROGRAMMING :titanic: :titanic: SO WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS! This is part of the problem with the media in this country... They try and tell the ignorant masses what to do and what to buy...

 

I'll bet my life behind a Crown Vic (LTD), a Grand Marquis or a Town Car any day of the week before some foreign pile of shit that gets crushed like an accordian being played at a polka party!

 

 

msnbc: MORE SHIT NEWS BROADCASTING COMPANY

 

:kissass: :kissass: :kissass: :kissass:

 

SUCK IT! :whipped: :banmolest:

Edited July 21, 2006 by Bored of Pisteon

[Watchdevil]

This from Ford...

No you morons, its NOT contemporary! How the can it be when its practically indistinguishable from model from the turn of the last century! Is it any wonder Ford stock is near joke levels, and the company is on the edge. The very attitude of this guy reeks of goof.

 

Meanwhile, wasn't it Forbes tha basically declared the "panthers" 4 of the 8 safest cars in the world just a couple of years ago? Anything that sells the rag I guess. :shrug:

 

I always say you can always get grandma and grandpa to buy a contemporary new car with modern styling. But you cant make a young person buy an old man's car... Do you all realize that a Panther looks to me as old and odd now as did the Checker cabs did still being made in the 1980's with no significant changes from the 1950's. I wouldn't say the platform itself is incompetent but it certainly deserves a stylish body riding on top of the chassis. Sure its crashworthy...

 

No one complains about trucks and SUV's riding on body on frame chassis. Hell many of the people buying those things are the same people who used to buy the body on frame vehicles before most of them fizzled out by the 1990's.. Big and heavy SUV's though are taking a doward turn with high gas prices these days.. Plus more people are opting for a smoother car-like ride and handling.

[SysEng]

... Do you all realize that a Panther looks to me as old and odd now as did the Checker cabs did still being made in the 1980's with no significant changes from the 1950's. I wouldn't say the platform itself is incompetent but i

 

I wasn't all that impressed with the current styling, but I bought, 'cuz I'm "in the know".

 

But I totally agree with what your saying. It may be the best bang for the buck ever, but it looks like ( why bother we beat the styling issue of this and other Fords to death here ). I totally sypathise with your observation. In fact, I can imagine what you see.

Edited July 21, 2006 by SysEng

[stapking]

that's what I think about the guy that wrote this artical. I can smell the sushi money that lines his pocket. I had a good laugh! It's funny some jack-off writes this crap when other car publishers are saying nothing but good things about the panther cars. lets see CV's are known to get 2 million km's the Acura I had a few years ago only got to 230,000 km's before verything went on it.

 

The guy I bought my house from only buys Grand Marques and has for years and he's a penny pincher why? he wants the best in his words.

 

The police officers I know on the London force like the CV better than the Charger for saftey and handling. The only thing Charger gets a vote on is speed and looks.

 

Lets talk about the asian auto makers who are now getting in deep crap for not reporting they're recall numbers. Let's talk about Chrysler now realizing and saying rear wheel cars are better now they're going in that direction. Oh, but that's right the panther cars are already there!

 

People say the CV and GM's are old mans cars well maybe the old man has one up on everyone else. I'm in my 30's and if I had the money I'd get a GM or a CV. Ford just needs to redesign the car a bit so alot of people in they're 30's and up will want it. the rest of the car underneath is still the best. FULL BODY FRAME built like a sleek tank! To all the "wankers" spouting all of your negative crap about Panthers read the full stories out there on the web and maybe research the cars then come to a conclusion. This is what I think about the people that fall for the asian propaganda auto war machine

[Watchdevil]

I will just never understand why they keep the stodgy old design just for old folks and police cruisers when they could keep that customer base and also gain youth market appeal by having a contemporary new design.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Watchdevil

[mercmarauder]

I have to say that the Panthers should not be killed off. Why? because it is such a great frame. They redid the frame itself so extensivley in 2003 that it is even better than previously. the Panther is a great frame. I think, though, that Ford should have at least ATTEMPTED to restyle the bodys of the cars at least once in the past 16 years. Sure, there was the redesign in 98, but it didnt change much from the 91's. I don't understand why Ford let the cars just languish design and performance wise. The 300 hp Marauder should be the stock motor for a car that heaby...239 hp are you kidding me? 300 hp just gets the car moving, I can't imagine ony 239. But the cars are great, strong, sturdy, safe, i love mine. just wish they would redesign them once ina generation.

[taxman100]

I will just never understand why they keep the stodgy old design just for old folks and police cruisers when they could keep that customer base and also gain youth market appeal by having a contemporary new design.

 

Hmm, that's a question for senior management - apparently Jaguar was at the top of the food chain, and Ford domestic products were at the bottom, and got only scraps.

 

That's why every new design is based upon something they have stolen from overseas operations. Since they cannot find anything to steal to use to replace the Panther, it is still sitting around rotting from neglect.

[Traveler]

Its not the horsepower that gets the car moving, but the torque and at near 290 lbs. ft of torque, the Panther 2 valve's with dual exhaust is not that far behind the Marauder 4v. Doesn't the Marauder make around 310 in torque at a similar peak? The rated horsepower difference may seem like a lot but on the street, I'd bet a lot would be surprised at how little the difference would be. From what I remember there's around a .6 tenths difference in the quarter mile between the old 2V GT and the Mach.

 

When you compare the HPP vs. Marauder its like comparing a Mustang GT vs. a Mach 1 because of the similarities of the power and drivetrains. Plus, the Marauder's did weigh a tad bit more than a standard Panther. Still, the Marauder does represent the cream of the crop in terms of performance. The only problem with the 4v is the need for premium and no gains in mileage. A premium gasoline burning engine can not be the base engine for a sedan like the Panthers. If nothing more, its symbolic. Law enforcement, livery, taxi and personal buyers typically will not want the DOHC V8. What the Panther needs by the time they could get around to it is the 4.6 3v and the 5 speed automatic. The Panthers have shared similarities for years with the Mustang GT in terms of engine, automatic transmissions and ring and pinion ratios.

 

Make no mistake...I'm not knocking the 4.6 4v having owned one for several years, but its not the appropriate response for a need for more standardized performance and for a sport model/law enforcement, the CV needs displacement with mindful mileage rather than an engine with high compression and a thirst for premium gasoline. Its my own opinion, that with the shrinking of the market for these cars, Ford should commit to one engine across the board that will meet the realistic needs of those buying. If we could get a supercharged 5.4 Shelby-ized CV Sport or a new Marauder, so be it but I don't see that happening. The car will live out its remaining days with a realistic powertrain and transmission or not at all and the Mustang GT represents the ideal candidate for a donor. Preferably I think that all Panthers should have a 5.0L 3-valve engine that burns 87 octane with a 5 speed automatic, but probably the 4.6 3v would have to do.

 

To me, I look at the Marauder's appearance being far from old-person like no more than I do the Impala SS or any other larger sedan with a little sports styling. To me, even the Crown Vic doesn't really look that old...I guess because of its heavy law enforcement usage and seeing a lot of younger LEOs driving them. Its aged but not in a terrible way. The way I see it, its a style that is neither offensive or strikingly gorgeous in a trendy way. Its lines are simple but flows well and doesn't look outdated like say a old mid-90s Bonneville would in 2006. Its needs some attention, but I just don't see Ford throwing money behind it anymore. They might pump in some more power in there and add a new tranny along with some minor stuff, but I feel if its stays it will go largely unchanged...like it or not. I've come to appreciate all the Panthers more, but maybe I'm just unique.

[retro-man]

I agree with both sides on this: It has come to resemble the old Checker - that's exactly the way I see it too. It is a perfectly good platform.

 

Keep the chassis. Give it a body based on the 427 concept, a new interior, and some optional horsepower and torque. (Hell, you could even keep a 6 for the bottom feeder model.) If they had done this 5 years ago (may be getting a little late in the game to get moving by now), they would've stolen Chrysler's thunder - and its cop car sales. Would these few simple steps really have been such a huge investment for Ford? Is it really that untenable an idea? What were they thinking (if they were thinking at all) about this venerable workhorse anyway?

Edited July 22, 2006 by niteflight

[Traveler]

I think the problem arose from Ford following GM's lead rather than having foresight into what the buying public would want. I'll bet that after aquiring Volvo cars and the S80 (which it has been said was Nasser's chief objective), Ford had saw Chevrolet pull out of the RWD BOF sedan market and switch to FWD. Ford probably thought they would be riding high platform sharing their sedans, and SUV and truck sales would continue to flourish. They failed to see Chrysler's RWD sedans coming to light or either didn't take them serious. Perhaps they saw a decline in popularity for their cars and rather than reinvest in them, they thought the Five-Hundred would trump the Impala in the V6 FWD market.

 

Fast forward and you have gasoline prices on the rise which has truck and SUV sales on the decline somewhat, which has been a glorious thing for Ford over the past 15 years. Instead of capitalizing on the Caprice being discontinue, Ford chose to ride along with the Panther as-is for the most part. Afterall, Impala was a hit right out of the gate sales-wise. The problem came the Hemi and then with the RWD LX sedans, which has in turned created pressure on GM to return to RWD. It did spur on a V8 model for last year, obviously to counter the DCX effort. Ford, in the meantime, was just rolling out on the market with a Five-Hundred with tepid performance and tasteful, yet somewhat bland exterior styling. Sales were less than expected, Chrysler and Dodge had a sensational hit with the V8 RWD sedans and now Ford is left with their pants down around their ankles with apparently no new RWD platform on the table. I really feel that Ford thought that the market would be different and that with ongoing interest, the Five-Hundred would replace the Crown Victoria entirely...even among law enforcement eventually. Up to this point, it looks like Ford gambled and lost. I bet they didn't expect the success of the Hemi sedans and I'll go further to say I bet that the V8 Impala caught them somewhat by surprise. The 3.5 V6 may be a glimmer of hope...but if Impala switches to RWD and adds a strong V6 and keeps a V8 model for the SS and for the police fleet...then Ford will be in a precarious situation.

[KinneticBrian]

Don't even get me started on "PMS-NBC". They rank right up there with Dan Rather and the Weekly World News for journalistic quality.

 

So the resale value isn't great. The cars are also among the most dependable, safest, best value for the money buys on the market. They do things that none of their competitors can in terms of moving people and cargo in large quantities with efficiency.

 

But... they're dated at best in their styling - which is one of the things that kills resale value. Plus, because of their durability they're the darlings of the service and government fleets, further driving the value on retail units down.

 

The only thing "worst" about these cars is the lack of updating and marketing from Ford.

[Watchdevil]

I have to say that the Panthers should not be killed off. Why? because it is such a great frame. They redid the frame itself so extensivley in 2003 that it is even better than previously. the Panther is a great frame. I think, though, that Ford should have at least ATTEMPTED to restyle the bodys of the cars at least once in the past 16 years. Sure, there was the redesign in 98, but it didnt change much from the 91's. I don't understand why Ford let the cars just languish design and performance wise. The 300 hp Marauder should be the stock motor for a car that heaby...239 hp are you kidding me? 300 hp just gets the car moving, I can't imagine ony 239. But the cars are great, strong, sturdy, safe, i love mine. just wish they would redesign them once ina generation.

 

I agree that the platform itself should not necessarily be killed off. Ford did miss the boat when they should have surprised the automotive world and styled the Panthers to look like the 427 concept. Ford should have already had a plan in place to definitely use the design to preview somthing that was planned instead of testing reaction to see if it would work, then later modifying the plans for the Fusion which looks like they applied the 427 styling at the last minute without all the details intact. Back in the day carmarkers took risks with design and made things happen. There should be enough passionate car enthusiasts in the company to determine what would be a good risk to take without relying so much on a public reaction to a show car.

 

I never get tired of the 427 design. It's clean and I like the long hood, pushed forward front wheels and 1970's inspired greenhouse and slanted rear deck.

[Watchdevil]

I agree that the platform itself should not necessarily be killed off. Ford did miss the boat when they should have surprised the automotive world and styled the Panthers to look like the 427 concept. Ford should have already had a plan in place to definitely use the design to preview something that had definite plans instead of testing reaction to see if it would work, then later modifying the plans for the Fusion which looks like they applied the 427 styling at the last minute without all the details intact. So we end up with a Fusion that has the 427 headlamps and grille but different greenhouse and rear. We also ended up with a FWD car with a V6 instead of a RWD with a V8 and no comittment to have a model right off the bat that had a full performance option.

 

Back in the day carmarkers took risks with design and made things happen. There should be enough passionate car enthusiasts in the company to determine what would be a good risk to take without relying so much on public reaction to a show car.

 

After a couple of years now, I never get tired of the 427 design. It's clean and I like the long hood, pushed forward front wheels and 1970's inspired greenhouse and slanted rear deck. Something about it reminds me of the Torino-based LTD II's in the late 70's which I always liked, but were so big. It also favors the downsized full-sized LTD's from 1979. I think some of that look scaled down is nice. It works because trends away from rounded forms to edgier styling make the older cars look more attractive. The 427 would have also made a perfect 2-door coupe to pick up where the last four seat Thunderbird left off.

[Traveler]

The 'long hood' is the staple to any classic American car. That is one thing about the Five-Hundred. The front of the car really looks classy in some colors, but its not long enough to pull off the styling. To me, I think the Five-Hundred SEL from the front could pass for a Lexus (almost), but the car is just too symmetrical. Its profile too Taurus or Volkswagen like. If you took the same styling the current Five-Hundred and stretched it, it would look sort of like the older Lexus LS 400 IMHO.

[StevenJ]

MSNBC reported this huh?

 

Well MSNBC... NOBODY WATCHES YOUR PROGRAMMING :titanic: :titanic: SO WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS! This is part of the problem with the media in this country... They try and tell the ignorant masses what to do and what to buy...

 

I'll bet my life behind a Crown Vic (LTD), a Grand Marquis or a Town Car any day of the week before some foreign pile of shit that gets crushed like an accordian being played at a polka party!

msnbc: MORE SHIT NEWS BROADCASTING COMPANY

 

:kissass: :kissass: :kissass: :kissass:

 

SUCK IT! :whipped: :banmolest:

 

Now now Piston, tell us how you really feel.....

[sa_seahawker]

Anybody notice that about 8 of those vehicles are popular rental cars and have become a dime a dozen??? Of course, like I said before (with regards to the CV/GM), not many people like to buy a car that takes them to jail or to the airport! LOL

[Bored of Pisteon]

The brainiac humanoids :cheerleader: at MSNBC, as well as Consumer Reports, Motor Trend and the rest of the toilet paper magazines should read this!

 

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO01/608100380

 

I trust JD Power when it comes to judging a vehicle for dependability. The top 2 vehicles under the Large car division were Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Victoria.

 

So take that you :cheerleader: :cheerleader: and eat it piled high!

 

 

And kiss my ass while your at it! :kissass: :kissass: :kissass:

[Topgun]

The brainiac humanoids :cheerleader: at MSNBC, as well as Consumer Reports, Motor Trend and the rest of the toilet paper magazines should read this!

 

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO01/608100380

 

I trust JD Power when it comes to judging a vehicle for dependability. The top 2 vehicles under the Large car division were Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Victoria.

 

So take that you :cheerleader: :cheerleader: and eat it piled high!

 

 

And kiss my ass while your at it! :kissass: :kissass: :kissass:

While your at it send a copy of the JD Power survey to Bill Ford and Mark Fields