rprobst Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I decided this weekend to order my Fusion Energi. Called up the dealer closest to me, asked the sales rep I have been working with if they would enter an order under X-Plan. He said he would confirm with his sales manager -- short hold (nice music), then yes, they can do that. So I went to the Build & Price page by way of the X-Plan site, put on the options I want, printed out the summary and took that into the dealer. The sales rep took my paperwork, said he needed a $1000 deposit, then said he would have to get this approved by the General Manager, who doesn't work Sundays but would be in on Monday. I left without a VOC, and without a good sense of what had just happened. On Monday, the sales rep called and told me that the GM said they would not offer X-Plan pricing for the Fusion Energi. But they did have a dealer-order in the pipeline with all the features I want (plus parking assist), did I want to put my name on that? Sure, I don't need parking assist but I would accept it; will they give me that car with X-Plan pricing? No, but since I am such a good customer, they will give it to me for MSRP, with no dealer markup. Grumble, grumble, that is not what you said yesterday. Give me back my $1000! Then I called the dealer next closest to home and asked them if they would order a Fusion Energi for me under X-Plan pricing? Let me check with my manager -- short hold (nice music), then no, they are not selling either the Fusion Energi or the C-Max Energi under X-Plan pricing. I have now sent email to a 3rd dealer, slightly farther away; stil waiting for an answer. Has anyone successfully ordered a Fusion Energi under X-Plan pricing? Doesn't help if it's listed on the X-Plan site but no dealers are willing to offer it. If you know of a dealer who will, anywhere in Northern California, please let me know. I am willing to go pretty far to save a few thousand dollars on this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Called the 1st dealer today about getting my deposit back. Sales rep not in, sales manager not in, so they connected me to the finance manager. 2 positive outcomes: - he's going to refund my deposit immediately - he's going to look into why they are not offering X-Plan pricing on Fusion Energi Maybe they will re-think their policy... Meanwhile, heard from the 3rd dealer. They invited me to drive down for a test drive. I said I've driven the Fusion Hybrid and the C-Max Energi, so no need for another test drive until the Fusion Energi is in. Before I drive down to chat, just let me know if you will order a Fusion Energi under X-Plan? They will get back to me... Meanwhile, my local Honda dealer says they will have an Accord Plug-in to test drive around the end of February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Have you gone through Fordpartner.com? They have the xplan listed for the SE & Titanium Energi. Then you can click the link to take you to build & price with the xplan prices. SE Energi starts at $36470 and Titanium starts at $38870 before rebates. EDIT: Never mind, saw that your issue is that dealers aren't willing to sell you under xplan. Edited January 24, 2013 by jinx8402 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Can't really blame the dealers for wanting to make a decent profit on a limited supply vehicle. OTOH it's good PR and would probably gain more in the long run than a few thousand in extra profit on a few Energis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Right, I do not blame the dealers for trying to maximize their profit. But I will keep trying until I find one who is willing to take part in the X-Plan program for this car. They may not make as much profit as they would on an MSRP sale, but at least they'll have made the sale that someone else said no to.Framingham Ford in Massachusetts just sold an Energi at X-Plan pricing, so i bet somebody in California should be willing and able.And I will be really good PR. My company is very electric-friendly, with charging stations all over. The other day I saw a Volt, a Prius Plug-in, a Fisker and a Leaf sitting in a row at work. But no Fords. I can help Ford fix that. Edit: They're back! Edited January 24, 2013 by rprobst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Just heard back from a dealer who said the reason they are not willing to offer X-Plan pricing on a Fusion Energi is because they have limited allocation for this car. I said that I had heard that customer retail orders do not count against dealer allocations, but are additional units. He said: "In years past, it was different. Retail orders actually count against allocation these days." Wow, that would explain their reluctance. Why did Ford change this policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salva Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Just heard back from a dealer who said the reason they are not willing to offer X-Plan pricing on a Fusion Energi is because they have limited allocation for this car. I said that I had heard that customer retail orders do not count against dealer allocations, but are additional units. He said: "In years past, it was different. Retail orders actually count against allocation these days." Wow, that would explain their reluctance. Why did Ford change this policy? Hmmm. The dealer that took my order on the Hybrid SE said the exact opposite - in years past, it used to count against allocation, now (or then, it was in October) it doesn't, so it is easier to get an order on X-Plan for new models.. A second dealer, after dragging their feet for a few days, said they would take an order on X-Plan (by then, I had already placed the order on the first one). So, maybe it changed (back). Maybe it depends on the model (the dealer that took my order only mentioned the usual exclusions from X-Plan). Or, perhaps, it's bs on either of the dealers part. If I were you, I wouldn't give up (yet).... Edited January 25, 2013 by Salva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 The standard is that all orders count against dealer allocation. Ford instituted a program called Retail Order Verification where each order is verified using the buyer's driver's license (to prevent dealers from "inventing" retail customers) but it's only used on specific vehicles. I believe the early Fusion orders were done with ROV but not sure if the current orders fit that bill. Even so it may not apply to the Energis. I think Ford should use ROV all the time so that unsuspecting buyers don't get caught waiting because a dealer doesn't have allocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salva Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yes, I think the orders (or at least mine - hybrid, x-plan) were subject to that verification program. And in my case, that apparently wasn't known to the dealer at the time of the order. They called me back a week or so after the order to sign a "purchase order", saying it was a Ford requirement they didn't know about. I agree with your observation re allocation. I certainly think mine didn't count or else I doubt either dealer would sell at that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyj3ray Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't know why the dealers are having such an issue selling at X-plan pricing. They get compensated from Ford for selling at that discount. I understand it probably isn't as much as they would make with mark up, but it's a sale and good PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I don't know why the dealers are having such an issue selling at X-plan pricing. They get compensated from Ford for selling at that discount. I understand it probably isn't as much as they would make with mark up, but it's a sale and good PR. I guess they feel they can "fleece" and unsuspecting customer and make $$$ off them. I guess they feel they can get ADM's on the Engeri like they can with a GT500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 X plan for the dealer is roughly $500-$600 over invoice after the spiff check, plus they can only charge $100 doc fee. If they're able to sell a vehicle close to MSRP with a $400 doc fee that's quite a difference. In the long run though it does seem to be penny wise pound foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 If all the dealers within my "buying radius" can keep to the same policy of excluding Fusion Energi from X-Plan, then I would be forced to start haggling ( I can do it, but I really wanted to try the no-haggle approach that X-Plan provides). So it's a prisoner's dilemma game for them, with me as the cop. The first one to say yes gets the deal. Luckily I live in a metro region with lots of Ford dealers so I will keep looking for one who will say yes to X-Plan for the Energi. So far, 2 dealers said MSRP with no negotiation, 1 started to negotiate, 1 said they cannot today order an Energi and therefore they cannot today say whether or not they will offer X-Plan for the car (count the number of errors in that statement), and 1 sales rep owes me an answer after he talks to his GM. I figure there are easily a dozen more Ford dealers in Northern California that I can ask. It depends on how far I am willing to go -- literally and figuratively -- to get this pricing. I have never bought a car out-of-state, but I've heard that it's possible. Hope it doesn't come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 I guess they feel they can "fleece" and unsuspecting customer and make $$$ off them. I guess they feel they can get ADM's on the Engeri like they can with a GT500 What's an ADM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Oh, and that first dealer, where the sales rep and the sales manager said yes to X-Plan, then asked for a deposit, then said they needed GM approval, then called back and said no -- they still haven't returned my deposit. I've made 3 calls. The rep and 2 finance managers all said they would refund it immediately. Guess "immediately" means within 30 days. So yesterday I disputed the charge with my credit card company. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salva Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) X plan for the dealer is roughly $500-$600 over invoice after the spiff check, plus they can only charge $100 doc fee. If they're able to sell a vehicle close to MSRP with a $400 doc fee that's quite a difference. In the long run though it does seem to be penny wise pound foolish. Plus they get the infamous "dealer holdback", right, X-plan or not? Honest question, I don't really know. If so, I think that turns out to be about $900 more to the dealer, from the invoice the dealer showed me for the car I test drove. I wholeheartdly agree with penny wise, pound foolish. And I actually suspect "long run" is not really all that long. A dealer nearby is already advertising $1000 dealer discount from MSRP on '13 FFH (plus applicable rebates) That's already less than 1000 over X-Plan (X-plan was slightly less than 2k under MSRP). Factoring X-plan spiff, difference is probably 600 or so to the dealer. Between their web ad price and X-plan. I have no doubt anybody can walk in there today and get any of those units (most seem to be in transit) at X-plan. Just like you did with you Titanium (congrats, btw. Hope to see pictures soon, love the red :-) ). 3.5 months ago, same dealer took well over a week to get back to me and confirm they would take my order at X-plan pricing. Consequently, I placed the order at another dealer. Since I don't think it would have counted against their allocation, I fail to understand what they accomplished (or expected to, at the time) in business terms. So, Richard, keep trying. Or wait a bit. At least, that's what I'd do, based on my own experiences. Edited January 26, 2013 by Salva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 ADM = Additional Dealer Markup (over and above MSRP). Yes they still get holdback but I usually give them that just to cover their overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 So, Richard, keep trying. Or wait a bit. At least, that's what I'd do, based on my own experiences. Yeah, good advice. I don't have any deadline. I know this is the car I want, and I'm sure I want to get it at a good price. So I will keep looking for my X-Plan dealer, which will force me to wait a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 The saga continues... The first 3 Ford dealers I contacted are not selling the Fusion Energi under X-Plan. But I live in a metro region and there are 20 Ford dealers within 50 miles of my home, 16 of them EV-certified. One of them has to want to sell me an Energi under X-Plan. So I made a spreadsheet with all 20 dealers, with name, location, phone number, distance from my home, and columns to keep track of when I called, who I talked to, what they said, etc. Sorted the list on distance and started from the top. The first dealer I called -- the 4th on the list, after the first 3 who said no -- said yes. Well, not immediately. The telesales rep said she needed to check with her general manager (right answer). Took 3 days of back-and-forth to get his answer. But she said he said they will honor X-Plan for Energi. So I drove down today and met with a "sales consultant". He took all my info, then said that the sales representative who does X-Plan orders for them will be in on Monday, and will call me then. (What's the difference between a sales consultant and a sales representative?) So I am not counting my chickens yet, but I'm feeling good. After my experience with that first dealer, who said yes, took a deposit, then said the GM didn't approve (and they still haven't returned the deposit), I won't consider this a done-deal until I have the signed order confirmation in hand. But maybe I didn't need that spreadsheet of 20 dealers... BTW, while looking for my X-Plan dealer, I started to negotiate with the 3 who said no. Two of them said MSRP was their lowest price, while 1 offered $600 off MSRP. So X-Plan will be a considerable discount. Finally, what a difference in tone between that first dealer and the folks I visited today. The people I am now working with seem so much more professional. I didn't realize there could be such a wide range in quality in dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Happy news! I have just ordered a Fusion Energi Titanium under the X-Plan. Fourth time was the charm; the 4th dealer I called was willing and once the GM said OK, it moved pretty quickly. It was definitely worth finding a dealer who would support X-Plan for this vehicle. About $2700 under MSRP. And that does not count the $1500 "First 3 payments on Ford" incentive, nor the $750 "Private cash" coupon. The sales rep said he would apply these discounts when the car came in, if they were still valid. I'd say "All's well that ends well" except it doesn't end here, now the waiting for production and delivery start. But it feels really good to have placed the order. Oh, BTW, the sales rep said he wouldn't be surprised if it took until April for the car to show up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salva Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Happy news! I have just ordered a Fusion Energi Titanium under the X-Plan. Fourth time was the charm; the 4th dealer I called was willing and once the GM said OK, it moved pretty quickly. It was definitely worth finding a dealer who would support X-Plan for this vehicle. About $2700 under MSRP. And that does not count the $1500 "First 3 payments on Ford" incentive, nor the $750 "Private cash" coupon. The sales rep said he would apply these discounts when the car came in, if they were still valid. I'd say "All's well that ends well" except it doesn't end here, now the waiting for production and delivery start. But it feels really good to have placed the order. Oh, BTW, the sales rep said he wouldn't be surprised if it took until April for the car to show up... Congrats! I knew you would get the X-plan pricing and it shouldn't be too hard. Not that it makes any difference - I'm just curious about the whole process - but did you ever find out if your X-plan order counts or not against the dealer's allocation ? Edited February 7, 2013 by Salva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 This dealer never mentioned allocation one way or the other. But from what akirby said, I assume it counts against their allocation. This dealer is quite large, so I hope they have a big one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 No difference in allocation whether it's X plan or not. The only way it doesn't count is if it's done under Retail Order Verification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcastic6 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) The only thing that sounds a little weird is they should be able to lock in that $1500 incentive now. That way you're guaranteed at least that if incentives are the same or worse when you pick up the car. If there's something better going on at the time, you'll get that instead. That's what my (second) dealer told me, anyway, when I ordered mine X-Plan a few weeks ago. I can't imagine it'd be any different for the Energi? Edited February 7, 2013 by sarcastic6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rspray Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 My dealer told me that they cannot "lock in" the incentives until the VIN is issued. That is what I'm waiting on. I ordered an SE about 2 weeks ago. It sounds like the SE's might be building first.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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