Southern Arizona has certainly gotten.....scary..in the last few years.

[the_spaniard]

Ok, I'm pretty late with this but I don't watch much in the way of television. Regardless of political affiliation, I think we can all agree that multiple administrations and the federal government has failed miserably when it comes to controlling our borders in regards to illegal drug trafficking/human trafficking.

 

Turns out southern Arizona (and by southern I suppose I mean anything south of Phoenix) is seriously screwed up with cartel activity. I just watched this video from youtube, and it got me wondering about a few things.

 

- Why are we focused on immigration reform if we can't control our borders?
- Amnesty is pretty much coming as we can't afford to do anything else, like go door-door to track down 12 million people for deportation.
- Our current president has deported more illegals than any other president in U.S. history, but what does that mean without securing the borders? In 2010 he ordered 1200 troops to help secure the border, but I havnt been able to find much in the way of news about it since then.
- Our politicians have kicked the immigration can down the road because they know amnesty is coming, they know that won't be popular, and they know it is an election year.

 

So what exactly is a viable solution to stop the cartels that seem to have no problem committing crimes on U.S. soil? Bear in mind in some cases these are not Mexican hillbillies with guns, but in the case of the Zetas some of these guys received military training by the Special Forces at Fort Bragg, NC. Talk about doing something to come back and bite you in the azz. While U.S. militia groups in AZ have offered to help, I understand why law enforcement has been cold to the idea. It is just too dangerous, and they are dealing with an enemy with unlimited funds - these cartel guys think nothing of building a $3 million dollar narco submarine that they consider disposable. Does anyone doubt that drones are next? There is already evidence of them having armor-plated vehicles on US soil.

 

Not to sound cliche, but isn't this the proverbial "Clear and Present Danger"?

 

(Sorry if I link-bombed this, it is late and I got some kicking insomnia)

Edited May 29, 2014 by the_spaniard

[cal50]

If the USA really wanted to shut down border traffic they could but neither part really wants to.

If you fail to keep tons of illegal drugs and millions of people from crossing the border how could you prevent a small terrorist group or a tactical WMD of landing on US soil ?

(You cant).

 

The organized drug and human trafficking is a multi billion dollar industry that many people in governments in both countries get a piece of in some form or fashion.

[xr7g428]

Spaniard, living in AZ, we have been saying this for along time.

[the_spaniard]

If the USA really wanted to shut down border traffic they could but neither part really wants to.

If you fail to keep tons of illegal drugs and millions of people from crossing the border how could you prevent a small terrorist group or a tactical WMD of landing on US soil ?

(You cant).

 

The organized drug and human trafficking is a multi billion dollar industry that many people in governments in both countries get a piece of in some form or fashion.

 

Which is why IMO this should be an issue of national security.

 

Spaniard, living in AZ, we have been saying this for along time.

 

I find it interesting that to protect the citizens of the US, we put up signs telling them not to walk on a portion of American soil that is currently occupied by militant foreign criminals. I sure am glad our congress and CINC are right on this....oh wait...

 

I feel for you X. How far away from the front are you? Even if you are CCW out there, you are likely way outgunned. A few questions though, as I am late to the party:

 

How come this getz zero national media coverage? Is it covered more on the local stations? Even that crackpot Glenn Beck covered it. Despite some digging online, I have not heard anything about the 1200 troops Obama supposedly sent to AZ in 2010. Or is it because US troops are involved we have no national media coverage? :do what:

Edited May 30, 2014 by the_spaniard

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

Which is why IMO this should be an issue of national security.

 

 

I find it interesting that to protect the citizens of the US, we put up signs telling them not to walk on a portion of American soil that is currently occupied by militant foreign criminals. I sure am glad our congress and CINC are right on this....oh wait...

 

I feel for you X. How far away from the front are you? Even if you are CCW out there, you are likely way outgunned. A few questions though, as I am late to the party:

 

How come this getz zero national media coverage? Is it covered more on the local stations? Even that crackpot Glenn Beck covered it. Despite some digging online, I have not heard anything about the 1200 troops Obama supposedly sent to AZ in 2010. Or is it because US troops are involved we have no national media coverage? :do what:

Because Obama wants to open the flood gates of illegals into the US and granting amnesty to those here along with the "Promise Plan" or whatever it's called.

 

Rumor has it that Mexico has much more harsh and draconian immigration laws and the penalties much stiffer and broadly applied then those the US ICE applies.

[xr7g428]

I just moved farther north, to the north of the Phoenix area.

Two stories that got no media coverage:

 

Detective Bob T. ran the Scottsdale PD auto theft division until he was medically retired for injuries he suffered on duty. Shortly before retirement he was driving a SPD unmarked vehicle with his Sargent (boss) in the passenger seat. They were passed by a white 4WD F350 crew cab headed southbound on I17. This is the favorite truck here for the smugglers to steal. They ran the plates and it was in fact stolen. They decided to pursue, and the truck left the pavement. They followed n their CV Interceptor across open desert. The driver of the truck failed to see a wash and dropped into it and was unable to climb out the far side. Bob was far enough behind that they were able to stop before entering the wash. While bob was putting the CV in park, almost before the car came to a stop, his Sergent had the door open and his AR15 on the suspect who was had exited the vehicle with an SKS AK47 type rifle. They were able to disarm the suspect without further incident, but had Bob not been working with his Sergeant that day they feel certain that he would have been shot before he could have exited the vehicle. No news coverage at all.

 

Diamond Audio was in the process of opening a new office south of Phoenix in Chandler. The warehouse had been completed but the offices were still being remodeled. A person dressed in a police uniform knocked on the door in the middle of the afternoon, when the door was opened several more men dressed in police outfits rushed into the building. They held the employees at gun point, beat one person severely, and then proceeded to load merchandise from the warehouse into a large box truck. They were captured on security cameras, and identified as being members of a Mexican gang who cross the border to commit crimes, and then cross the border to escape. A member of the sheet rock crew was actually a gang member whose job was to case locations for the gang.

[the_spaniard]

Because Obama wants to open the flood gates of illegals into the US and granting amnesty to those here along with the "Promise Plan" or whatever it's called.

 

Rumor has it that Mexico has much more harsh and draconian immigration laws and the penalties much stiffer and broadly applied then those the US ICE applies.

 

Amnesty is coming no matter who sits in the oval office. There is no affordable alternative at this point. We can't afford the costs associated with deporting 13 million people. Every sitting president for the last 30 years has failed when it comes to illegal immigration, as has the US government, and every congress. Democrats and republicans are equally responsible for this fiasco. Look at how many politicians are trying to kick the can down the road until after elections. You gotta love people too concerned with keeping their job rather than actually doing it.

 

The real tragedy comes if they declare amnesty and do not control the border.

[the_spaniard]

I just moved farther north, to the north of the Phoenix area.

Two stories that got no media coverage:

 

Detective Bob T. ran the Scottsdale PD auto theft division until he was medically retired for injuries he suffered on duty. Shortly before retirement he was driving a SPD unmarked vehicle with his Sargent (boss) in the passenger seat. They were passed by a white 4WD F350 crew cab headed southbound on I17. This is the favorite truck here for the smugglers to steal. They ran the plates and it was in fact stolen. They decided to pursue, and the truck left the pavement. They followed n their CV Interceptor across open desert. The driver of the truck failed to see a wash and dropped into it and was unable to climb out the far side. Bob was far enough behind that they were able to stop before entering the wash. While bob was putting the CV in park, almost before the car came to a stop, his Sergent had the door open and his AR15 on the suspect who was had exited the vehicle with an SKS AK47 type rifle. They were able to disarm the suspect without further incident, but had Bob not been working with his Sergeant that day they feel certain that he would have been shot before he could have exited the vehicle. No news coverage at all.

 

Diamond Audio was in the process of opening a new office south of Phoenix in Chandler. The warehouse had been completed but the offices were still being remodeled. A person dressed in a police uniform knocked on the door in the middle of the afternoon, when the door was opened several more men dressed in police outfits rushed into the building. They held the employees at gun point, beat one person severely, and then proceeded to load merchandise from the warehouse into a large box truck. They were captured on security cameras, and identified as being members of a Mexican gang who cross the border to commit crimes, and then cross the border to escape. A member of the sheet rock crew was actually a gang member whose job was to case locations for the gang.

 

Wow, neither is a good thing, though the second to me seems a bit more brazen. I have friends of mine that work for ICE in CA and have seen incidents like the first scenario you describe. Out in the middle of nowhere, backup hasn't arrived yet, drawn down on a Mexi national scumbag toting a rifle.

[cal50]

 

We can't afford the costs associated with deporting 13 million people.

 

 

No one has to, if you fine employers that hire illegal workers they will leave on their own or all move to California.

This means paying zero benefits to all people here illegally. Simple solution that will never happen becasue its "mean".

 

Border security is a joke as it stands today.

[the_spaniard]

No one has to, if you fine employers that hire illegal workers they will leave on their own or all move to California.

This means paying zero benefits to all people here illegally. Simple solution that will never happen becasue its "mean".

 

Border security is a joke as it stands today.

 

I agree, but if it hasn't happened by now, I doubt it will. Too many people making too much money from the cheap labor.

 

As far is it being "mean" I don't agree with that. I have friends of mine from Europe that have been put through the wringer just to get work visas to come here with their family. I paid out of state tuition for over a year for both my undergraduate degrees which is on average 3X the in-state cost. Now illegal immigrants are getting out of state college tuition waved so they can pay in-state rates.

 

Seems to me border/perimeter control would be great experience for our National Guard. Without a secure border can you imagine how many illegals will pour into this country under the promise of amnesty?

Edited May 31, 2014 by the_spaniard

[cal50]

My former employer had a very robust international department ( 60% of our manufactured product was export) and several people that worked for the company wanted to relocate to the USA. It was essentially impossible for those professional people to even have a chance at relocating here yet millions of people that walk or sneak here are allowed to stay , with benefits.

 

 

The military can not get involved in civil policing actions (by law) but I would love to have Ft. Hood roll south and smoke anything that enters the border area similar to the DMZ between N&S Korea.

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

Amnesty is coming no matter who sits in the oval office. There is no affordable alternative at this point. We can't afford the costs associated with deporting 13 million people. Every sitting president for the last 30 years has failed when it comes to illegal immigration, as has the US government, and every congress. Democrats and republicans are equally responsible for this fiasco. Look at how many politicians are trying to kick the can down the road until after elections. You gotta love people too concerned with keeping their job rather than actually doing it.

 

The real tragedy comes if they declare amnesty and do not control the border.

I fear there is no real intent to end illegal immigration by either party.

They mean votes for democrats and cheap labor for business.

[Ron W.]

I signed for impeachmant, knew it wouldn't happen but worth a try.

 

 

 

 

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324:
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property.

[FiredMotorCompany]

 

As far is it being "mean" I don't agree .....

 

He was referring to the liberals knee jerk response that any attempt to restrict the free flow of immigrants and lavish benefits without threats of legal recourse against those who invade our country are lambasted as cold and heartless and mean. Edited June 1, 2014 by FiredMotorCompany

[the_spaniard]

He was referring to the liberals knee jerk response that any attempt to restrict the free flow of immigrants and lavish benefits without threats of legal recourse against those who invade our country are lambasted as cold and heartless and mean.

 

Ahhh I got it. I guess of I just have always thought of it as enforcing the law, so I missed the connection. It's interesting how to even breathe in other countries for any length of time you need an employer-sponsored visa, and are far less forgiving with their enforcement.

[akirby]

I can't decide if liberals are just bleeding hearts who feel sorry for the illegal immigrants or if it's part of some mysterious strategic plan.

[cal50]

I can't decide if liberals are just bleeding hearts who feel sorry for the illegal immigrants or if it's part of some mysterious strategic plan.

 

Liberals feel the same way.

[the_spaniard]

Obviously all immigrants just want a better life and will work hard in becoming outstanding citizens and productive members of American society. None of them would say, come here with criminal intent right? I think that it's part of the extremist liberal nature to bring people together so we can all live in a world free of conflict and full of love and peaceful harmony.

 

Of course this has never happened in the history of humankind and one can make a good argument humans are behaviorally/genetically incapable of such a thing.

 

That being said, conservatives have every bit of blame for our unsecured borders and illegal immigration issues as democrats. It is not a single party issue. Seven amnesties have been passed by congress since 1986. That is ringing the dinner bell seven times. Care to guess who signed off on amnesty in 1986? Not a shot at the guy, though....good intentions and all.

[FiredMotorCompany]

I fully support the legal immigration process.

 

I do not support or approve of the "turn a blind eye", "let's let the poor hungry, non-loyal foreigners assume legal status because we know they'll vote for our party", "anything for cheap labor picking strawberries or cotton", etc....policies all parties have adopted.

There are plentiful lists of those who are waiting in line as they should, paid their fees, studied the language......who should be processed and permitted into the US and those who violate our sovereignty by "invading the US one at a time then downloading a new citizen that has a right to stay though their parents cannot.......so those parent's illegal entry is FORGIVEN to provide upbringing with federal assistance......ARGHHHH! should NOTjump the line. They should have to take their kid back across with them just as other parents of minors would have to.

[NickF1011]

That being said, conservatives have every bit of blame for our unsecured borders and illegal immigration issues as democrats. It is not a single party issue. Seven amnesties have been passed by congress since 1986. That is ringing the dinner bell seven times. Care to guess who signed off on amnesty in 1986? Not a shot at the guy, though....good intentions and all.

 

Past mistakes are not a green light to continue the same policies though. Admit you screwed up and change it.

[the_spaniard]

 

Past mistakes are not a green light to continue the same policies though. Admit you screwed up and change it.

 

Oh I agree. Regardless of anything anyone does it has to start with real border security or nothing else matters. Americans have been failed again by our current crop of representatives that only want to kick the can down the road or give everyone a free pass without locking the back door.

 

If amnesty goes through without secure borders we are really, really screwed.

[xr7g428]

If we secured the border, and had guest worker permits, most of this would go away. Prohibition did not work, the way on drugs did not work, and our current immigration policy does not work.

[xr7g428]

On the other side of the issue, a friend of mine has family on both sides of the border. He doesn't speak much Spanish as he was raised here. He has a nice family with three kids, owns his own home, works hard and pays his taxes. He attended schools here and is a high school graduate. He was born in Mexico. His mother was living in the US and still does. She was visiting her mother in Mexico and the baby came early. He was born in his grandmothers house. His mom returned to the US carrying him across the border and at that time no one said a word. He was raised with his brothers and sisters who were all born in the US and that was that. Except he had no US or Mexican birth certificate.

 

Fast forward to about 2008. He went to Mexico to visit his very ill grandfather, who passed away while he was there. The rest of his family was able to return but at the time all he had was his drivers license. The rules had charged so he was turned away at the US border. Not knowing what to do, he decided that if a bunch of Guatemalans who spoke no English could sneak across the border, so could he. Of course, he got caught. They put him in jail and the deportation process began in earnest. Ultimately he was never allowed to return to the US. He started a business installing replacement windows in Mexico, and his family comes to visit him as often as they can. Is this the way things should work? Maybe if he had tons of money it would have gone differently.

[akirby]

Blame his parents for not getting a birth certificate once back in the U.S. Or him for not getting one once he turned 18. How would customs know that he was born to U.S. citizens without some type of paperwork?

[cal50]

On the other side of the issue, a friend of mine has family on both sides of the border. He doesn't speak much Spanish as he was raised here. He has a nice family with three kids, owns his own home, works hard and pays his taxes. He attended schools here and is a high school graduate. He was born in Mexico. His mother was living in the US and still does. She was visiting her mother in Mexico and the baby came early. He was born in his grandmothers house. His mom returned to the US carrying him across the border and at that time no one said a word. He was raised with his brothers and sisters who were all born in the US and that was that. Except he had no US or Mexican birth certificate.

 

Fast forward to about 2008. He went to Mexico to visit his very ill grandfather, who passed away while he was there. The rest of his family was able to return but at the time all he had was his drivers license. The rules had charged so he was turned away at the US border. Not knowing what to do, he decided that if a bunch of Guatemalans who spoke no English could sneak across the border, so could he. Of course, he got caught. They put him in jail and the deportation process began in earnest. Ultimately he was never allowed to return to the US. He started a business installing replacement windows in Mexico, and his family comes to visit him as often as they can. Is this the way things should work? Maybe if he had tons of money it would have gone differently.

 

 

 

Yep, that is the way it works if you fail to do your required part on a timely basis.

He sounds like a good guy but its not a replacement for failure to secure the paperwork that should have been done years ago.

 

Everyone should have the same opportunity for legal immigration and just becasue you can sneak in or want grandfathered in is unfair for the others that have done it the correct and legal way.