Paul Selby Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 We could make a movie out of this story! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! :titanic: Have fun! Typical Ford Story… Bought a truck from Ford and had a problem with it… I called my dealership… So… I called Ford customer service department I felt like I was calling on the moon… I was putted on hold for a while… Then I got transfered to another Ford “qualified†representative… So…. I called back the manager at the dealership… Who said he said he would call me back…. So far no results… And Bill seems not to care about the problem! :titanic: :titanic: LOL! That's some funny shit Lemon! You're always good for a laugh. Sad part is it's pretty accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) OK Clown time is over. Anybody here have enough sence to ask where the other half of the control arm mounting bushing is ? Im sure those arms are not just mounted with one bushing on the front side of the control arm mounting boss. I would think that the mounting boss would have 2 bushings or sleeves pressed in to it. One front one back to stabilize the arm on the bolt. here it looks like the arm twisted and pulled back off the bushing then fractured. This is either A. a design flaw or B. and imporperly assembled part. C An improperly designed part over loaded in transport Either way Ford is going to have check each truck that comes in for service that was assembeled on that shift or used that lot of control from the supplier to make sure that this is an isolated incident. To check that the arms are not bending and pulling off the bushing. Or check each and every truck for signs of imporper transport. Remember the trucks are still property of FMC when in transport. And their responsibilty to repair or replce any parts damaged in transport. This fracture is NOT in impact fracture but an over load fracture. The part was stressed over it's engineered design partameters. From either over load IE tie down or improper assembley. If it was a impact fracture the piece would have shattered fracture and Not torn apart as this one has. Even if the crack propigated from an impact point it would have not torn and deformed the bushing boss. But would have just cracked. This arm started to fail where the boss is deformed on the top an impossible place to get a road impact. There is no possible way to overload a part like this on road, the tires and rims would fail first . Even if they are only using one bushing, as an engineer I can tell you that is shit shod slap ass way to do things. Any 1st year engineering student can tell you what the end result will be if just one bushing used in this application. With any undo down ward stess is applied to just one side of the arm. There are no indications from the pic of the arm being torqued down in the location that would cause such a failer. You think the Firestone fiasco was a F up for Ford , this will undo every thign that ford has accoplished in the past few years and more. If this does not turn to be an isoloated incident and Ford brushed off a complaint that could have alerted them to it. Then they deserve all the fall out and trashed rep that will come with it. Anouther JACK ASS award to Ford's C/S dept. Matthew Edited August 14, 2006 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 This isnt the first time it's happened with cast ford control arms. the fist GT's had a recall about this..pretty big f'up if you ask me. thats a major safety issue. imagine driving your new 160k GT down the highway at 75 mph and having the control arm snap. check around online, chances are its not the first time its happened. here's some details on the GT's part recall. I wonder if its the same supplier???? http://www.automotive.com/2005/49/ford/gt/recalls/10247.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 This isnt the first time it's happened with cast ford control arms. the fist GT's had a recall about this..pretty big f'up if you ask me. thats a major safety issue. imagine driving your new 160k GT down the highway at 75 mph and having the control arm snap. check around online, chances are its not the first time its happened. here's some details on the GT's part recall. I wonder if its the same supplier???? http://www.automotive.com/2005/49/ford/gt/recalls/10247.html The Ford GT issue was related to a new casting technique never previously used on a production car, so I doubt the two issues are even remotely related. As for the GT's failure to begin with, it didn't even occur except in one isolated instance on a Ford GT test car that had already accumulated over 100,000 road miles, if memory serves....so the chances of it actually occurring on one sold to a customer was slim to none. Ford erred on the side of caution and replaced them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uvaengr Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 Yep... CUSTOMER :banmolest: :banmolest: :banmolest: :banmolest: SERVICE! :banmolest: :banmolest: :banmolest: :banmolest: I E-MAILED THE FORD CUSTOMER SERVICE WEB SITE, AND AFTER A MONTH, FORD FINALLY RESPONDED WITH THE FOLLOWING: Dear Michael, "Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center with the requested information. Warranty coverage is limited to defects occurring under normal use of the vehicle during the warranty period. It has been determined by your dealership that this failure did not occur due to a factory defect. We support the decision of your dealership who has inspected your vehicle. You will be responsible for all costs associated with this issue. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you. Sincerely, Alice Customer Relationship Center Ford Motor Company" WHY DID THIS TAKE A MONTH? A "FORM LETTER" RESPONSE LIKE THIS SHOULDN'T TAKE MORE THAN 5 MINUTES. YOU CAN SEE HOW MUCH FORD CARES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdmust Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I have never seen a steel unit fail like that. I drive in an area that really stresses suspension components to the max. Glad my Mustang has a steel suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones944 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I have heard of strange occurances like this in motorcycle wheels where a rider will come to a stop light and the wheel will simply come apart. Atleast she wasnt traveling too fast when it happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) I E-MAILED THE FORD CUSTOMER SERVICE WEB SITE, AND AFTER A MONTH, FORD FINALLY RESPONDED WITH THE FOLLOWING: Dear Michael, Warranty coverage is limited to defects occurring under normal use of the vehicle during the warranty period. It has been determined by your dealership that this failure did not occur due to a factory defect. We support the decision of your dealership who has inspected your vehicle. You will be responsible for all costs associated with this issue. Sincerely, Alice Customer Relationship Center Ford Motor Company" From the original post: ".....in our 2004 Expedition with 45,000 miles" So Ford, listen up. You're telling your customer who owns a 2 year old vehicle (that happens to have slightly higher than average usage on it) that a problem like this "wasn't a defect". You also then say that because the warranty mileage was exceeded by 9k miles that the customer "....will be responsible for all costs associated with this issue". You scumbags! And you wonder WHY consumers continue to run from your product line. Let me tell 'ya that it isn't ONLY because of gas mileage concerns. This isn't a lousy piece of door trim that fell off, or a plastic door handle that broke. This involves a MAJOR piece of suspension componentry that the passenger's safety and vehicle stability and integrity DEPEND on! Wow........ unbelievable. This particular story is a PRIME example of a case where Ford could really help themselves garner some postive PR by helping this poor guy. But instead they opt to screw the guy over and allow him to spread the whole sordid tale around the Internet and his circle of friends and acquaintances. Hey Markie F.: How about showing us some Bold F'ing Moves in the cesspool you call your Dealership Body and Service/Warranty Departments and stop stories like this one in their tracks before the person has to go "nuclear" and post it everywhere? As I've said before, warranty work and dealership experience(s) are one of my biggest gripes with the FoMoCo product ownership experience. -Ovaltine Edited August 21, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 (edited) No Ovaltine, look at the part you bolded again. Basically, it has two parts to it: 1) Ford won't cover damage that was done in non-regular-use driving conditions. 2) The dealership is the one who assesses whether the damage was done under normal driving conditions. Basically, Ford is saying "we won't cover it" because the dealer said "you guys did this to your car" which in turn means the dealer is blaming the owner and is suggesting, possibly, that the owner did some extreme driving to break the control arm. In essence, the linchpin to this decision was the dealer reporting the damage was not done during normal driving conditions. That's all Ford knows about the car - what some dumbass at the dealership tells them. It's probably like this at all car companies. I would suspect, however, that this decision to say "you did it" was less likely to have happened if you had brought in a sedan and not an SUV. Edited August 21, 2006 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 As I've said before, warranty work and dealership experience(s) are one of my biggest gripes with the FoMoCo product ownership experience.-Ovaltine I'm with you 100%. What ever happened to Ford sending out a District representative when the dealer and customer couldn't work things out? Budget cuts? At least send someone out to lie and act like they care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) No Ovaltine, look at the part you bolded again. Basically, it has two parts to it: 1) Ford won't cover damage that was done in non-regular-use driving conditions. 2) The dealership is the one who assesses whether the damage was done under normal driving conditions. Basically, Ford is saying "we won't cover it" because the dealer said "you guys did this to your car" which in turn means the dealer is blaming the owner and is suggesting, possibly, that the owner did some extreme driving to break the control arm. Roadrunner: Ford can run and hide behind their legalese to skirt this repair, but those pictures and the basic facts here speak *volumes* in my book. Look.... I grew up in a rural area and my Dad was a part time farmer in addition to being a millwright at a local auto parts supplier factory. Back in the early '70s he purchased a used '66 GMC pickup from his brother, an electrical contractor. That GMC had one of the early versions of GM's double wishbone front suspensions. After being used hard by my uncle, that truck went through hell and back on our farm for the next 20 years, and actually was *finally* decommisioned entirely just a year or so ago according to my brother who continued on the family's farming tradition. After all those years of weather, use, and abuse, that truck never encountered any suspension problems stemming from "non-regular-use driving conditions". Remember... this was a *farm* truck. Non-regular use is nearly its primary job. Driving through plowed fields, trails and two-tracks with stumps and rocks happened all the time. So what's my point? My point is, why nearly 40 years after that GMC was built, can't Ford make a suspension on a supposedly "Built Ford Tough" 4x4 that can take a few bumps and bruises and last more than 45k miles? I'm not trying to be combative here with you, so please don't misread my tone here. Manufactured products aren't perfect.... crap happens. Agreed. The original posters problem could have been due to that one errant unlucky part that slipped through, or to damage done by transportation (which still means those arms are fragile... but that's a topic for another thread). The real problem starts with how this customer is treated/handled after the problem occurs. When will Ford (and other manufacturers) get it through their heads that in this day and age of the Internet, it just doesn't pay to hide behind the legalese of warranties and "problem determination inspections by the dealer" as the final word when the customer continues to express dissatisfaction? Especially in a case like this one where their "bread-and-butter" profit making flagship vehicles are concerned. How many people are going to see just this thread on here alone, and say "WTF? Scratch that choice off my list!" I just read where Expeditions generate $13-14k in before incentive profits for Ford. If this thread turns away 4-5 purchasers (a random but realistic number I chose), then we're talking upwards of $70k that's been lost on a $1-2k repair that would have satisfied the customer and most likely kept them quiet. I just guess there just must be a few fans of this movie in the Glass House: ( Any Talking Heads fans in the house? ) Btw... GO TIGERS! 7-1 OVER THE WHITE SOX 2-NITE! -Ovaltine Edited August 22, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) While there's always the chance the a-arm hit something before the time of the fracture, it should not be assumed that's what occured. This vehicle is eligable for P05 other wise known as AWA (After Warranty Assistance) since it is under 6years/75,000 miles. If the vehicle owner has been even a little loyal to Ford or the dealership it should or could have been offered. Owner pays say 20% dealer pays 20% and Ford picks up the rest. Now be aware ANY and EVERY part replaced under Ford warranty is subject to being called back for an analysis and if Ford decides the fracture WAS caused by an impact they will charge the dealer back for the repair at which time the dealer could contact the owner and say, we tried to help but i'm sorry to say the claim has been refused. Let Ford take the blame not the dealership. P05 = Dealer approved AWA. "AWA is important because it encourages on-the-spot-resolution and increases the likelyhood of satisfying customers." Sounds like this could have been handled better, and as far as Fords 800- customer assitance Edited August 22, 2006 by Ron W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 While there's always the chance the a-arm hit something before the time of the fracture, it should not be assumed that's what occured. This vehicle is eligable for P05 other wise known as AWA (After Warranty Assistance) since it is under 6years/75,000 miles. If the vehicle owner has been even a little loyal to Ford or the dealership it should or could have been offered. Owner pays say 20% dealer pays 20% and Ford picks up the rest. Now be aware ANY and EVERY part replaced under Ford warranty is subject to being called back for an analysis and if Ford decides the fracture WAS caused by an impact they will charge the dealer back for the repair at which time the dealer could contact the owner and say, we tried to help but i'm sorry to say the claim has been refused. Let Ford take the blame not the dealership. P05 = Dealer approved AWA. "AWA is important because it encourages on-the-spot-resolution and increases the likelyhood of satisfying customers." Sounds like this could have been handled better, and as far as Fords 800- customer assitance Ron W., A dealer did what he called a "Good will" repair on my 88 Mustang. The throw-out bearing and bearing retainer went bad at 15,000. I only paid $100 of a $300 + repair. Was this a real program Ford had at one time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 1988 vehicle at 15k miles, when was the repair done? Since you're posting under your real name unlike some of the gutless wonders i'd be happy to check for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 1988 vehicle at 15k miles, when was the repair done? Since you're posting under your real name unlike some of the gutless wonders i'd be happy to check for you. It was done by Snipes Ford in Goldsboro N.C. back in 1990-91 time frame. Thanks for the offer but no need to check, I was just curious to whether this was a dealer or Ford program/policy and if you had heard of it. I went to the dealer ready to pay the full repair price. I knew it wasn't covered under warranty but made a comment to the service manager that I didn't think the bearing should have gone bad this fast. He agreed and asked if paying the normal (at that time) $100 deductable would make me happy. I could't say yes and thank you fast enough! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 OK in 1988 the base or bumper to bumper warranty was 12/12 with a 6/60 powertrain warranty that had a $100.00 deductable. Doesn't seem to be a "goodwill" repair since it was Ford policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 OK in 1988 the base or bumper to bumper warranty was 12/12 with a 6/60 powertrain warranty that had a $100.00 deductable. Doesn't seem to be a "goodwill" repair since it was Ford policy. True but the throw-out bearing was considered a "wear item" not covered by the warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLemon Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Any news from that guy "uvaengr" ??? Did Ford lost another customer? :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Focus Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I'll start with the basic disclaimers: I'm not an engineer. I don't pretend to be one. I don't know UVAENGR. This is my first post here. I'm a repeat multiple Ford fan and owner. OK, now about this control arm. . . did anyone else see the nicks/scratches on the wheel side (away from the break?) Could these be from a chain? What if the owner actually had this towed or it was towed in a previous incident? We do not know the history of this vehicle. What if it was stuck and someone towed it from the control arm? Obviously this didn't just "happen" at the bank drive-through. I have an F150 that I beileve has these same control arms (cast aluminum) and if they're going to be that Fragile, maybe I'll trade it in for an '03 or '04 Heritage. If this truly is a design defect and how Ford chooses to handle it, I'll be buying a Honda next time. I don't say that lightly or without a good bit of sadness for such an historic brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 (edited) OK, now about this control arm. . . did anyone else see the nicks/scratches on the wheel side (away from the break?) Could these be from a chain? What if the owner actually had this towed or it was towed in a previous incident? We do not know the history of this vehicle. What if it was stuck and someone towed it from the control arm? Obviously this didn't just "happen" at the bank drive-through. I have an F150 that I beileve has these same control arms (cast aluminum) and if they're going to be that Fragile, maybe I'll trade it in for an '03 or '04 Heritage. Since these pics are so high-res, it does give us a lot more to work with on here. You were adept at spotting those marks. However, due to the resolution, it appears to me that the marks are VERY fresh in the photo. So fresh that I think they were made when the steering rod broke off of the tie rod. If you notice, the steering rod is black, and there's some black marks near the fresh looking gouge in the arm. The broken off tie rod would be sharp where it broke off, so it could have made the gouge as the suspension collapsed and the geometry of everything changed and the weight of the vehicle came down. Remember...*something* had to happen to break that tie rod off! I suspect that the Ford dealer may have used those marks as the "evidence" that there was abuse. And like yourself, I think that this appears to be a fragile design when compared to other stamped steel version of similar parts (see my '66 GMC post above) -Ovaltine Edited September 16, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cip Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Hey Scrutenizer, what are you smokin? I've seen good Ford Employees and bad; I've seen good dealer people and bad as well. No one teaches deception at Ford, no matter what you think. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder that you're proud of. Find a good Ford dealer because they're out there. Regarding law suits, Ford gets sued for all kinds of stuff, some of it proper but most of it is bull crap. But, what can you expect? bringing suit is an American pastime. respectfully submitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLemon Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 (edited) Any news from that guy "uvaengr" ??? So Ford did lost another customer.... They go like that one by one..... Edited September 25, 2006 by TheLemon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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