The worsed CURRENT Ford Motor Company Product

[156n3rd]

Forgive me for this as I want to talk about my '88 Aerostar. Reagrdless of the ugly face it had, and the flaky dark charcoal paint. Aside from this, the ol' Vulcan just had to work so hard to pull this beast around. If it had a V-8, it would have been a great van. After monkeying the rear seats out of it, it was an ultimate hauler swallowing up everything I could put in it. It was my family moving truck. It was a slug with a very weak a/c and it is shameful to think that the Ranger, from which it was built, didn't adapt that well to this application. It made sense to do so because it's a sturdy little thing. But that 3.0 was just too underpowered (145hp). I always wanted to drop a Duratec into that thing for the hell of it or even a 4.6. I didn't try because I divorced and ran of moeny. Sorry to bore you with shit, it was just popping out of my memory bank. The Aerostar was underwhelmed and Ford could've fixed it. I feel they should have GM'd it a la Astro and made it full-time AWD with a nice 4.0 or 4.6. This probably wasn't even a doable thing because of Ford's philisophy. All in all, it still ranks as one of the most comfortable and good handling (believe that?) units I ever had and wished I still had. It was my rolling juke box. Forgive the ramblings of s 53 year old man. :blah:

Mine was not a 2-tone. It was solid flaky charcoal.

Edited October 1, 2006 by 156n3rd

[ForkMeI'mDone]

That's easy.

The W-O-R-S-T that FORD has to offer are the Dumb Asses who have totally F*#@ed up this company & our jobs!

I will say this, the absolute BEST thing about this company is the gorgeous girl in the Mercury commercials!

[Edgey]

Richard just because people are acostomed to doing things one way does not mean, that the way things are done can't be improved.

 

Example would be the evolution of Windows, from 3.1-> Vista, there will be a learning curve, poelpe will have to adjust. The basic functionaliy of the cars dont change, the steering wheel turns the pedals stop and go.

 

I-drive was one of those things that needed to happen, We have to fail in order to succeed. I-drive was designed to simplify the User interface, instead of dozens of button you have one multi function knob. I drive Shows us what not to do, it was too much too fast, 12 years old would have the backgrond to easily understand and use I-drive but a 50 year old the n afford the car does not. no matter who you are you will make mistakes, do not judge the mistake, but judge the response to that mistake.

 

Although, Vista is a good example of how satisfying customer expectations comes at the expense of innovation. Vista is a junk product which has been stripped down and delayed because it needs to resemble what people are use to instead of what is realy powerful. Sometimes, avoiding the learning curve leaves you uncompetitive and stagnant. Eventually, people discover something surprising elsewhere, and they leave. Of course, Windows is mostly interested in maintaining its huge customer base instead of alienating them so you understand their perdicament. However, Ford needs to attract customers and they can't do it by offering them only very basic and functional packaging.

Edited October 1, 2006 by Edgey

[RichardJensen]

Sometimes, avoiding the learning curve leaves you uncompetitive and stagnant.

Yes.

 

But if that's the case, you're going about product design entirely the wrong way.

 

Perfect counterpoint: OS 9 to OS X.

 

There was almost NO learning curve, on a move to an OS that was so superior to its predecessor that it defies description.

 

You avoid learning curves through careful, thorough, thoughtful, involved design efforts.

 

DESIGN efforts.

 

(this is a pet peeve)

 

Go to Barnes and Noble, find the programming and software development section.

 

The Sioux Falls Barnes and Noble has maybe 200' of shelf space devoted to programming, database design, networking, and project management.

 

They have two copies of ONE book on interface design. And that book is a pretty poor guide.

 

Reducing the learning cuve has NOTHING to do with reducing feature content. Unless you're going about both tasks with entirely the wrong approach.

Edited October 1, 2006 by RichardJensen

[Guest Sixcav]

I don't know about you guys and gals but in my experience there's two kinds of people when it comes to creating things. There are "technical" people and then there are "creative" people for lack of a better term.

 

The technical person approaches the creative process as a math problem. Everything must conform to a rigid application of rules and equations. They analyze the issue to death and then create something that often ends placing fuction way, way before form. We call them engineers. lol A good example of how this person thinks happened to me a few weeks back when we were moving a good friend of mine into her new home. She has this big old leather couch and she wanted to put it in a front room that was designated the entertainment room. Her Father is there helping us. He is of course the engineer in this story and he really is an engineer (retired). So he whips out his tape measure and starts measuring this damn couch at various angles of length and width and then measures the door opening width and height. He's on and on about how the couch is just too big and it's not going to fit through the doorway, there's just no way. So finally after the other three of us had had enough of this nonsense we tell him to get out of the way and we pick up the couch and gently get it into the room with zero problems. This is where the technical person messes up. Everything in life from simplest to most complex must conform to some sort of equation and if it doesn't they decide it just can't be done. The down side is that not only is this not the case but also it's very difficult to get an engineer to admit he fucked up. They tend to have huge ego's probably from years and years of their proud families and friends telling them how smart they are. "Oh we are just so proud of little Johnny, he got his degree in Mechanical Engineering and now he's making good money over at Ajax car company." You hear that all your life and after awhile you might start to think your shit don't stink. You might start to think you really are so much smarter then everyone else no matter what the topic may be.

 

Now

 

The creative person is the one who approaches the process from a purely visual and asthetically pleasing standpoint. They tend to put form way, way ahead of function. Unlike the technical person where everything is math problems and equations, the creative person sees everything as colors and forms. We call them artists. Now the problem with artists is that when they are good at what they do they have tremendously huge ego's as well. This is probably a result of years and years of their family and friends telling them what a truely gifted artist they are. "Oh we are just so pround of little Jimmy, he got his masters in Art from LA Art Institute and now he's getting paid great money to be a creative consultant for Acme car company." You hear that long enough and you might start to think your shit don't stink. You might start to think you know more than anyone else how to create the best looking sedan that ever graced the road with it's presence. Meanwhile the technical guy is over in his office yelling "No dumb ass we can't put that widget there because the car won't pass crash test requirements." or "It places the engine to far back in the engine bay and the suspension wont' fit under the car then." Things like that.

 

The key then is to have a true manager, a true leader as it were, that steps into the frey and says "Both you premadonnas shut the hell up, put your petty little ego's away and figure out a way to make Technical genius plan A work in Creative genius package B." And that I think is where Ford is having some of their issues from a design standpoint. What was it that woman said that just left Ford? Too many levels of beauracracy wasn't it? The techy nerds aren't cooperating with the artsy fartsy guys and there ends up a break down in communication and it takes forever to get everything done. Or hell maybe I'm just off in left field. lol I've had a bit to drink so it's entirely possible.

[Edstock]

"The key then is to have a true manager"

 

Harley Earl comes to mind as the archtype. A creative, flamboyant personality, he was essentially the head Creative Director. The point is, the years in his father's custom coach-building company in California taught him what could and could not be done with the technology of the day.

 

With this knowledge of the state of the art, he was able to direct the gang with the markers and airbrushes to be creative with results that might be buildable.

 

But Harley also was able to talk to the engineers — and we got the Buick Y-Job: a stunning concept on a running chassis. It was probably the first time the creative types had worked with engineering to produce a chassis, rather than being presented with the latest iteration of a standard ladder-frame chassis to style a body on. Thus we got lower and wider.

 

[mr.bob]

IMO, just about all the present offerings in the USA, the beancounters have cheapened up the interiors to the point I would not buy one even with 0% interest. For example, take a close look at the needle base on the tach and speedometer on the 500 Limited, a cheap looking gray plastic without not even a smooth finish, and those cream colored gauges, they look as if they came straight from JC Whitney, and why the same radio in everything?.

[Guest Sixcav]

The same radio thing in all the Ford's drives me nuts too. To top it off the radio they use is that ugly square generic looking thing, it has no style. Fuction without form.

 

By the way Edstock that's a beautiful car.

[Roadrunner]

There is one major functional deffeciency in most Ford dashboards, especially the 500, and that is the positioning of the Navigation display. Now that most Ford vehicles are being equiped with the technology, everything will have to go back to the drawing board to bring it up to code for the hardware.

 

True - they stuck the navigation system in a odd location in the 500. The 500 without the nav system looks better inside.

 

The same radio thing in all the Ford's drives me nuts too. To top it off the radio they use is that ugly square generic looking thing, it has no style. Fuction without form.

 

By the way Edstock that's a beautiful car.

 

Agree on both.

[b2c2t1]

The same radio thing in all the Ford's drives me nuts too. To top it off the radio they use is that ugly square generic looking thing, it has no style. Fuction without form.

 

By the way Edstock that's a beautiful car.

 

 

You know something else besides the radio is carried thru several models IMHO. It's the gauges. Next time look closely at the 500, the Fusion, and the Escape and their Mercury cousins as well as the Zeph, and see if the gauges are all the same. No, the faces, the needles and locations are different but behind those pretty faces lie the same gauges. They appear to have the same diameters and the numbers in the same places.

 

You can just about hear a bean counter say the customer will never know the difference. They probably got a price cut by ordering so many of the same gauges. IMHO.

 

 

Edstock, that is some nice looking Detroit iron.

[bri719]

what the heck is a Mazda 2, and why is there a 1st-gen Toyota minivan pictured in the original post??

 

:shrug:

[mr.bob]

You know something else besides the radio is carried thru several models IMHO. It's the gauges. Next time look closely at the 500, the Fusion, and the Escape and their Mercury cousins as well as the Zeph, and see if the gauges are all the same. No, the faces, the needles and locations are different but behind those pretty faces lie the same gauges. They appear to have the same diameters and the numbers in the same places.

 

You can just about hear a bean counter say the customer will never know the difference. They probably got a price cut by ordering so many of the same gauges. IMHO.

Edstock, that is some nice looking Detroit iron.

Now that you mention it, the gauge faces are all the same, I wonder if it has ever dawned on the people in Dearborn to ask why is it the Germans can sell every BMW at or near list price worldwide with the highest priced labor on the planet, perhaps they are too stupid to realize its the product and not the labor that is at the bottom of all our problems.

[RichardJensen]

You can just about hear a bean counter say the customer will never know the difference.

This is not just a cost control issue, this is a quality issue.

 

Note that Ford also has the same power window controls, the same door latches, and the same engines and transmissions.

 

I mean, let's think twice about this. Your Fusion has the same engine in it as the Mazda6 and Five Hundred. So if the IP guts are the same, we have a problem?

 

Should we have different EVERYTHING for EVERY car?

 

Should we have custom light switch assemblies for each car line?

 

Why not totally different stereo heads and HVAC heads?

 

Why not stop sharing architectures all together?

 

Here's a thought.

 

Let's start from scratch with every single car. Let's not even have the same tires on two different cars.

 

Sorry bud, I'm just not buying the "Ford is sharing instrument panel wiring, they're going to heck in a handbasket" line of reasoning.

 

look at BMW (which the previous poster cited as an example of, apparently, how to differentiate IPs).

Which one is most different?

 

The BMW X5, which is the oldest of the BMWs posted. Why is it different? Because it uses the PREVIOUS iteration of the BMW IP.

I wonder if it has ever dawned on the people in Dearborn to ask why is it the Germans can sell every BMW at or near list price worldwide with the highest priced labor on the planet

I wonder if it has ever occurred to the rejectionists on this board, that not every Ford decision deserves to be condemned.

[Hemiman]

This is not just a cost control issue, this is a quality issue.

 

Note that Ford also has the same power window controls, the same door latches, and the same engines and transmissions.

 

I mean, let's think twice about this. Your Fusion has the same engine in it as the Mazda6 and Five Hundred. So if the IP guts are the same, we have a problem?

 

Should we have different EVERYTHING for EVERY car?

 

Should we have custom light switch assemblies for each car line?

 

Why not totally different stereo heads and HVAC heads?

 

Why not stop sharing architectures all together?

 

Here's a thought.

 

Let's start from scratch with every single car. Let's not even have the same tires on two different cars.

 

Sorry bud, I'm just not buying the "Ford is sharing instrument panel wiring, they're going to heck in a handbasket" line of reasoning.

 

look at BMW (which the previous poster cited as an example of, apparently, how to differentiate IPs).

Which one is most different?

 

The BMW X5, which is the oldest of the BMWs posted. Why is it different? Because it uses the PREVIOUS iteration of the BMW IP.

 

I wonder if it has ever occurred to the rejectionists on this board, that not every Ford decision deserves to be condemned.

 

Well said Rich.

 

I was going to add comments but it would would have been reduntant.

[79FairmontWagon]

I think it would be more appropriate to compare them to something like a Camry or Accord. Their interior designs have a wider variety of textures, colors, and trim. The 500 dash is very linear, hard, and slab-like. The same is true of the door trim. The design seems to contribute to its apparent cheapness; it looks built for rigidity instead of comfort and ergonomics.

 

If the dash were not built to be rigid, would you compain when it shook/

[Guest Sixcav]

This is not just a cost control issue, this is a quality issue.

 

Note that Ford also has the same power window controls, the same door latches, and the same engines and transmissions.

 

I mean, let's think twice about this. Your Fusion has the same engine in it as the Mazda6 and Five Hundred. So if the IP guts are the same, we have a problem?

 

Should we have different EVERYTHING for EVERY car?

 

Should we have custom light switch assemblies for each car line?

 

Why not totally different stereo heads and HVAC heads?

 

Why not stop sharing architectures all together?

 

Here's a thought.

 

Let's start from scratch with every single car. Let's not even have the same tires on two different cars.

 

Sorry bud, I'm just not buying the "Ford is sharing instrument panel wiring, they're going to heck in a handbasket" line of reasoning.

 

look at BMW (which the previous poster cited as an example of, apparently, how to differentiate IPs).

 

 

Taadaaaa, right on que, Captain Excuse man chimes in to defend his hero Ford. To sum it all up he's bascially saying "Yes, Ford uses the same crappy ass generic looking junk in all of their interiors so deal with it." Doesn't that make all you guys who spent 30 something grand on an Explorer or Expidition just feel great to know that the guy who bought the crappy 15 grand Focus got just as good as you with respect to materials and such. Nooooo, these cars aren't overpriced. LMAO, yeah right.

[Roadrunner]

You know something else besides the radio is carried thru several models IMHO. It's the gauges. Next time look closely at the 500, the Fusion, and the Escape and their Mercury cousins as well as the Zeph, and see if the gauges are all the same. No, the faces, the needles and locations are different but behind those pretty faces lie the same gauges. They appear to have the same diameters and the numbers in the same places.

 

The consumer would notice the radio much quicker than the tach

 

Two reasons:

1) The consumer is a lot less likely to be comparing a Fusion to a 500 than she/he would be comparing a Malibu, Camry, etc to the Ford of their choice. Nonetheless, they would say, "this is the Ford package" and not think as much to the tach. However, the radio sticks out badly.

2) The tachs in, say, the Fusion versus the 500 Limited are different enough that they don't look like they are from the same exact parts bin.

[kyle]

Taadaaaa, right on que, Captain Excuse man chimes in to defend his hero Ford. To sum it all up he's bascially saying "Yes, Ford uses the same crappy ass generic looking junk in all of their interiors so deal with it." Doesn't that make all you guys who spent 30 something grand on an Explorer or Expidition just feel great to know that the guy who bought the crappy 15 grand Focus got just as good as you with respect to materials and such. Nooooo, these cars aren't overpriced. LMAO, yeah right.

 

 

I agree 100%.....I mean call a spade a spade. Although I agree with RJ the majority of times....this is clearly not one of them.

 

When ford could not launch a vehicle without 6 recalls they got scared shitless. So anything that could stay the same, stayed the same. They also decided to standardize all of their ip's and if you don't think that is ridiculous your crazy.

 

The only difference in a zephyr and fusion center stack is....well nothing to me. Then look over to the f150-same radio, same hvac control....let's go look at the 500...., the mustang-same here...and now we have the edge launching with the same setup....talk about a dead end job-can you imagine the guy whose supposed to be working in the interior trim handling this...i think he must be on a 5 year vacation.

 

It just reeks of lack of imagination and cheapness......and the radio's are not even that good!

 

Come on RJ-grow some balls and call ford out on this one.....and stop belittling everyone on this board who disagrees with you.....I follow this site as I am sure all of us do (except lemon..but that is another topic all together)because we love ford motor company and just think they can do better......come on RJ you can do it....just this once:)))

[Guest Sixcav]

Oh he's not going to answer you kyle. In my experience if Richie gets presented with the truth about his precious Ford Motor and it's not in a positive light he just pretends he never saw your post and won't answer you. Now if we had pointed out one of the good things that Ford does he'd be all over it adding his two cents. Hence Richie has zero objectivity because he refuses to admit the bad while hes touting the good.

[kyle]

Just like the president?

[06StangAwesomecar]

Oh he's not going to answer you kyle. In my experience if Richie gets presented with the truth about his precious Ford Motor and it's not in a positive light he just pretends he never saw your post and won't answer you. Now if we had pointed out one of the good things that Ford does he'd be all over it adding his two cents. Hence Richie has zero objectivity because he refuses to admit the bad while hes touting the good.

Actually I am getting pretty tired of all the non-ford- import lovers coming on here and ripping on Ford all the time, thinking they could do a better job, while they are going to there minimum wage jobs. Like Honda/Toyoda has such a exciting lineup, Ford has made mistakes there is no question, but they have come a long way. And like I have posted in the past the bigger Toyoda gets the more issues they will have and guess what I was right on the money, who has the most recalls of 06???? TOYODA.

I am going to start a Bash Honda/Toyoda/ Kia thread, and put all the juicy things in the last couple of yrs that the wonderful media hated to talk about. And when it is brought up in here the lovers are no where around.

 

OBJECTIVITY,, LMAO.

[Guest Sixcav]

06Stang, just yesterday on this very forum I encouraged someone to buy a Ford Sport Trac over a Nissan Frontier because I believe it was the better choice. Now if that equals Ford bashing to you I'd hate to see what you think blowing the Ford sunshine up my ass is. I bought an 06 Mustang GT myself, out of sheer spite I guess. lol If you want to bash Toyota and Honda, buddy be my guest. If you post true facts about them I'll help you bash the shit out of them. Here I'll even help you get started with some of my own material. Toyota is way overpriced for what you get in a car by and large. They make good reliable cars but I think a lot of their stuff is just flat out overpriced. I think releasing this new FJ at a time when SUV sales are declinning and then putting a motor in it that requires premium fuel was just not a good idea. There you go buddy now run with it. When Toyota and Honda do something silly or stupid I say so and like it or not when Ford does the same I'm going to say so then too. If that gets you all upset then throw on a fresh pair because it's going to be a rough ride.

[kyle]

Actually I am getting pretty tired of all the non-ford- import lovers coming on here and ripping on Ford all the time, thinking they could do a better job, while they are going to there minimum wage jobs. Like Honda/Toyoda has such a exciting lineup, Ford has made mistakes there is no question, but they have come a long way. And like I have posted in the past the bigger Toyoda gets the more issues they will have and guess what I was right on the money, who has the most recalls of 06???? TOYODA.

I am going to start a Bash Honda/Toyoda/ Kia thread, and put all the juicy things in the last couple of yrs that the wonderful media hated to talk about. And when it is brought up in here the lovers are no where around.

 

OBJECTIVITY,, LMAO.

 

 

Let's see....the topic is "worst ford cars" and we give our opinion and you have a problem with this....wtf? I could care less about toyota or honda...I don't follow their website but I do follow Ford's because I really want the company to WIN! And like I have said before-I believe everyone on this site (in lieu of otis, lemon) all want the same.

 

Some of you guys sound like children....the best selling, the biggest, the most recalls....who gives a shit. I could care less if i was buying a vehicle because it was the number one selling truck in the world...I want to know that it is the best vehicle for my needs. Do you think they have this discussion over at BMW? Lexus? MB? I think Ford builds some exceptional vehicles....but most of them are not sold here in the States. I love their trucks and I think Jaguar is right around the corner from turning things around. Range Rover is doing a great job, Volvo needs some new product but it is coming....and Mazda has some of the best vehicles in the world....so don't give us shit because we think Ford can do better.

 

"Yes Mr. Ford, we have got rid off all the naysayer's at the company...you will be glad to know that we all think that you are terrific, by the way...we just lost another point of market share and $5 billion dollars but that is not so bad, we could of lost 2 points and $10billion....golly, gee, aren't we great"

 

 

I don't want to hear anyone question my passion for Ford or my patrioism, but god damn it, sometimes the truth just SUCKS!

[RichardJensen]

They also decided to standardize all of their ip's and if you don't think that is ridiculous your crazy.

Buddy, I am a huge fan of parts sharing, and it is something that Ford is waaaaaaaaaaaay behind the curve on. They are certainly not pioneering this practice, they are, rather, very late adopters of it.

 

Take your pick: Ford shares IPs across the full range (a la Audi, BMW, and MB), or they never change them, a la Toyota and Honda.

 

And, if you're willing to trade a bit of 'style' (as though having lots of different IPs somehow makes each vehicle more stylish), for a certain amount of reliability, well, I guess you can get in line with all the other people out there that think Detroit's products are just fine the way they are.

 

Most people a) won't notice, but b) would care if they had the kind of electrical gremlins that have been known to plague Ford interior switchgear and lighting in the past.

 

As to the HVAC and stereo controls, I say you have to run before you can walk. Ford was using so many different head units five years ago, that getting the whole lineup on one standard configuration is a reasonable first step, before you differentiate the face plates of those units.

 

For instance, Ford was--as recently as 2002--installing both single and double DIN head units, and is still installing headunits that are little more than remote controls for a stereo and amp housed in the trunk (Taurus).

 

Is the current HVAC and stereo setup boring?

 

Yes.

 

Is it the worst possible practice Ford could be engaged in at this time? No.

 

Better to standardize the guts and then play games with the faces, than to continue the practice, in the past, of just using whatever, and having it be boring, unreliable, and inconsistent.

 

----

 

To read some of these comments, you'd think that Ford was dropping all pretence at differentiating vehicles. Or that the HVAC, stereo controls, and IPs in past Fords, Mercurys, and Lincolns were all that spectacular. They weren't. Boring and the same is better than boring and different. And face it, that's all they were.

Edited October 3, 2006 by RichardJensen

[kyle]

Outside of a steering wheel Richard those cars are not rometely the same! Are they similar...hell yah!

 

I don't disagree with you on the need to standardize but for the last 5 years I have been hearing that ford is going to use common items across the board but those are the one's you do not touch or see....and they have 100% failed in that objective.

 

The only thing I see Toyota sharing are their window switches for the past 10 years.....I guess they are pretty good because they are in the LS400 to the Corolla...

 

I don't agree with you that it is a quality issue.....think it is much more cost driven and that management has not totally bought into the belief that "product is king." I will put an * here because I think they do have some great stuff in the "pipeline." I think with their current management they are fully aware of the consequences if they don't get it right this time. No more $25 billion in the bank.

 

And while we have this conversation......Mazda puts out a hell of a vehicle with a hell of an interior....while the mazda 3 and mazda 6 ip's are similar they are nothing more than that...to me that is the benchmark.