Blue Oval Staff Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Click here for the article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 "Decades of market share loss" Snort. Ford's market share in 1998 was what it was in 1960. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovaltine Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) "Decades of market share loss" Snort. Ford's market share in 1998 was what it was in 1960. According to this AI article from 1998: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m301...178/ai_20499965 , Ford's total market share WAS indeed less in the '80's and '90s than it was in the 1970's. That's over 20 years (2x10, meaning plural), which technically qualifies as 'decades' the last time I checked. Though the linked 1998 article praises Ford on many fronts, the section that knocks them down the most is...... are you ready?..... MARKET SHARE! Market Share: Despite its strong financial performance, Ford lost share in the U.S. market. From a publicity standpoint, it did worse than that. After a five-year stint at the top, the Taurus relinquished its title as the "Best Selling Car in America" to the Toyota Camry. In fact, the Honda Accord also surpassed the Taurus. Ford should be concerned that only six of its nameplates sold better than the year before, meaning 18 of its product lines saw their sales drop. Market share is a good long-term indicator of a company's performance. Even though it only lost 0.6 points of market share, we grade hard in this category, and the fact that Ford lost share in a solid market earned it a D. The biggest hoot of all in this article is this section at the very beginning: "There almost aren't enough superlatives to describe Ford's Report Card performance. The company earned an overall A by making significant improvements in all but one category. Not only is this a vindication of Ford 2000, the corporate reorganization launched two years ago, it speak volumes for the managerial ability of Jac Nasser, president of Ford's Automotive Operations. Rarely has a manager taken the reins of a company and made such a positive impact in so short a time." -Ovaltine FORD MOTOR CORP. Category 1973 1988 1992 1993 1994 Market Share 29.8% 23.7% 24.6% 25.6% 25.3% Edited October 6, 2006 by Ovaltine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) So, Ford's market share declines from '73 to '88, than rises from '88 to '98. That does indeed mean that Ford has had 'decades' of market share loss. They had a decade of loss, a decade or so of gains, and then another decade of loss: There's your 'decades' if you want to get persnickety--of course, I'm pretty sure the author meant consecutive decades. They once had like 90% of the U.S. market, back in the late teens. "decades" of market share have occurred ever since. The article implies that Ford's market share has been steadily declining for decades, an assumption flat contradicted by reality, and which serves--furthermore--to explain why Ford's retiree burden is so much smaller than GM's. GM's market share has fallen pretty consistently for about the last 25 years. It is sloppy negligent reporting. The rehash of tired factoids that sound correct, without concern as to accuracy. Edited October 6, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ford was on a roll before Nasser then Bill jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) Ford was on a roll before Nasser then Bill jr. No they weren't. They fundamentally ignored the lessons they should've learned from the first Taurus. It has only been in very very recent years that Ford has implemented, companey wide, the practices that were developed on the Taurus. For instance, involvement of plant management and assembly team leaders, in mitigating quality issues that crop up once assembly has started, as well as holding a model for extensive test before launch, were both part of the Taurus program, and no other Ford program after that until Padilla initiated measures that have yielded dramatic results with the Focus, Mustang, CD3s, D3s, and Explorer/Mountaineer. Edited October 6, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 On the way down to 11% you watch after all the Taurui are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 On the way down to 11% you watch after all the Taurui are done. Yeah, because that Taurus sure drive a lot of other business into the Ford showroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 On the way down to 11% you watch after all the Taurui are done. How can you say that the Taurs has 5-8% of the WHOLE US MARKET??? So, one car will make Ford lose that much? As said by teachers in school, 'show your work'. Some just want Ford to keep doing the "dump cars into rentals" forever and a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Yeah, because that Taurus sure drive a lot of other business into the Ford showroom. Of course the Taurus doesn't drive showroom traffic, it just artificially inflates the US Market Share Take a good hard look at the numbers for the taurus 147,000 + this year ALONE. Not to mention 161,000 + last year. That's a lot of dough stopping that revenue stream. Don't quit your day job Richard, cause you're neither good at sarcasm or logic. How can you say that the Taurs has 5-8% of the WHOLE US MARKET??? So, one car will make Ford lose that much? As said by teachers in school, 'show your work'. Some just want Ford to keep doing the "dump cars into rentals" forever and a day. Oh I'm sorry, is 11% STILL too much? Read the title of the thread, then worry about "dump cars into rentals" holier than thou rant. This thread is about market share AND slower fleet sales, my geometry teacher who taught me how to do mathematical proofs taught me to "stay on topic" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 So the Taurus goes away, and Ford becomes smaller. Get over it. The Taurus was not capable of AWD configuration which made it a dead-end as NVH problems with 250+hp at the front wheels has made FWD builders like Volvo and Audi adopt AWD. It's over, it's done. Look to the future, if you can. Maybe the problem with some BON posters is not enough Sigma, which might lead to dementia. Maybe diet suplements? Suppositories? Perhaps they need 7 or 8 or maybe even more Sigma. Maybe they could offer Dan-levels for those "Black Belts"? That way, senior Black Belts, who can slide up-hill, will have some distinction from their junior members. How about full-contact kumite? There's nothing quite as satisfying as the feeling of a full-contact technique on a bean-counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 So the Taurus goes away, and Ford becomes smaller. Get over it. The Taurus was not capable of AWD configuration which made it a dead-end as NVH problems with 250+hp at the front wheels has made FWD builders like Volvo and Audi adopt AWD. It's over, it's done. Look to the future, if you can. Maybe the problem with some BON posters is not enough Sigma, which might lead to dementia. Maybe diet suplements? Suppositories? Perhaps they need 7 or 8 or maybe even more Sigma. Maybe they could offer Dan-levels for those "Black Belts"? That way, senior Black Belts, who can slide up-hill, will have some distinction from their junior members. How about full-contact kumite? There's nothing quite as satisfying as the feeling of a full-contact technique on a bean-counter. I don't care what is happening to the Taurus. I don't think I made myself clear, this topic was about lost Ford Market Share AND slowing fleet sales, I am posting ON-TOPIC, is that wrong? Did I stutter? ENGLISH mutha DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Wow, you sell alot less to rental fleets, and your marketshare goes down. Ummmmm........................ Well DUH !!!! Marketshare for the sake of marketshare (not profits) is stupid, and does nothing except make a few analysts happy (you know, the ones who don't care if your business is here tomorrow............. they just want massive profits (from stock value) today). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sixcav Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Of course, if the "factoids" aren't accurate according to what Richie decides is accurate, he feels like it's up to him to start questioning the journalistic abilities of whomever might not jive with his pro-Ford hooyah way of thinking. By the way Richie, when's the last time you published anything in a respected widely distributed automotive periodical? Oh yeah never, that's right. So gee, that makes you completely unqualified to decide what is "sloppy" and "negligent". I would submit that if Richie ever actually got a job writing for say Road and Track or Mototrend that he would summarily be "out of there" after his first couple of articles given the kind of one sided hypocritical trash he posts here. They would be calling him sloppy and negligent, and unemployed. And by the way, who the hell uses the word "persnickity" when talking to people? What are you 80? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Of course the Taurus doesn't drive showroom traffic, it just artificially inflates the US Market Share Take a good hard look at the numbers for the taurus 147,000 + this year ALONE. Not to mention 161,000 + last year. That's a lot of dough stopping that revenue stream. Don't quit your day job Richard, cause you're neither good at sarcasm or logic. Oh I'm sorry, is 11% STILL too much? Read the title of the thread, then worry about "dump cars into rentals" holier than thou rant. This thread is about market share AND slower fleet sales, my geometry teacher who taught me how to do mathematical proofs taught me to "stay on topic" U.S. Market: 17M vehicles. Taurus sales (2005): 161k units Just under 1% of the market. Ergo, cancelling the Taurus alone causes about a 1% drop in U.S. market share. And, when you lose money on every vehicle sold, the revenue stream, ultimately, is not flowing TO your company, it's flowing AWAY from it. Ford is keeping the Crown Vic because they make money on it. They are cancelling the Taurus because they do no make money on it. Is that "on topic" enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 U.S. Market: 17M vehicles. Taurus sales (2005): 161k units Just under 1% of the market. Ergo, cancelling the Taurus alone causes about a 1% drop in U.S. market share. And, when you lose money on every vehicle sold, the revenue stream, ultimately, is not flowing TO your company, it's flowing AWAY from it. Ford is keeping the Crown Vic because they make money on it. They are cancelling the Taurus because they do no make money on it. Is that "on topic" enough for you? And about a 1% loss in market share is the loss of one more assembly plant. So when they get down to 11% there will be another Way Forward plan and more plant closures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 And about a 1% loss in market share is the loss of one more assembly plant.So when they get down to 11% there will be another Way Forward plan and more plant closures. :blah: :blah: :blah: Where's Ford going to lose 510k more vehicle sales from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 "Did I stutter? ENGLISH mutha DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!?!?" Dude, lighten up. The importance of the past for Ford is that 1) it caused change; and 2) it's over. Squabbling over fleet sales of the old management regime and product line is not productive. The future is a smaller, quicker FoMoCo. If they get their product right, they will gain marketshare. Then we will have a quicker, not-so-small FoMoCo. With the up-coming MK S sedan (which you probably won't like) and the Edge/MK X crossovers, the first small steps are starting to happen to regain that marketshare in a new $3+ per gallon world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 "Did I stutter? ENGLISH mutha DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!?!?" Dude, lighten up. The importance of the past for Ford is that 1) it caused change; and 2) it's over. Squabbling over fleet sales of the old management regime and product line is not productive. The future is a smaller, quicker FoMoCo. If they get their product right, they will gain marketshare. Then we will have a quicker, not-so-small FoMoCo. With the up-coming MK S sedan (which you probably won't like) and the Edge/MK X crossovers, the first small steps are starting to happen to regain that marketshare in a new $3+ per gallon world. I dont' think you understand. I'll make this a pointed response 1) I don't care about the Taurus 2) I don't care about the Taurus 3) I think Ford should be even SMALLER than Mark Fields has planned 4) I think Ford should hit the "extreme" ends with small (B cars) and Huge Super Duty F-Series 5) I think they should merge with Nissan, and let Nissan's Engineers do the Product Development for them 6) I think the MKS sedan, with all its new "features" is a lame duck with crappy styling 7) I think the Edge is too big, and MKX is still a Badge Engineering job gone wrong. Different tail lights and grille don't cut it for me. Think 300 and Charger, they share the EXACT same platform, that's engineering done correctly 8) I think Trucks are still important, to that end, I think that we SHOULD build the Super Chief monster and bring back the Ranchero 9) Small IS Big, Reflex should be the ONLY car platform they produce, turn it into a "People Mover", Offroad beast, and a hot two seater, and voila, done 10) GPDS has got to go, it was created with TOO LARGE of a marketshare in mind. Brand DNA should take over here, with Nissan Product Development processes and 100% customer feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) :blah: :blah: :blah: Where's Ford going to lose 510k more vehicle sales from? Probably the same way they lost the first million. Ford performance reminds me of the old joke about the stock market. "Do you know what is the easiest way to make a small fortune in the stock market?" "Start with a large fortune." Edited October 7, 2006 by Bluecon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 5) I think they should merge with Nissan, and let Nissan's Engineers do the Product Development for them 9) Small IS Big, Reflex should be the ONLY car platform they produce, turn it into a "People Mover", Offroad beast, and a hot two seater, and voila, done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Yeah, I'm crazy, crazy enough to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Yeah, I'm crazy, crazy enough to work. If you say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb62 Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Ford is keeping the Crown Vic because they make money on it. They are cancelling the Taurus because they do no make money on it. You keep on repeating this yet it is completely wrong. The Taurus does indeed make money. The reason it is being deleted from the plan is that the decision to delete the veicle was made years ago. The replacement vehicles were just intended to make MORE money that the Taurus. Consider 1. The Taurus has all of its T&F written off. This is one big reason for the continued profitability. 2. The variable cost is kept in line by the old contracts for components. Aslo the manufacturing costs for legacy vehicles typically show high efficiency since the plant people are fully comfortable with the non-changing design. 3. All vehicles show saw-tooth profitability, low at introduction and higher over time. 4. The taurus platform is a legacy platform that no one wants to spend any money on. It's not that it can't make money but that other platforms effectively shared will make more. 5. Once the decision to delete the platform is made, there is little you can do given the timing for emissions CERT and other regulatory items to get an upgraded vehicle in time. The Taurus thus died years ago from an engineering and planning perspective. The reasons for the CV/GM/TC surviving are very different than why the Taurus is going and should not be compared. Some of the reasoning is political (re: Canadian Unions). But as a platform, it too will be gone at some point given the age of the vehicle and the majority of its customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evok Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 "Decades of market share loss" Snort. Ford's market share in 1998 was what it was in 1960. Well Fords US volume is now at 1980's level. But today the overall market is at 17 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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