TStag Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/04/18/for-tata-motors-jaguar-a-gold-mine/ Deal of the decade? They sure saw Ford coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 http://www.forbes.co...ar-a-gold-mine/ Deal of the decade? They sure saw Ford coming! Ford now has enough cash in reserve to buy J-LR twice over...and they have long term engine supply contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Oh yeah....they sure pulled the wool over Fords eyes on that one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Ford now has enough cash in reserve to buy J-LR twice over...and they have long term engine supply contracts Really? So JLR aren't building a new engine plant in the UK at the i24 sight in Wolverhampton where they will replace most of the engines Ford supplies with an in house alternative? Oh and also not planning to buil one in India too? Sorry JLRs value has gone from 2 billion to 14 billion dollars in the space of a couple of years. Alan Mullaly has robbed Fords shareholders of 12 billion and Tata now say they won't float because 14 billion is far lower than where their compentant management team see JLR in the next few years. Time for Mullaly to admit he got this 12 billion times wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry JLRs value has gone from 2 billion to 14 billion dollars in the space of a couple of years According to whom? :lol: There isn't a company on the planet that would pay $14 billion for JLR. If no one will buy it for that, it's not worth that. How much has Tata been paying you to keep posting this dreck? Edited April 19, 2012 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Really? So JLR aren't building a new engine plant in the UK at the i24 sight in Wolverhampton where they will replace most of the engines Ford supplies with an in house alternative? Oh and also not planning to buil one in India too? Yes, that's more money Tata is spending and until that time every engine comes from Ford, what were your sales last year. 200,000? Each one of those vehicles has a Ford built engine. ultimately J-LR will build its own engines but that's OK because Ford needs the engine space. Sorry JLRs value has gone from 2 billion to 14 billion dollars in the space of a couple of years. Alan Mullaly has robbed Fords shareholders of 12 billion and Tata now say they won't float because 14 billion is far lower than where their compentant management team see JLR in the next few years. Time for Mullaly to admit he got this 12 billion times wrong! Only if Tata turns round and sells J-LR for $14 Billion.....they wont. And by avoiding spending $2 billion a year on new J-LR products, Ford saves itself huge sums it now spends on its own products, no wonder Ford is going from strength to strength. So In that respect, selling off the PAG companies and turning that cash into new products was of far more benefit than expending billions into the marques to get them where they are today. J-LR may be worth $14 billion and good luck to Tata because they have spent big to get there, 1.5 billion pounds per year on top of the sale price something Ford wasn't willing to do. Edited April 19, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Actually they've made over 320000 cars in the last 12 months not 200000. And the argument is as much about when Ford sold as it is should Ford have sold. Right now JLR makes more money that Ford Europe. Volume is greater for Ford Europe than the whole of JLR yet Ford Europe made a paltry 17 million pounds last year against JLRs 1.2 billion. Maybe Ford likes Fleet sales or something but it seems to put quantity before profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Actually they've made over 320000 cars in the last 12 months not 200000. And the argument is as much about when Ford sold as it is should Ford have sold. Right now JLR makes more money that Ford Europe. Volume is greater for Ford Europe than the whole of JLR yet Ford Europe made a paltry 17 million pounds last year against JLRs 1.2 billion. Maybe Ford likes Fleet sales or something but it seems to put quantity before profit! Ok thanks for the figure, 320K sure is a lot of vehicles and well over $1 billion in engine sales.. I'm happy knowing that JLR went to a good home, not so sure about Volvo and Geely... At the time, Ford wanted to concise its portfolio and make its own brand better and part of that was to remove the distraction of trying to run several other brands. The way that Ford Americas is coming back to life, it won't matter what FoE, or FAPA really does.. PS, can you confirm that the new Engine plan will build low emission four cylinder engines? Will they also build V6 and V8 engines there or continue buying them from Ford? Edited April 20, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Maybe Ford likes Fleet sales or something but it seems to put quantity before profit! Ford just had its most profitable year in over a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ford just had its most profitable year in over a decade. Ford just had its most profitable year in over a decade. Yes but what a bad decade and FOE is hardly making any money. To answer JPD From what I've read JLR will begin making 4 cylinders first followed shortly after by 6 cylinders. As they don't sell many V8s I think they will buy them in. Talking to a JLR engineer the priority is the 4 cylinder because Ford aren't selling JLR as many as they need to satisfy demand. At the moment the RR range is getting all the 4 pots which is hurting Jags XF sales. As I understand it Jag delayed the XF Estate because of engine restrictions from Ford. Thats not official but it's the real motivation for the engine plant according to my source who manages a key aspect of engineering design at Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxcomet Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yea, and Tata has a great "reputation" as a world class engine builder? If I were in the market for a Jaguar (and yes, I do admit to lusting after the XJ and the XK), I'd have to think long and hard about buying a car with a powerplant designed by the same folks that built the Tata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yes but what a bad decade and FOE is hardly making any money. FOE's problems are structural, not product-based. The whole of Europe right now is a disaster. And yes, it was a bad decade, but there was only year previous to 2011 (1999 I believe) in which Ford ever made more profits. Throw in that Ford has cut its debt burden in half while amassing these profits and you have the makings of a very successful company lately. Zero argument to be made to the contrary. None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yea, and Tata has a great "reputation" as a world class engine builder? Tata Technologies Limited (a Tata Group member company) has an excellent reputation globally for its automotive design and engineering capabilties, including powertrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yes but what a bad decade and FOE is hardly making any money. To answer JPD From what I've read JLR will begin making 4 cylinders first followed shortly after by 6 cylinders. As they don't sell many V8s I think they will buy them in. Talking to a JLR engineer the priority is the 4 cylinder because Ford aren't selling JLR as many as they need to satisfy demand. At the moment the RR range is getting all the 4 pots which is hurting Jags XF sales. As I understand it Jag delayed the XF Estate because of engine restrictions from Ford. Thats not official but it's the real motivation for the engine plant according to my source who manages a key aspect of engineering design at Jag OK thanks for that TStag, do you think J-LR would go for a slightly larger capacity I-4 (2.3-2.5) to suit their needs better? I'm thinking that with DI Turbo, engines in those ranges would be making +300 hp and well over 300 lb ft torque all with excellent fuel economy, especially when going into heavyish vehicles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 From what I've read JLR will begin making 4 cylinders first followed shortly after by 6 cylinders. ASAP, please, like next week. V-8's, too. TATA can do it and it will simplify Ford's production, because IIRC, Aston will be the sole remaining customer. Too bad Jag's gone with mechanical supercharging for the V-6 in the XKF or whatever the new smaller sportscar is called. Fuel economy from a mechanical blower just can't match the turbo systems BMW and Porsche and Audi are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I have a feeling that J=LR will concentrate on I-4 DI Turbo as that is where the bulk of sales will be. I'd expect thta gasoline V6 & V8 as well as diesel I-4 and V6 will all still be sourced from Ford for now but when J-LR begins it's next product cycles, expect to see some major changes in engines... I have a hunch that Jaguar will revisit its roots with a new I-6 and V12 using common parts.. The classic Jaguar needs to be different to other makers and those two engine types underscore Jaguar to a lot of people. Edited April 23, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I have a hunch that Jaguar will revisit its roots with a new I-6 and V12 using common parts.. The classic Jaguar needs to be different to other makers and those two engine types underscore Jaguar to a lot of people. They should do that, and offer supercharged models, too. Look at it this way: the next Mustang gets IRS, just like a Jag. An EB 3.5 could really make a lot of Jags look rather slow. Then there's the Shelby versions, which might have 900+ hp. Makes Jags look kinda weak, don't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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