Obamacare-Because this needs it's own thread

[RangerM]

 

I've only seen the initial studies, the 9 months before and after study comes to mind, but do you feel that the first nine months is an adequate time frame to judge what might happen?

 

I'd be interested in others if you have them.

There was an initial study that measured the increase in ER use at about 4% after the law was passed in 2006. (I'm assuming that may be one you were thinking of)

 

Then there was a respite around 2010 where ER use fell about 4%. However, a recent Massachusetts Medical Society survey measured a 6% increase in ER use in 2012.

 

The primary reason given for the increase in ER use was.....

 

.......the increased demand for services for the number of available doctors

...... pushed wait times out to the point where

.......people would forego making an appointment and just go to the ER.

 

(I wrote it like that, because it's not a singular thing, so much as a series of dominoes)

[Langston Hughes]

There was an initial study that measured the increase in ER use at about 4% after the law was passed in 2006. (I'm assuming that may be one you were thinking of)

 

Then there was a respite around 2010 where ER use fell about 4%. However, a recent Massachusetts Medical Society survey measured a 6% increase in ER use in 2012.

 

The primary reason given for the increase in ER use was.....

 

.......the increased demand for services for the number of available doctors

...... pushed wait times out to the point where

.......people would forego making an appointment and just go to the ER.

 

(I wrote it like that, because it's not a singular thing, so much as a series of dominoes)

 

The study i read listed low severity cases as a small amount of total ER patients, but judging by what you say they might be larger than the study thought.

 

the issue of patient waiting times and squeezing in more patients can and probably initially result in lower care, but I don't see that as a long term issue. More people will enter the field and stabilize it.

[Trimdingman]

It is a long term issue in Canada. If you have to see the doctor, plan to miss a day's work and spend the day in a crowded grubby waiting room for a brief consultation and maybe a prescription for a painkiller. Many people drop dead in Canadian waiting rooms. I have decided that government health care is worthless, so I don't have any health care. I haven't seen a doctor in many years, and I am over 65. I would like to get a check-up, but I don't trust the competence of socialized doctors and procedures. I would probably be misdiagnosed and die from medical malpractice.

[RangerM]

 

The study i read listed low severity cases as a small amount of total ER patients, but judging by what you say they might be larger than the study thought.

 

the issue of patient waiting times and squeezing in more patients can and probably initially result in lower care, but I don't see that as a long term issue. More people will enter the field and stabilize it.

Recent stories about how many Obamacare exchange plans--especially Medicaid--aren't being accepted by (or aren't including in their provider networks) many doctors/hospitals should bring you shivers. Insurance without the availability of service is worthless.

 

If there is no incentive to enter the field (because of reimbursement rates or requisite red tape), then there will be no stability; except that it'll wind up in a two-tier system where people with means will get their care privately and the rest will fend for themselves in a system mired in gridlock.

 

You may argue that we're there now, however what will happen is the middle-class will be adversely affected because they don't have the means to pay out of pocket, and unless they stay covered by something more than a "bronze" plan (which is expensive enough, by itself) they'll be competing with the newly-insured for services.

 

The system will be worse overall than it was before, because more people will be hurt than helped.

Edited December 7, 2013 by RangerM

[chevys]

According to Zeke Emanuel I can keep my doctor if I want to pay more to do it. Yet, another lie by BHO. I think this is where its really going to piss some people off when their doctors drop out of the exchanges. But who could blame them for wanting the goverment out of their business? It really makes you wonder if anybody thought any of this through.

[cal50]

According to Zeke Emanuel I can keep my doctor if I want to pay more to do it. Yet, another lie by BHO. I think this is where its really going to piss some people off when their doctors drop out of the exchanges. But who could blame them for wanting the goverment out of their business? It really makes you wonder if anybody thought any of this through.

 

Nope.

The same as the people in congress that voted it in without reading it or asking questions.

[FiredMotorCompany]

It really makes you wonder if anybody thought any of this through.

As if this was an accident?

 

I DO think this was thought through. By the Emanuels and Obama's puppet masters.

Obama just reads the script.

 

He's a "post turtle".

"You know he didn't get up there by himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, he's elevated beyond his ability to function, and you just wonder what kind of dumb a** put him up there to begin with."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone put Obama in office, to be used as their "tool".

A job he was raised to fill.

Edited December 10, 2013 by FiredMotorCompany

[Langston Hughes]

As if this was an accident?

 

I DO think this was thought through. By the Emanuels and Obama's puppet masters.

Obama just reads the script.

 

Someone put Obama in office, to be used as their "tool".

A job he was raised to fill.

 

LOL. Your funny.

 

If i was raising someone to be president in America, the last person I would choose is him. Your boy W is the most likely person to be the sorta Manchurian candidate your thinking of, not Obama. Of course they both had benefactors, that's obvious but Bush's failures in business and his subsequent move into the Rangers is filled with wealthy people who did him favors.

 

Had Jerri Ryans husband not been a freak this guy doesn't make the Senate.

 

Somewhere in the back of your mind you are suspending all probability if you believe this.

[FiredMotorCompany]

Somewhere in the back of your mind you are suspending all probability if you believe this.

"suspending all probability"? Hmmm.

 

Do you contend he is fully making his own decisions without influence from outside "non-traditional" influences such as advisors? Power brokers, lobbyists, and unnamed democrat manipulations are not a factor?

 

Maybe there is a sliding scale factor we could debate, but Obama is in over his head and he is given directives he must fulfill and policies he must present far from being his own mind's output. He is told what to say and what to do. When to avoid the press and when to sit with friendly forces.

 

Who's "suspending all possibility"?

[Langston Hughes]

"suspending all probability"? Hmmm.

 

Do you contend he is fully making his own decisions without influence from outside "non-traditional" influences such as advisors? Power brokers, lobbyists, and unnamed democrat manipulations are not a factor?

 

Maybe there is a sliding scale factor we could debate, but Obama is in over his head and he is given directives he must fulfill and policies he must present far from being his own mind's output. He is told what to say and what to do. When to avoid the press and when to sit with friendly forces.

 

Who's "suspending all possibility"?

 

Again, I would suggest that the previous president was more likely to be moved by his strong armed advisers, especially his Vice President.

 

 

 

Nice try though.

[Nick Burns]

I tried it out, but it was pretty terrible coverage for a pretty terrible price. I know everyone is all Duurrrrrrrrr obama's fault, but it just didn’t make economic sense, but then again i guess it's not for me, someone who has coverage through their work.

[chevys]

One of my friends just had his policy canceled through Blue Cross. He was paying 160 per month and now the new policy through them is going to cost him over 330 and it has a higher deductible to boot but hey he gets maternity coverage. He told me he will most likely just drop it because he cant afford it. This guy wont sign up for Ocare either. He said he will just pay the fine. Thanks liberals!!

[cal50]

At some point the fine will either increase substantially or the IRS will be the enforcement mechanism and garnish the amount someone in Washington decides you should pay.

 

Most people will choose the "opt out" and simple pay the fine or pay if they need treatment. There is no way the system can sustain itself with this math base.

Its watching a controlled implosion go out of control.

 

Thank you democrats!

[Langston Hughes]

One of my friends just had his policy canceled through Blue Cross. He was paying 160 per month and now the new policy through them is going to cost him over 330 and it has a higher deductible to boot but hey he gets maternity coverage. He told me he will most likely just drop it because he cant afford it. This guy wont sign up for Ocare either. He said he will just pay the fine. Thanks liberals!!

 

One of "your friends"???

 

So "your friend" got dropped by Blue Cross and refuses to sign up at his federal/state exchange? That's a good attitude, way to show us. Lets go without healthcare out of spite. YAY, conservatives.

[NickF1011]

 

One of "your friends"???

 

So "your friend" got dropped by Blue Cross and refuses to sign up at his federal/state exchange? That's a good attitude, way to show us. Lets go without healthcare out of spite. YAY, conservatives.

 

If what you expect to pay in premiums is more than what you expect to pay in out of pocket costs, then I can see lots of people going that route. I personally wouldn't as the risk is just too great in my eyes (at least until I see what my premiums look like next year after large businesses are no longer exempt).

 

Many younger people today probably only have coverage because it's cheap. Remove the reason many of them bother to carry a policy at all and a lot of these "young invincibles" will opt to go without.

 

It's sort of like me continuing to carry comprehensive insurance on my Cobra. About the only thing it's worth a hill of beans it covers anymore on a 17 year old car is what would be a somewhat okay payout for theft, but it only costs an extra $100 or so a year to add it in addition to liability coverage. If it suddenly jumped to $400 a year, I'd get rid of it.

Edited December 18, 2013 by NickF1011

[xr7g428]

It doesn't take very long to figure out that it is a lot less expensive to pay the penalty and then buy insurance if you need it later. The 20 somethings are maybe not the smartest ever generation, but this they seem to have figured out pretty quickly.

[RangerM]

Obama Lifts Health Mandate for Those With Canceled Plans

 

 

Hundreds of thousands of people whose health plans are being canceled because their coverage doesn’t meet Obamacare rules will be exempt next year from the U.S. mandate that all Americans carry medical insurance.

People losing coverage will now be allowed to buy bare-bones “catastrophic” insurance that the law usually limits to those younger than age 30, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said yesterday. Others can opt out completely without the threat of the fines being imposed next year on the uninsured as part of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

The change will affect fewer than 500,000 people as a Dec. 23 deadline looms to purchase policies for coverage that starts Jan. 1, according to Obama administration figures. Insurers said the exemptions may keep younger, healthier people from buying new coverage through Obamacare, a demographic that is needed to bring balance to the new government-run insurance marketplaces.

 

For those who said it was good that people lost those "loser plans", what say you now?

 

This isn't the first crack in the dam, but it's significant.

 

How do you prove you lost your coverage? Say so? And what of those who didn't have coverage, they still get fined if they don't purchase? Is that equal protection under the law?

 

The likely net result is the entire individual mandate will be delayed (or they'll just say it won't be enforced), because this new policy is untenable. And right in the middle of the 2014 elections, we'll be right back here; except for the addition of millions of newly (and adversely) affected persons who obtain health insurance through their employer.

Edited December 20, 2013 by RangerM

[chevys]

Here is what I dont understand. 6 million policies have been cancelled. Thats policies not people so you know more than 6 million have lost their insurance. How do only 500,000 get the exemption? This happens to be the 14th time literally BHO has changed his signature law. Even a socialist like BHO knows this a cluster.

[fmccap]

Obama Lifts Health Mandate for Those With Canceled Plans

 

 

 

For those who said it was good that people lost those "loser plans", what say you now?

 

This isn't the first crack in the dam, but it's significant.

 

How do you prove you lost your coverage? Say so? And what of those who didn't have coverage, they still get fined if they don't purchase? Is that equal protection under the law?

 

The likely net result is the entire individual mandate will be delayed (or they'll just say it won't be enforced), because this new policy is untenable. And right in the middle of the 2014 elections, we'll be right back here; except for the addition of millions of newly (and adversely) affected persons who obtain health insurance through their employer.

The King has spoken again!

 

This country is getting bad. How come nobody even wonders why he can just decide one day to change a LAW. Don't we have a process in this country to do that? Everybody is to busy fighting this side this and that side that. Nobody sees the big picture.

 

It's not looking good my fellow Americans.

[chevys]

I wonder and wonder why nobody is challenging it? King O and his regime just wing it on the fly with an ink pen. This is the biggest goverment **** up ever. I am being dead serious but a community organizer would be lucky to run a profitable hot dog stand let alone a Walmart store. BHO and his chronies have no experience in the real world of business and its showing. These guys are truly rookies and in way over their heads and have been for sometime.

[Langston Hughes]

I wonder and wonder why nobody is challenging it? King O and his regime just wing it on the fly with an ink pen. This is the biggest goverment **** up ever. I am being dead serious but a community organizer would be lucky to run a profitable hot dog stand let alone a Walmart store. BHO and his chronies have no experience in the real world of business and its showing. These guys are truly rookies and in way over their heads and have been for sometime.

 

You are aware that he was a community organizer in his 20's before he went to law school right?

 

I know it's fun for the hopelessly stupid to keep saying that he was a community organizer, and not that he was a civil rights attorney, senior lecturer at a prestigious law school and 3 term state senator before becoming a US senator, but you don't need a history of running failed businesses to be president.

[RangerM]

 

You are aware that he was a community organizer in his 20's before he went to law school right?

 

I know it's fun for the hopelessly stupid to keep saying that he was a community organizer, and not that he was a civil rights attorney, senior lecturer at a prestigious law school and 3 term state senator before becoming a US senator, but you don't need a history of running failed businesses to be president.

I do wonder if you were to ask Barack Obama when he was a Senator (or prior), if he would agree with his own actions (as President) in a theoretical scenario.

 

I don't believe he would.

[fmccap]

 

You are aware that he was a community organizer in his 20's before he went to law school right?

 

I know it's fun for the hopelessly stupid to keep saying that he was a community organizer, and not that he was a civil rights attorney, senior lecturer at a prestigious law school and 3 term state senator before becoming a US senator, but you don't need a history of running failed businesses to be president.

I thought he studied the Constitution? I don't think he learned much considering his actions. He could be anything he wants, who's to say he was any good at it?

 

In reality you don't need a history of anything, all you need to do know the Constitution.

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

I know it's fun for the hopelessly stupid to keep saying that he was a community organizer, and not that he was a civil rights attorney, senior lecturer at a prestigious law school and 3 term state senator before becoming a US senator, but you don't need a history of running failed businesses to be president.

When you cite those institutions and constituents, I have to think most of them now wish he'd just go away. He's not been the most shining example for any of those roles or responzibilities. Especially since today's Obama is so many of the things yesterday's Obama stood up against.

[Langston Hughes]

I do wonder if you were to ask Barack Obama when he was a Senator (or prior), if he would agree with his own actions (as President) in a theoretical scenario.

 

I don't believe he would.

 

The funny thing is that most people would fail that theoretical.

 

George W. Bush would fail

George H.W. Bush would fail

Clinton would fail

 

Do we need to continue? I can't recall one president that hasn't gone back on ideas they espoused prior to election.