blackscrewFX404 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) So basically my wifes ford edge just crapped out on us.2008 Ford Edge with 8th digit "C" I maintain this thing religiously with oil changes and ect.. Never had a problem with it.My wife hasn’t complained of any issues or anything till just yesterday, well she called and said " My car is idling funny all of a sudden, and it stalled once what should I do? " I said "Oh, well did u do anything to the car today?" she says "no, just got gas"So at this time I’m thinking ok its like below 0 out this morning and you got gas, maybe some moisture in gas or crappy gas. I said stop at AutoZone get some dry gas or octane booster and try that go to work and ill check it tonight.Well before she could get to AutoZone less than 5 mins later she calls back said the car stalled again and wont start and now sounds terrible when trying to start.She called triple A and they did whatever that dummy did and towed it back to my house. (He also tried starting it a million times)I get home instantly check the oil to see its basically double filled and a chocolate milkshake. Check the coolant reservoir. and its empty. At this step I jacked it up and drained the oil (I took a video clip of it on my phone) starts off looking like pure water than came out with the chocolate milkshake soon after. So I’m thinking that the motor is literally junk after seeing that.Also now throwing this code which I scanned with my scanner: P0016 Crankshaft Position / Camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A which exact sensor is this? Also which side is bank 1 on this motor? So with that code I’m thinking the water/coolant or constant starting fucked the timing up. I took the VCT solenoid out and peeked in and the chain seems to be intact.Also Around some lower timing cover bolts they do seem quite moist.The bad part is we had no warning sings or smoke or smells or sounds before this as I even drove the car the NIGHT BEFORE with no issues full power and nothing. Also this is a garage kept car Basically I want to know if anyone else has experience this issue that I’m dealing with.If this motor goes bad like this I thought the VCT system / cam phaser would lower timing / oil pressure ect and kill the car before all this damage would’ve occurred. If anyone has ever experienced this was your motor salvageable? I‘ve done plenty of head gaskets before but not a VCT type motor .The engine swap in this vehicle doesn’t seem to bad but I got to get this thing lifted pretty high seems to just unhook exhaust / tranny + engine harnesses / axles and drop the sub frame it looks like.Any techs or DIY's had seen/read/worked on any issue like this in these duratech motors? I’m stumped and instead of ripping it apart to see if its repairable I’m looking for a new motor. Let me know if anyone thinks I can flush this out and possibly change head gaskets ect but with this VCT system it would seem like it would suck in the milk shake into the cam phasers and just ruin everything Pretty depressed and need some other insight from people very familiar with this engine. But at this point I’m probably going to get a salvage motor / trans already attached and just drop sub frame and swap the entire thing. But I would have to also purchase a lift or some way of lifting it high enough J So id like that to be my last option. But then again, I don’t want to rebuild that motor to start it for it to just kill it self all over again.Thanks a lot everyone for my long and horribly worded post! LOL I do appreciate all the help/views. Just sucks that my 08 ford edge that literally just past 104k miles is dead and I owe on it! L Edited January 25, 2014 by blackscrewFX404 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Wow - that totally sucks. Can't say I've heard of that type of failure before, but continuing to try and start it after it died probably wasn't good. The lack of coolant in the recovery bottle isn't a good sign - maybe you had a head gasket leak and had water in the oil and it froze after it left the garage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackscrewFX404 Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) yea bro it sucks. I did find some cheap replacement (just motors) ranging from 300-1000 All seem to have about the same mileage from 80-120. Obviously id like as low as possible.Anyone ever swap a motor in this? Have a procedure online anywhere? We have auto reference site listed through our public library which is alot like Mitchels on demand but it for somereason has next to nothing for detailed procedures for the Ford Edge. I mean Im also going by what my wife is saying and who knows if she didnt notice it overheating or ect... but she isnt that bad with vehicles so its just a bummer.Also just to add: I didnt start the vehicle when I got home at all since I already feared it was junk, lol Edited January 25, 2014 by blackscrewFX404 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 If the timing is intact then it shouldn't hurt to change the oil, refill the coolant and see if you can get it restarted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Not a headgasket. Your water pump failed. On some 3.5's the pump was an idler for the main timing chain. Its most likely a boat anchor with the cam correlation code as you probably bent the valves when the pump went. This is not a common failure, but it can happen. Bank 1 is the rear bank, FYI. Dropping it out on the subframe is the only way to get it. It doesn't take all that long, but plan on 4 wheel aligning it when you are done. DO NOT replace the trans too, unless you have access to an IDS so you can program the trans data into the PCM. This is critical as the solenoid body in the trans is flow tested and has its own unique calibration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Water pump? That would not have been in my top 100 guesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I've seen one other. It sheared the pump gear clean off when the bearing failed. Since the pump is enclosed behind the timing cover, that's where his coolant went. Its just not terribly common even for the 3.5's that have this setup. When it was revised, the pump got moved and a different style idler is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoerst Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have a blown 3.5 in my edge. already have replacement. is there any manuals on engine change??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Ford service manuals. I bet there are some Youtube vids too. you can't get it out the top. Has to come out the bottom. Easiest to drop subframe/trans/engine as a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Agreed. Not very common, but have seen similar issues. The good news is used 3.5s are cheap because they are dependable. Not a big demand. Not a difficult engine to replace, however like YT90SC stated, drop out of the bottom. Pull subframe, drop engine and trans together then swap. Mark your subframe location before removing will make it easier for alignment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Lynn Lapinsky Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 blackscrewfx404... I just had this happen to me 4 days ago. I had no warning, no signs, no symptoms....NOTHING! I had the same code appear when I took it to advance auto. The next day was trying to take it down my dads to get fixed the part I thought it was or the codes said it was and my car stalled out and would not start. Broke down on the side of the road with my 3 year old daughter in the car is not ideal! Took almost 2 hours for a tow truck to come get me. Then to be told by the dealership there's not much they can do because I did not purchase the extended warranty to cover and there's not much they can do since I didn't. Talk about customer service. I am a mother of a 3 year old girl, diabetic, and seriously only made 4 payments on a car I can not drive now. I only had it 4 months and it has 77,000 miles on it. Well I got a quote from the dealership it's going to be $7,000+ to fix it. Great! All because I had no warning, no smoke, no fluid, everything was good one day to bam the car is blown...I even went as far as contacting Ford Headquarters which got me no where. I may just keep trying. Customer services definitely is and was lacking in this whole horrible experience and it's heartbreaking all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 So you opted not to buy the extended warranty, knowing you were outside the factory warranty and now you think someone else should pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Lynn Lapinsky Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) No I don't think they should pay for all of it. I think they should stand behind their car as they did everything and all to sell me it, but now that it comes to it breaking 28 days after warranty ran out. I am getting them to look at it and hope all goes okay but it's not like the car was driven for 6 years and it happened it was four months! The warrant I had on it was 4,000 miles or 3 months which ever came first. Edited August 14, 2015 by Rikki Lynn Lapinsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Giving you a 3 month warranty is standing behind the vehicle. It's not like it failed within a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Van Sickle Jr Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 blackscrewfx404... I just had this happen to me 4 days ago. I had no warning, no signs, no symptoms....NOTHING! I had the same code appear when I took it to advance auto. The next day was trying to take it down my dads to get fixed the part I thought it was or the codes said it was and my car stalled out and would not start. Broke down on the side of the road with my 3 year old daughter in the car is not ideal! Took almost 2 hours for a tow truck to come get me. Then to be told by the dealership there's not much they can do because I did not purchase the extended warranty to cover and there's not much they can do since I didn't. Talk about customer service. I am a mother of a 3 year old girl, diabetic, and seriously only made 4 payments on a car I can not drive now. I only had it 4 months and it has 77,000 miles on it. Well I got a quote from the dealership it's going to be $7,000+ to fix it. Great! All because I had no warning, no smoke, no fluid, everything was good one day to bam the car is blown...I even went as far as contacting Ford Headquarters which got me no where. I may just keep trying. Customer services definitely is and was lacking in this whole horrible experience and it's heartbreaking all around. Too bad you do not live in my area. I found 12 used engines doing a quick search. Price ranged for $650 to $1150 from salvage yards with anywhere from 2,000 miles to 80,000 miles on them. Know a shop that will do an engine swap for around $600. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 This type of failure is just not too common. That is why engines are CHEAP in the salvage yards. If it were me, I'd go with a used one. I'd be a little wary of a shop that charged so little for an engine replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Van Sickle Jr Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 This type of failure is just not too common. That is why engines are CHEAP in the salvage yards. If it were me, I'd go with a used one. I'd be a little wary of a shop that charged so little for an engine replacement. Labor rates are low in my area, nothing in triple digits. Golf carts and ATV's have a higher labor rate than most auto repair shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 MOTOR says 15.6 hours for AWD Edge. That puts the labor rate under $40/hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Van Sickle Jr Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 MOTOR says 15.6 hours for AWD Edge. That puts the labor rate under $40/hr. 15.6 @ $40 = $624 15.6@ $50 = $780 Independent garages. Dealer is $65 or so ( the last timeI was in one ). One independent has a guy they charge less than $40 for, but he would not be doing engine swaps, he does light , easy. unskilled jobs, Even at $50 an hour and the most expensive used engine they would still get by for around $2000. A dealer however may not want to mess with installing a used engine because of warranty issues. A factory reman caries a warrranty for Ford, the used engine is just a warranty from the salvage yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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