Sure, the economy is fine. We're in a recovery, right?

[RangerM]

Debt is only a problem, IF you intend to pay it back. Otherwise, it's the lender's problem.

 

The reason current politicians aren't worried (or seem not to be) is they won't be the ones left without a chair when the music stops playing.

 

As with Obamacare, the politicians always give themselves an out.

[phil1336]

Debt is only a problem, IF you intend to pay it back. Otherwise, it's the lender's problem.

 

The reason current politicians aren't worried (or seem not to be) is they won't be the ones left without a chair when the music stops playing.

 

As with Obamacare, the politicians always give themselves an out.

Would you prefer to repeal "RomneyCare" and replace it with our previous HealthCare Plan for the un or under-insured, MediCaid, paid for by Taxpayer dollars?

[phil1336]

And both or all sides seem to be the same, only difference seems to be what they want to spend it on.

 

Kirby is dead on,

Its true, Democrats,LIberals, and Progressives want to piss away our future on "entitlements" for People. Republicans,Conservatives,and Fox News want to do the same but rather have the Military Industrial Complex, our Department of War, Big Agra, Big Pharma, and Big Oil get the handouts. You know, our cherished worshipped "Job Creators". The Warfare Queens love listening to the beat of War Drums while tapping their toes.

[phil1336]

The scary & sad part is some people actually believe that the debt does not matter, period.

More than a few states are teetering on implosion from being upside down in their spending and look to the federal government for "more" money.

 

ANY politician that spends money the US does not have should be removed from office regardless of party, gender or color.

Some people also don`t see a connection between Pay for Profit privately run Prison Systems. They build them and then require an 85% "occupancy" rate. What other Nation in the entire World has over 3 million of its Citizens locked up most for non-violent crimes?

[RangerM]

Would you prefer to repeal "RomneyCare" and replace it with our previous HealthCare Plan for the un or under-insured, MediCaid, paid for by Taxpayer dollars?

Yes, here's why.

 

The single largest decrease in the uninsured population was in the 19-25 age group. The same thing could have been accomplished by passing that portion of Obamacare that allowed persons under 26 to remain on their parents' health insurance, and we would have saved a hell of a lot of money.

[akirby]

Would you prefer to repeal "RomneyCare" and replace it with our previous HealthCare Plan for the un or under-insured, MediCaid, paid for by Taxpayer dollars?

 

Deflection. When you can't answer the current question, ask a different question. Aren't the taxpayers subsidizing the previously un or under-insured? We're still paying for it, only now it costs a lot more than before and people lost the plans they liked and in some cases were cheaper.

 

Some people also don`t see a connection between Pay for Profit privately run Prison Systems. They build them and then require an 85% "occupancy" rate. What other Nation in the entire World has over 3 million of its Citizens locked up most for non-violent crimes?

 

Another deflection.

 

Answer the question Phil. How are we going to balance the budget and pay down the debt? Or do you also think we can just "walk away"? Do you know how much the federal government is paying in interest on the national debt? And it's only getting larger.

 

What happens to you if you go $50K in debt on credit cards buying food for homeless people? Just because it's being spent on what you consider a worthy cause doesn't get rid of the debt or the interest.

[phil1336]

 

Deflection. When you can't answer the current question, ask a different question. Aren't the taxpayers subsidizing the previously un or under-insured? We're still paying for it, only now it costs a lot more than before and people lost the plans they liked and in some cases were cheaper.

 

 

Another deflection.

 

Answer the question Phil. How are we going to balance the budget and pay down the debt? Or do you also think we can just "walk away"? Do you know how much the federal government is paying in interest on the national debt? And it's only getting larger.

 

What happens to you if you go $50K in debt on credit cards buying food for homeless people? Just because it's being spent on what you consider a worthy cause doesn't get rid of the debt or the interest.

I`ll take on (your) concern of our National Debt as soon as you and other Fiscal Conservatives reel in out of control Corporate Welfare and giving our Department of War a blank check to purchase more Tanks that they (don`t want) or need or Aircraft that won`t fly. If you call that a "deflection", so be it! If you don`t want the Government to be in the Food Stamp Business, an $8 @ hr minimum wage where many folks are required to work (2) Part-Time Jobs in order to (attempt) to keep their nostrils from taking in water and drowning. Minimum wage Jobs are not just for Teenagers and those first entering the Job market any longer. Its the "standard" of our new growing "Service Industry" economy.

[phil1336]

Yes, here's why.

 

The single largest decrease in the uninsured population was in the 19-25 age group. The same thing could have been accomplished by passing that portion of Obamacare that allowed persons under 26 to remain on their parents' health insurance, and we would have saved a hell of a lot of money.

Want a quick solution? Single Payer National HealthCare like "every" other Nation in the Western Hemisphere already has. Socialized Medicine? Scary, huh? Just like MediCare for those over 65. Any Seniors want to give up on that?

[akirby]

I`ll take on (your) concern of our National Debt as soon as you and other Fiscal Conservatives reel in out of control Corporate Welfare and giving our Department of War a blank check to purchase more Tanks that they (don`t want) or need or Aircraft that won`t fly. If you call that a "deflection", so be it! If you don`t want the Government to be in the Food Stamp Business, an $8 @ hr minimum wage where many folks are required to work (2) Part-Time Jobs in order to (attempt) to keep their nostrils from taking in water and drowning. Minimum wage Jobs are not just for Teenagers and those first entering the Job market any longer. Its the "standard" of our new growing "Service Industry" economy.

 

 

I've already said we need to cut military spending along with everything else.

 

Your answer is like a couple who is $50K in debt and each one is overspending their budget by $1K/month. Each one is pointing to the other one saying he/she needs to cut their spending. That won't work.

 

It's not rocket science. Start by cutting spending across the board to balance the budget then start paying down the national debt.

[Imawhosure]

Want a quick solution? Single Payer National HealthCare like "every" other Nation in the Western Hemisphere already has. Socialized Medicine? Scary, huh? Just like MediCare for those over 65. Any Seniors want to give up on that?

No offense Mr Phil, but the reason Americans across our nation became the people on the planet with the highest living standard was because........the way America did things.

 

That wasn't good enough for some people, so just like you want, we are expected to morph into the "IDEALS" of every other nation, and of course, our country as a whole begins to mirror every other nations economy as it shrinks.

 

The truth is.... most of the problems were created by both parties, but that has little to do with who most of us are, and that is conservatives. Republicans are almost liberal today, and democrats are fringe left wing.

 

Coolidge and Reagan had it right. Bush II, Bush I, and Obama have it wrong as far as economics. And, I better NEVER hear another democrat say something about GWs foreign policy. I have never in my lifetime seen a President take every position available on foreign policy, switching as often as he switches his socks. I don't know how any democrat could possibly support his foreign policy, since before that democrat explained why he was in support of it, Obama would have changed it!

 

Now then Phil, as far as the economy goes, it may surprise you to hear me say that "it is obviously getting better." Not great mind you, but better at a decent pace as of now.

 

But, just as with FDR, the over reach of the policies is what kept us in the doll-drums for so long; and also just as with FDR, some of the supposed wonderful solutions have again given us, "extreme problems down the road."

 

Want to study a CONSERVATIVE solution that was put into practiced and worked?!?!?!?! Think I am going to say Reagan don't you! Nope. To much liberal infusion there to claim it was even 70% conservative. Instead, look at Coolidge. Within 18 months, he had the unemployment rate from a high of somewhere around 15%, to 2.4%. That is conservatism!!!!!! He did exactly what most of the conservatives on here espouse, and it worked exactly as we proclaim it should, because we know Coolidge did it and how it worked, lol. Reagan tried but had Tip O'Neal to deal with, so it was watered down.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Imawhosure

[RangerM]

Want a quick solution? Single Payer National HealthCare like "every" other Nation in the Western Hemisphere already has. Socialized Medicine? Scary, huh? Just like MediCare for those over 65. Any Seniors want to give up on that?

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else".

 

Socialized medicine is exactly that, which is why it is unsustainable without rationing.

[phil1336]

No offense Mr Phil, but the reason Americans across our nation became the people on the planet with the highest living standard was because........the way America did things.

 

That wasn't good enough for some people, so just like you want, we are expected to morph into the "IDEALS" of every other nation, and of course, our country as a whole begins to mirror every other nations economy as it shrinks.

 

The truth is.... most of the problems were created by both parties, but that has little to do with who most of us are, and that is conservatives. Republicans are almost liberal today, and democrats are fringe left wing.

 

Coolidge and Reagan had it right. Bush II, Bush I, and Obama have it wrong as far as economics. And, I better NEVER hear another democrat say something about GWs foreign policy. I have never in my lifetime seen a President take every position available on foreign policy, switching as often as he switches his socks. I don't know how any democrat could possibly support his foreign policy, since before that democrat explained why he was in support of it, Obama would have changed it!

 

Now then Phil, as far as the economy goes, it may surprise you to hear me say that "it is obviously getting better." Not great mind you, but better at a decent pace as of now.

 

But, just as with FDR, the over reach of the policies is what kept us in the doll-drums for so long; and also just as with FDR, some of the supposed wonderful solutions have again given us, "extreme problems down the road."

 

Want to study a CONSERVATIVE solution that was put into practiced and worked?!?!?!?! Think I am going to say Reagan don't you! Nope. To much liberal infusion there to claim it was even 70% conservative. Instead, look at Coolidge. Within 18 months, he had the unemployment rate from a high of somewhere around 15%, to 2.4%. That is conservatism!!!!!! He did exactly what most of the conservatives on here espouse, and it worked exactly as we proclaim it should, because we know Coolidge did it and how it worked, lol. Reagan tried but had Tip O'Neal to deal with, so it was watered down.

Reaganomics and the failed "trickle down theory" didn`t work then nor now! It just lead to the largest income disparity this nation has seen since the turn of the 20th Century. True, our modern day Robber Barons and the wealthiest 2%ers are doing fine, thank you. The rest of the Country, not so much. Just because there is a wait list for high end Rolls Royces, Bentley`s and other luxury items doesn`t mean that America is enjoying a high standard of living, regardless what nonsense Fox News repeats daily.

[phil1336]

"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else".

 

Socialized medicine is exactly that, which is why it is unsustainable without rationing.

The only thing worse then Canadian style National HealthCare is having either (no) Health Insurance or being (under-insured) with a Plan that won`t pay for Crap with huge co-pays and deductibles. How come MediCare is so popular with Seniors? Their HeathCare being rationed too? Someone must pay for the under/un-insured! MediCaid for everyone or just let them curl up and die curbside if they don`t have a Membership Card? You plan please?

[cal50]

Reaganomics and the failed "trickle down theory" didn`t work then nor now! It just lead to the largest income disparity this nation has seen since the turn of the 20th Century. True, our modern day Robber Barons and the wealthiest 2%ers are doing fine, thank you. The rest of the Country, not so much. Just because there is a wait list for high end Rolls Royces, Bentley`s and other luxury items doesn`t mean that America is enjoying a high standard of living, regardless what nonsense Fox News repeats daily.

 

 

I would take Reaganomics any day / everyday over Obama's failed social experiment.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/

 

The truly wealth are doing much better now in part to Obama tanking the economy.

Trickle down is more successful than having millions more people added to government assistance programs ( not working or intending to work ).

 

Regan managed several issues and unemployment dropped to around 5%.

Under Obama the economy has actually shrunk ,unemployment and underemployment numbers are huge in contrast. Personal income / wages down for all of the "working" and far worse if you are black.

The only jobs created are part time while many more full time jobs are gone.

 

 

Bush was bad without a doubt domestically but Obama is FAR worse and is only doing more damage to the economy with the help of many in the house & congress.

Until all of those idiots stop spending more than they have its more of the same except some people are too blind or stupid to see than and only point to one party as the problem.

 

Is our economy and respect in the international community better now after + half a decade of Obama ?

(NO)

[RangerM]

The only thing worse then Canadian style National HealthCare is having either (no) Health Insurance or being (under-insured) with a Plan that won`t pay for Crap with huge co-pays and deductibles.

The second half of your first sentence is the rub in many states for insurance purchased through Obamacare--the plans are very limited and/or aren't accepted by many doctors/hospitals. What (good) is health insurance if you can't use it, or it's extremely inconvenient?

 

How come MediCare is so popular with Seniors? Their HeathCare being rationed too?

 

Do you know any Senior who doesn't have a MediCare supplemental? Why is it necessary? If Medicare were truly "universal health care", then a supplemental plan would be superfluous. But it's not, and yes, what that means is that Medicare is rationed.

 

Someone must pay for the under/un-insured! MediCaid for everyone or just let them curl up and die curbside if they don`t have a Membership Card? You plan please?

 

Noone wants harm to come to people, but as you're no doubt aware, nothing in life is free. And sugar-coating things in a cloak of "social" welfare doesn't change the underlying truth that medicine/medical care are goods/services that require human beings to provide.

 

And anything that is a good/service is subject to the laws of supply and demand--no matter the system of government.

 

When the supply is outstripped by demand (as in the case of medicine), price goes up. Unless you're willing to endure some "good ol' fashioned" deregulation to make the supply (potentially) larger, you can expect that to continue.

 

Rationing is simply the government's way of limiting demand. But as I mentioned above, seniors can leap frog that by purchasing supplemental insurance.

 

I am sympathetic to individuals whose conditions are rare, and the medicine they require is scarce because demand is scarce. I'm open to certain supplements (by the government) in cases like this.

 

You may not agree with my view in this matter, but if my two choices for healthcare system are......

 

1. Obtaining healthcare by my ability to outpurchase my peers, based on my talents and willingness to work for it; or

2. Letting a government bureaucrat determine (for me) what I will be allowed to obtain, regardless of any merits or detriments to society I may bring.

 

I'll take number 1.

[akirby]

I would be ok with having government cover catastophic care (trauma, extended illnesses, expensive treatments) beyond $5K/year or something like that. This would allow the regular insurance companies to lower their rates. A policy with a reasonable co-pay and a $5K/year cap will be much less expensive. Of course that won't fix the bureaucracy that I've witnessed first hand with the VA system. My father was diagnosed in 2003 with esophageal cancer and an abdominal aortic aneurysm the size of a grapefruit. They delayed his cancer treatment thinking the aneurysm would kill him first and soon - and they were almost right. He had trauma surgery (outside the VA) for the aneurysm, recovered and finally got the cancer treatment (with plenty of issues there like the VA ER giving him pepto bismol for a C-dif infection). Maybe it could be operated as a non profit co-op (privately) but government funded. There has to be a way to make it work.

[Trimdingman]

The solution is a user-pay system. Take away the monopoly and let the market set prices. You don't need to be a doctor with 10 years of university to do 99% of what doctors do. Eliminate that requirement. Bring on real competition and you will see health science advance like computer science did without the government interfering. They know how to do heart transplants. They just have to follow the procedure. They should be able to get the cost down to a few thousand dollars; but no. It is life or death, so they will extort it to the max, under the protection of their monopoly created by government regulation. Get the government out. Set competition and American know-how free, and soon we will all be living longer, healthier lives within our household budgets. We don't need government health care or insurance. Getting a heart transplant should be like getting a new set of kitchen appliances.

[phil1336]

The second half of your first sentence is the rub in many states for insurance purchased through Obamacare--the plans are very limited and/or aren't accepted by many doctors/hospitals. What (good) is health insurance if you can't use it, or it's extremely inconvenient?

 

 

Do you know any Senior who doesn't have a MediCare supplemental? Why is it necessary? If Medicare were truly "universal health care", then a supplemental plan would be superfluous. But it's not, and yes, what that means is that Medicare is rationed.

 

 

Noone wants harm to come to people, but as you're no doubt aware, nothing in life is free. And sugar-coating things in a cloak of "social" welfare doesn't change the underlying truth that medicine/medical care are goods/services that require human beings to provide.

 

And anything that is a good/service is subject to the laws of supply and demand--no matter the system of government.

 

When the supply is outstripped by demand (as in the case of medicine), price goes up. Unless you're willing to endure some "good ol' fashioned" deregulation to make the supply (potentially) larger, you can expect that to continue.

 

Rationing is simply the government's way of limiting demand. But as I mentioned above, seniors can leap frog that by purchasing supplemental insurance.

 

I am sympathetic to individuals whose conditions are rare, and the medicine they require is scarce because demand is scarce. I'm open to certain supplements (by the government) in cases like this.

 

You may not agree with my view in this matter, but if my two choices for healthcare system are......

 

1. Obtaining healthcare by my ability to outpurchase my peers, based on my talents and willingness to work for it; or

2. Letting a government bureaucrat determine (for me) what I will be allowed to obtain, regardless of any merits or detriments to society I may bring.

 

I'll take number 1.

Its very simple, Medicine and Hospitalization should (not) be For Profit. HealthCare is a basic need, not a commodity that should be sold and marketed as a consumer product. Doctors and Hospitals have a "list price" and a severely discount actual price they pay major Insurance providers. Its a hoax and a joke. Like I said, if you don`t like "RomneyCare" because "O" put a dark shadow over it, fine. Put your "Plan" on the table to initiate real HealthCare Coverage of all Americans. Like akirby retorts, "deflecting" but no plan to fix the obvious problem. Your point that Seniors need to purchase a "Supplemental Plan) to cover the roughly 20% that MediCare Part B doesn`t pay, whats your point? Ask anyone over 65 if they would be willing to give up their (flawed) MediCare Coverage for your non-existant proposal. Whats your next proposal, initiate the India "Caste" system for use here in the U.S.? Its pretty much already in place.

[phil1336]

The solution is a user-pay system. Take away the monopoly and let the market set prices. You don't need to be a doctor with 10 years of university to do 99% of what doctors do. Eliminate that requirement. Bring on real competition and you will see health science advance like computer science did without the government interfering. They know how to do heart transplants. They just have to follow the procedure. They should be able to get the cost down to a few thousand dollars; but no. It is life or death, so they will extort it to the max, under the protection of their monopoly created by government regulation. Get the government out. Set competition and American know-how free, and soon we will all be living longer, healthier lives within our household budgets. We don't need government health care or insurance. Getting a heart transplant should be like getting a new set of kitchen appliances.

Fine, "You" travel over to Haiti or a host of other Third World Counties and shop around for a non-board certified Doctor to perform a procedure on your or one of your family members. I`ll opt out of that, thank you. You wanna roll the dice with your life, fine. I`ll choose board certified and look for a deal on a Used Car instead.

[phil1336]

Trimdingman; Assuming you are a Canadian and also assuming your covered by Canadian National HealthCare through Ontario, kindly Post and update when you yourself withdraw from your Socialized Medical Plan and decide to go un-insured giving yourself the opportunity for (you) to shop around for the best deal on both Medical Providers and Drugs and (then) get back and update your mindless dribble! Another self-obsorbed Conservative crowing, everything is fine just as long as "I got mine"! Comparing shopping for new Kitchen Appliances and life saving open Heart surgery or Cancer treatment is a good analogy, huh?

[RangerM]

Its very simple, Medicine and Hospitalization should (not) be For Profit. HealthCare is a basic need, not a commodity that should be sold and marketed as a consumer product.

Food is a more basic need. You will die far faster without it than you would without healthcare. Shelter would come next in the order of priority.

 

If healthcare should not be for profit, please justify why food (and/or shelter) should also not be for profit.

 

Doctors and Hospitals have a "list price" and a severely discount actual price they pay major Insurance providers. Its a hoax and a joke.

Doctors will gladly reduce their price to eliminate the overhead costs of dealing with insurance providers. I know, because I've successfully got a discount when I was paying out of pocket.

 

But I can agree that people treat their insurance as more of a maintenance plan, and not the catastrophic coverage that it should be, to the point that they are so disconnected from the actual cost of things, they don't factor it when making their healthcare decisions. Most aren't aware you can walk into many large retailers and receive low cost healthcare and medicines.

 

 

Like I said, if you don`t like "RomneyCare" because "O" put a dark shadow over it, fine. Put your "Plan" on the table to initiate real HealthCare Coverage of all Americans. Like akirby retorts, "deflecting" but no plan to fix the obvious problem. Your point that Seniors need to purchase a "Supplemental Plan) to cover the roughly 20% that MediCare Part B doesn`t pay, whats your point? Ask anyone over 65 if they would be willing to give up their (flawed) MediCare Coverage for your non-existant proposal. Whats your next proposal, initiate the India "Caste" system for use here in the U.S.? Its pretty much already in place.

Your "dark shadow" comment sounds like baiting to me. I'll ignore it.

 

My "point" was that you are incorrect by identifying Medicare as "universal healthcare" that devoid of rationing. It IS rationed. The fix for that rationing is a free market solution where people purchase for their needs.

 

As far as my "non-existent" proposal, from where I'm standing your proposal is no different because it can't exist without rationing, ruinous levels of taxation, or both.

Edited September 28, 2014 by RangerM

[phil1336]

 

Deflection. When you can't answer the current question, ask a different question. Aren't the taxpayers subsidizing the previously un or under-insured? We're still paying for it, only now it costs a lot more than before and people lost the plans they liked and in some cases were cheaper.

 

 

Another deflection.

 

Answer the question Phil. How are we going to balance the budget and pay down the debt? Or do you also think we can just "walk away"? Do you know how much the federal government is paying in interest on the national debt? And it's only getting larger.

 

What happens to you if you go $50K in debt on credit cards buying food for homeless people? Just because it's being spent on what you consider a worthy cause doesn't get rid of the debt or the interest.

Deflection akirby Ok, YOU tell me once you balance the books by repealing "RomneyCare" those so called Tax savings to reduce the National Debt will simply be transferred over for MediCaid re-imbursement instead. The Hospitals and Doctors will be paid for their services (still) by Tax Payers dollars unless, you simply refuse the "un & under" insured access to treatment. Thats a "deflection"? Thats simply a Fact! Perhaps you have another (secret) source of paying for those folks?

[phil1336]

Food is a more basic need. You will die far faster without it than you would without healthcare. Shelter would come next in the order of priority.

 

If healthcare should not be for profit, please justify why food (and/or shelter) should also not be for profit.

 

Doctors will gladly reduce their price to eliminate the overhead costs of dealing with insurance providers. I know, because I've successfully got a discount when I was paying out of pocket.

 

But I can agree that people treat their insurance as more of a maintenance plan, and not the catastrophic coverage that it should be, to the point that they are so disconnected from the actual cost of things, they don't factor it when making their healthcare decisions. Most aren't aware you can walk into many large retailers and receive low cost healthcare and medicines.

 

 

Your "dark shadow" comment sounds like baiting to me. I'll ignore it.

 

My "point" was that you are incorrect by identifying Medicare as "universal healthcare" that devoid of rationing. It IS rationed. The fix for that rationing is a free market solution where people purchase for their needs.

 

As far as my "non-existent" proposal, from where I'm standing your proposal is no different because it can't exist without rationing, ruinous levels of taxation, or both.

So (you) want to pay for your own HealthCare and negotiate a discount fee for out of pocket payment? Whats your Credit Card Limit before you Max out your wallet full of Cards? Think it will cover the discounted cost of Cancer Treatment, Open Heart Surgery or Kidney Failure. Get out of your Fox New (Bubble) before you start suffering permanent brain damage due to oxogen depravation. If you equate that HealthCare is a distant third in importance to food or shelter, just wait until you or a family member eventually gets sick. Guess you counting on a quick and sudden death and paying off the "final expenses" with an "elcheapo" up the chimney direct Cremation for $495, huh? Man Plans while God Laughs!

[akirby]

Deflection akirby Ok, YOU tell me once you balance the books by repealing "RomneyCare" those so called Tax savings to reduce the National Debt will simply be transferred over for MediCaid re-imbursement instead. The Hospitals and Doctors will be paid for their services (still) by Tax Payers dollars unless, you simply refuse the "un & under" insured access to treatment. Thats a "deflection"? Thats simply a Fact! Perhaps you have another (secret) source of paying for those folks?

 

I never tied obamacare to balancing the budget. I said we need to cut government spending. How and where to cut it is a different discussion.

 

So now please tell me what we're going to do if we can't balance the budget and we keep increasing the national debt and raising the debt ceiling and raising our interest payments?

[akirby]

So (you) want to pay for your own HealthCare and negotiate a discount fee for out of pocket payment? Whats your Credit Card Limit before you Max out your wallet full of Cards? Think it will cover the discounted cost of Cancer Treatment, Open Heart Surgery or Kidney Failure. Get out of your Fox New (Bubble) before you start suffering permanent brain damage due to oxogen depravation. If you equate that HealthCare is a distant third in importance to food or shelter, just wait until you or a family member eventually gets sick. Guess you counting on a quick and sudden death and paying off the "final expenses" with an "elcheapo" up the chimney direct Cremation for $495, huh? Man Plans while God Laughs!

 

I pay $2500/yr out of pocket - that's my annual deductible. Insurance only covers after that. A lot of folks have high deductible plans like that and could benefit from non-insurance payments.