The worsed CURRENT Ford Motor Company Product

[RichardJensen]

And while we have this conversation......Mazda puts out a hell of a vehicle with a hell of an interior....while the mazda 3 and mazda 6 ip's are similar they are nothing more than that...to me that is the benchmark.

 

Is this okay?

 

or is this not okay?

 

The Mazda6 uses the previous Mazda IP unit, and that IP will not be carried over into the new 6. Whereas, the 3, 5, and CX-7 all use the same IP layout--although the 5 uses a differently geared tach and speedo, and a slightly relocated PRNDL.

 

As to the Camry: Slight readjustment of the Tach is about all that's been done to that IP in 12 years, along with the addition of an info display on the speedo. You can bet Toyota changes no more on the Camry than they absolutely have to.

Edited October 3, 2006 by RichardJensen

[kyle]

come on richard......if you are comparing the mazda's ip's with ford's and saying they are both doing the same thing you are more blinded that I thought....and regarding toyota we are just saying the same thing, although if you look across the board from them you do not see identical setups-

I can sit in my bmw-5 series-98 and it feels vaguely the same as my 87 5 series-they look and feel similar but that is it....switchgear is improved, etc.

 

maybe we can "agree:)))" at least and saywhile their is nothing fundamentally wrong with fod's current interior layout it would be nice to see some unique designs-ie-different headunits, hvac, lighting (why all green?), shifters, cupholders, trim pieces, door panel switchgear, etc. Agree? For mankind please!

[RichardJensen]

come on richard......if you are comparing the mazda's ip's with ford's and saying they are both doing the same thing you are more blinded that I thought.

Huh?

 

How much difference is there between the $14k 3 and $25k CX-7 (top and bottom IPs respectively)?

 

As far as styles and colors go... I'd like to see Ford make the MyColor available on more vehicles. Why? Beacuse I like green. It's easy on the eyes, and if you don't like it you should be able to change it.

 

Further, I want Ford to continue to put their best efforts into ease of use, in HVAC and stereo controls.

 

Compared with where Ford was with the cramped keys, missing knobs, and hidden functions on the single DIN units, to the 'button for everything' double DINs, the current boring head unit is a masterwork of usability.

 

A decided first step, that should not be overlooked, as Ford plays games with the look of the unit.

 

You have to get basic function right before you can apply stylish looks.

 

This does not necessarily mean boring in appearance, as can be seen on the Jag XK which has an easy to use interface for the stereo, nav, and HVAC systems.

 

I will only go so far as to say Ford should have different materials on door switchgear plates, and different shapes for the door handle. Apart from that, having difference for the sake of providing novelty to jaded connoisseurs such as ourselves, just doesn't make sense.

Edited October 3, 2006 by RichardJensen

[kyle]

well I respectively disagree richard....and I will say this is one of the reason's why ford continues to fail in the market place....they just don't get it. And if your position is so right all the time I am trying to figure out why ford continues to lose market share all the while giving away their vehicles.

 

And please someone else jump in here and tell me that while the ip's on the mazda's are similar they are hardly the SAME. Big difference to me.

And besides it has been 4 model years with the current center stack.....across the board...every vehicle launched in the US has the same one....a long time in this industry...and you are in the software industry where things change in 90 day incruments.

 

Let me put it another way....I happen to like petite blond woman but I can tell you that every 5' blond female that I see, how can I say it.has their own unique characteristics-but they are certainly not the same. Oh maybe that is for another forumn

[Edstock]

"I happen to like petite blond woman"

 

Me too.

 

And to think that their center stack hasn't been changed in a couple of hundred thousand years. Works for me, though.

[kyle]

well I am out of here for tonight....off to my petite blond wife!

[RichardJensen]

I will say this is one of the reason's why ford continues to fail in the market place.

You cannot create any kind of connection between declining sales and shared center stacks.

 

The Fusion and Mustang use shared head units, and yet................

 

The reason why Ford continues to lose sales is beacuse their lineup, from front to back, is not evenly competitive. Not something as simple and easy to fix as head units.

 

Nor, do I believe it fit to extrapolate from a shared head unit, behavior such as leaving the Ranger alone for over a decade.

 

And yes, I work in the software industry, and it sickens me that we have this perception that change happens quickly, and yet usability seldom goes anywhere, except from bad to worse, and for all the perception of rapid change, real systemic change is always slow, and with major players in the industry, almost always overdue when it arrives (Windows?).

 

The software industry creates buzz and churn, yet little in the way of innovation ever really turns up. Even less that can be used to simplify the work that human beings do.

[Edgey]

And please someone else jump in here and tell me that while the ip's on the mazda's are similar they are hardly the SAME.

 

Well, they are round....but beyond that...neither of them look the same beyond their configuration.

 

I would say that Ford has nothing to brag about when it comes to IP design, but at least they have some nice variations, which is more than I've come to expect from Ford's relentless parts consolidating. I'm amazed the Explorer got away with a totally unique instrument panel.

 

The software industry creates buzz and churn, yet little in the way of innovation ever really turns up. Even less that can be used to simplify the work that human beings do.

 

The real progress is made in Open Source, however there is no good example of it being adopted beyond a certain user base.

[RichardJensen]

The real progress is made in Open Source, however there is no good example of it being adopted beyond a certain user base.

Certainly not in interface design.

 

Our servers run Linux. I don't want them on Windows--in no small part because I don't want to administer them with a Windows machine. I don't want to be locked into Microsoft's tiny and expensive version of the world at large. Not to mention security issues. Linux can be scaled down in ways that are quite difficult with Windows.

 

But it has been my experience that Open source software has subpar usability.

 

Ultimately, people use computers, and processor speed and efficient code is a poor substitute for good design.

 

How many people do you know like to use their computers? How many enjoy using whatever industry specific tool your industry employs?

[Edgey]

Usability is a reletive thing in open source, but most of the community has recognized that it's the biggest barrier to wider acceptance so you see large groups working entirely on usability design. OSX is probably a good example of innovative usability...but I think you mentioned that elsewhere. And of course, it's a product of Open Source.

[RichardJensen]

you see large groups working entirely on usability design.

True, but the work's of relatively uneven quality, and the efforts of some of the largest groups (including those working on Ubuntu and Suse) leave much to be desired, in that the fundamental approach to the question of usability is wrong.

 

What I've seen, as a trend by no means universal, but certainly from developers at Novell (on the SuSE project) and at Ubuntu, is a desire to solicit user feedback to improve existing interfaces.

 

What would be far better would be to develop NEW interfaces, and solicit feedback on them.

 

For instance Novell is having a field day promoting their new "desktop" Linux.

 

Much is made of a 'more intuitive' interface.

 

Sadly, it looks just like Windows XP, only LESS intuitive, in that it isn't just like Windows XP.

 

This is what I mean: Rather than develop a new feature (such as the OS X 'dock'), and evaluate its usability, SuSE developers were satisfied making 'improvements' to a rather clumsy interface (XP).

 

Of the Linux user interfaces, I am most impressed with xFCE, but even it suffers from pointless 'prettification' of icons, and a lack of intuitive icon design (as though adding some 3D effects in GIMP was the same as coming up with an icon that actually causes the user to think of the program or service represented). The rest of the Linux user interfaces all suffer from Windows envy.

 

To apply this to the automotive world (and the topic at hand), what is happening is that the work coming from Ubuntu developers and SuSE developers is indicative of what would happen if Ford took the Taurus to focus group settings, and asked consumers for ways to improve it. You would get incremental improvement, but not the kind of innovations that come from talented engineers and designers working with relative freedom.

Edited October 4, 2006 by RichardJensen

[kyle]

make no mistake the mustang and fusion are selling because of their exterior design....we can go around and around on this but the point I am making is ford does not do enough to differentiate their products and they are paying the consequences of it.

[RichardJensen]

ford does not do enough to differentiate their products and they are paying the consequences of it.

Ford's sales are down this year, due to declining SUV and truck volume, not shared center stack items.

[kyle]

I am not disputing that....but with redesigns like the explorer where they basically changed everything and nothing at all. yes mr. customer we put $500 million into this new subframe, etc. comared to toyota (who carries over a lot of stuff underneath) getting their vehicles reskinned-people want fresh looking vehicles even if they get 15mpg.

 

they have so many issues right now that the only problem is doing nothing at all

[RichardJensen]

I am not disputing that....but with redesigns like the explorer where they basically changed everything and nothing at all. yes mr. customer we put $500 million into this new subframe, etc. comared to toyota (who carries over a lot of stuff underneath) getting their vehicles reskinned-people want fresh looking vehicles even if they get 15mpg.

 

they have so many issues right now that the only problem is doing nothing at all

We will have to look at full year Explorer sales, and factor in the extra couple months of Sport Trac availability last year. And look at that performance vs. the industry at large.

 

You can't compare year over year numbers on the Explorer, because until July/August, Ford didn't have Sport Trac vehicles available in any numbers. The local Ford dealership only had one or two until mid-July, vs 20 Explorers. Now, comparing Explorer numbers vs. last year is equally deceptive, as last year at this time there were no Sport Tracs in stock.

[kyle]

I don't dispute that Richard but think we would BOTH agree that it would be selling at a higher turn rate if their redesigns were more noticeable....that's all....and I think it will come back to haunt them with the expedition update....regarding the navigator I cannot even offer a prediction-definitely would not want that job!

[RichardJensen]

I don't dispute that Richard but think we would BOTH agree that it would be selling at a higher turn rate if their redesigns were more noticeable....that's all....and I think it will come back to haunt them with the expedition update....regarding the navigator I cannot even offer a prediction-definitely would not want that job!

I don't entirely agree with that. It's a 'what-if' game that can't be played out well. Ditto the Expy.

 

I think the restyled front of the Explorer is an abomination--it does not fit any Ford design language (cars OR trucks), and it looks crappy all by itself as well. The base XLT model looks okay, and the IronMan edition looks okay. But the rest are just awful.

 

The main point I have, in these discussions about the Explorer update (and the Expy update), is that it's not a foregone conclusions that a more significant restyle would result in higher sales. It's not that I'm flat out denying that a new look would sell more, I'm saying that it can't be stated with certainty. In other words, it's not wise to be dogmatic about it.

[06StangAwesomecar]

Let's see....the topic is "worst ford cars" and we give our opinion and you have a problem with this....wtf? I could care less about toyota or honda...I don't follow their website but I do follow Ford's because I really want the company to WIN! And like I have said before-I believe everyone on this site (in lieu of otis, lemon) all want the same.

 

Some of you guys sound like children....the best selling, the biggest, the most recalls....who gives a shit. I could care less if i was buying a vehicle because it was the number one selling truck in the world...I want to know that it is the best vehicle for my needs. Do you think they have this discussion over at BMW? Lexus? MB? I think Ford builds some exceptional vehicles....but most of them are not sold here in the States. I love their trucks and I think Jaguar is right around the corner from turning things around. Range Rover is doing a great job, Volvo needs some new product but it is coming....and Mazda has some of the best vehicles in the world....so don't give us shit because we think Ford can do better.

 

"Yes Mr. Ford, we have got rid off all the naysayer's at the company...you will be glad to know that we all think that you are terrific, by the way...we just lost another point of market share and $5 billion dollars but that is not so bad, we could of lost 2 points and $10billion....golly, gee, aren't we great"

I don't want to hear anyone question my passion for Ford or my patrioism, but god damn it, sometimes the truth just SUCKS!

 

 

No its constent negativity, negativity, negativity, negativity. And its bullshit, the only positive thing on this whole site is the people who try to defend the Ford/Gm. And the first thing out of ALOT of post and peoples mouths are oh recalls. I wonder when there will be positive articles. I dont care what the topic is, WORSED ford cars, just more bullshit, and negativity. More recliner quarterbacks spouting what they would do, which is nothing.

[kyle]

well there is link for "best cars from Ford" for the feel good people.

 

When there is not a lot of good things going on then people and rightly so talk about the negative things....if ford was kicking ass and taking names then i think the atmosphere of this board would be totally different.....

 

Richard....I can't produce a probability chart on what if scenario's but you can be assured that ford now realizes that their minor reskinning have hurt them and that is why I am at least optimistic that the next time these vehicles come around for updating someone will have some balls....

[Noah Harbinger]

When ford could not launch a vehicle without 6 recalls they got scared shitless. So anything that could stay the same, stayed the same. They also decided to standardize all of their ip's and if you don't think that is ridiculous your crazy.

 

I remember seeing an article about how brilliant Toyota was for standardizing every element of their interiors they could get away with. Of course when Ford does it, it's stupid and will lead to their immediate demise.

 

People who are buying a big-ass SUV because of the looks of the instrument panel are really really barking up the wrong tree. As long as it looks good, who cares if the Focus has it as well?

[Noah Harbinger]

The main point I have, in these discussions about the Explorer update (and the Expy update), is that it's not a foregone conclusions that a more significant restyle would result in higher sales. It's not that I'm flat out denying that a new look would sell more, I'm saying that it can't be stated with certainty. In other words, it's not wise to be dogmatic about it.

 

Can anybody name an update where the ONLY significant updates were to the sheetmetal -- no frame upgrades, no interior styling improvements or accessory improvements? All style, no substance? I can't think of any myself but I don't have the automotive history everyone else here has.

 

If so, it would be interesting to look at the sales figure of that vehicle before/after the update, and a useful anecdote for when these "discussions" arise time and time again.

[Noah Harbinger]

Usability is a reletive thing in open source, but most of the community has recognized that it's the biggest barrier to wider acceptance so you see large groups working entirely on usability design. OSX is probably a good example of innovative usability...but I think you mentioned that elsewhere. And of course, it's a product of Open Source.

 

The interface on OS-X is completely proprietary, and is not derived in any way from any Open Source developers or software. It's a pound of OS-9 UI with an ounce of NeXT-STEP UI, frosted over an open-source cake that nobody sees.

 

Mmmmm, cake!

[kyle]

I remember seeing an article about how brilliant Toyota was for standardizing every element of their interiors they could get away with. Of course when Ford does it, it's stupid and will lead to their immediate demise.

 

People who are buying a big-ass SUV because of the looks of the instrument panel are really really barking up the wrong tree. As long as it looks good, who cares if the Focus has it as well?

 

 

Noah I would care if I just spent $50k on a expedition limited that shared the center stack with a $12k focus....now if I was the guy who spent $12k on a focus I would be thrilled that the $50k expy had the same setup.....people want exclustivity-good, bad or wrong-that is the way the world is.

 

Most other manufacturer's have a lot more differentiation in their vehicles-even the camry vs. the solara has a unique setup.

 

I never said immediate demise....but what they have done the past 5 years has not worked well-like it or not.

[MTP WORKER]

Noah I would care if I just spent $50k on a expedition limited that shared the center stack with a $12k focus....now if I was the guy who spent $12k on a focus I would be thrilled that the $50k expy had the same setup.....people want exclustivity-good, bad or wrong-that is the way the world is.

 

Most other manufacturer's have a lot more differentiation in their vehicles-even the camry vs. the solara has a unique setup.

 

I never said immediate demise....but what they have done the past 5 years has not worked well-like it or not.

People are not that exclusive. The world is filled with followers. What ever is perceived to be popular today. People are sheeple. Adolescent people would probally care about the common gauges, but they probally could not afford the Expedition anyways. All this nitpicking reminds me of the guy in the Shallow Hal movie who turned down a date with a hot women just because she had something wrong with her toe. LOL

[Roadrunner]

Noah I would care if I just spent $50k on a expedition limited that shared the center stack with a $12k focus....now if I was the guy who spent $12k on a focus I would be thrilled that the $50k expy had the same setup.....people want exclustivity-good, bad or wrong-that is the way the world is.

 

Probably the guy with penis envy would be much more bothered than the guy who can't afford a midsize car.

 

(it's been a crappy morning)